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Old
01-31-2007, 11:37 AM
  #51
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Dave Maloney was on FAN590 on Hockey Central with Kypreos and Millard said the Rangers are sticking to their plan.Maloney said the Rangers will be buyers only if the price is right.He even brought up an example-If the cost is Prucha,Dawes and 1st round pick,the Rangers aren't making that deal.They are not going to be the big buyers they have been in the past.Dave kind of hinted the Rangers managment doesn't feel this team is a championship level team.A good team/a playoff team but not a player or two away from winning the Cup

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01-31-2007, 11:39 AM
  #52
Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
And that, my friends, sums up everything you need to know about Rangers hockey.

Forget the future, trade the kids for veterans, try to be one of the top 16 THIS YEAR, don't worry about this year's trades affect the future.

A team like the Devils is one player away from contending for the Cup. We're not.
No, we are one player and a coach away from being a good contender.....

But, I guess we should say.."The season is shot, play the kids, wah-wah-wah, we suck, play the kids, wah-wah-wah, who cares if they ready or being developed the best, but play the kids, wah-wah-wah, because we aint' going anywhere..

Nobody is saying mortgage the future, but If the team has a chance and the cost is reasonable (nobody is saying give up the gems) maybe you do it....Becasue we sure as hell have alot of redundant prospects arounf...people around here act like every kid is gold but, when it comes down to it, most of them will be nothing...JMO

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01-31-2007, 11:40 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
No, we are one player and a coach away from being a good contender.....

But, I guess we should say.."The season is shot, play the kids, wah-wah-wah, we suck, play the kids, wah-wah-wah, who cares if they ready or being developed the best, but play the kids, wah-wah-wah, because we aint' going anywhere..

Nobody is saying mortgage the future, but If the team has a chance and the cost is reasonable (nobody is saying give up the gems) maybe you do it....Becasue we sure as hell have alot of redundant prospects arounf...people around here act like every kid is gold but, when it comes down to it, most of them will be nothing...JMO

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01-31-2007, 11:41 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
And that, my friends, sums up everything you need to know about Rangers hockey.

Forget the future, trade the kids for veterans, try to be one of the top 16 THIS YEAR, don't worry about this year's trades affect the future.

A team like the Devils is one player away from contending for the Cup. We're not.
This is getting a bit tiring. We are all well aware of your position (which constitutes all 170 of your posts).

Here's the facts. As the Rangers currently stand, they are a tweener playoff team. They could make it, they just as easily could be 9th in the conference. From this, they don't offer any real hope outside of the 1st round.

Now, if 2 acquisitions were made: 2nd line center, top 3 defensemen, you have a solid 2nd round team. The second round of the playoffs is where things get interesting. By no means does it make you a favorite, but if you're in the 2nd round, you're a contender. Throw in a hot goalie (which Lundqvist has been stellar the last month), you have just as good a chance as anyone else.

Now the cost. Your no kids for vets mantra is well known already. And frankly, look around. Everyone's opinion is pretty well grounded. Other than a few nuts, notice how many posts still talk about untouchables. From what we know, the Rangers have no interest in moving Staal, Sauer, Callahan, Dubinsky, and other high prospects no matter the return.

Now if Immonen, Dawes, Pock, Girardi, and some draft picks are involved, I'm personally willing to part with to give this years playoffs a whirl. If you're not comfortable with that, fine, we all know that. But this "screw the future" belief you think the Rangers are displaying is nothing further from the truth.

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01-31-2007, 11:43 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
No, we are one player and a coach away from being a good contender.....

But, I guess we should say.."The season is shot, play the kids, wah-wah-wah, we suck, play the kids, wah-wah-wah, who cares if they ready or being developed the best, but play the kids, wah-wah-wah, because we aint' going anywhere..

Nobody is saying mortgage the future, but If the team has a chance and the cost is reasonable (nobody is saying give up the gems) maybe you do it....Becasue we sure as hell have alot of redundant prospects arounf...people around here act like every kid is gold but, when it comes down to it, most of them will be nothing...JMO

Dave4 is misinterpreting what us as fans are saying. IF the price is right (Malik, Rachunek, Ward..) we'd be glad to have Rentals on the team. No major prospects should or will be dealt

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01-31-2007, 11:46 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
people around here act like every kid is gold but, when it comes down to it, most of them will be nothing...JMO
From all the hype prospects get, we like to believe everyone is Marc Savard. Unfortunately, most of them are no better than the Ferraro twins...

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01-31-2007, 11:55 AM
  #57
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Why would we do the Islanders any favors?
Adding Darius Kasparaitus to the Isles defense is no favor.

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01-31-2007, 12:06 PM
  #58
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Adding Darius Kasparaitus to the Isles defense is no favor.
I thought it was a favor for us personally, but eh.

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01-31-2007, 12:08 PM
  #59
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Tkachuk isn't a playmaking center, Vasicek isn't the answer either and I don't think the Rangers should trade Aaron Ward, not for Vasicek. Rangers should look elsewhere for help if this is what STL and NSH are offering.

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Old
01-31-2007, 12:33 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Can't say I'm impressed with the guys the Rangers are supposedly targeting.

Can't say anyone is a fan of what's available at the center position.

If it's that desperate a need, you may need to take what you can get, just try not to overpay for it.

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01-31-2007, 12:38 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by frozenrubber View Post
From all the hype prospects get, we like to believe everyone is Marc Savard. Unfortunately, most of them are no better than the Ferraro twins...
In fairness I think most people have been pretty honest about what to expect with these kids.

I think you have a lot of depth player, longer term prospects and a lack of that cornerstone guy.

Unfortunatly this has really been the Rangers MO for the last few years now.

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01-31-2007, 12:45 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Nobody is saying mortgage the future, but If the team has a chance and the cost is reasonable (nobody is saying give up the gems) maybe you do it....Becasue we sure as hell have alot of redundant prospects arounf...people around here act like every kid is gold but, when it comes down to it, most of them will be nothing...JMO
I agree with this. We have a bunch of projected 2nd line centers and a lot of defensive prospects, so packaging one of each won't hamper our future. The key is getting the other team to bite on guys lower in your depth chart.

The job of management is to put out the best team possible every year with one eye on the future of the organization. You have to balance your decisions, don't mortgage too much but you can't always plan for the future either. The rumors are obviously scary because we have been down this road before, but the front office hasn't really moved a prospect out for a vet in a long time. People can point out Sykora if they want, but Kondretiev is going nowhere and the pick for Ozolinsh was from Niemo.

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01-31-2007, 12:48 PM
  #63
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A.Ward has been good this season. why would we want to trade him? I can understand other teams wanting him. he'd be a great addition to any cup running team. i don't move him at all unless it's for something that really helps this team out long term.

options this season for me.
1) stand pat
2) jason allison - yeah, he might suck. but yeah, he might do well. i think it's a really low risk gamble. if he sucks, we can release him, buy him out, send him to hartford, etc. what's the freakin' big deal? last season, 60 points in 66 games. 39 points on the PP? -18? well, it's a gamble but what are our options really?
3) yanic perrault. i wanted to sign this guy. his faceoff skills alone are worth it. i remember the perrault, tsyplakov... and some other dude. ok, i don't remember so well. but they scored buckets of goals and points in LA. someone with a #44 jersey i think. and then previously in nashville. i don't know if he's even available but he should be cheaper than forsberg, weight, tkachuk, et al.
4) someone from hartford? i don't think any of our kids are ready for fulltime 2nd line center position. maybe dubinsky but he's better served playing in hartford ATM and leading that team in their playoff run. he might do well up here but it's a risk that could damage his development.

and then in the off season, my #1 target is Chris Drury.

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01-31-2007, 12:51 PM
  #64
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Jason Allison is a ****ing retarded human being.
His contributions probably wont be worth the headache he brings in the locker room.
"REF I GOT THE ASSIST, MAKE SURE I GET CREDIT."

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01-31-2007, 12:52 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
I agree with this. We have a bunch of projected 2nd line centers and a lot of defensive prospects, so packaging one of each won't hamper our future. The key is getting the other team to bite on guys lower in your depth chart.

The job of management is to put out the best team possible every year with one eye on the future of the organization. You have to balance your decisions, don't mortgage too much but you can't always plan for the future either. The rumors are obviously scary because we have been down this road before, but the front office hasn't really moved a prospect out for a vet in a long time. People can point out Sykora if they want, but Kondretiev is going nowhere and the pick for Ozolinsh was from Niemo.
Well said, if only because I agree.....But see, we can agree 100% on some things and totally disagree on others..All in the interpreatation!

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01-31-2007, 12:53 PM
  #66
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I'm also intriuged by Vasicek. It's certainly a move that has a clear downside, he could continue to struggle and then your left with another inconsistent forward without a true purpose, however the upside is also pretty nice:

1. He's a center
2. He's big (and we all know that this team has no one of any consequence, either on the roster or in the system, with size at that position.)
3. He's only 26
4. This is a guy that scored 45 points (he lead the team) on a crappy 'canes team durring a year in which the art ross was won with only 94 points (which is the lowest total that I can think of in recent memory.)
5. He's Slovakian. Now I know that Czech's and Slovakian's are differant people with distinct cultures and languages, but I don't think it's unreasonable to hypothosize that he might be more comfortable on a team with a heavy Czech influence.

If he can be had for one of Rachunek or Ward then you have to seriously think about it. I know that our defense is thin right now, but it's not thin from a lack of bottom pairing defensemen (which both of those guys are.) If you think one of Girardi or Baranka (and now might be a good time to call up Baranka to get a look at him) can fill that roll then I think it's perfectly acceptable to move one of those two.

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01-31-2007, 01:13 PM
  #67
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Picture Marek Malik at forward and you've got a pretty good idea of Vasicek.

Last year, Vasicek lit up preseason with 7G-3A in 6 games and started off the regular season on the first line with Staal-Stilman. He completely disappeared, was soon demoted to the second and then the third line and had 5 points in 15 games before blowing out his knee.

He returned in early April and had 4 points in his first game back, then completely disappeared yet again, going the rest of the season (seven games) without a point. Out of the 25 playoff games the Hurricanes played, Vasicek was a healthy scratch 17 times in favor of rookies like Andrew Ladd (29 games of NHL experience) and Chad LaRose (49).

His claim to fame is registering 45 points in the 2003-2004 season while getting top line minutes and first unit powerplay time. Whoop-de-do.


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01-31-2007, 01:34 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Who are your sources?Professional hockey scouts?They are worse than gossip queens.I remember talking a pro scout during the 1993-94 season.My seats were located near the area where the scouts sit at the Garden.This guy kept telling me the Rangers were talking to Chicago about trading Brian Leetch to Chicago for Chris Chelios and was then shocked when it didn't happen on the day the Rangers made 6 trades on that deadline day
No particular order:

NHL Staff
Staff members of specific teams
FSN Staff
MSG Staff
Beat Writers
Members of Canadian and Associated Press
Islanders Committee

Thats where I get all of my information from.

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01-31-2007, 01:42 PM
  #69
n8
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Originally Posted by xander View Post
I'm also intriuged by Vasicek. It's certainly a move that has a clear downside, he could continue to struggle and then your left with another inconsistent forward without a true purpose, however the upside is also pretty nice:

1. He's a center
2. He's big (and we all know that this team has no one of any consequence, either on the roster or in the system, with size at that position.)
3. He's only 26
4. This is a guy that scored 45 points (he lead the team) on a crappy 'canes team durring a year in which the art ross was won with only 94 points (which is the lowest total that I can think of in recent memory.)
5. He's Slovakian. Now I know that Czech's and Slovakian's are differant people with distinct cultures and languages, but I don't think it's unreasonable to hypothosize that he might be more comfortable on a team with a heavy Czech influence.

If he can be had for one of Rachunek or Ward then you have to seriously think about it. I know that our defense is thin right now, but it's not thin from a lack of bottom pairing defensemen (which both of those guys are.) If you think one of Girardi or Baranka (and now might be a good time to call up Baranka to get a look at him) can fill that roll then I think it's perfectly acceptable to move one of those two.
Vasicek has always been an excellent 3rd line center, not good enough 2nd line center to me and we already have one of those. Does anyone know how well he uses his body? A big player who doesn't play big is like... like... well like Malik! Keep Ward if you can. He's worth way more than Vasicek.

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01-31-2007, 01:56 PM
  #70
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Picture Marek Malik at forward and you've got a pretty good idea of Vasicek.

Last year, Vasicek lit up preseason with 7G-3A in 6 games and started off the regular season on the first line with Staal-Stilman. He completely disappeared, was soon demoted to the second and then the third line and had 5 points in 15 games before blowing out his knee.

He returned in early April and had 4 points in his first game back, then completely disappeared yet again, going the rest of the season (seven games) without a point. Out of the 25 playoff games the Hurricanes played, Vasicek was a healthy scratch 17 times in favor of rookies like Andrew Ladd (29 games of NHL experience) and Chad LaRose (49).

His claim to fame is registering 45 points in the 2003-2004 season while getting top line minutes and first unit powerplay time. Whoop-de-do.
Malik's not a great comparison because malik's major flaw is not that he is inconsistant, but rather that he is: soft, slow, hook happy and constantly making poor decisions with the puck.

And I never claimed that Vasicek was a sure thing, far from it, but that he was intruiging. And I don't see how Joseph playing on the top line in 03-04 means anything, exactly who was he playing with? He may have only scored 45 points but no one else got more than 44.

My contention was not that Vasicek is a first line or even a second line center, but that he's a player that has the potential to be a second worth taking a risk on.

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01-31-2007, 01:58 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by frozenrubber View Post
This is getting a bit tiring. We are all well aware of your position (which constitutes all 170 of your posts).

Here's the facts. As the Rangers currently stand, they are a tweener playoff team. They could make it, they just as easily could be 9th in the conference. From this, they don't offer any real hope outside of the 1st round.

Now, if 2 acquisitions were made: 2nd line center, top 3 defensemen, you have a solid 2nd round team. The second round of the playoffs is where things get interesting. By no means does it make you a favorite, but if you're in the 2nd round, you're a contender. Throw in a hot goalie (which Lundqvist has been stellar the last month), you have just as good a chance as anyone else.

Now the cost. Your no kids for vets mantra is well known already. And frankly, look around. Everyone's opinion is pretty well grounded. Other than a few nuts, notice how many posts still talk about untouchables. From what we know, the Rangers have no interest in moving Staal, Sauer, Callahan, Dubinsky, and other high prospects no matter the return.

Now if Immonen, Dawes, Pock, Girardi, and some draft picks are involved, I'm personally willing to part with to give this years playoffs a whirl. If you're not comfortable with that, fine, we all know that. But this "screw the future" belief you think the Rangers are displaying is nothing further from the truth.
Sorry, I thought a message board was a place to voice an opinion. I didn't realize it was only to voice YOUR opinion.

I'll try to respond without attacking you, as you did me.

More facts. I agree with your current assessment. We are a tweener, we can make the playoffs if Jagr and Lundqvist play like they did last year, and miss them if they don't. We've also been pretty lucky with injuries so far this year, if we were in the Flyers' situation we probably wouldn't be up to tweener level.

I guess where we differ most is I don't think we're a second line center and a top 3 defenseman away from being a contender. We have other glaring issues that have been discussed here every day. It's easy to get seduced by the last two games, but you have to factor in the Flyers and the Bruins are two of the worst teams in hockey. Win 8 out of 9, beat the Devils 6-1, and I might change my mind.

And yes, there could be some veterans who are worth sacrificing some of our 'second-tier' youth for. But Forsberg, a guy who states himself that he may not be able to play because his foot continues to bother him is not a veteran worth sacrificing youth for. Not for a 20 game regular season rental, and then we can lose him in July. OR, we can wait until July and sign him for nothing if he's healthy then.

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01-31-2007, 02:03 PM
  #72
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The management needs to realize this that this team will be a one-and-done in the playoffs, and not make any stupid panic-stricken knee-jerk trades to bring in past-prime players in exchange for youth.

The secret to success is being able to build from within. We have a nice foundation, all we need are those future top line talents...

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01-31-2007, 02:09 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
The management needs to realize this that this team will be a one-and-done in the playoffs, and not make any stupid panic-stricken knee-jerk trades to bring in past-prime players in exchange for youth.

The secret to success is being able to build from within. We have a nice foundation, all we need are those future top line talents...
frozenrubber doesn't like to hear that on his board.

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01-31-2007, 02:10 PM
  #74
Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
The management needs to realize this that this team will be a one-and-done in the playoffs, and not make any stupid panic-stricken knee-jerk trades to bring in past-prime players in exchange for youth.

The secret to success is being able to build from within. We have a nice foundation, all we need are those future top line talents...
Why? You get a 2nd C and set your 4 lines and you have a good team up front spear headed by one of the best offensive players in the game...Some of our youth is worth giving up for that shot when you have a Jagr, a top lie, Shanny and lundqvist....All depends on the cost...

As for future top line talents, I don't think we have any...That's where FA will come in again..Just being realistic.,,

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01-31-2007, 02:17 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Why? You get a 2nd C and set your 4 lines and you have a good team up front spear headed by one of the best offensive players in the game...Some of our youth is worth giving up for that shot when you have a Jagr, a top lie, Shanny and lundqvist....All depends on the cost...

As for future top line talents, I don't think we have any...That's where FA will come in again..Just being realistic.,,
I think we need a lot more than Forsberg to contend.

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