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Mon., Jan. 20, 2014| Flyers 3 at Islanders 4 (3-2 SOL); Voracek hand injury (post #1)

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01-22-2014, 05:34 AM
  #101
Akanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
I don't even think Clutterbuck meant to slash him honestly. From the camera angle I saw it looked like follow through on an attempt to lift Jake's stick before a pass, or maybe a short little swat with his stick. Certainly didn't look particularly dirty or malicious in intent.
Here's how it happened.



Looks intentional to me.

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01-22-2014, 06:09 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akanon View Post
Here's how it happened.



Looks intentional to me.
Right. It ooks to me like he was slashing intentionally, not neccesarily slashing Jake intentionally. I think he was going for stick and as he went down and Jake skated it ended up hitting on Jake's hand. Clutterbuck is a big hitter, but he's not a particularly dirty guy as far as I have seen and hear. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that play.

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01-22-2014, 07:02 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
why would Ottawa deal Wiercioch? Especially for a UFA and a 2nd rounder. Wiercioch is a good young defenseman on a good contract for this season and next. All they could have to show for it is the 2nd round pick? Ottawa doesnt touch that deal. Flyers would have to send a better younger forward for them to even think about it.
if they move any defenseman for that package its for Chris Phillips.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think Ottawa would do that trade at all. I was just saying that I remember an Ottawa fan saying that they would be interested in that trade. I don't know why they would be, it would seem to be in our favor.

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01-22-2014, 08:26 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
With 1:02 remaining in the third period.
Thanks, MSE. So after I had turned the game off in disgust and resumed actually working at work.

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Old
01-22-2014, 08:39 AM
  #105
FlyRoutine
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This gutless slash didnt only cost us Voracek for the remaining game, the refs didnt even call that clear PP for us at 13 minutes left in the game.
Sure, the Flyers didnt played well in the 3rd, but it would have been much more difficult for the Isles to come back from 1-3, after a PP at 13 minutes left for the Flyers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
I don't even think Clutterbuck meant to slash him honestly. From the camera angle I saw it looked like follow through on an attempt to lift Jake's stick before a pass, or maybe a short little swat with his stick. Certainly didn't look particularly dirty or malicious in intent.
You call that an intended sticklift? That was a clear one-handed slash to the wrist. Do you play hockey yourself? This isnt nowhere near, how to do a clean sticklift.
Watch the Gif again, Clutterbuck never had the chance to get the puck on that play without a foul.

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01-22-2014, 09:08 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Right. It ooks to me like he was slashing intentionally, not neccesarily slashing Jake intentionally. I think he was going for stick and as he went down and Jake skated it ended up hitting on Jake's hand. Clutterbuck is a big hitter, but he's not a particularly dirty guy as far as I have seen and hear. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that play.
It doesnt matter if he have been a dirty player in the past or not.
Clutterbuck is a pro and should know, that he risked an injury on that play on one of our team leading scorers.

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01-22-2014, 09:34 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
Don't get me wrong, I don't think Ottawa would do that trade at all. I was just saying that I remember an Ottawa fan saying that they would be interested in that trade. I don't know why they would be, it would seem to be in our favor.
It was more then one Ott fan, quite a few actually. In fact when originally proposed I don't recall any Sens fans saying no. They said that Downie fit the team well, filled a need, and re-signing him shouldn't be a problem.

I would be all over that deal as a Flyers fan.

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01-22-2014, 10:01 AM
  #108
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Wasn't even called a penalty. ****ing ridiculous.

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01-22-2014, 10:05 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyRoutine View Post
It doesnt matter if he have been a dirty player in the past or not.
Clutterbuck is a pro and should know, that he risked an injury on that play on one of our team leading scorers.
Ah, shenanigans. He was doing his job. "Being a pro" is letting up on hit that can cause a guy serious injury after the pucks already gone. That's the sort of discretion that comes with professionalism. Refusing to take a reaching, one handed swipe at a guys stick while playing defense because there's an outside chance he could hurt his finger is goofy. If these guys are expected to be THAT actively protective of the opposition's health, then they might as well make it a ping pong league. This play and the missed call are not a big deal. Others like it happen all the time. The only thing noteworthy about this time is Jake's bad luck to get an injury.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyRoutine View Post
You call that an intended sticklift? That was a clear one-handed slash to the wrist. Do you play hockey yourself? This isnt nowhere near, how to do a clean sticklift.
Watch the Gif again, Clutterbuck never had the chance to get the puck on that play without a foul.
Yes, I play hockey. I haven't in a little over a year now because I'm busy, but I played several nights a week for years. I'm hoping to get back into it this Fall.

I was recalling the play from memory, and I saw it in real time (without the benefit of a gif or a replay). Clearly that's not a stick lift, but in my original quote I said I remembered it looking like A stick lift or a short swat at Jake's stick. It doesn't look anything alike when you take a short swipe at someone's shaft* and when you try to lift their stick**. So it can be understood from my original quote that I was saying whatever the play was, I remembered it being something fairly innocuous looking (NOT that I remembered the exact play). I could've been clearer about that in my original quote though, for sure.

Now that isn't a short swat Clutterbuck took (clearly my memory failed me in that regard), but it also isn't a malicious, targeted two-hander either. Just look at that clumsy bull*** Clutterbuck did. It doesn't look like he was in enough control of his stick to be accused of targeting Jake's hands, even though that's what he hit.

I'm not defending it as a smart defensive play by Clutterbuck since it has a low percentage of working, and it's a roll of the dice on whether or not it gets called as a stick infraction even if it works out (I've seen that sort of reaching, one handed stick tap get called and get let go). However, to me him trying to make that play isn't indicative of some serious disregard for Jake's safety, let alone malicious intent. Going back to my original point, that's why I don't think there's any need for retribution on Clutterbuck.

* no homo
**still no homo

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01-22-2014, 11:41 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Ah, shenanigans. He was doing his job. "Being a pro" is letting up on hit that can cause a guy serious injury after the pucks already gone. That's the sort of discretion that comes with professionalism. Refusing to take a reaching, one handed swipe at a guys stick while playing defense because there's an outside chance he could hurt his finger is goofy. If these guys are expected to be THAT actively protective of the opposition's health, then they might as well make it a ping pong league. This play and the missed call are not a big deal. Others like it happen all the time. The only thing noteworthy about this time is Jake's bad luck to get an injury.



Yes, I play hockey. I haven't in a little over a year now because I'm busy, but I played several nights a week for years. I'm hoping to get back into it this Fall.

I was recalling the play from memory, and I saw it in real time (without the benefit of a gif or a replay). Clearly that's not a stick lift, but in my original quote I said I remembered it looking like A stick lift or a short swat at Jake's stick. It doesn't look anything alike when you take a short swipe at someone's shaft* and when you try to lift their stick**. So it can be understood from my original quote that I was saying whatever the play was, I remembered it being something fairly innocuous looking (NOT that I remembered the exact play). I could've been clearer about that in my original quote though, for sure.

Now that isn't a short swat Clutterbuck took (clearly my memory failed me in that regard), but it also isn't a malicious, targeted two-hander either. Just look at that clumsy bull*** Clutterbuck did. It doesn't look like he was in enough control of his stick to be accused of targeting Jake's hands, even though that's what he hit.

I'm not defending it as a smart defensive play by Clutterbuck since it has a low percentage of working, and it's a roll of the dice on whether or not it gets called as a stick infraction even if it works out (I've seen that sort of reaching, one handed stick tap get called and get let go). However, to me him trying to make that play isn't indicative of some serious disregard for Jake's safety, let alone malicious intent. Going back to my original point, that's why I don't think there's any need for retribution on Clutterbuck.

* no homo
**still no homo
Maybe it wasnt fully intended to hurt Voracek, but that didnt make that play less dangerous. Yeah, fighting for the puck till the end is ok, but slashes like that doesnt often get major penalties just for fun. Slashes like that could easily lead to at least a broken dislocated finger or worse.
Not long ago a teammate of me got his thumb broken and dislocated because of a slash like that.

It was completely impossible for Clutterbuck to lift Voraceks stick from that reach. Even if he wouldnt have hit Voracek on the wrist, he would have hit Voraceks stick from above and thats a clear penalty too. He knew, that he could not get the puck without a foul and that makes it a dangerous play.
Maybe not fully retaliation worthy, but he clearly risked an injury. Since I cooled down a bit, my complainment mainly goes to te refs. This should have been at the very least a minor penalty. This also could have and should been called as an major penalty too:

Taken from the nhl.com official rules 2012-2013:

Rule 61 Slashing:

61.3 Major Penalty - A major penalty, at the discretion of the Referee based on the severity of the contact, shall be imposed on a player who slashes an opponent. When injury occurs, a major penalty must be assessed under this rule (see 61.5).

Even with just a minor penalty called by the refs, I dont think the Flyers would have collapsed that badly in the last minutes of the game.

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01-22-2014, 11:48 AM
  #111
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it should of been a penalty. missed calls happen. shockingly enough even against our own team.

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01-22-2014, 12:08 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyRoutine View Post
Maybe it wasnt fully intended to hurt Voracek, but that didnt make that play less dangerous. Yeah, fighting for the puck till the end is ok, but slashes like that doesnt often get major penalties just for fun. Slashes like that could easily lead to at least a broken dislocated finger or worse.
Not long ago a teammate of me got his thumb broken and dislocated because of a slash like that.

It was completely impossible for Clutterbuck to lift Voraceks stick from that reach. Even if he wouldnt have hit Voracek on the wrist, he would have hit Voraceks stick from above and thats a clear penalty too. He knew, that he could not get the puck without a foul and that makes it a dangerous play.
Maybe not fully retaliation worthy, but he clearly risked an injury. Since I cooled down a bit, my complainment mainly goes to te refs. This should have been at the very least a minor penalty. This also could have and should been called as an major penalty too:

Taken from the nhl.com official rules 2012-2013:

Rule 61 Slashing:

61.3 Major Penalty - A major penalty, at the discretion of the Referee based on the severity of the contact, shall be imposed on a player who slashes an opponent. When injury occurs, a major penalty must be assessed under this rule (see 61.5).

Even with just a minor penalty called by the refs, I dont think the Flyers would have collapsed that badly in the last minutes of the game.
I see your points and acknowledge their merit. At any amateur level, the risk factor weighs far more heavily than the play's effect on the game, since guys have jobs to go to and need their health. At the pro-level, aside from career-ending types of plays, I think it should be different. Just pay hard and with in the rules, if they other guy gets hurt, that's the game.

Really in the end, we agree it was a low reward, high risk thing for Clutterbuck to do from a defensive stand point. We agree it was not really a legitimate defensive technique and that it was a penalty even if it worked (I maintain that there's a good chance it would've gone uncalled, and what ended up happening supports that). We agree the refs should've called it. And it sounds like we both agree now that it was just one of many incidents of poor judgement in the heat of the moment, and Clutterbuck can probably get away without having his face beat in . . . so after some discussion, I think we pretty much agree. Good talk.

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01-22-2014, 01:02 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
I see your points and acknowledge their merit. At any amateur level, the risk factor weighs far more heavily than the play's effect on the game, since guys have jobs to go to and need their health. At the pro-level, aside from career-ending types of plays, I think it should be different. Just pay hard and with in the rules, if they other guy gets hurt, that's the game.

Really in the end, we agree it was a low reward, high risk thing for Clutterbuck to do from a defensive stand point. We agree it was not really a legitimate defensive technique and that it was a penalty even if it worked (I maintain that there's a good chance it would've gone uncalled, and what ended up happening supports that). We agree the refs should've called it. And it sounds like we both agree now that it was just one of many incidents of poor judgement in the heat of the moment, and Clutterbuck can probably get away without having his face beat in . . . so after some discussion, I think we pretty much agree. Good talk.
Yeah, I think we have a point. Peace bro

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