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Rita and Bishai recalled

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01-29-2004, 07:38 PM
  #51
dawgbone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
That seems to be about par for the course with Oilers. Are you serisouly going to tell me that more then half the Oilers don't suffer from this exact same affliction? Why does everyone else get a free pass, but Rita gets the cold shoulder?
Who's getting a free pass? Pisani, Horcoff, Chimera have all spent their time in the AHL, and have performed at least reasonably well at some point in the NHL to deserve at least a little bit of leeway. Current Oilers are also doing it against the best players in the league, where as Rita is doing it at a lower level. If he can't do it at a lower level, what realistic chance does he have at doing it at the NHL level?

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By all means, after managment has given Rita a 'real' opportunity to succeed and he doesn't, bench him, send him to the minors, whatever. But give him that 'real' shot. Give him quality icetime with quality linemates, not just for a period, not just for a game, but for 15-20 game stretch
I'm sorry, but why? Why should Rita be different from anyone else? Was Jason Chimera put on the 2nd line automatically? Pisani? Firstly, you have to let him get into the games and get into the speed of the game. You don't throw him out on the 2nd line now, and hope he swims. Put him on the 4th, and if he can handle his assignments and is contributing (that doesn't necessarily mean scoring goals), then you give him more responsibilities and more ice time. You start him low, and let him build it up, you don't start high and sit there and pull him down.

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Any particular reason why not? Do you think the guys we have up here now are doing a capable job of holding that 2-1 lead? I don't think they are. I would venture that the odds of losing that 1 goal lead are not going to go up significantly if we give Horcoffs icetime to Rita. Hell, maybe he'll even score and turn it into a 3-1 lead, which is more the Horcoff seems capable of doing.
Are you kidding me? If a player is having a crappy game, especially a young one, don't throw him out on the ice at an important stretch... you are just asking for trouble. Sure, he might score the 3-1 goal, or he might blow a defensive assignment and the score is tied 2-2. Sure the 3-1 goal is a confidence boost, but that 2-2 goal hurts way more. Then what do you have? A player with no confidence in his abilities because he feels it was all his fault. Not only that, when he is on the ice do you think he is going to be thinking "I'm gonna score to make it 3-1" or is he saying "oh my god, I better not cost my team the game"?

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Indeed. But give Rita a chance to bring his game, Horcoff/Pisani/Chimera all had ample opportunity to bring their game. Don't bring 'em up, game in had, and then sit him at the end of the bench. That doesn't lead to good will & hunger, instead it leads to apathy.
Horcoff/Pisani/Chimera also paid their dues, and proved that they were too good for the AHL and that they couldn't learn anything more from there, so at that point you have to give them a shot. Rita hasn't proven that yet. Rita has shown that he can be dominating and one of the better players in the AHL, but he has also shown that he still has lots to learn here. If Rita comes up and can't fulfill his assignments, whether they are as a 4th line energy player, a 3rd line checker, or whatever, he doesn't deserve to play the next game. He has the abilities to fill these roles right now, it's a matter of whether or not he has the will to do them.


Last edited by dawgbone: 01-29-2004 at 11:23 PM.
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01-29-2004, 07:47 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC Trojans
Yeah, honestly! How much pressure do you think that'll put on Rita now? I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't play to his ability with all those eyes watching him. Just let the poor kid play and do his thing!! But on the other hand, if he does do well, I'd be even more impressed with him!
This is professional sports and all the Oilers are now going to get a short rope. If they don't produce trades will be made.

There is no time to mully coddle anyone including Rita.

All the players mentioned started in the AHL and started on the fourth line. They paid their dues. Rita should be no different.

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01-29-2004, 08:05 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
This is professional sports and all the Oilers are now going to get a short rope. If they don't produce trades will be made.

There is no time to mully coddle anyone including Rita.

All the players mentioned started in the AHL and started on the fourth line. They paid their dues. Rita should be no different.
I think what the fans want is for Rita to be given a fair opportunity to make the club. Hopefully no one thinks that someone on the 4th line getting minimal ice time is going to save the season. Just as the name players, such as Vinny and Peter the Great, have stepped up against the Oilers so do some Oilers, such as Brewer, Smyth, have to step up against the opposition. Rita hopefully will help but the pressure needs to be on the big guns.

By my defintion of fair Rita will not get an equal opportunity. There are waiver and one-way contracts that tilt the playing field. His only hope is to play well enough to make a veteran expendable and given MacT's blind loyalty to some veterans I don't see this happening. On the other hand lose a few more games, watch the playoffs disappear onto the first green and you will likely see a few more AHL types on the Oilers.

 
Old
01-29-2004, 08:54 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
This is professional sports and all the Oilers are now going to get a short rope. If they don't produce trades will be made.

There is no time to mully coddle anyone including Rita.

All the players mentioned started in the AHL and started on the fourth line. They paid their dues. Rita should be no different.
Who's talking about coddling?

I just want him to be given a decent shot, just like everyone else. At this point in the season and considering the Oilers are hanging onto playoff contention by the very slimmest of threads, why bring up Rita and Bishai just so they can 'pay their dues' on the 4th line? If they're supposedly being called up to put some pressure on some of the current roster players and they only play on the 4th line, IMO that's misplaced blame. Our 4th line isn't the reason we're 4 games under .500 and closer to a lottery pick than a playoff date...inadequate goaltending, spotty defensive play, and ZERO offensive talent at center (York excluded, but he's not a natural C to begin with) have done a lot more damage.

And there's also that thing about this being the last year of waiver exemption for Rita...Lowe has to make a big decision on him, whether or not to offer him a one way deal or get rid of him because I doubt very much Rita would sign another two way at this point in his career. For this reason alone I wish Rita had been called up earlier in the year, when the team had a bit more room to breathe and wasn't in such a panic mode.

Put simply, I'm OK with Rita starting NHL life on the 4th line but IMO it's a little late in the game for that sort of thing, unless Lowe and MacT deep down believe the playoffs are out of reach anyway, in which case what does it matter...

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01-29-2004, 09:09 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
This is professional sports and all the Oilers are now going to get a short rope. If they don't produce trades will be made.

There is no time to mully coddle anyone including Rita.

All the players mentioned started in the AHL and started on the fourth line. They paid their dues. Rita should be no different.
Who's talking about coddling? We're only talking about him getting some fair treatment from the coaches. No one thinks that Rita should come in and get star treatment from everybody just cause he's a first round pick. Of course he's gonna start off by getting 3rd or 4th line minutes. It would be crazy for a coach to give their young rookies 20 minutes a game.

We're just asking that MacT gives Rita a chance to prove himself...and we're not talking about 5-6 minutes a game. At least give him decent playing minutes with some decent linemates. And don't yank him out and bench him the minute he makes his first mistake...He's a rookie, that's what rookies do sometimes, make rookie mistakes. It just seems like MacT's patience is short with Rita and will send him back the minute he makes a mistake.

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01-29-2004, 09:22 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC Trojans
Who's talking about coddling? We're only talking about him getting some fair treatment from the coaches. No one thinks that Rita should come in and get star treatment from everybody just cause he's a first round pick. Of course he's gonna start off by getting 3rd or 4th line minutes. It would be crazy for a coach to give their young rookies 20 minutes a game.

We're just asking that MacT gives Rita a chance to prove himself...and we're not talking about 5-6 minutes a game. At least give him decent playing minutes with some decent linemates. And don't yank him out and bench him the minute he makes his first mistake...He's a rookie, that's what rookies do sometimes, make rookie mistakes. It just seems like MacT's patience is short with Rita and will send him back the minute he makes a mistake.
Where is this attitude that MacT hates rookies comes from? Last year, he integrated Hemsky, Semenov, Pisani, Chimera into the mix. This year, Torres, Stoll and Conklin all got their dues and game times. Bergeron was tried for a fair amount this season but has not shown to be consistently good enough. Seriously you guys are so biased anti-MacT its not even funny. You're on his case about Rita, but you won't give him credit for turning the other rookies into NHL'ers. What rookies has MacT not given fair treatment? Name them.

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01-29-2004, 09:39 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogeo69
What rookies has MacT not given fair treatment? Name them.
Jani Rita

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Old
01-29-2004, 09:51 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogeo69
Where is this attitude that MacT hates rookies comes from?
"It just seems like MacT's patience is short with Rita and will send him back the minute he makes a mistake."

If you read closely I was only talking about Rita. Not rookies in general, although I feel MacT is more biased towards his vets. And I never used the word "hate", don't put words in my mouth.

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01-29-2004, 09:52 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by neogeo69
Where is this attitude that MacT hates rookies comes from? Last year, he integrated Hemsky, Semenov, Pisani, Chimera into the mix. This year, Torres, Stoll and Conklin all got their dues and game times. Bergeron was tried for a fair amount this season but has not shown to be consistently good enough. Seriously you guys are so biased anti-MacT its not even funny. You're on his case about Rita, but you won't give him credit for turning the other rookies into NHL'ers. What rookies has MacT not given fair treatment? Name them.
Semenov was given a chance because he showed glimpes of really good play, along with the fact Niinimaa was becoming expendable (Therefore he got an extra long look). Hemsky was given a long look because hes the Exact player this city yearned for forever.. an offensive hot shot first rounder with incredible natural skill and the moves that get people out of their seats. Pisani was given a look because he works hard, knows his plugging role, and had an unimaginable stretch of luck last season when Alot of his chances started going in. Chimera was given a look because hes fast (and thats an Oiler time-honored tradition), has some hockey skill, and is a local boy. Torres was given a look because hes a very high 1st rounder who came here via a trade Lowe took some heat for(Plus he was pegged as a disturbed originally, something this team needed/needs badly.) Stoll got his shot because hes a overall good young player, and theres a desperate need at C. And Conklin got his shot because in 2001/02 he showed flashes of competency & Lowe had to justify his contact and Ty playing in the AHL, (plus Jussi was let go Just for this reason. MacT had no call in who his backup this year would be).

Jani has not been given a fair shot. I hope this time MacT is serious about giving it to him. (PS. Craig. Young players with 12 games on their NHL resume may make mistakes, this is not cause for immediate benching and/or demotion.)

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01-29-2004, 10:35 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Who's getting a free pass? Pisani, Horcoff, Chimera have all spent their time in the AHL, and have performed at least reasonably well at some point in the NHL to deserve at least a little bit of leeway. Current Oilers are also doing it against the best players in the league, where as Rita is doing it at a lower level. If he can't do it at a lower level, what realistic chance does he have at doing it at the NHL level?
They all did spend their time in the AHL, but they all got real shots at making the team. For some unfathomable reason though, once they've become part of the regular lineup, MacT refuses to send them back down. You say current Oilers are doing it against the best in the league. I say the current Oilers aren't doing much against the best in the league, so why not gie an unknown like Rita a chance to prove himself. whats the worst that can happen? We lose huge games 4-2 instead of 3-1?

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I'm sorry, but why? Why should Rita be different from anyone else? Was Jason Chimera put on the 2nd line automatically? Pisani? Firstly, you have to let him get into the games and get into the speed of the game. You don't throw him out on the 2nd line now, and hope he swims. Put him on the 4th, and if he can handle his assignments and is contributing (that doesn't necessarily mean scoring goals), then you give him more responsibilities and more ice time. You start him low, and let him build it up, you don't start high and sit there and pull him down.
I admit that none of those players was spoon fed 2nd line icetime, but they weren't benched after each mistake repeatedly either. What did Rita do on his 1 real callup to date? 4 goals in 12 games or something? I'd say that should be enough evidence to give him a prolonged shot. MacT seems to be so concerned with producing checkers that he overlooks offensive talent. A guy like Pisani was brought up to be a 3/4 liner energy player & checker and thats why he was given the icetime and line combinations he was given.
I don't see the logic in calling up a player you hope to be a scorer and then play him with pluggers on the 4th line. whenever Pisani fails to record a point, his fans say "Thats ok, thats not his game" But if a guy like Rita makes a defensive error, how come the coaching staff doesn't say "Sure he made the defensive gaffe, but you know what? He's an offensive minded player and defense is not his game" How come 'defensive' players get more leeway with MacT then offensive players. I think it's simply because a defensive error always looks more glaring then a offensive error (IE: missing an open net). If this is indeed the case, it seems rather shortsighted to me

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Are you kidding me? If a player is having a crappy game, especially a young one, don't throw him out on the ice at an important stretch... you are just asking for trouble. Sure, he might score the 3-1 goal, or he might blow a defensive assignment and the score is tied 2-2. Sure the 3-1 goal is a confidence boost, but that 2-2 goal hurts way more. Then what do you have? A player with no confidence in his abilities because he feels it was all his fault. Not only that, when he is on the ice do you think he is going to be thinking "I'm gonna score to make it 3-1" or is he saying "oh my god, I better not cost my team the game"?
All I'm saying is at least give Rita the cahnce to have a good game. Putting Rita on the 4th line with pluggers pretty much guarntees a bad game for an offensive-minded player .

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Horcoff/Pisani/Chimera also paid their dues, and proved that they were too good for the AHL and that they couldn't learn anything more from there, so at that point you have to give them a shot. Rita hasn't proven that yet. Rita has shown that he can be dominating and one of the better players in the AHL, but he has also shown that he still has lots to learn here. If Rita comes up and can't fulfill his assignments, whether they are as a 4th line energy player, a 3rd line checker, or whatever, he doesn't deserve to play the next game. He has the abilities to fill these roles right now, it's a matter of whether or not he has the will to do them.
Rita hasn't had the chance to prove it yet
I guess what it comes down to is that I've pretty much written off this season. Give the new kids a chance. People say they're sick of seeing the Oilers play 20 minutes in a 60 minute game or coming up flat in must-win situations. Worst case scenario: we lose 2 more game then we would of without Rita. Best case scenario: We find out that we've had 2nd line scoring under our nose the whole time

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01-29-2004, 11:01 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC Trojans
"It just seems like MacT's patience is short with Rita and will send him back the minute he makes a mistake."

If you read closely I was only talking about Rita. Not rookies in general, although I feel MacT is more biased towards his vets. And I never used the word "hate", don't put words in my mouth.
Sorry dude you're right. I'm just trying to say that in MacT's defense, he has given a fair shot for a lot of young players being promoted from the Bulldogs/Roadrunners. The Oilers are filled with them. I don't think that Rita had a very good training camp at the start of the season, and was thus sent down. I don't think MacT has a bias against Rita or any young player.

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01-30-2004, 12:37 AM
  #62
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Listening to MacT tonight on the radio he said he wouldn't play both of them. I got the impression he was leaning towards Bishai because he needs a centre. About 1/2 hr. from now I'll know.

 
Old
01-30-2004, 12:56 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windowlicker
Semenov was given a chance because he showed glimpes of really good play, along with the fact Niinimaa was becoming expendable (Therefore he got an extra long look). Hemsky was given a long look because hes the Exact player this city yearned for forever.. an offensive hot shot first rounder with incredible natural skill and the moves that get people out of their seats. Pisani was given a look because he works hard, knows his plugging role, and had an unimaginable stretch of luck last season when Alot of his chances started going in. Chimera was given a look because hes fast (and thats an Oiler time-honored tradition), has some hockey skill, and is a local boy. Torres was given a look because hes a very high 1st rounder who came here via a trade Lowe took some heat for(Plus he was pegged as a disturbed originally, something this team needed/needs badly.) Stoll got his shot because hes a overall good young player, and theres a desperate need at C. And Conklin got his shot because in 2001/02 he showed flashes of competency & Lowe had to justify his contact and Ty playing in the AHL, (plus Jussi was let go Just for this reason. MacT had no call in who his backup this year would be).
First things first. I don't really care what Lowe tells us or anyone else. Niinimaa was never "expendable". And from the defense this year, I would think I am right.

Semenov - limited look. It wasn't until injuries occurred that Semenov got pushed into a top 4 role playing around 18-20 minutes a night. He may have done well with that but it was the circumstances to allow him to get the shot in the first place.

Pisani, Chimera, Conklin, Torres - a large part of them being signed to the club had a huge part to do with the fact they all needed new contracts... and Lowe gave every one of them a one-way. Pisani had half a year of decent play and was a group VI free agent at the end of the year. Most of those player probably wouldn't accept a 2 way contract.. I'm thinking especially Chimera and Pisani in this instance.

This is why a lot of them have stayed up on the NHL club even when they have struggled. Would they get the same kind of opportunity if they had 2 way contracts? Doubtful.

Hemsky - The Oiler could not send him back to the Q. He had shown signs of becoming bored with the level of play there... and the Oilers did not want to stunt his growth. It wasn't that Hemsky showed much of anything... It was that the Oilers did not feel another year in Junior would help his career.

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