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How expendable is Vladimir Sobotka to the Blues?

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Old
01-19-2014, 02:40 PM
  #201
Novacain
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How is this thread still a thing?

Also, I don't even think about doing Sobotka for 1 year of Miller by itself, let alone with a first. If we get rid of Sobotka, we then need a player exactly like Sobotka, our center depth goes to crap and we have to move Berglund back there full time. It also leaves us no depth in case of center injury: Whats our plan if Backes or Roy went down? Bump up Lapierre to line 3 and call up Aucoin? No thank you.

This thread makes no sense, and has no real argument in reality.


Last edited by Celtic Note: 01-19-2014 at 05:32 PM.
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01-19-2014, 03:19 PM
  #202
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Sobotka has more points than Stewart and Berglund playing in less games.

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01-19-2014, 03:30 PM
  #203
STEVIE RAY BLUES
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WHOA! REALLY?

I gotta say it some of you guys need to take a deep breath. I love Sobotka's game alot. Pound for pound one of the toughest little guys in the league and a pretty good pivot to boot and this is coming from a guy who watched Bob Bassen play and was a huge fan!
BUT: That being said if the cost for Miller is Sobie and our #1 a pick in the 20's then I'm packing his stuff for him and giving him a ride to the airport so he doesn't miss his flight!

Understand this I know the reason the Blues have been getting schooled lately isn't because of goaltending. One goal a game does not equal victory on most nights and usually not in the playoffs either but I also don't believe in Halak or Elliot. Outside of Broudeur I consider him the best goalie available and win or lose could hardly complain if we lost with him in net. The real crying shame in the whole deal is we need another forward who can actually score instead of skating around and watching things happen like Bergie and Stewie do on most nights!
Just my two cents.

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01-19-2014, 03:49 PM
  #204
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If Sobotka is a #2 center on our team then our top nine are weaker than I thought.

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01-19-2014, 03:51 PM
  #205
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Then the top nine are weaker than you thought.


Last edited by Celtic Note: 01-19-2014 at 05:33 PM.
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01-19-2014, 03:59 PM
  #206
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He's been our #2 center for the vast majority of the season.

Our writers can understand the basic concept of TOI and player usage to understand that the Morrow-Roy-Stewart line has always been our 3rd line and too many fans have just gone with what they say.

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01-19-2014, 04:04 PM
  #207
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My point was that we need both a money goalie and a scoring forward. Miller is a more proven commodity than what we have in goal and what I clearly said was that goal-tending was not the reason we have been losing lately.


Last edited by Celtic Note: 01-19-2014 at 05:33 PM.
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01-19-2014, 04:07 PM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STEVIE RAY BLUES View Post
Did someone not eat his Wheaties this morning? Never asked for an attack Pocket nines. My point was that we need both a money goalie and a scoring forward. Miller is a more proven commodity than what we have in goal and what I clearly said was that goal-tending was not the reason we have been losing lately. Reading is fundamental
Yes it would be nice to get Miller but Sobotka+1st is just so much of an overpayment. Would you trade Shattenkirk for Miller? I mean like you said we need a money goalie.

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01-19-2014, 04:21 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by KirkOut View Post
Yes it would be nice to get Miller but Sobotka+1st is just so much of an overpayment. Would you trade Shattenkirk for Miller? I mean like you said we need a money goalie.
I think where I would argue would be that we wouldn't be trading shattenkirk for Miller we would be trading the chance at drafting someone like shattenkirk for Miller. With the Blues draft history we all know nothing is for certain. Again I think Miller is a proven goalie and a big upgrade. Send either Halak or Elliot anywhere you want. Take your pick I think they are both #2's.


Last edited by Celtic Note: 01-19-2014 at 05:33 PM.
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01-19-2014, 04:32 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STEVIE RAY BLUES View Post
Well at least you had a differing opinion without being a jerk. I think where I would argue would be that we wouldn't be trading shattenkirk for Miller we would be trading the chance at drafting someone like shattenkirk for Miller. With the Blues draft history we all know nothing is for certain. Again I think Miller is a proven goalie and a big upgrade. Send either Halak or Elliot anywhere you want. Take your pick I think they are both #2's.
Most of us are fine with 1st round pick for Miller which is what I assume you are talking about with the opportunity to draft someone like Shattenkirk bit. But Sobotka has value to this team and any team. There have been maximum 5 and minimum 3 forwards who have been better this year for us. Trading him would be taking a step forward and an equal or greater one back. I'd rather go with Elliott and Sobotka than Miller and not Sobotka.

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01-19-2014, 04:49 PM
  #211
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He's back, one boy, with many disguises.

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01-19-2014, 05:05 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STEVIE RAY BLUES View Post
So is overating Sobotka. He's a third liner. Albeit a good one.
It turns out he's a 2nd liner. Unless you can name 6 better forwards on the Blues.

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01-19-2014, 05:29 PM
  #213
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MOD NOTE: Leave the attacks and disrespectful sarcasm at the door.

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01-19-2014, 05:31 PM
  #214
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It's getting a little dicey in here. For the most part, you're discussing the post instead of the poster, but I can see it trending south. Just a reminder to keep it about the post.

EDIT: ^^^ Yeah, what he said.

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01-19-2014, 06:00 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
It's getting a little dicey in here. For the most part, you're discussing the post instead of the poster, but I can see it trending south. Just a reminder to keep it about the post.

EDIT: ^^^ Yeah, what he said.
You're right. Better to leave a thread alone than respond to a specific poster.

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01-19-2014, 06:15 PM
  #216
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WHOA! REALLY? I gotta say it some of you guys need to take a deep breath. I love Sobotka's game alot. Pound for pound one of the toughest little guys in the league and a pretty good pivot to boot and this is coming from a guy who watched Bob Bassen play and was a huge fan!
BUT: That being said if the cost for Miller is Sobie and our #1 a pick in the 20's then I'm packing his stuff for him and giving him a ride to the airport so he doesn't miss his flight!
Thank you Stevie Ray for daring to express your opinion that goes against the majority.
And that's exactly it. Contrary to what some have said, I don't dislike Sobotka at all. I actually campaigned that Sobotka had to make the Czech Olympic team when some were predicting he'd be left off. However, he's a move-able asset and the Blues have an abundance of players to fill any void Sobotka brings -- that's what Armstrong was doing when he was signing Morror, Roy and Lapierre.

I hate to compare teams because they are nothing alike, but I did watch the Red Wings when they were in the same position the Blues are now -- and they had an abundance of small hard working forwards on their 4th line. Guys like Bob Errey, Tim Taylor, Greg Johnson, to go along with Kris Draper. In the playoffs you need big bodies in those positions and all but one of those guys were moved out for bigger bodies like Sandstrom and Lapointe.

This what the Blues need against the Kings, Sharks and Ducks. Moving Sobotka makes them bigger where they need to be.

And when people say "you don't move Sobotka for a rental"....yes you do if you believe that rental is the missing piece that will get you over the hump and bring a Cup in June.

Someone was throwing out Shattenkirk's name instead of Sobotka for Miller? This is what I don't think most fans understand. The trade board is littered with this type of thinking. Fans can't just pick out a player they don't like or with a bad contract you'd like to rid yourself of and say "trade that guy for what we need".

Understand this about the Sabres. They are tanking for 2015 so they can get McDavid. Sources have said Buffalo is asking for 2015 picks instead 2014 draft picks as the cornerstone in deals for Miller, Moulson and Ott.

The Sabres have no need for Shattenkirk's 4.25 mil contract for another 3 years. Yet Sobotka, as I said, is a perfect player for them. He doesn't have a huge contract (and he's RFA so they control it). And even though they are tanking or "rebuilding", young teams still want and need players to set the right example for the young players on their roster. They want guys who will teach the kids to play hard every shift. Sobotka is perfect for them.

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01-19-2014, 06:26 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieG View Post
Thank you Stevie Ray for daring to express your opinion that goes against the majority.
And that's exactly it. Contrary to what some have said, I don't dislike Sobotka at all. I actually campaigned that Sobotka had to make the Czech Olympic team when some were predicting he'd be left off. However, he's a move-able asset and the Blues have an abundance of players to fill any void Sobotka brings -- that's what Armstrong was doing when he was signing Morror, Roy and Lapierre.

I hate to compare teams because they are nothing alike, but I did watch the Red Wings when they were in the same position the Blues are now -- and they had an abundance of small hard working forwards on their 4th line. Guys like Bob Errey, Tim Taylor, Greg Johnson, to go along with Kris Draper. In the playoffs you need big bodies in those positions and all but one of those guys were moved out for bigger bodies like Sandstrom and Lapointe.

This what the Blues need against the Kings, Sharks and Ducks. Moving Sobotka makes them bigger where they need to be.

And when people say "you don't move Sobotka for a rental"....yes you do if you believe that rental is the missing piece that will get you over the hump and bring a Cup in June.

Someone was throwing out Shattenkirk's name instead of Sobotka for Miller? This is what I don't think most fans understand. The trade board is littered with this type of thinking. Fans can't just pick out a player they don't like or with a bad contract you'd like to rid yourself of and say "trade that guy for what we need".

Understand this about the Sabres. They are tanking for 2015 so they can get McDavid. Sources have said Buffalo is asking for 2015 picks instead 2014 draft picks as the cornerstone in deals for Miller, Moulson and Ott.

The Sabres have no need for Shattenkirk's 4.25 mil contract for another 3 years. Yet Sobotka, as I said, is a perfect player for them. He doesn't have a huge contract. And even though they are tanking or "rebuilding", young teams still want and need players to set the right example for the young players on their roster. They want guys who will teach the kids to play hard every shift.
I don't consider Sobotka untouchable, but I think it is pretty unlikely you will get the kind of value he brings to the team back in a trade. If he were park of a package for a #1 center then so be it, but if he were included with a 1st for Miller, then I would say that is a terrible deal for the Blues. That would ultimately kill the very little center depth we have.

Sobotka plays Blues hockey to a tee. That much is clear. He and Tarasenko have chemistry, which is a plus. He is a very accountable two way physical player and is awesome at the faceoff dot.

If we are talking about players to move for a change/upgrade from the forward crop then I would suggest (in order):
Tier 1
Stewart
MPS
Morrow

Tier 2
Roy
Berglund

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01-19-2014, 06:41 PM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieG View Post
Thank you Stevie Ray for daring to express your opinion that goes against the majority.
And that's exactly it. Contrary to what some have said, I don't dislike Sobotka at all. I actually campaigned that Sobotka had to make the Czech Olympic team when some were predicting he'd be left off. However, he's a move-able asset and the Blues have an abundance of players to fill any void Sobotka brings -- that's what Armstrong was doing when he was signing Morror, Roy and Lapierre.

I hate to compare teams because they are nothing alike, but I did watch the Red Wings when they were in the same position the Blues are now -- and they had an abundance of small hard working forwards on their 4th line. Guys like Bob Errey, Tim Taylor, Greg Johnson, to go along with Kris Draper. In the playoffs you need big bodies in those positions and all but one of those guys were moved out for bigger bodies like Sandstrom and Lapointe.

This what the Blues need against the Kings, Sharks and Ducks. Moving Sobotka makes them bigger where they need to be.

And when people say "you don't move Sobotka for a rental"....yes you do if you believe that rental is the missing piece that will get you over the hump and bring a Cup in June.

Someone was throwing out Shattenkirk's name instead of Sobotka for Miller? This is what I don't think most fans understand. The trade board is littered with this type of thinking. Fans can't just pick out a player they don't like or with a bad contract you'd like to rid yourself of and say "trade that guy for what we need".

Understand this about the Sabres. They are tanking for 2015 so they can get McDavid. Sources have said Buffalo is asking for 2015 picks instead 2014 draft picks as the cornerstone in deals for Miller, Moulson and Ott.

The Sabres have no need for Shattenkirk's 4.25 mil contract for another 3 years. Yet Sobotka, as I said, is a perfect player for them. He doesn't have a huge contract (and he's RFA so they control it). And even though they are tanking or "rebuilding", young teams still want and need players to set the right example for the young players on their roster. They want guys who will teach the kids to play hard every shift. Sobotka is perfect for them.
The argument for not moving Sobotka is that he plays much bigger than he is. He hits likes he's bigger, he creates space on the boards... essentially, he does everything you want a player to do. Only thing he lacks is a scoring touch. But that's it! And his point production has increased over the years, so he's no detriment there either. He's too valuable to the team to be moved, especially to make a marginal upgrade in goal.

It's safe to say at this point that Hitch and Army consider Sobotka a core player, one you don't move unless a better replacement is coming back. I can't imagine getting anyone in return who will give you what Sobi gives you at his cost. That's not to say he's a franchise player. He's one of those guys a team needs. Makes the team better and doesn't break the bank.

Anyway, that's all I have to say about this. Count me as another one of the forum members who hopes this discussion disappears from the topic list.

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01-19-2014, 07:50 PM
  #219
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This thread is going nowhere. Closed.

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