HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Arizona Coyotes
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Game 50: Phoenix Coyotes @ Calgary Flames 1/22/14| 7:30PM

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-23-2014, 09:13 AM
  #276
JTPoni23
Swiss For 2 Weeks...
 
JTPoni23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Barrie, Ontario
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 772
vCash: 500
Doesn't really help that we literally have the worst offence in the league the past 8 games. Obviously Smith is playing average this season overall. But even if he played in his 2012 form these past 8 games, would it really make a difference with how bad our defence and offence compared to back then is?

JTPoni23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 09:40 AM
  #277
rt
Powers Gold Label
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: County Cork
Country: Ireland
Posts: 53,529
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Smith didn't lose the game for us. It's just we wouldn't have been any worse off with any of the 800kay/yr goalies in the league tonight. Or any night this season, so far. It's not that he's the worst goalie in the world and an absolute travesty on ice, it's just that his pay is about five times higher than his production. Luis ridiculously bloated would be much better used plugging other holes. And there are plenty of other holes.
Best typo ever. My autocorrect is disturbing. Luis? Haha.

__________________
All of it is Dave Tippett's fault. He's the worst.
rt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 09:44 AM
  #278
zz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,848
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Smith didn't lose the game for us. It's just we wouldn't have been any worse off with any of the 800kay/yr goalies in the league tonight. Or any night this season, so far. It's not that he's the worst goalie in the world and an absolute travesty on ice, it's just that his pay is about five times higher than his production. Luis ridiculously bloated would be much better used plugging other holes. And there are plenty of other holes.
Exactly. I would have no problem with Smith at $ 3M / yr.

zz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 09:56 AM
  #279
zz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,848
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPoni23 View Post
You mean the one where Stajan hit one off the ladies tee and because we are lacking physical defencemen Smith was screened and didn't even see the shot? Or the one where the worst 2 on 1 defence in the history of the league happened?
Smith could see the puck all the way on all 3 goals. Look closely at the replay. That 'screen' on the third goal was 6 feet away from him. No ugly goal, no unlucky bounce, no unfortunate rebound. Can most goalies stop all 3? Of course not. Should an elite goalie be expected to save 1 or 2 out of those 3? Yes. Absolutely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPoni23 View Post
He made 5 big saves in a row to keep it a one goal game in the second, and then our defensive coverage came through again and gave Stajan all the time in the world to tee it up.
How many times did Karri Rämö save the Flames' bacon? We could have switched goalies and would not have fared worse. Maybe better, who knows, but definitely not worse. Karri Ramo makes $ 2.8M / yr. That's about how much Mike Smith is worth. I would have no problem with him being our starter at that price. The guy's just an average NHL goalie paid like a HOFer.


Last edited by zz: 01-23-2014 at 10:49 AM.
zz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 09:58 AM
  #280
aj8000
Registered User
 
aj8000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,180
vCash: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenician View Post
Why are Canadians so into the 50/50? 55,000 tonight and over 20k most phoenix vs Canada games
Lottery/gambling winnings are tax free in Canada unlike the US

aj8000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 10:26 AM
  #281
JTPoni23
Swiss For 2 Weeks...
 
JTPoni23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Barrie, Ontario
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zz View Post
Smith could see the puck all the way on all 3 goals. Look closely at the replay. That 'screen' on the third goal was 6 feet away from him. No ugly goal, no unlucky bounce, no unfortunate rebound. Can most goalies stop all 3? Of course not. Should an elite goalie be expected to save 1 or 2 out of those 3? Yes. Absolutely.



How many times did Karri Rämö save the Flames' bacon? We could have switched goalies and would not have fared worse. Maybe better, who knows, but definitely not worse. Karri Ramo makes $ 2.8M / yr. That's about how much Mike Smith is worth. I would have no problem with him being our started at that price. The guy's just an average NHL goalie paid like a HOFer.
I'm not arguing the contract bit. Everyone knows he's overpaid. But what "elite" goalie in the league today plays behind a combination of terrible offense and defense like ours? The Kings don't score many goals, but their defensive structure is superb and I rarely see them give up as many quality chances as we do. The Hawks have a terrible defensive structure, but they score their way out of a defensive blackhole.

We have neither situation here.

The Buffalo Sabres are currently scoring at a higher pace than we are the past couple games. Couple that with a defence core that is praised league wide but in reality is terrible in it's own zone, and you get the embarrassing performances we've seen lately. At least in the first part of the season our offense masked our defence.

JTPoni23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 10:34 AM
  #282
Etch
Relegate the Oilers
 
Etch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Moncton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 984
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPoni23 View Post
I'm not arguing the contract bit. Everyone knows he's overpaid. But what "elite" goalie in the league today plays behind a combination of terrible offense and defense like ours? The Kings don't score many goals, but their defensive structure is superb and I rarely see them give up as many quality chances as we do. The Hawks have a terrible defensive structure, but they score their way out of a defensive blackhole.

We have neither situation here.

The Buffalo Sabres are currently scoring at a higher pace than we are the past couple games. Couple that with a defence core that is praised league wide but in reality is terrible in it's own zone, and you get the embarrassing performances we've seen lately. At least in the first part of the season our offense masked our defence.
I'll agree some games we've been soft on D, but I still think an above average goaltender would give a lot more points in the standings right now. I'd argue the Leafs didn't get more than 1-2 quality scoring chance and still threw 4 past Smith. There have been games where a 2 on 1 against was our biggest defensive lapse.
If it's even got a hint of seeming like a scoring chance Smith just seems to let er in sometimes

Last night he did make some decent saves for sure. I'm not happy with the goals that he let in. Overall he's definitely had much worse games. Ramo still significantly outplayed him in the end.

Etch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 10:51 AM
  #283
zz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,848
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPoni23 View Post
I'm not arguing the contract bit.
Then you and I are on the same page. I don't mind Smith being in net. I'm just pissed off at how much money he's costing the team and what we could be doing with that cash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPoni23 View Post
Everyone knows he's overpaid.
I'm not sure about that.

zz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 10:52 AM
  #284
rt
Powers Gold Label
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: County Cork
Country: Ireland
Posts: 53,529
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zz View Post
Then you and I are on the same page. I don't mind Smith being in net. I'm just pissed off at how much money he's costing the team and what we could be doing with that cash.



I'm not sure about that.
Agreed. He's not terrible. He's terribly overpaid.

rt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 12:30 PM
  #285
ck26
Alcoholab User
 
ck26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Coyotes Bandwagon
Country: United States
Posts: 10,534
vCash: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Agreed. He's not terrible. He's terribly overpaid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Smith is garbage.
What a difference 9 hours makes haha ... is this why we shouldn't take you seriously under any circumstances?

ck26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 12:46 PM
  #286
Grimes
Registered User
 
Grimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tippet's Doghouse
Posts: 2,627
vCash: 500
Yotes are going to have to play above .500 hockey to make the playoffs. If they win half the remaining games they will end the season at 87 points. Not enough. Do or die time. Also, because of the large break in Feb aren't they currently in the time frame which they usually go on a tear? Hopefully if they miss the playoffs this will be seen more as a transitional year.

Grimes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 01:50 PM
  #287
ctwin22
Go Desert Dogs
 
ctwin22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,680
vCash: 500
New owners can't afford to miss the playoffs, GMDM has to start making a push by getting us another scorer.

ctwin22 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 03:00 PM
  #288
cobra427
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zz View Post
Smith could see the puck all the way on all 3 goals. Look closely at the replay. That 'screen' on the third goal was 6 feet away from him. No ugly goal, no unlucky bounce, no unfortunate rebound. Can most goalies stop all 3? Of course not. Should an elite goalie be expected to save 1 or 2 out of those 3? Yes. Absolutely.



How many times did Karri Rämö save the Flames' bacon? We could have switched goalies and would not have fared worse. Maybe better, who knows, but definitely not worse. Karri Ramo makes $ 2.8M / yr. That's about how much Mike Smith is worth. I would have no problem with him being our starter at that price. The guy's just an average NHL goalie paid like a HOFer.
Their goalie outplayed our goalie, end of story. I am not saying this loss is Smith's fault. This is really a simple analysis, same for 90% of our games, Smith has to be the better goalie period.

cobra427 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 03:04 PM
  #289
BUX7PHX
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,286
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Ice 11 View Post
I don't think Smith is bad. His numbers look pretty good and are not far from 11-12 Smith numbers. I think the line shuffling needs to stop. And I do not know what happened to this team but sometimes they look like a bunch players lost and not sure what to do. While the other team skates around them.

I think Yandle should not join the rush as much. He makes great plays from the point and he is good at bringing the puck in but sometimes it seems like he gets cocky.
This.

When Yandle is reigned in, he has fewer points, but does anyone notice that the TEAM succeeds?

2009-10: Yandle - 41 points, Team - 107 points; nearly took out Detroit in 1st round, and still, IMHO, the best Coyotes team that we have had, hands-down (put Smith circa 2011-12 season in net and we win the Cup)
2010-11: Yandle - 59 points, Team - 99 points; embarassed by Detroit in 1st round, although there were a lot of distractions during that point in the season (although I don't think anyone could say that we were true "contenders" that year)
2011-12: Yandle - 43 points, Team - 97 points; first Division title in history and run to WCF
2012-13: Yandle - 30 points, Team - 51 points; Yandle leads team in points and we miss the playoffs
2013-14: Yandle - 35 points, Team - 55 points; clinging to 9th side and still trying to move up in standings

I understand it is foolish for me to say that when Yandle has a good year, we fail. But at the same time, these results are also hard to ignore. And that's why I've advocated getting a return on Yandle - he is offense, offense, offense, and eventually that path leads to trouble (whether him making defensive gaffes or creating scenarios where our offensive play becomes unbalanced). Get me a more solid defensive D-man who can put up about 25-30 points in a season and a top 6 forward for him. I truly believe that we become much more dangerous that way.

BUX7PHX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 03:07 PM
  #290
BUX7PHX
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,286
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewYotes View Post
Our PP would be garbage without Yandle. Until somebody comes up with a replacement puck mover his positives outweigh the negatives. And no, not even OEL can do it. The only guy I've seen close to doing it as well and as consistently as Yands is Ribs.
Of course, Yandle has been everything about our PP, and Newell Brown (who coached a Canuck PP to a 1st and 5th PP% in 2010-11 and 2011-12) has had nothing to do with it.

Look at where Vancouver is this year in PP% (similar players playing) without him.

BUX7PHX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 03:37 PM
  #291
CC96
Serious Offender
 
CC96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Country: United States
Posts: 17,661
vCash: 500
I thought Yandle and Stone were a lot worse than Smith last night.

CC96 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 03:41 PM
  #292
zz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,848
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobra427 View Post
Their goalie outplayed our goalie, end of story. I am not saying this loss is Smith's fault. This is really a simple analysis, same for 90% of our games, Smith has to be the better goalie period.
That sums it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CC96 View Post
I thought Yandle and Stone were a lot worse than Smith last night.
That's beside the point. Yandle also had many games this season where he was again 'super Yandle'. You can argue whether he's worth the gamble, but as far as offensive d-men go, there is no longer any doubt the guy's elite. ANd if we change our mind regarding Yandle, I am 100% positive we could trade the guy without taking salary back.

Stone's contract is $ 1M, and he's still got upside. Can easily be traded as well.

Smith? Not so much. We're stuck.

zz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 03:42 PM
  #293
middlebrook
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 18
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC96 View Post
I thought Yandle and Stone were a lot worse than Smith last night.
I agree completely with this

middlebrook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 04:01 PM
  #294
CC96
Serious Offender
 
CC96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Country: United States
Posts: 17,661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zz View Post
That's beside the point. Yandle also had many games this season where he was again 'super Yandle'. You can argue whether he's worth the gamble, but as far as offensive d-men go, there is no longer any doubt the guy's elite. ANd if we change our mind regarding Yandle, I am 100% positive we could trade the guy without taking salary back.

Stone's contract is $ 1M, and he's still got upside. Can easily be traded as well.

Smith? Not so much. We're stuck.
I hold Yandle accountable the same way I hold Smith. Smith's also had games where he's played outstanding this season, but that does not give him a free pass to play poorly in other games.

Yandle is also one of the highest paid players on the team, he shouldn't get a free pass for not playing well over a stretch of games, because he scored against the Oilers. I don't mind if he has a bad pinch here or a turnover there, but he's looked like a trainwreck defensively over the last 6 or 7 games. I'm sure he'll snap out of it soon enough, but he's got to step it up, along with a number of players right now.

CC96 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 04:22 PM
  #295
rt
Powers Gold Label
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: County Cork
Country: Ireland
Posts: 53,529
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ck26 View Post
What a difference 9 hours makes haha ... is this why we shouldn't take you seriously under any circumstances?
Just extra sore immediately after a loss. I go half way WJF each time. Just half. Haha.

rt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 06:01 PM
  #296
cobra427
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC96 View Post
I hold Yandle accountable the same way I hold Smith. Smith's also had games where he's played outstanding this season, but that does not give him a free pass to play poorly in other games.

Yandle is also one of the highest paid players on the team, he shouldn't get a free pass for not playing well over a stretch of games, because he scored against the Oilers. I don't mind if he has a bad pinch here or a turnover there, but he's looked like a trainwreck defensively over the last 6 or 7 games. I'm sure he'll snap out of it soon enough, but he's got to step it up, along with a number of players right now.
I don't think he should get a free pass either. I think with the team struggles, key D being out, and the Olympic snub, Keith has maybe been trying to do too much lately. Yandle is not the best D man, we all know that, and has had some more noticeable lapses lately. I do think the way I would measure Yandle as a player is this: How many plays does he make that wind up in the back of the opponents net. This would be goals and primary assists. Versus, how many mistakes does he make that wind up in our net. I think he makes way more plays that lead to points then he gives up.

Last nights mistake was not good but not near as bad as Stone misplaying the 2 on 1 after it. Dmo or Z would not have misplayed a 2 on 1. I think he has been our best all around player this year. If Yandle is out, how would we ever score more then a goal a game? Think about that for a minute...

cobra427 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 06:45 PM
  #297
GiveAFlyingPuck
Good Fan/Bad Fan
 
GiveAFlyingPuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gila River Arena
Country: United States
Posts: 4,143
vCash: 0
Five for Howling posted this on facebook:

Coyotes through 50 games: (10/11): 57 points (11/12): 52 points (13/14): 55 points. Team needs to play better but don't give up on 'em yet.


Maybe there is still hope. Going to come down to injuries, I think.

GiveAFlyingPuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 06:53 PM
  #298
Grimes
Registered User
 
Grimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tippet's Doghouse
Posts: 2,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Five for Howling posted this on facebook:

Coyotes through 50 games: (10/11): 57 points (11/12): 52 points (13/14): 55 points. Team needs to play better but don't give up on 'em yet.


Maybe there is still hope. Going to come down to injuries, I think.
This is reassuring. They are still going to have to play lights out though.

Grimes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 06:54 PM
  #299
AndrewYotes
Registered User
 
AndrewYotes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 4,071
vCash: 500
They usually go streaking in February. Remember WCF season. 11 straight

AndrewYotes is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2014, 07:04 PM
  #300
GiveAFlyingPuck
Good Fan/Bad Fan
 
GiveAFlyingPuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gila River Arena
Country: United States
Posts: 4,143
vCash: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewYotes View Post
They usually go streaking in February. Remember WCF season. 11 straight
Not sure we'll need that. 8 would be nice. That and playing .500 the rest of the way gets us to 95 points and should be enough to grab a wild card spot.

55pts + 16pts = 71pts

71pts + 24pts = 95 pts

GiveAFlyingPuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:55 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2017 All Rights Reserved.