HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

I envy the Flyers

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-29-2007, 07:46 PM
  #51
dedalus
Registered User
 
dedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,215
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
C'mon, dedalus, the deal was in January, over a month-and-a-half before the trade deadline.
Dude, we ALL knew that team was going nowhere. Management continued to keep the illusion alive for ... well for whatever reasons were their own, and they were wrong for doing so. Besides, part of what I'm talking about is the entire history of Smith/Sather where there has been an ongoing refusal to admit what should have been admitted many times to yield exactly what the Flyers will reap this draft.

dedalus is offline  
Old
01-29-2007, 07:49 PM
  #52
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 13,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
Dude, we ALL knew that team was going nowhere. Management continued to keep the illusion alive for ... well for whatever reasons were their own, and they were wrong for doing so.

I don't think that's an unusual stance for any management team to take. Every GM waits until the final possibility before he realizes he has to break his team down. Washington went into a nosedive that season earlier then the Rangers. That's why they moved Jagr. And they took back Carter.

jas is online now  
Old
01-29-2007, 09:26 PM
  #53
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,130
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
The post-CBA version of NYR hasn't captured the Cup after 1 1/2 years - that's a reason to rebuild and force losing?
HAHA

the title of this thread sums up the (what I perceive as) confused thinking of the majority of board's population.

Thirty One is offline  
Old
01-29-2007, 10:22 PM
  #54
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,435
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
They've lost so many games it has become clear to them what has to be done. The coach and GM are already gone, and they're thinking of trading one of their older assets to get younger. The team knows it can't stay on the same course and be successful, so they're moving on.

Unlike the Rangers, who also suck, but win just enough games to make you think we don't really need to change anything.

We have a general manager who has the worst won-loss record (196-258) of any Ranger GM in at least the last 40 years, and hasn't even been able to win ONE playoff game! Not one!!!

We're all led to believe by our trusty management that we've got lots of help coming from below, just continue to be patient until it gets here. Unless there is a big name available, of course, then forget the youth and go for it now. We can go for youth again next year. Until there is another veteran available.

And we follow a blueprint that has proven over the last ten years doesn't work.
wow, back of the line buddy. As long as we don't get any ridiculous trades this year, i'll be happy. I don't want a losing team. ever. but i do want management to manage their assets for both maximum long term and short term output. And I want them to acquire a truck load of 2008 first round draft picks so we have a shot (one of those teams is bound to have a bad year!) at Tavares. The idea of purposefully tanking an entire season for a potentially awesome player sounds really pathetic. Management has been clear that they don't think our kids are ready and for the most part, i agree. Now, I think they're feeling comfortable with how they have all progressed this year.

n8 is offline  
Old
01-29-2007, 10:24 PM
  #55
danno2530
 
danno2530's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,453
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to danno2530
I envy the Flyers.

They have much better food and beer at the Wachovia Center than we have at MSG.

Plus they have air hockey and rod hockey tables on the upper concourse!

danno2530 is offline  
Old
01-30-2007, 08:44 AM
  #56
dave4
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Dave, I'm not sure I get what your trying to say or what your advocating.

1) .Take a risk on someone like Forsberg at the right price(if you think there is any).

. Fire Sather, Renney and Maloney.

2) .Stand Pat. Make no changes. Take no risks, etc.

.but still Fire Sather, Renney and Maloney.

3) .Something else.

Please clarify.
It's futile to talk about firing Sather whether you want him fired or not. It's not happening. Because of that, Renney probably isn't going anywhere either, at least not for quite a while.

I guess I would like them to stay the course. For all his faults Sather has drafted better than Neil Smith, taking Jessiman over Parise notwithstanding. So continue with the draft picks, insert the guys from Hartford as they become ready, hope Marc Staal becomes a star, and look for the occasional free agent like Brendan Shanahan who will teach the youngsters how to win.

But trading our youth for a 33 year old with chronic injury problems who we can get in July for nothing if we still want him? When the rest of our team is so bad there is no chance for a Cup run THIS YEAR with or without Forsberg?

No.

There will be a boatload of UFA's available over the summer, let's see what we need to fill in when July rolls around, and then address it.

dave4 is offline  
Old
01-30-2007, 08:48 AM
  #57
dave4
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Originally posted by Dave4:

"And I agree that in 2-3 years the Flyers will be young AND good, while we'll still be trading for older guys and never actually rebuilding."

How exactly do you know this?
Well we've been trading for older guys for the last decade, and we're talking about trading for one right now.

Doesn't take an Edmonton genius to predict we'll still be doing that in 2-3 years.

dave4 is offline  
Old
01-30-2007, 08:50 AM
  #58
SPG
Registered User
 
SPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Utica, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,916
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
They've lost so many games it has become clear to them what has to be done. The coach and GM are already gone, and they're thinking of trading one of their older assets to get younger. The team knows it can't stay on the same course and be successful, so they're moving on.

Unlike the Rangers, who also suck, but win just enough games to make you think we don't really need to change anything.

We have a general manager who has the worst won-loss record (196-258) of any Ranger GM in at least the last 40 years, and hasn't even been able to win ONE playoff game! Not one!!!

We're all led to believe by our trusty management that we've got lots of help coming from below, just continue to be patient until it gets here. Unless there is a big name available, of course, then forget the youth and go for it now. We can go for youth again next year. Until there is another veteran available.

And we follow a blueprint that has proven over the last ten years doesn't work.
Envy the Flyers? Why would you envy the worst team in the NHL (no offense to Flyers fans)? Our track record isn't great, but I sure as hell would rather be in our position than theirs at this point. At least we're lucky enough to be able to watch our team compete for something at this point. Who knows, we might even make the playoffs... after going so long without making it, I cherish every moment I can watch a competitive team.

If you wish we in their spot at the bottom of the league, go ahead and jump ship and start rooting for them. We don't need fans that wish we were in last place instead of a playoff hunt.

SPG is offline  
Old
01-30-2007, 08:54 AM
  #59
HAPPY HOUR
Registered User
 
HAPPY HOUR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 5,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Dave's a killer !

Dave's a mess.
......

HAPPY HOUR is offline  
Old
01-30-2007, 09:02 AM
  #60
dave4
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPG View Post
Envy the Flyers? Why would you envy the worst team in the NHL (no offense to Flyers fans)? Our track record isn't great, but I sure as hell would rather be in our position than theirs at this point. At least we're lucky enough to be able to watch our team compete for something at this point. Who knows, we might even make the playoffs... after going so long without making it, I cherish every moment I can watch a competitive team.

If you wish we in their spot at the bottom of the league, go ahead and jump ship and start rooting for them. We don't need fans that wish we were in last place instead of a playoff hunt.
I don't wish we were at the bottom of the league. I do wish we would 'stay the course' like Maloney said we would on the FAN.

It's not about rooting for the Rangers to lose, or switching allegiance to the Flyers. Don't be so simple. But the Flyers have recognized their problem and are already addressing it. We continue to think we're one veteran away from the Stanley Cup.

dave4 is offline  
Old
01-30-2007, 09:10 AM
  #61
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 13,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
I don't wish we were at the bottom of the league. I do wish we would 'stay the course' like Maloney said we would on the FAN.

It's not about rooting for the Rangers to lose, or switching allegiance to the Flyers. Don't be so simple. But the Flyers have recognized their problem and are already addressing it. We continue to think we're one veteran away from the Stanley Cup.

After trading for "youth" like Zhitnik and York? The Flyers are now trying to do what the Rangers did in 2004. The bottom just fell out sooner. The Rangers, in a rather short amount of time, have accumulated a lot of depth in their system. some of these propsects will be nothing more than assets to make the type of trade you seem to fear. Next year, the likes of Anisimov, Pyatt, Cliche, Dupont, Russell, Olver and hunter are going to be ready to move into either Hartford or Charlotte. Kids like Bahensky and Graham will have a year under their belt, also. The likes of Dubinsky, Callahan, Korpikoski, Dawes, Byers and possibly Moore, could challenge for spots next year. At some point some of these kids are going to be bypassed by the better prospects. The Rangers are going to be almost forced to move some of these kids so they don't become wasted assets.


Last edited by jas: 01-30-2007 at 10:01 AM.
jas is online now  
Old
01-30-2007, 09:14 AM
  #62
dave4
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
After trading for "youth" like Zhitnik and York? The Flyers are now trying to do what the Rangers did in 2004. The bottom just fell out sooner. The Rangers, in a rather short amount of time, have accumulated a lot of depth in their system. some of these propsects will be nothing more than assets to make the type of trade you seem to fear. Next year, the likes of Anisimov, Pyatt, Cliche, Dupont, Russell, Olver and hunter are going to be ready to move into either Hartford or charlotte. Kids like Bahensky and Graham will have a year under their belt, also. The likes of Dudinsky, Callahan, Korpikoski, Dawes, Byers and possibly Moore, could challenge for spots next year. At some point some of these kids are going to be bypassed by the better prospects. The Rangers are going to be almost forced to move some of these kids so they don't become wasted assets.
I don't necessarily have a problem with moving them if the right trade comes along. But trading a guy who may play in the league for ten years, for a guy who may play with the Rangers for 20 games, is not the right trade.

dave4 is offline  
Old
01-30-2007, 09:57 AM
  #63
HAPPY HOUR
Registered User
 
HAPPY HOUR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 5,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
After trading for "youth" like Zhitnik and York? The Flyers are now trying to do what the Rangers did in 2004. The bottom just fell out sooner. The Rangers, in a rather short amount of time, have accumulated a lot of depth in their system. some of these propsects will be nothing more than assets to make the type of trade you seem to fear. Next year, the likes of Anisimov, Pyatt, Cliche, Dupont, Russell, Olver and hunter are going to be ready to move into either Hartford or charlotte. Kids like Bahensky and Graham will have a year under their belt, also. The likes of Dudinsky, Callahan, Korpikoski, Dawes, Byers and possibly Moore, could challenge for spots next year. At some point some of these kids are going to be bypassed by the better prospects. The Rangers are going to be almost forced to move some of these kids so they don't become wasted assets.
I guess we can save that name for him in case he flops....

HAPPY HOUR is offline  
Old
01-30-2007, 09:58 AM
  #64
Fireonk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hour View Post
I guess we can save that name for him in case he flops....
Haha, damn you. I just signed in just so I could write that.

Fireonk is offline  
Old
01-30-2007, 10:23 AM
  #65
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 18,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
They've lost so many games it has become clear to them what has to be done. The coach and GM are already gone, and they're thinking of trading one of their older assets to get younger. The team knows it can't stay on the same course and be successful, so they're moving on.

Unlike the Rangers, who also suck, but win just enough games to make you think we don't really need to change anything.

We have a general manager who has the worst won-loss record (196-258) of any Ranger GM in at least the last 40 years, and hasn't even been able to win ONE playoff game! Not one!!!

We're all led to believe by our trusty management that we've got lots of help coming from below, just continue to be patient until it gets here. Unless there is a big name available, of course, then forget the youth and go for it now. We can go for youth again next year. Until there is another veteran available.

And we follow a blueprint that has proven over the last ten years doesn't work.
I can understand your critizisim towards Sather.

But I hardly envy the Flyers. It looks like nobody there got a clue whatsoever.

We are not just talking about Rathje, Hatcher and Co. We are talking about Sanderson, we are talking about Knuble ,Kyle Calder, RJ Umberger and Afanasenko. Thoose trades/signings must orign in allot more then just the GM, their entire staff must be completly clueless when it comes to how to play the game with the new rules.

How on earth could they trade Hanzus for Kyle Calder? Calder is a Jonathan Cheechoo without a shot.

And not only that, their new coach must be suicidal, how else could he play the system he does? The Flyers D's aren't moving the puck between each other, but they still try to be creative. What a nightmare.

I belive they are a NYR post 1997 waiting to happend...

Ola is online now  
Old
01-30-2007, 10:27 AM
  #66
dave4
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I can understand your critizisim towards Sather.

But I hardly envy the Flyers. It looks like nobody there got a clue whatsoever.

We are not just talking about Rathje, Hatcher and Co. We are talking about Sanderson, we are talking about Knuble ,Kyle Calder, RJ Umberger and Afanasenko. Thoose trades/signings must orign in allot more then just the GM, their entire staff must be completly clueless when it comes to how to play the game with the new rules.

How on earth could they trade Hanzus for Kyle Calder? Calder is a Jonathan Cheechoo without a shot.

And not only that, their new coach must be suicidal, how else could he play the system he does? The Flyers D's aren't moving the puck between each other, but they still try to be creative. What a nightmare.

I belive they are a NYR post 1997 waiting to happend...
I think they're a NYR 2004 waiting to happen.

dave4 is offline  
Old
01-30-2007, 11:00 AM
  #67
Its a PP Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 320
vCash: 500
Agreed Trots it has everything to do with shirking responsibility. If a GM knows how to build a team only by tanking and depending on "can't miss" lottery picks how much credit does he really deserve? Its an easy way out.

Building a self sustaining organization that can compete on an annual basis doesn't necessarily have to begin with a total rebuild. You can play good hockey now or bad hockey as long as you draft well and develop well and have a good system in place with competant management. Detroit and NJ can do it. So do the Yankees and Braves.

Effing Sather.

Its a PP Goal is offline  
Old
01-30-2007, 11:16 AM
  #68
jumptheshark
McDavid Headquarters
 
jumptheshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: EVIL EMPIRE
Country: United Nations
Posts: 59,183
vCash: 2458
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
What are you talking about? They are gonna sign free agents like no tomorrow in the offseason.

Your being way to harsh on Sather's run as GM, he came here and the cupboard was BARE.

It doesn't come very often that you have the stars aligned with players like Jagr and Shanahan on your team, you need to take a risk to reep the reward.
Flyers are not in the position to hog wild in the off season on the market

they have a few bad contracts on the d

__________________
"If the Detroit Red Wings are defying gravity" by consistently contending without the benefit of high draft picks, "the Edmonton Oilers are defying lift.

Welcome to Edmonton Connor McDavid--the rest of you HA HA HA HA HA HA
jumptheshark is offline  
Old
01-30-2007, 08:28 PM
  #69
Radek27
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,580
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
Quote:
Originally Posted by graveyardshift View Post
Flyers are not in the position to hog wild in the off season on the market

they have a few bad contracts on the d
I do envy the Flyers. If they get a nice return for Forseberg they will have a very nice core to build around.

Pitkanen, Carter, Richards, Nitty, Umberger is a good looking group. I wish we had anyone in the Rangers system like Carter.

Radek27 is offline  
Old
01-30-2007, 08:40 PM
  #70
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,467
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I do envy the Flyers. If they get a nice return for Forseberg they will have a very nice core to build around.

Pitkanen, Carter, Richards, Nitty, Umberger is a good looking group. I wish we had anyone in the Rangers system like Carter.
They still need a goalie. Nitty is not the answer.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
01-30-2007, 09:15 PM
  #71
Son of Steinbrenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,756
vCash: 500
What if the Flyers don't draft well? We aren't talking about an exact science here.....Teams make mistakes...Jesus, more mistakes then they have success..

I don't envy the Flyers it sucks watching games knowing your team is playing for nothing...It's nice to have hope in the future but in some ways it's false hope.

Son of Steinbrenner is offline  
Old
01-31-2007, 12:16 AM
  #72
Radek27
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,580
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
They still need a goalie. Nitty is not the answer.
When is it that the Flyers don't need a goalie?


BTW do the Flyers still own the rights to that Drozdetsky kid? I heard he's pretty exciting with the puck.


Last edited by Radek27: 01-31-2007 at 12:18 AM. Reason: Edit
Radek27 is offline  
Old
01-31-2007, 12:36 AM
  #73
Pizza
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
Well we've been trading for older guys for the last decade, and we're talking about trading for one right now.

Doesn't take an Edmonton genius to predict we'll still be doing that in 2-3 years.
While We might talking about it that does not mean Sather and Co. are even seriously considering it. I think they are looking at whats available, but they know the price will be steep. Those were pretty emphatic words that Maloney spoke. It will be hard to justify paying a steep price after what he said for anything that does not have serious upside for the future. We'll see. I'd venture a guess that they are looking at trying Cally and Dubi on a line w/Shanny for a few games first before any move to the outside is made. That's just pure speculation on my part though.


But this whole second line/defense issue has created a real test for the Org. You have a whole lot of people saying how good the Rangers chances are if they just bite the bullet and pay the price for an experienced Center and Dman. I'm not sure I buy that line at all. Look at the effect Ortmeyer had the other night and all we had to do was put him in the line up. If we had six more of him we'd be harder to beat than if we had any of these guys that folks are so anxious for us to trade for. Girardi was pretty solid as well. By the way I think most of those people who are advocating hardest for the trade are not die hard Ranger fans at all. If I were Management, I'd look to Hartford first. Our own familia might be the solution to our needs.

Pizza is online now  
Old
01-31-2007, 06:43 AM
  #74
Kaktus*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 22,389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
We are not just talking about Rathje, Hatcher and Co. We are talking about Sanderson, we are talking about Knuble ,Kyle Calder, RJ Umberger and Afanasenko. Thoose trades/signings must orign in allot more then just the GM, their entire staff must be completly clueless when it comes to how to play the game with the new rules.
Hatcher and Rathje I agree, maybe even Calder (even know he started to play better while Handzus is out this year) but whats wrong with Knuble, Sanderson, Umberger, and picking up Afanasenkov off waivers?

Kaktus* is offline  
Old
01-31-2007, 08:02 AM
  #75
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,467
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
When is it that the Flyers don't need a goalie?
It's amazing that that's the case isn't it? If Clarke had bothered to ever truly address the goaltending situation, they would have won at least one Cup over the past 10 years I have to believe.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:07 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.