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Introducing your 2014-15 Flyers - armchair edition.

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Old
01-17-2014, 06:13 PM
  #276
lancer247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyKat View Post
Im pretty sure lauridsen has a 1 way contract next year, and i think even if he doesnt, he will be on the team. Raffl im convinced will stay as a top 6 forward. He is very similar to voracek but way younger. Instead of doing all these big trades, philly should be smart and let their youth take over. Sort of like san jose did. Guys like wingles and hertl. On defence Grossmann in my opinion has been one of the top D on the team, aleays steady, hard working, etc. That being said we have Luke on D who is a very similar role but not as good. I still see lots of potential in him. And considering we traded JVR for him,
Giving up on him fast would be silly. I think giving him 1 more year to train and improve would be good. I also think he plays better with more minutes. Last year with timonen he was great. Here is what my line up would be next year.

Raffl Giroux Voracek
Simmonds Schenn Lecallavier
Read Couts Akeson
Mcginn Laughton Rinaldo
Hall Cousins

Schenn Gus
Grossmann Lauridsen
Streit Morin
Manning

D still sucks. But the only way to fix this D is with time.


Mason (sign for 4 year 15 million)
Stolarz ( if ready) if not roll the dice on heeter or sign a quallity backup.

Trade hartnell for picks/prospects
Trade Coburn for 1st
Dont resign Timonen.
i hate jumping on other posters but heh?

your post makes my head hurt. Laurisden should play in the NHL if the flyer's charter nose dives into the atlantic.

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Old
01-17-2014, 06:31 PM
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyKat View Post
Im pretty sure lauridsen has a 1 way contract next year, and i think even if he doesnt, he will be on the team. Raffl im convinced will stay as a top 6 forward. He is very similar to voracek but way younger. Instead of doing all these big trades, philly should be smart and let their youth take over. Sort of like san jose did. Guys like wingles and hertl. On defence Grossmann in my opinion has been one of the top D on the team, aleays steady, hard working, etc. That being said we have Luke on D who is a very similar role but not as good. I still see lots of potential in him. And considering we traded JVR for him,
Giving up on him fast would be silly. I think giving him 1 more year to train and improve would be good. I also think he plays better with more minutes. Last year with timonen he was great. Here is what my line up would be next year.

Raffl Giroux Voracek
Simmonds Schenn Lecallavier
Read Couts Akeson
Mcginn Laughton Rinaldo
Hall Cousins

Schenn Gus
Grossmann Lauridsen
Streit Morin
Manning

D still sucks. But the only way to fix this D is with time.


Mason (sign for 4 year 15 million)
Stolarz ( if ready) if not roll the dice on heeter or sign a quallity backup.

Trade hartnell for picks/prospects
Trade Coburn for 1st
Dont resign Timonen.
Dude..... What?

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01-17-2014, 08:00 PM
  #278
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Yeah, basically none of that is happening. If for the simple fact a lot of those players are years away from being rostered / NHL worthy.

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Old
01-18-2014, 12:16 PM
  #279
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Updated with Mason's new deal. RFAs yet to be signed are marked in bold. Almost $6 million in space to sign a FA defensemen.

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.000m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Michael Raffl ($1.000m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Matt Read ($3.625m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) / Scott Laughton ($0.894m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m) / Chris Pronger ($4.941m)
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Cal Heeter ($0.874m)
BUYOUTS
Daniel Briere ($0.000m)
Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,209,720; BONUSES: $212,500
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $5,890,280

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Old
01-18-2014, 04:39 PM
  #280
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I'm starting to think $3m for Schenn won't cut it.

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Old
01-18-2014, 04:42 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
I'm starting to think $3m for Schenn won't cut it.
For a one year deal maybe... If we want to sign him long term it will probably cost us around 4.5+

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01-18-2014, 05:22 PM
  #282
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Kadri and Stepan got two years at $3 million after scoring at a 75 point pace.

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Old
01-18-2014, 05:22 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
I'm starting to think $3m for Schenn won't cut it.
Kadri had 44 in 48 last year and only got a 2 year, $2.9 million contract. (4.51% of cap)

Logan Couture had 56 in 79 then 65 in 80 and only got 2 years, $2.875 million. (4.10% of cap)

Tyler Ennis had 49 in 82 then 34 in 48 and only got 2 years $2.812 million. (4.01% of cap)

Kyle Okposo had 39 in 65, 52 in 80 then 20 in 38 and got 5 years $2.8 million. (4.35% of cap)

Derek Stepan had 45 in 82, 51 in 82 and 44 in 48 and got 2 years $3.075 million (4.78% of cap)

They are probably the 5 most recent contracts given out to players in a similar situation to Schenn, Duchene only got $3.5 million after putting up 150 points over his first 219 games... (4.99% of cap).

The average value of those 5 cap hit wise was $2.892 million and 4.35% of the cap in the year the deal started, 4/5 were two year deals. And all 5 of those guys had better numbers than Schenn will likely have, ie over 50 point pace multiple times or 65+ pace once, and most did it for ~150+ games. Schenn is going to have his last 130 games at ~47-49 point pace at the end of this year.

They are the deals both sides will have down on the table... Schenns agent will be pushing for ~$3.5 million and Holmgren for ~$2.8 million.

4.35% of the cap next year is $3.091 million... that is the mean of the 5.
4.01% of the cap next year is $2.851 million... the lowest of the 5 comparatively.
4.78% of the cap next year is $3.340 million... the highest of the 5.

4.99% of the cap (Duchene cash) is $3.548 million.

Most likely he gets 2-3 years at ~2.9-3.2 million I reckon.

If he gets over 3.5 (barring 65+ points this year... he is pacing for 51 so far) Holmgren is retarded.

If it were me I would go in the room, give them the figures for all those players, tell him we could play hardball but I did not want to do that, and then put down 3 deals for him... 2 years at $2.9, 3 years at $3.2 or 4 years at $3.7 million. His choice.


Last edited by Appleyard: 01-18-2014 at 05:33 PM.
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Old
01-18-2014, 05:23 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
I'm starting to think $3m for Schenn won't cut it.
He needs to keep up his play otherwise I would not like him getting more than $3M/yr. That Larsson for Schenn deal on the main boards is one trade I like. Would never happen though.

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Old
01-20-2014, 08:25 PM
  #285
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In regards to defence the big problem is that we now have 6 #3-5 D men.

That problem can be rectified with a good two way D man slotted in the top 4, and done so cheaper than going and ruining the team for a true #1... but it will require 2 guys being acquired I believe. I think they get someone in FA quite honestly... being the Flyers... but with Kimmo likely retiring (and still probably being our best D man) that means another hole is opened.

Looking realistically:

Coburn
Schenn
Streit

are the three guys likely going no-where. So:

xxxxxx-Coburn
Streit-xxxxxx
Schenn-xxxxxx

is the puzzle really... the #6 is not too big a worry, 14-15 mins a night if the right other two are found.

Now looking at the FA's: Girardi, Nikitin, MacDonald and Niskanen are the only ones who could be realistic top 4 answers for several years. Orpik is ok... but just a Grossmann upgrade really as he could only be paired with Streit most likely. Gilbert and Russell are ok as well... but not my preference, and too weak on the backend to fit.

MacDonald and Girardi I would not be in the slightest worried about. They are currently doing fine in top 4 roles... regardless of what over critical fans say. Nikitin has been awful this year... but has the pedigree and skillset to be decent. Niskanen has his problems... but he is decent.

Apart from those guys it is 1-2 year placeholders in Boyle and Markov.

If they can nab Girardi or MacDonald they are players I would be happy to see on the 2nd pairing. Both play very, very hard minutes already, and while they are not perfect are both decent 2 way D who PK. If they can get one of those two I would be pretty ecstatic.

Niskanen and Nikitin move a puck ok, can play 20mins, but are not exactly consistent and have question marks, neither really PK either.

xxxxxx-Coburn
Streit-Girardi/MacDonald
Schenn-decent #6

looks pretty nice.

That gives you Grossmann and Mez who are expendable so long as they can either plug in Markov or Boyle on a short deal (which will be un-friendly cap wise, though cheaper than current config) or go after a decent 1b in a trade.

Ehrhoff or Edler are likely the only two available to my knowledge. They will cost. If you can somehow get one without giving good prospects or a 1st you do it... but no idea how that can happen!

But

Ehrhoff/Edler-Coburn
Streit-Girardi/MacDonald
Schenn-decent #6
#7

would be a very good 6 IMO. And probably less expensive as the D is this year. (~15 million for 3 already have + a #6 and #7... then 5m for Girardi or MacDonald, 4m for Ehrhoff or 5m for Edler... gives you 24-25million on D, while atm they are at almost 29 million for the 7.)

If they could somehow do that it would be great... maybe shift Grossmann and Mez for picks and use the picks + a forward to get Ehrhoff or Edler? Grossmann would likely command a 2nd + later pick, no idea with Mez.

All a pipe dream... but hey!

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Old
01-21-2014, 02:03 AM
  #286
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I don't think the solution will come via free agency.

The list of UFA is already looking pretty weak and will look even worse once the trade deadline has passed. Teams normally just don't let servicable defensemen walk away for nothing - they trade them. If Homer thinks one of the upcoming UFA would fit right in, they need to trade for him/his rights.

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01-21-2014, 07:52 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
I don't think the solution will come via free agency.

The list of UFA is already looking pretty weak and will look even worse once the trade deadline has passed. Teams normally just don't let servicable defensemen walk away for nothing - they trade them. If Homer thinks one of the upcoming UFA would fit right in, they need to trade for him/his rights.
Yeh, the cost will likely be a 2nd or a 3rd for their rights depending on a player.

The only one who is almost certainly guaranteed is one of Orpik/Niskanen... they cannot realistically resign both.

I do hope Girardi or MacDonald make it though.

Gosh I wish Hamhuis or Suter would have signed with us... or Nashville would have not matched on Weber...

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Old
01-21-2014, 08:19 AM
  #288
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I think the Flyers can get at least one top 4 defenseman in UFA. The will have to do a trade IMO to get a better one. It will probably cost B.Schenn so his continued production is a good thing for his trade value. If they can dump his brother with him, that would be even better. I think Stralman and or MacDonald with hit UFA and both would be an upgrade on the 2nd pair albeit an expensive one. I don't know who they can get on the trade market though even with the Schenns, especially if B. Schenn continues to produce, being an attract piece.

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01-21-2014, 08:28 AM
  #289
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How about we don't trade the only young piece on our blue line or his brother that seemingly produces points out of thin air.

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01-21-2014, 08:48 AM
  #290
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How about we don't trade the only young piece on our blue line or his brother that seemingly produces points out of thin air.
Ok then how do you fix the blueline if you are not willing to trade a good young player? The UFA market as discussed is weak. Other teams don't trade good young players for scraps. If you wait on the prospects, the flyers will be mired in mediocrity for 3-4 years at best before they start to make an impact if they make an impact at all. As far as the good young piece on the blueline: its true he is only 24 but it is his 6th year in the league. At what point do you say he is what he is, which currently is a bottom pair defenseman. All his "best years" were on crap teams that didn't even sniff the playoffs so they must have not been so great in hindsight. Is it a coincidence that Toronto made the playoffs after he left and Philly hasn't?

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01-21-2014, 09:03 AM
  #291
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Well, it may come down to a decision between trading roster players like the Schenns or futures like Laughton/Morin/Ghost 1st(s).

Pick your poison!

Roll the dice trying to acquire a #1D via trade or stay patient and accept mediocrity for another 2 - 5 of years. There is no guarantee that a rebuild/retooling from within will ever yield a real #1D in the foreseeable future though.

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01-21-2014, 11:14 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
Well, it may come down to a decision between trading roster players like the Schenns or futures like Laughton/Morin/Ghost 1st(s).

Pick your poison!

Roll the dice trying to acquire a #1D via trade or stay patient and accept mediocrity for another 2 - 5 of years. There is no guarantee that a rebuild/retooling from within will ever yield a real #1D in the foreseeable future though.
If we want to acquire a#1 defenseman it would most certainly cost an arm and a leg.

But, it is not necessary to have a #1 defenseman to win a Stanley cup. We just need a couple of really solid defenseman. Sure, it would be nice to have a amazing defenseman like Pietrangelo, Subban, or Keith back there, but I would not consider it necessary. I am perfectly content with being patient.

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01-21-2014, 12:05 PM
  #293
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Ok then how do you fix the blueline if you are not willing to trade a good young player? The UFA market as discussed is weak. Other teams don't trade good young players for scraps. If you wait on the prospects, the flyers will be mired in mediocrity for 3-4 years at best before they start to make an impact if they make an impact at all. As far as the good young piece on the blueline: its true he is only 24 but it is his 6th year in the league. At what point do you say he is what he is, which currently is a bottom pair defenseman. All his "best years" were on crap teams that didn't even sniff the playoffs so they must have not been so great in hindsight. Is it a coincidence that Toronto made the playoffs after he left and Philly hasn't?
Lol what? it has only been 1 1/2 seasons since the JVR for Schenn trade....And Schenn can't have a good season cause his team was bad? Also, L.Schenns value isn't that high right now so I have no idea why you would sell low..it would be better to see if the next season or 2 he can turn it around. B.Schenn was terrible early in the year and has seemingly turned it around. Not sure I would move our 2nd line center who might end up with 50-55 points this season who is only 22. I am not even a big fan of the Schenns but trading them away..you would have to get a pretty damned good dman for them.

So even if you do move them for a dman...you then have to find a slot for the #2 center position on the Flyers. Vinny? Couts? Laughton? Unfortunately you are going to need patience for the Blueline. If Kimmo does retire that leaves a pretty big hole in the defense. As appleyard showed,
Giradi-Coburn
Streit-Grossmann
Schenn-Gus
Isn't a terrible start. Panic trading isn't the way to go, the flyers have a very young team outside of vinny and hartnell. If the team is out of contention for the trade dealine, you move kimmo, grossmann, Mesz, and you try to move vinny. I get you want the blueline fixed, but lets try to be smart about who we move.

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01-21-2014, 12:42 PM
  #294
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Isn't a terrible start. Panic trading isn't the way to go, the flyers have a very young team outside of vinny and hartnell.
This is a really bad misconception. Besides Couturier and B Schenn, the rest of the team is in its mid 20's. That's the prime years for NHL players. Besides the undrafted free agents in that group, they are all have 5 or more years in the league. They are not going to improve much on where they are. Patiently building the blue line will waste their prime years with mediocrity.

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01-22-2014, 12:43 AM
  #295
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Guys, guys, guys, according to this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKBWvPczh4I, Dan Boyle's "favorite team growing up" was the Flyers.

That means he's definitely signing here this offseason, right?


Right?

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01-22-2014, 12:48 AM
  #296
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i hate jumping on other posters but heh?

your post makes my head hurt. Laurisden should play in the NHL if the flyer's charter nose dives into the atlantic.
I mean, they admitted the D sucks. There are people who post similar or worst rosters and are convinced it's the way to go.

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01-22-2014, 07:57 AM
  #297
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Originally Posted by OgbertTheNerd View Post
Guys, guys, guys, according to this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKBWvPczh4I, Dan Boyle's "favorite team growing up" was the Flyers.

That means he's definitely signing here this offseason, right?Right?
If he didn't have to change his identity to leave here, then the edge goes to Bobby Ryan.

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01-22-2014, 08:44 AM
  #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OgbertTheNerd View Post
Guys, guys, guys, according to this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKBWvPczh4I, Dan Boyle's "favorite team growing up" was the Flyers.

That means he's definitely signing here this offseason, right?


Right?
Have the Flyers not enquired about him like 2-3 times over the last 5 years?

1-2 years of Boyle as a Kimmo replacement would not be bad at all... he can still get 40-45 points, run a PP from the point, move play up ice, play 22-23 minutes a night, and be useful on the 2nd PK unit.

But I imagine the demand will be there for him.

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01-22-2014, 09:54 AM
  #299
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He looked slow and out of sorts earlier this season but that was because of the lingering effects of a concussion.

http://www.mercurynews.com/sharks/ci...gering-effects

If he looks strong after the Olympics and in the playoffs I would have no problem with giving him a two-year deal at $6m AAV.

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Brayden Schenn ($2.900m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Michael Raffl ($1.000m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Matt Read ($3.625m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) / Scott Laughton ($0.894m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Dan Boyle ($6.000m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) /
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.850m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,085,595; BONUSES: $212,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $14,405

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01-22-2014, 10:11 AM
  #300
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Quote:
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He looked slow and out of sorts earlier this season but that was because of the lingering effects of a concussion.

http://www.mercurynews.com/sharks/ci...gering-effects

If he looks strong after the Olympics and in the playoffs I would have no problem with giving him a two-year deal at $6m AAV.

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Brayden Schenn ($2.900m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Michael Raffl ($1.000m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Matt Read ($3.625m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) / Scott Laughton ($0.894m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Dan Boyle ($6.000m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) /
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.850m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,085,595; BONUSES: $212,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $14,405
Slot in Girardi or MacDonald as well for ~$5M and move Grossmann... and then somehow get under the cap (yeh right) and it would look pretty beautiful. (could they send down players for a day to be compliant then LTIR and get them back up?)

Only 3 more years of the LTIR Pronger hindrance to go!

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