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01-18-2014, 10:13 PM
  #101
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Question for you guys that know the game more than me. (I'm a fan and know the rules, but lack game strategy and systems because I never played).

In the third period, our guys were everywhere...putting pressure on, rushing the net, etc etc. Ellis noted in the post game that they traded up sitting back defensively like they always do to gambling a bit because they had to. In my mind, the team looked entirely different and actually scored 3 goals in a period along with an onslaught of shots on goal.

Everyone has said that Trotz holds the team's offense back and wants us to play only defense. But we looked really good shifting gears to offense a bit instead...it made all of the difference in the world. So do we actually have players on the team that can score plenty, they are just held back by our system? Or could we no sustain such a gambling style every game. Curious of your thoughts.

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01-18-2014, 10:14 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Russian Pred View Post
That one intercepted pass in the third was especially bad but Dubnyk saved our bacon. But who would they play in Jones' place?
Healthy Klein. Piskula from Milwaukee.

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01-18-2014, 10:17 PM
  #103
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Klein was a scratch tonight.
One night off may not hurt if it were to give the kid some rest and let him evaluate his performance a bit. But I don't feel comfortable playing Bartley in his place (if Klein was ready to play). Or Piskula.

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01-18-2014, 10:22 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by codeman00 View Post
Question for you guys that know the game more than me. (I'm a fan and know the rules, but lack game strategy and systems because I never played).

In the third period, our guys were everywhere...putting pressure on, rushing the net, etc etc. Ellis noted in the post game that they traded up sitting back defensively like they always do to gambling a bit because they had to. In my mind, the team looked entirely different and actually scored 3 goals in a period along with an onslaught of shots on goal.

Everyone has said that Trotz holds the team's offense back and wants us to play only defense. But we looked really good shifting gears to offense a bit instead...it made all of the difference in the world. So do we actually have players on the team that can score plenty, they are just held back by our system? Or could we no sustain such a gambling style every game. Curious of your thoughts.
I think we have shown in several games we can cycle well and actually create offense and pressure when we want to. Think we should have done that off the bat then gradually getting to that as the game goes on. We seem to play better in the later part of the games than the first periods. Don't know if that is because it takes them time to get their feet going or what. They need to work on getting going from the start and not when they are down by alot. I think the less time we are spending on our side of the ice is better for our team since we are struggling defensively and don't have a high caliber goalie at the moment to help make those stops when we do make defensive mistakes and leave opponents wide open. So yes if I was the coach I would have them cycling everywhere and put the pressure on the other team from the beginning of the game to keep the puck on the opponent's team side of the ice at least and not on ours. When we do that the other team is spending less time in our end of the ice at least and has less chances to score on us. Once we get a lead though then we may be able to lessen the pressure up some but not alot to where they can come back.


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01-18-2014, 10:30 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman00 View Post
Question for you guys that know the game more than me. (I'm a fan and know the rules, but lack game strategy and systems because I never played).

In the third period, our guys were everywhere...putting pressure on, rushing the net, etc etc. Ellis noted in the post game that they traded up sitting back defensively like they always do to gambling a bit because they had to. In my mind, the team looked entirely different and actually scored 3 goals in a period along with an onslaught of shots on goal.

Everyone has said that Trotz holds the team's offense back and wants us to play only defense. But we looked really good shifting gears to offense a bit instead...it made all of the difference in the world. So do we actually have players on the team that can score plenty, they are just held back by our system? Or could we no sustain such a gambling style every game. Curious of your thoughts.
No coach advocates 100% offense or defense. When a team takes risks to generate offense, it leaves itself open to attack. Usually when a team does it is in a situation like tonight ... the team with a lead doesn't have the need to press offensively so the result is one team going balls to the wall trying to generate offense against a team that tries to go into a shell defensively and only attacks when there is a clear chance. Calgary and Philly did the same thing against us when we had a lead in the 3rd that we tried tonight against the Avs.

It's a high risk move like pulling the goalie late. When already down, the chance of catching up mitigates the risk of falling even further behind. Notice that NO team keeps taking the high risks once tying a game .. .the risks no longer outweigh the possible reward.

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01-18-2014, 10:30 PM
  #106
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Jones and Eckholm were both a -3 tonight.

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01-18-2014, 10:34 PM
  #107
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Wow, Seth Jones played every single game so far. Give the kid a break (as in a physical break, no pun intended).

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01-18-2014, 10:47 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Russian Pred View Post
Wow, Seth Jones played every single game so far. Give the kid a break (as in a physical break, no pun intended).
Seth's mommy would go to social media war if Barry pulled something like that...even if he really could use a game or two off.

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01-18-2014, 10:49 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
No coach advocates 100% offense or defense. When a team takes risks to generate offense, it leaves itself open to attack. Usually when a team does it is in a situation like tonight ... the team with a lead doesn't have the need to press offensively so the result is one team going balls to the wall trying to generate offense against a team that tries to go into a shell defensively and only attacks when there is a clear chance. Calgary and Philly did the same thing against us when we had a lead in the 3rd that we tried tonight against the Avs.

It's a high risk move like pulling the goalie late. When already down, the chance of catching up mitigates the risk of falling even further behind. Notice that NO team keeps taking the high risks once tying a game .. .the risks no longer outweigh the possible reward.
I understand...thanks!

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01-18-2014, 11:21 PM
  #110
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On a positive side it seems like Weber is caring more and being more of a leader on this team.

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01-18-2014, 11:30 PM
  #111
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On a positive side it seems like Weber is caring more and being more of a leader on this team.
Add to this that Smith and Ellis remain red hot.

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01-18-2014, 11:32 PM
  #112
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Add to this that Smith and Ellis remain red hot.
Yep they both have been playing well this year.

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01-19-2014, 12:17 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
He gets hung out to dry on the first three ... yet it's goaltending not the utter collapse of team defense in the first?
Yes, it was goaltending. The one dubnyk let roll out his backside like a rabbit turd was one of about 4 like that that could have and most nights would have gone in the net.

I think the guys fought back so hard because they knew they had let their new goalie down in the first, but to me the game was lost on that pitiful 4th goal.

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01-19-2014, 12:17 AM
  #114
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Cullen was all over the place tonight.

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01-19-2014, 12:30 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Russian Pred View Post
Wow, Seth Jones played every single game so far. Give the kid a break (as in a physical break, no pun intended).
Trotz did pull him back for 8-9 games and everyone here criticized him for giving him 12 min a game for a bit so he could get his legs back under him. He will keep playing 17-20 min a night until the Olympic break where he can rest again.

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01-19-2014, 06:29 AM
  #116
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Yes, it was goaltending. The one dubnyk let roll out his backside like a rabbit turd was one of about 4 like that that could have and most nights would have gone in the net.

I think the guys fought back so hard because they knew they had let their new goalie down in the first, but to me the game was lost on that pitiful 4th goal.
So the first 3 that went in because of the guys in front of him had no bearing on the game?

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01-19-2014, 09:44 AM
  #117
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I see that your fans are making up excused for Dubnyk now.... Get used to it. THAT was classic Dubnyk, letting soft goals and killing a team that fought but still can't shut the door. He IS a big goalie who makes himself small in his net.
How Many of those type of games before your team loses all of its drive and confidence? Well welcome to the beginning of the 2013 Edmonton Oilers season.
Sorry guys, I could care less who won the trade. Hendricks is the kind of player that we are lacking so I'm happy. Dubs on the other hand is just a big piece of ****** goalie. Enough excuses for this loser already.

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01-19-2014, 10:02 AM
  #118
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So the first 3 that went in because of the guys in front of him had no bearing on the game?
That 4th goal is exactly the kind of goal you can't let in if you're battling hard to get back in a game. And he was lucky at least two others just like it didn't end up in the net.

Add to that, good goalies bail out their defense sometimes even when they get hung out to dry.

But my original point was, we currently have average goaltending at best. Last nights effort at a comeback, while admirable, is in the big picture meaningless unless we can play the next 15 periods just like we played the third last night.

If that comeback the fell short inspires this team to not let itself get in a hole like that again, then it was great even if we got no points. But if we come out and give up two or three in the first period again next game then it was all just a futile bit of stat padding

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01-19-2014, 10:16 AM
  #119
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I see that your fans are making up excused for Dubnyk now.... Get used to it. THAT was classic Dubnyk, letting soft goals and killing a team that fought but still can't shut the door. He IS a big goalie who makes himself small in his net.
How Many of those type of games before your team loses all of its drive and confidence? Well welcome to the beginning of the 2013 Edmonton Oilers season.
Sorry guys, I could care less who won the trade. Hendricks is the kind of player that we are lacking so I'm happy. Dubs on the other hand is just a big piece of ****** goalie. Enough excuses for this loser already.
I dont see many NSH fans making exuses for him.. And they dont have to get used to him... They can sit him on his ass for remainder of the year and walk away afterwards.

The team wont lost its drive because Duby will be stapled to the bench.

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01-19-2014, 10:17 AM
  #120
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I see that your fans are making up excused for Dubnyk now.... Get used to it. THAT was classic Dubnyk, letting soft goals and killing a team that fought but still can't shut the door. He IS a big goalie who makes himself small in his net.
How Many of those type of games before your team loses all of its drive and confidence? Well welcome to the beginning of the 2013 Edmonton Oilers season.
Sorry guys, I could care less who won the trade. Hendricks is the kind of player that we are lacking so I'm happy. Dubs on the other hand is just a big piece of ****** goalie. Enough excuses for this loser already.
Great for you. It's a good trade then because Dub could let in another 500 goals this year or never play for the Pred's again and I will be happy with the trade this year. And next. And the next. And the one after that too.

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01-19-2014, 10:24 AM
  #121
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We could care less how dd performs. We have been getting atrocious goaltending all year. Wwe have also been paying 1.875 million for a 4th line role player that doesn't even grind very often. Have fun with that contract for 3 more years.

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01-19-2014, 10:39 AM
  #122
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That 4th goal is exactly the kind of goal you can't let in if you're battling hard to get back in a game. And he was lucky at least two others just like it didn't end up in the net.

Add to that, good goalies bail out their defense sometimes even when they get hung out to dry.

But my original point was, we currently have average goaltending at best. Last nights effort at a comeback, while admirable, is in the big picture meaningless unless we can play the next 15 periods just like we played the third last night.

If that comeback the fell short inspires this team to not let itself get in a hole like that again, then it was great even if we got no points. But if we come out and give up two or three in the first period again next game then it was all just a futile bit of stat padding
He bailed the defense out several times (ask Seth about one of those times) only to get put in positions where no goalie is making the stop a few times as well. The 4th goal he should have stopped ... two of the first three you could have put past him with the breakdowns in defensive coverage after a flurry of shots. Team defense, or the lack thereof, put this team in a hole. Blame DD for the one that was clearly his fault ... blame the team for the ones where their mistakes (missed coverages, failures to clear, etc) put him in a position where he had zero chance.

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01-19-2014, 10:48 AM
  #123
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He bailed the defense out several times (ask Seth about one of those times) only to get put in positions where no goalie is making the stop a few times as well. The 4th goal he should have stopped ... two of the first three you could have put past him with the breakdowns in defensive coverage after a flurry of shots. Team defense, or the lack thereof, put this team in a hole. Blame DD for the one that was clearly his fault ... blame the team for the ones where their mistakes (missed coverages, failures to clear, etc) put him in a position where he had zero chance.
You and glenn are both missing my point, which is we don't have the goaltending to allow ourselves to battle back from a early deficit successfully even with a herculean effort. It was clear to me the way we played the second that if we could hold colorado at three we had a decent chance of coming back and at least tying the game. The problem is we don't have a tender who can hold a team scoreless for 2+ periods reliably to allow the comeback. Even if Rinne had given up all three first period goals, once the team got going in front of him I feel pretty confident he could have held them off the rest of the game and given the guys a chance to tie it up

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01-19-2014, 10:55 AM
  #124
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Great for you. It's a good trade then because Dub could let in another 500 goals this year or never play for the Pred's again and I will be happy with the trade this year. And next. And the next. And the one after that too.
I think that you guys are missing my point. I could really care less who won or lost the trade. The fact of the matter is there was always Dubnyk apologists in Edmonton blaming it on our horrible defense (which they are). But I am hearing some of the same comments here.
He is what he is, a mentally weak, large but bad positionally goaltender who consistently lets in backbreaking weak goals when the game is on the line. He loses a LOT more games for you then what he wins.

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01-19-2014, 10:58 AM
  #125
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We could care less how dd performs. We have been getting atrocious goaltending all year. Wwe have also been paying 1.875 million for a 4th line role player that doesn't even grind very often. Have fun with that contract for 3 more years.
1.8 million over the next three years considering what the cap is going up to is the least of our teams concerns.

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