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I envy the Flyers

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01-29-2007, 02:34 PM
  #1
dave4
 
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I envy the Flyers

They've lost so many games it has become clear to them what has to be done. The coach and GM are already gone, and they're thinking of trading one of their older assets to get younger. The team knows it can't stay on the same course and be successful, so they're moving on.

Unlike the Rangers, who also suck, but win just enough games to make you think we don't really need to change anything.

We have a general manager who has the worst won-loss record (196-258) of any Ranger GM in at least the last 40 years, and hasn't even been able to win ONE playoff game! Not one!!!

We're all led to believe by our trusty management that we've got lots of help coming from below, just continue to be patient until it gets here. Unless there is a big name available, of course, then forget the youth and go for it now. We can go for youth again next year. Until there is another veteran available.

And we follow a blueprint that has proven over the last ten years doesn't work.

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01-29-2007, 02:39 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
They've lost so many games it has become clear to them what has to be done. The coach and GM are already gone, and they're thinking of trading one of their older assets to get younger. The team knows it can't stay on the same course and be successful, so they're moving on.

Unlike the Rangers, who also suck, but win just enough games to make you think we don't really need to change anything.

We have a general manager who has the worst won-loss record (196-258) of any Ranger GM in at least the last 40 years, and hasn't even been able to win ONE playoff game! Not one!!!

We're all led to believe by our trusty management that we've got lots of help coming from below, just continue to be patient until it gets here. Unless there is a big name available, of course, then forget the youth and go for it now. We can go for youth again next year. Until there is another veteran available.

And we follow a blueprint that has proven over the last ten years doesn't work.
What are you talking about? They are gonna sign free agents like no tomorrow in the offseason.

Your being way to harsh on Sather's run as GM, he came here and the cupboard was BARE.

It doesn't come very often that you have the stars aligned with players like Jagr and Shanahan on your team, you need to take a risk to reep the reward.

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01-29-2007, 02:40 PM
  #3
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your right, its time we decide to all of the old underachieving vets for prospects and young kids, just like that team that did it in 2004....ohh wait that was us, nevermind.

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01-29-2007, 02:41 PM
  #4
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Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
What are you talking about? They are gonna sign free agents like no tomorrow in the offseason.

Your being way to harsh on Sather's run as GM, he came here and the cupboard was BARE.

It doesn't come very often that you have the stars aligned with players like Jagr and Shanahan on your team, you need to take a risk to reep the reward.
So we should dump the youth?

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01-29-2007, 02:43 PM
  #5
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Not sure I envy the Flyers...

If they make a couple trades, it still may take some time to get back to respectability. They've shown that they cannot win without Forsberg. Trading him helps the future, but who knows when the real future will start.

At this point, I think it would be a disappointment to see the Rangers dismantle. As tempting as it may be, this team has done this before and if it hadn't acquired guys like Jagr, Shanny, Nylander, Straka and others, it would be one of the worst teams in the league with not much light at the end of the near-term tunnel. In other words, it would be tough to watch.

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01-29-2007, 02:45 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
So we should dump the youth?
Nobody said dump the youth, if the Rangers make a deal for Foresberg it will not involve trading the core (Don Maloney)

Staal-Tyutin
Sanguinetti-Sauer
Baranka

Would I hesitate to trade Pock/Immonen/Jessiman/Dawes/Montoya in a deal for Forsberg, no.

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01-29-2007, 02:46 PM
  #7
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
If they make a couple trades, it still may take some time to get back to respectability. They've shown that they cannot win without Forsberg. Trading him helps the future, but who knows when the real future will start.

At this point, I think it would be a disappointment to see the Rangers dismantle. As tempting as it may be, this team has done this before and if it hadn't acquired guys like Jagr, Shanny, Nylander, Straka and others, it would be one of the worst teams in the league with not much light at the end of the near-term tunnel. In other words, it would be tough to watch.
Yeah, last year's complete surrender the last 15 games of the season was easy on the eyes too.

I'm not saying dump the vets or dump all the vets. Just do what Maloney said on the radio, and not sacrifice the future to be a little bit better in the present.

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01-29-2007, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
Nobody said dump the youth, if the Rangers make a deal for Foresberg it will not involve trading the core (Don Maloney)

Staal-Tyutin
Sanguinetti-Sauer
Baranka

Would I hesitate to trade Pock/Immonen/Jessiman/Dawes/Montoya in a deal for Forsberg, no.
You would include any of those players in a trade for a guy who will play 20 games here max, AND has current injury problems? And we lose in July regardless?

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01-29-2007, 02:48 PM
  #9
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Don't envy the Flyers, but it's hard to ignore Sathers 196-258 win/loss record, ouch.

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01-29-2007, 02:50 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by shoothepuck View Post
Don't envy the Flyers, but it's hard to ignore Sathers 196-258 win/loss record, ouch.
Places him behind Neil Smith, Phil Esposito, Craig Patrick, Fred Shero, Emile Francis, and I didn't feel like going back any further.

And worse, they haven't won ONE playoff game in his tenure. Everyone else did, and Espo was only here three years, Shero two.

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01-29-2007, 02:58 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
Places him behind Neil Smith, Phil Esposito, Craig Patrick, Fred Shero, Emile Francis, and I didn't feel like going back any further.

And worse, they haven't won ONE playoff game in his tenure. Everyone else did, and Espo was only here three years, Shero two.
Do you remember the state of the team when Sather got here? A team with no top young players, an extremely shallow prospect pool and no 1st round pick.

As bad as Sather has been at times, I think people forget what our team looked like in 2000...

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01-29-2007, 03:00 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
Nobody said dump the youth, if the Rangers make a deal for Foresberg it will not involve trading the core (Don Maloney)

Staal-Tyutin
Sanguinetti-Sauer
Baranka

Would I hesitate to trade Pock/Immonen/Jessiman/Dawes/Montoya in a deal for Forsberg, no.
Montoya beter not be in any deal for an aging star.....They should try and use him to pick up a solid and young PP QB

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01-29-2007, 03:02 PM
  #13
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Good god stop posting the same thing over and over.

Go outside and get some exercise instead of obsessing over this

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Old
01-29-2007, 03:02 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
They've lost so many games it has become clear to them what has to be done. The coach and GM are already gone, and they're thinking of trading one of their older assets to get younger. The team knows it can't stay on the same course and be successful, so they're moving on.

Unlike the Rangers, who also suck, but win just enough games to make you think we don't really need to change anything.

We have a general manager who has the worst won-loss record (196-258) of any Ranger GM in at least the last 40 years, and hasn't even been able to win ONE playoff game! Not one!!!

We're all led to believe by our trusty management that we've got lots of help coming from below, just continue to be patient until it gets here. Unless there is a big name available, of course, then forget the youth and go for it now. We can go for youth again next year. Until there is another veteran available.

And we follow a blueprint that has proven over the last ten years doesn't work.
Dave's a killer !

Dave's a mess.


Last edited by SingnBluesOnBroadway: 01-29-2007 at 03:24 PM.
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01-29-2007, 03:04 PM
  #15
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Now, Im not claiming to be an expert on the Flyer farm system, but at the beginning of the season Hockey's future ranked them THE WORST set of prospects in all of the nhl.

So you are envious of a team in dead last with a terrible set of prospects?

I mean I can understand all the frustration but lets not get crazy here.

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01-29-2007, 03:04 PM
  #16
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I've got to disagree with you Dave4, for one I hardly envy the Flyers. Sure they may know where they are going this season, but I perfer to envy a team who is going up not down. And while the Rangers have been inconsistant this season, they far from suck in my estimation. I think they are a few peices away from being a solid team, a cup contender more than likely not,but a team that can win a few playoff games and maybe even a series or two. You could argue that if the team bombs completly then they can attempt a serious rebuild with a top prospect, however IMO this team is to good to bomb that badly. Will they win the cup, again more than likely no, but they arent going to win the lottery either. You absolutly are entitled to your opinion, but i'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree.

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01-29-2007, 03:06 PM
  #17
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I don't think there are many people...

who would say that Sather deserved to have a job at the beginning of last season, and some thought he didn't deserve one to start this season. Unfortunately, he's here, for whatever reason, and we have to deal with it.


dave - couldn't agree more about the last two months of the season, but 18,200 strong at the arena cheered as the Rangers season ended, and that cheer was for them finally making the playoffs, so some people appreciated the effort.

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01-29-2007, 03:08 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Good god stop posting the same thing over and over.

Go outside and get some exercise instead of obsessing over this
chill dude, your forum police act is getting old. If you don't like what I'm saying don't read it.

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01-29-2007, 03:10 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
who would say that Sather deserved to have a job at the beginning of last season, and some thought he didn't deserve one to start this season. Unfortunately, he's here, for whatever reason, and we have to deal with it.


dave - couldn't agree more about the last two months of the season, but 18,200 strong at the arena cheered as the Rangers season ended, and that cheer was for them finally making the playoffs, so some people appreciated the effort.
If I was there I would have cheered too. But like Bill Parcells says, 'You are your record'. And Sather's record is abysmal. And the playoffs turned into an embarassment.

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01-29-2007, 03:15 PM
  #20
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What let them down? Same as in Rangers the GM lost an ability to understand the contemporary game. Similar steps are taken: Clarke promote himself to VP and new GM was put in place. In NY D. Maloney is a de-facto GM. I do not envy them. Although our goalie sucks this season, they are not gonna get anything close any time soon.

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01-29-2007, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Fireonk View Post
Now, Im not claiming to be an expert on the Flyer farm system, but at the beginning of the season Hockey's future ranked them THE WORST set of prospects in all of the nhl.

So you are envious of a team in dead last with a terrible set of prospects?

I mean I can understand all the frustration but lets not get crazy here.
Just wanted to clarify that if the Flyers didn't graduate 3 top prospects(Carter, Richards, Pitkanen) so quick they wouldve been in the top ten at least. Plus before the season they didn't know Nodl & Bartulis were gonna have breakout years, as well as having Giroux & Downie, both highly regarded players.

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01-29-2007, 03:24 PM
  #22
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What let them down? Same as in Rangers the GM lost an ability to understand the contemporary game. Similar steps are taken: Clarke promote himself to VP and new GM was put in place. In NY D. Maloney is a de-facto GM. I do not envy them. Although our goalie sucks this season, they are not gonna get anything close any time soon.
Don't you mean 'below average' goalie?

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01-29-2007, 03:25 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
They've lost so many games it has become clear to them what has to be done. The coach and GM are already gone, and they're thinking of trading one of their older assets to get younger. The team knows it can't stay on the same course and be successful, so they're moving on.

Unlike the Rangers, who also suck, but win just enough games to make you think we don't really need to change anything.

We have a general manager who has the worst won-loss record (196-258) of any Ranger GM in at least the last 40 years, and hasn't even been able to win ONE playoff game! Not one!!!

We're all led to believe by our trusty management that we've got lots of help coming from below, just continue to be patient until it gets here. Unless there is a big name available, of course, then forget the youth and go for it now. We can go for youth again next year. Until there is another veteran available.

And we follow a blueprint that has proven over the last ten years doesn't work.
I agree 100% with everything you said. If Forsberg was the missing piece to us being a legit Cup contending then I'd be ok with us parting with "some" youth to get him, but I really don't see us being legitimate cup contenders unless we somehow magically bring in a top D pairing.

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01-29-2007, 03:26 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Just wanted to clarify that if the Flyers didn't graduate 3 top prospects(Carter, Richards, Pitkanen) so quick they wouldve been in the top ten at least. Plus before the season they didn't know Nodl & Bartulis were gonna have breakout years, as well as having Giroux & Downie, both highly regarded players.
The announcers made a huge deal about the Forsberg pass that led to the goal, but I thought the play by Pitkanen was at least as good. He received Forsberg's pass and slid it across the crease all in one motion, leaving a wide open net. And don't forget the goal he scored like three seconds into OT last season, right off the faceoff.

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01-29-2007, 03:30 PM
  #25
Fireonk
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Just wanted to clarify that if the Flyers didn't graduate 3 top prospects(Carter, Richards, Pitkanen) so quick they wouldve been in the top ten at least. Plus before the season they didn't know Nodl & Bartulis were gonna have breakout years, as well as having Giroux & Downie, both highly regarded players.
Fair enough. Like I said, I am far from an expert and was just going by the list. Still in my biased, and poorly educated (from the flyers side) opinion Id take the Rangers youngsters over Philly's.

Even if we consider the two groups even from a young talent point of view the fact of the matter is we are still able to compete AND have the talent stocked up. Either way its crazy talk to be jealous of the Flyers right now.

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