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Old
01-04-2014, 02:20 PM
  #476
JDinkalage Morgoone
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Sorry, I was thinking of Andrei Markov.
Oh well Markov is another guy I'd sign if the term was right. He's still a great D.

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01-07-2014, 10:17 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by FlyingPhilly View Post

I am done talking about the skills LSchenn has and doesn't have. He is a defensive d-man with limited skills, that is the fact that I have come to terms with. We should just agree to disagree.

The worst thing about the trade was we could have had Yandle for JVR.
Yandle for JVR is more of an even trade than Luke Schenn for JVR.
So, when you see Luke on the ice contributing nothing offensively,
just remember our boneheaded GM decided Schenn was a better acquistion than Yandle.

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01-07-2014, 10:22 AM
  #478
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There is no way that TimmyP article was correct. It couldn't have been a 1 for 1 trade, and has no legs from any other sources (at the time, Meltzer had reported Flyers had inquired and been told it would've taken a large package to pry him out of Phoenix.)

Holmgren's certainly got his faults, but valuing Luke Schenn over Yandle is not one of them. There are no legitimate sources backing that up.

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01-07-2014, 10:46 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
The worst thing about the trade was we could have had Yandle for JVR.
Yandle for JVR is more of an even trade than Luke Schenn for JVR.
So, when you see Luke on the ice contributing nothing offensively,
just remember our boneheaded GM decided Schenn was a better acquistion than Yandle.
Yes, the Flyers could have had Yandle for JVR

and Schenn

and Couturier


The rumored package that Maloney was asking for, which was reported by more reputable sources than Tim Panaccio, was much larger than a 1 for 1 swap. Look up Elliote Friedman and Bill Meltzer's report.

Homer has had his faults and questionable moves, but at least make sure you're getting on him about the correct ones, eh?

What you and other people are doing is silly. The Flyers could've had Yandle for JVR (negating all the other parts involved.) Let's see, the Flyers acquired Chris Pronger for Luca Sbisa! Don't mind the other parts.

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01-07-2014, 10:51 AM
  #480
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
The worst thing about the trade was we could have had Yandle for JVR.
99% of people believe this rumor is false.

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01-07-2014, 11:02 AM
  #481
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I'm also of the opinion that the Yotes wanted more than just JVR for Yandle but again it is possible they conceded at some point and were willing to do a 1 for 1. Right now everybody is speculating and we don't know for sure but if it is ever corroborated that we could have had Yandle for JVR straight up I will be pretty annoyed. It is clear that we undersold JVR. I always wanted to at least package him if we were going to give up on him like we did. Again, I do think that Holmgren had tunnel vision with Schenn and just wanted a stay at home D man with a right hand shot to help insulate Bryz. This is why it is plausible that Holmgren may have thought Schenn was the better choice. It just fell in line with him and Snider wanting to tighten up the D around Bryz and also calling for Lavi to change his system to be more defensive. It all kind of backfired particularly last season...especially when they let Carle go and it was obvious we needed a PMD. Both Carle and JVR were more of a fit with Lavi's style than Schenn although Schenn had a good year...obviously this year he has regressed for whatever reason.

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01-07-2014, 11:04 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
I'm also of the opinion that the Yotes wanted more than just JVR for Yandle but again it is possible they conceded at some point and were willing to do a 1 for 1. Right now everybody is speculating and we don't know for sure but if it is ever corroborated that we could have had Yandle for JVR straight up I will be pretty annoyed. It is clear that we undersold JVR. I always wanted to at least package him if we were going to give up on him like we did. Again, I do think that Holmgren had tunnel vision with Schenn and just wanted a stay at home D man with a right hand shot to help insulate Bryz. This is why it is plausible that Holmgren may have thought Schenn was the better choice. It just fell in line with him and Snider wanting to tighten up the D around Bryz and also calling for Lavi to change his system to be more defensive. It all kind of backfired particularly last season...especially when they let Carle go and it was obvious we needed a PMD. Both Carle and JVR were more of a fit with Lavi's style than Schenn although Schenn had a good year...obviously this year he has regressed for whatever reason.
If the Yandle for JVR was ever substantiated where it couldn't be refuted, I agree, I'd be livid. But I can't see any way that this would ever happen. Seems ridiculous given JVR had never proven anything and was as streaky as they come and Yandle was already establishing himself as one of the top PMD in the league.

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01-08-2014, 01:24 AM
  #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stizzle View Post
99% of people believe this rumor is false.
That is a good thing for Holmgren that fans do not believe we could have had Yandle instead of Schenn.

I am of the opinion that the Yotes might have accepted an offer of JVR for Yandle if Holmgren had been willing to deal.
Initially of course they wanted JVR+ for Yandle, but I would think to deal Yandle for JVR if the deal was offered.
JVR was the 2nd overall pick in the draft, Yandle was only a 2nd round pick, and they still had OEL and Rundblad.

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01-08-2014, 01:44 AM
  #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
That is a good thing for Holmgren that fans do not believe we could have had Yandle instead of Schenn.

I am of the opinion that the Yotes might have accepted an offer of JVR for Yandle if Holmgren had been willing to deal.
Friedman & Metzler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Panotch as far as credibility goes. The only people who would believe this are people looking for something to bash homer about & would 99% of the other times ignore anything that comes out of that buffoon's mouth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Initially of course they wanted JVR+ for Yandle, but I would think to deal Yandle for JVR if the deal was offered.
If his price was just that then he would have been moved by now if not to the Flyers then another team would have given up something comparable to that. Phoenix really has no need to move Yandle unless of an overpayment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
JVR was the 2nd overall pick in the draft, Yandle was only a 2nd round pick, and they still had OEL and Rundblad.
Yandle was a 4th round pick by the way & what does where they drafted come into play when getting traded? Both guys were in the NHL long enough at that point to where it didn't matter anymore. The value was based off their play at that point & Yandle's was significantly more than JVR's.

Runblad isn't very good by the way & still stuck in the minors. He was passed on the depth chart by the younger Connor Murphy earlier this year. The guy is a non factor & still living off his draft status to this point.

Yandle is very much a big part of Phoenix's team back then & now. He's the most talented offensive player on their roster. Their not going to just give him away for cheap.

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01-08-2014, 08:52 AM
  #485
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DoF has no idea what he is talking about.

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Old
01-08-2014, 09:43 AM
  #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
That is a good thing for Holmgren that fans do not believe we could have had Yandle instead of Schenn.

I am of the opinion that the Yotes might have accepted an offer of JVR for Yandle if Holmgren had been willing to deal.
Initially of course they wanted JVR+ for Yandle, but I would think to deal Yandle for JVR if the deal was offered.
JVR was the 2nd overall pick in the draft, Yandle was only a 2nd round pick, and they still had OEL and Rundblad.
I missed you. Welcome back.

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01-08-2014, 09:53 PM
  #487
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Anyone (this probably means you Appleyard) know where there is a site that allows for manipulatable advanced data? Looking to see Luke progression this season. I sense he is playing vastly better hockey over the last several weeks than before.

Frankly, the last few games he's been exactly what you would have wanted when he was drafted. A true shutdown defender.

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01-08-2014, 09:57 PM
  #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Anyone (this probably means you Appleyard) know where there is a site that allows for manipulatable advanced data? Looking to see Luke progression this season. I sense he is playing vastly better hockey over the last several weeks than before.

Frankly, the last few games he's been exactly what you would have wanted when he was drafted. A true shutdown defender.
http://www.extraskater.com/player/4/luke-schenn

They have a gamelog.

I prefer Behindthenet overall... but extraskater does have some nice features.

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01-23-2014, 02:51 PM
  #489
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Lots of talk about Gus vs. Mez and who should play/sit but I'm wondering why Luke seems to be safe from that discussion. I'm not sure how fair it is to blame Luke for all the issues that the third pairing has had, but to me Luke/Mez is a bad combination and Berube should either shuffle the pairings or sit somebody and play Gus. And if it were me I'd sit Luke if that's what it came to.

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01-23-2014, 03:03 PM
  #490
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Luke was good with Gus. He has been bad with Mez.

If they put Gus back in I would keep Luke to see if he improves with a partner who isn't a complete tire fire defensively.

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01-23-2014, 03:08 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Luke was good with Gus. He has been bad with Mez.

If they put Gus back in I would keep Luke to see if he improves with a partner who isn't a complete tire fire defensively.
I wouldn't say Luke was good with Gus. He was just less of a dumpster fire than he is now. I don't understand why some people are advocating keeping him over Grossmann if it comes down to one or the other.

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01-23-2014, 03:14 PM
  #492
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Not a Luke Schenn fan at all...I've seen his type pass through this organization since the mid 80's when I started following the Flyers.

People talk about Coburn having a low hockey IQ but this guy is more stubborn than a mule about playing within his skill limitations. Coburn actually has some skill and plays hard minutes.

As I've noted in previous posts...I don't advocate patience with this guy like his brother and some others. We simply got robbed in the trade and I see very little redeeming qualities right now. I would rather package and move him...

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01-23-2014, 03:19 PM
  #493
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I wouldn't say Luke was good with Gus. He was just less of a dumpster fire than he is now. I don't understand why some people are advocating keeping him over Grossmann if it comes down to one or the other.
Grossmann is older and more injury prone.

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01-23-2014, 03:29 PM
  #494
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Grossmann is older and more injury prone.
And better (if only marginally) in every facet of the game.

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01-23-2014, 03:32 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
Not a Luke Schenn fan at all...I've seen his type pass through this organization since the mid 80's when I started following the Flyers.

People talk about Coburn having a low hockey IQ but this guy is more stubborn than a mule about playing within his skill limitations. Coburn actually has some skill and plays hard minutes.

As I've noted in previous posts...I don't advocate patience with this guy like his brother and some others. We simply got robbed in the trade and I see very little redeeming qualities right now. I would rather package and move him...
The problem with Luke is that he is what he is. He's not going to develop a better skill set as he gets more playing time. He might learn to play more within his limitations, but that's not exactly a massive improvement. He's always going to be just a bottom pairing defenseman that can spend limited time playing on the second pair.

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01-23-2014, 03:32 PM
  #496
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Luke was good with Gus. He has been bad with Mez.

If they put Gus back in I would keep Luke to see if he improves with a partner who isn't a complete tire fire defensively.
This.

Schenn has been at his best in orange and black when paired with Kimmo or Gus. He's been bad when paired with Streit and Mez. It should be pretty obvious from that that he benefits from having a partner that takes care of his end first before jumping in offensively.

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01-23-2014, 03:35 PM
  #497
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And better (if only marginally) in every facet of the game.
He doesn't have a better shot or offensively in general. Schenn has 31 more points in 30 less games. Not a huge difference but to say Grossmann is an oversight IMO.

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01-23-2014, 03:48 PM
  #498
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He doesn't have a better shot or offensively in general. Schenn has 31 more points in 30 less games. Not a huge difference but to say Grossmann is an oversight IMO.
The difference is minimal, and I couldn't care less when we're comparing two defensive defensemen. I was speaking to in-zone play where Grossmann is pretty much better at everything.

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01-23-2014, 03:51 PM
  #499
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
The problem with Luke is that he is what he is. He's not going to develop a better skill set as he gets more playing time. He might learn to play more within his limitations, but that's not exactly a massive improvement. He's always going to be just a bottom pairing defenseman that can spend limited time playing on the second pair.
This is my view as well. I don't see the potential that some others somehow see in him. When a player doesn't have the skill or smarts, what exactly does he bring?

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01-23-2014, 03:57 PM
  #500
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
The problem with Luke is that he is what he is. He's not going to develop a better skill set as he gets more playing time. He might learn to play more within his limitations, but that's not exactly a massive improvement. He's always going to be just a bottom pairing defenseman that can spend limited time playing on the second pair.
I agree and that is what is aggravating about the trade....

We trade a guy with some actual skill who ran into some injury setbacks for a stay at home defensemen who has very little upside other than hoping in any given year he plays within his limitations....sad!

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