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2013-2014 Rangers Prospects Thread *Part II* (Player Stats in Post #1; Updated 1/31)

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01-18-2014, 02:54 PM
  #601
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I know I'm only one of a handful of people who seem to think he's still a legitimate prospect, but Fogarty had another solid game last night against Lake Superior. Didn't put any points on the board, but was engaged physically and incredibly solid defensively. He's also demonstrating a solid ability to change speeds on the rush. There were a few shifts where he took the puck in alone against two LSS players and was able to slow down and then beat them around the outside with a quick burst of speed. Had a couple chances he couldn't bury, and also set up Herr and Lucia with a couple quality chances in the 2nd period.

If the offense doesn't come, I still like his chances as a big, defensive center with an edge down the line. However, I'm still confident that the offense will develop.

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01-18-2014, 04:25 PM
  #602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I know I'm only one of a handful of people who seem to think he's still a legitimate prospect, but Fogarty had another solid game last night against Lake Superior. Didn't put any points on the board, but was engaged physically and incredibly solid defensively. He's also demonstrating a solid ability to change speeds on the rush. There were a few shifts where he took the puck in alone against two LSS players and was able to slow down and then beat them around the outside with a quick burst of speed. Had a couple chances he couldn't bury, and also set up Herr and Lucia with a couple quality chances in the 2nd period.

If the offense doesn't come, I still like his chances as a big, defensive center with an edge down the line. However, I'm still confident that the offense will develop.

At the age of (almost) 21, we expect more than a single goal. Even a defensive player who has an NHL future should have enough skill, speed and on-ice awareness to produce at the collegiate level.

The average team in college is worse than the average team in the ECHL. He's at an age where if he went the junior route, he'd be playing pro hockey now. I suspect he wouldn't produce more than someone like Nicholls is, probably less.

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01-18-2014, 04:45 PM
  #603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I know I'm only one of a handful of people who seem to think he's still a legitimate prospect, but Fogarty had another solid game last night against Lake Superior. Didn't put any points on the board, but was engaged physically and incredibly solid defensively. He's also demonstrating a solid ability to change speeds on the rush. There were a few shifts where he took the puck in alone against two LSS players and was able to slow down and then beat them around the outside with a quick burst of speed. Had a couple chances he couldn't bury, and also set up Herr and Lucia with a couple quality chances in the 2nd period.

If the offense doesn't come, I still like his chances as a big, defensive center with an edge down the line. However, I'm still confident that the offense will develop.
I don't see how one can be confident that his offense will develop. I think he can be a nice 4th liner in the future, though.

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01-18-2014, 08:26 PM
  #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I know I'm only one of a handful of people who seem to think he's still a legitimate prospect, but Fogarty had another solid game last night against Lake Superior. Didn't put any points on the board, but was engaged physically and incredibly solid defensively. He's also demonstrating a solid ability to change speeds on the rush. There were a few shifts where he took the puck in alone against two LSS players and was able to slow down and then beat them around the outside with a quick burst of speed. Had a couple chances he couldn't bury, and also set up Herr and Lucia with a couple quality chances in the 2nd period.

If the offense doesn't come, I still like his chances as a big, defensive center with an edge down the line. However, I'm still confident that the offense will develop.
ND-4 LSS-2
Fogarty with 2 goals; He's young and still has a chance to improve his game

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01-19-2014, 03:07 AM
  #605
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Duclair netted his 37 goal last night.

Tsmbellini scored his second.

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01-19-2014, 11:07 AM
  #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
At the age of (almost) 21, we expect more than a single goal. Even a defensive player who has an NHL future should have enough skill, speed and on-ice awareness to produce at the collegiate level.

The average team in college is worse than the average team in the ECHL. He's at an age where if he went the junior route, he'd be playing pro hockey now. I suspect he wouldn't produce more than someone like Nicholls is, probably less.
It's a waste of time to say a player should be producing X at level Y by age Z. I've never bought into that, and I'm not about to start. Fogarty is a 2nd year NCAA player who is showing signs of improvement in every area. That's all I need to look at. Saying he'd be a lousy ECHL player is pointless because he didn't go the CHL route. There's no telling how his development curve may have changed by playing Junior hockey instead of college hockey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I don't see how one can be confident that his offense will develop. I think he can be a nice 4th liner in the future, though.
Because when I watch him play, I see that he generates several chances per game; both for himself and for his teammates.

It doesn't matter. We all have our opinion.

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01-19-2014, 11:20 AM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Not a great game, those kids were fighting frozen elements. No really, their jerseys were actually frozen, that's Minnesota for ya, you betcha.

Skjei was ok. That's my new mantra it seems. I still don't see any one jump out between Skjei, Reilly, Marshall and Brodzinski, all have been their best D on any given night. Well, at least in the 10 or more games I've seen.

The player of the game in my eyes was Matt Tomkins, Ohio State goalie who made 26 saves and let in a fluke goal. He made some nice looking saves while making it look easy. Good positioning. And of course he was a 2012 7th rounder selected by the Hawks. Those useless 7th rounders, they mean nothing i'm told
All of the outdoor games aren't great games. The novelty of playing outside wears off and then game begins. When it is snowing,it takes away from the bad hockey. The Rangers have two outdoor games coming up. 4 big points on the table. It will be cold. Its supposed to be very cold next Sunday and it is expected to snow that week. The NHL looks at the outdoor game as a cash grab.

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01-19-2014, 02:21 PM
  #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Because when I watch him play, I see that he generates several chances per game; both for himself and for his teammates.

It doesn't matter. We all have our opinion.
I don't see it. I think you have to really look for it to see it, I guess. His offense is just so below-average compared to what it should have developed into.

I loved the draft pick at the time. Was stoked when we picked him up. But I've been disappointed in him offensively since his lackluster BCHL stint.

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01-20-2014, 07:01 AM
  #609
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Any time I see Fogarty play he looks like he doesn't give a crap. His instincts suck. Maybe it's just coincidence that the three or four times I watch him a year turns out to be a bad game.

I watch them away from the puck. I always have. Maybe the AHL will be a fresh start for him.

He's a role player on a decent college team. That's not good considering his draft position. He's already been branded as a defensive guy but he's not a hard-working guy who will wear you down.

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01-20-2014, 07:16 AM
  #610
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Originally Posted by nrf83 View Post
ND-4 LSS-2
Fogarty with 2 goals; He's young and still has a chance to improve his game
Even Brian Boyle had offensive scoring numbers college... if Fogarty becomes an AHL regular player ill be shocked...

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01-20-2014, 08:00 AM
  #611
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Fogarty was injured and missed almost all of first half of season; against LSS he was skating hard and going to the net. Both goals were scored by him crashing the net. He's only a sophomore and needs more playing time to develop. I like his play and so does Coach Jackson

http://www.und.com/sports/m-hockey/r...011814aac.html


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01-21-2014, 08:06 AM
  #612
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Skapski was drafted as a 19 year old, has played 4 years in WHL. does he get signed this off-season, or go back for an overage year?

especially considering the current goalies in the organization and who, if any, will be back next year.

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01-21-2014, 08:06 AM
  #613
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I used to think his ceiling would amount to a Rucchin type player, I know he's young but that projection has gone down to a "I don't know what". I'm afraid he's a tweener in this increasingly specialized age, not quite fast enough to do A, not tough enough to do B, and lacking the hands to do C. And if he progresses enough in these broad skill sets to become useful, it won't be at a level to help us. Unless we trade him, we'll prob take a flyer on an ELC in a year or two and have him play it out to see if his game somehow translates better to a higher level which happens from time to time.

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01-21-2014, 08:43 AM
  #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frisland View Post
Skapski was drafted as a 19 year old, has played 4 years in WHL. does he get signed this off-season, or go back for an overage year?

especially considering the current goalies in the organization and who, if any, will be back next year.
I'd wager that he signs this year. He's having a strong season, and we need some goalies under contract.

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01-21-2014, 08:57 AM
  #615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I don't see it. I think you have to really look for it to see it, I guess. His offense is just so below-average compared to what it should have developed into.

I loved the draft pick at the time. Was stoked when we picked him up. But I've been disappointed in him offensively since his lackluster BCHL stint.
What says he has to develop an offensive game to make the NHL though? To be a 4th liner with his size, face-off skills (which are above average) and hockey IQ all he needs to do is score 15 points a year ala Dominic Moore. Still a valuable player.

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01-21-2014, 09:03 AM
  #616
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
Even Brian Boyle had offensive scoring numbers college... if Fogarty becomes an AHL regular player ill be shocked...
Totally different players. Boyle was touted as an offensive power forward. He developed his defensive game later in his career. Fogarty is already a good defensive center. That's a skill as well.

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01-21-2014, 09:13 AM
  #617
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Dominic Moore's Sophomore season: 43 points in 32 games. (Jr 29 in 32, Sr 51 in 34)
Jeff Halpern's Sophomore season: 31 points in 33 games. (Jr 53 in 36, Sr 44 in 33)

Any way you slice it, it is not looking good for Fogarty. And I loved the pick at the time. And think stats are often overrated. But ya gotta show SOMETHING. After Tynan leaves he has to step up and have a monster 35+ point Junior season to have any hope for an ELC.

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01-21-2014, 09:31 AM
  #618
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The one guy who comes to mind who was an effective NHLer after not being a strong offensive player in the NCAA was Darrel Powe.

He was the exact same player in college. Just bounced around everywhere without much rhyme or reason.

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01-21-2014, 07:04 PM
  #619
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I'd wager that he signs this year. He's having a strong season, and we need some goalies under contract.
I agree. Stajcer and Missiaen as next on the depth chart after Talbot is kind of scary.


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01-23-2014, 10:08 AM
  #620
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Anyone been watching Nieves? He only has 1 goal and 7 assists so far this year. What's the deal? He was Michigan's third leading scorer behind Guptill and Treais last year, and as a true freshman. Sophomore slump?

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01-23-2014, 11:09 AM
  #621
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
What says he has to develop an offensive game to make the NHL though? To be a 4th liner with his size, face-off skills (which are above average) and hockey IQ all he needs to do is score 15 points a year ala Dominic Moore. Still a valuable player.
Exactly. People complain that we don't develop 4th liners, but if a prospect doesn't score at the lower levels, he's a bust. If they score at the lower levels but don't as a pro, they are a bust.

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01-23-2014, 11:13 AM
  #622
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Dominic Moore's Sophomore season: 43 points in 32 games. (Jr 29 in 32, Sr 51 in 34)
Jeff Halpern's Sophomore season: 31 points in 33 games. (Jr 53 in 36, Sr 44 in 33)

Any way you slice it, it is not looking good for Fogarty. And I loved the pick at the time. And think stats are often overrated. But ya gotta show SOMETHING. After Tynan leaves he has to step up and have a monster 35+ point Junior season to have any hope for an ELC.
Ryan Reaves:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=80339

St. Louis recently gave him a 4 year extension.

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01-23-2014, 11:25 AM
  #623
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Exactly. People complain that we don't develop 4th liners, but if a prospect doesn't score at the lower levels, he's a bust. If they score at the lower levels but don't as a pro, they are a bust.

The point isn't for him to produce offense. But when you have NHL ability, you wind up during at the lower level.

Even if you are a purely defensive player, you have to skate at an NHL level. That is faster than the NCAA level skating, and produces points there.

Even as a defensive player, you need NHL level on-ice awareness. This produces points at the NCAA level.

Passing, getting the puck along the boards, etc, if done at a superior level to your opposition, produces points.

He's still a forward, not a Noreau-type defenseman. An NHL forward can score against college kids. You put Carcillo in college and and will be a great power forward.

Foggy isn't an NHLer yet, so we sound temper our expectations, but the skills he will need in order to be an NHLer should result in some points in the NCAA.

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01-23-2014, 11:31 AM
  #624
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Exactly. People complain that we don't develop 4th liners, but if a prospect doesn't score at the lower levels, he's a bust. If they score at the lower levels but don't as a pro, they are a bust.
so basically Fogarty is another player just like Blair Betts?? would that be a fair comparison???

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01-23-2014, 11:31 AM
  #625
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Anyone been watching Nieves? He only has 1 goal and 7 assists so far this year. What's the deal? He was Michigan's third leading scorer behind Guptill and Treais last year, and as a true freshman. Sophomore slump?
STH here.

Very low shooting %, and he isn't on the top line. Even when he wasn't on "the" top line last year, his line was asked to do most of the offensive lifting.

He still shows promise, but a lot of players that had mediocre years last year for Michigan stepped up big time this year. He's kind of buried now, much like Kreider was his first two years at BC.

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