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Proposal Thread XIX: MacT Watches BJ's in Columbus

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Old
01-23-2014, 11:14 PM
  #26
Trafalgar Law
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Seeing as Bob MacKenzie said that the best players in the draft could have ceilings of #2 C or 2/3 D, trading Yakupov for a #2 pick would be awful.
MacKenzie said that only some scouts think that, I'd wager most scouts think that Ekblad/Reinhart can be 1D and 1C respectively.

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01-23-2014, 11:17 PM
  #27
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The Jack Johnson hate on here is ridiculous. And bringing up the stats from 2007-2013 really proves what? That JJ was a young developing defencemen during that period?
JJ is brutal.
There's no way around it.
He's made every D partner he's ever played with worse there is a reason he was cut from the US Olympic team.

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01-23-2014, 11:20 PM
  #28
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I think that big German kid would be fun to watch in an Oiler uniform, I only got to see a couple glances of him in the World Juniors though, does anyone on the boards know much about him?

Is he playing in Germany's top pro league? Is he strong on the puck/draw/use his size well?

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01-23-2014, 11:21 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
JJ is brutal.
There's no way around it.
He's made every D partner he's ever played with worse there is a reason he was cut from the US Olympic team.
I'm guessing next you'll tell me how Keith Yandle is a horrible defencemen because he didn't make the roster to? JJ is better then any Oiler defencemen and its not close. Which is pretty damning of our defence.

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01-23-2014, 11:24 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by yukoner88 View Post
I think that big German kid would be fun to watch in an Oiler uniform, I only got to see a couple glances of him in the World Juniors though, does anyone on the boards know much about him?

Is he playing in Germany's top pro league? Is he strong on the puck/draw/use his size well?
Draisaitl? Playing in the WHL

Strong start, but pointless in his last 5 and -11 in his last 11 with Prince Albert. The whole team is struggling.

I like him in general though.

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01-23-2014, 11:25 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
MacKenzie said that only some scouts think that, I'd wager most scouts think that Ekblad/Reinhart can be 1D and 1C respectively.
I can't imagine Ekblad not having serious 1st pairing potential unless he's drafted by the Oilers (I wish I was joking).

He's a year younger than Nurse and his seasons this year and last are both statistically better. Considering that he was getting the key minutes with Team Canada I doubt that he was getting sheltered minutes in Barrie.

Is Nurse's ceiling supposed to be 2nd pairing d?

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01-23-2014, 11:28 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
I'm guessing next you'll tell me how Keith Yandle is a horrible defencemen because he didn't make the roster to? JJ is better then any Oiler defencemen and its not close. Which is pretty damning of our defence.
Is Johnson really better than Ference or Petry?

I mean, sure he put up an 81% Corsi tonight (with MacT potentially still in Columbus nonetheless) but I have serious doubts. Other than offensive skill, prove to me he's better defensively than either of those two.

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01-23-2014, 11:28 PM
  #33
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I don't think finding an elite top pairing defenseman is a need. I think finding defenseman who aren't going to be playing out of their limitations is needed. Not only will those kind of defenseman be upgrades on guys like N. Schultz, Potter and Larsen but they are going to allow Ference, Petry and Schultz to play without pressure. I think if you add some grit and push Ference down the lineup he will be in his Boston form. If Petry is your #3-4 and you're not asking him to be a 1-2 the stupid mistakes and fatigue will decline. If Justin Schultz isn't being asked to be your only real puckmover he'll take a step forward. Most importantly, if you have a decent tandem behind them they aren't going to be overthinking and playing too tentative.

You look at teams like Anaheim, Tampa, New Jersey, Colorado who aren't allowing many goals per game.. solid goaltending and a reliable core of defenseman is enough to win games. New Jersey isn't winning a whole lot but they also don't have the offense we do.

Find reliable goalies/defenseman and we will take a step forward. Achieving this also allows Nurse, Marincin, Klefbom, possibly Ekblad to develop properly and that's when we take another step forward if they reach their potential.

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01-23-2014, 11:29 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say! View Post
I can't imagine Ekblad not having serious 1st pairing potential unless he's drafted by the Oilers (I wish I was joking).

He's a year younger than Nurse and his seasons this year and last are both statistically better. Considering that he was getting the key minutes with Team Canada I doubt that he was getting sheltered minutes in Barrie.

Is Nurse's ceiling supposed to be 2nd pairing d?
To me we'll be lucky if he hits that. I'm sure everyone else will tell you how he's a lock to be first pairing just like Klefbom.

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01-23-2014, 11:33 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Continue with the wild and whacky proposals here!
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Instead of us trying to get two 18 year olds, why don't we use that kind of opportunity to take a good player from Buffalo for the 2nd overall pick?

"Hey Buffalo, so you're taking Ekblad....that's great, but maybe you'd want Reinhart too. How about flipping us Ehrhoff at 2M reduced cap hit? Sure you have recapture risk, but you're getting Reinhart for your risk, which is a pretty good bargain. Maybe throw in something else as well"
Someone took BBO's words literally.

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01-23-2014, 11:39 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Is Johnson really better than Ference or Petry?

I mean, sure he put up an 81% Corsi tonight (with MacT potentially still in Columbus nonetheless) but I have serious doubts. Other than offensive skill, prove to me he's better defensively than either of those two.
Jack Johnson playing #1 minutes on a playoff team.

Petry and Ference playing #2, and 3 minutes respectfully for the 2nd worst club in the league. Petry is also a -17, while for all the crap Ference gets he's actually a very respectable -5 on this piece of crap club.

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01-23-2014, 11:47 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Jack Johnson playing #1 minutes on a playoff team.

Petry and Ference playing #2, and 3 minutes respectfully for the 2nd worst club in the league. Petry is also a -17, while for all the crap Ference gets he's actually a very respectable -5 on this piece of crap club.
Well, if you want to talk plus/minus, Johnson has never had one above the -4 he has now.

Here's a game from Johnson against Pittsburgh that shows the defensive acumen he'd bring.

Also he's playing big minutes and his quality of comp is decent (playing 23 mins this year I believe, Murray has helped him reduce) But his Corsi is consistently under the average on whatever team he plays for AND he basically drops anyone's Corsi he plays with.

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01-23-2014, 11:48 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
I don't think finding an elite top pairing defenseman is a need. I think finding defenseman who aren't going to be playing out of their limitations is needed. Not only will those kind of defenseman be upgrades on guys like N. Schultz, Potter and Larsen but they are going to allow Ference, Petry and Schultz to play without pressure. I think if you add some grit and push Ference down the lineup he will be in his Boston form. If Petry is your #3-4 and you're not asking him to be a 1-2 the stupid mistakes and fatigue will decline. If Justin Schultz isn't being asked to be your only real puckmover he'll take a step forward. Most importantly, if you have a decent tandem behind them they aren't going to be overthinking and playing too tentative.

You look at teams like Anaheim, Tampa, New Jersey, Colorado who aren't allowing many goals per game.. solid goaltending and a reliable core of defenseman is enough to win games. New Jersey isn't winning a whole lot but they also don't have the offense we do.

Find reliable goalies/defenseman and we will take a step forward. Achieving this also allows Nurse, Marincin, Klefbom, possibly Ekblad to develop properly and that's when we take another step forward if they reach their potential.
I don't think this can be understated. We need to be bringing in bridge guys who can play for 3-4 years while our guys develop.

I mean look what a guy like Matt Carle did to Philly when he left. the previous 3 years with him their in the playoffs. He leaves and they take a nose dive. Now that he's in Tampa there starting to pick up there game. I think a lot of people really underestimate influence on a game a PMD can have.

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Old
01-23-2014, 11:51 PM
  #39
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Hall - Nugent-Hopkins - Eberle
Perron - ______ - Yakupov
Hendricks/______ - Gordon - ______
Gazdic - Hendricks/Arcobello - Pitlick/Jones/______
Joensuu

______ - Schultz
Marincin - Petry
Ference - ______
______

______
Scrivens

- Gagner for a 3rd liner or defenseman
- Hemsky, N. Schultz and Smyth for picks
- Overpay Hiller
- Depending on what you get for Gagner, either 2-3 defenseman are needed in Free Agency (Markov, Girardi, Boyle, Timonen, Zidlicky/trade for someone like Johnson then Orpik, Robidas, Greene, Niskanen, Nikitin, Fraser as other options)
- Moss, Kulemin, Legwand, O.Jokinen, Bolland, Setoguchi, Winnik, Lewis/trade as options to fill out offense

Example of lineup:
Hall - Nugent-Hopkins - Eberle
Perron - Jokinen - Yakupov
Laich - Gordon - Moss
Gazdic - Arcobello - Jones
Joensuu

Zidlicky - Schultz
Marincin - Petry
Ference - Greene
Fraser

Hiller
Scrivens

(Laich as example for Gagner type trade)

I think we should be happy if it ends up like this.

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Old
01-23-2014, 11:53 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Well, if you want to talk plus/minus, Johnson has never had one above the -4 he has now.

Here's a game from Johnson against Pittsburgh that shows the defensive acumen he'd bring.

Also he's playing big minutes and his quality of comp is decent (playing 23 mins this year I believe, Murray has helped him reduce) But his Corsi is consistently under the average on whatever team he plays for AND he basically drops anyone's Corsi he plays with.
He's also only 27, and I've seen that highlight video. A lot of those goals aren't a result of JJ. There a result in brutal goaltending or another player missing his assignment.

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01-23-2014, 11:58 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Is Johnson really better than Ference or Petry?

I mean, sure he put up an 81% Corsi tonight (with MacT potentially still in Columbus nonetheless) but I have serious doubts. Other than offensive skill, prove to me he's better defensively than either of those two.
Yes. Jack Johnson has flaws, but is still a top pair defenseman. Considering how Petry makes everyone play better (see Smid, Marincin, Belov), a Petry-Johnson pairing might actually be pretty good, albeit there would still likely be some bad moments in our own zone.

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Old
01-24-2014, 12:01 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Example of lineup:
Hall - Nugent-Hopkins - Eberle
Perron - Jokinen - Yakupov
Laich - Gordon - Moss
Gazdic - Arcobello - Jones
Joensuu

Zidlicky - Schultz
Marincin - Petry
Ference - Greene
Fraser

Hiller
Scrivens

(Laich as example for Gagner type trade)

I think we should be happy if it ends up like this.
Won't make the playoffs with that. I bolded my issues with it:
-Hiller overpaid seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Stats have hovered around .912 so he isn't an upgrade really. I really worry about his vertigo issues as well as he gets older.
-Fraser sucks, ask Leafs fans
-Greene's concussion issues are troubling, and he's pretty slow according to Kings fans.
-Zidlicky isn't coming to a team rebuilding like ours. plus I question his ability to be a top pairing guy on our team; we're different than NJ
-Marincin and Petry on a 2nd pairing seems like a disaster in the works. Marincin especially, why is he all of a sudden able to handle 20 minutes?
-Jokinen is having a rebound year, but a) won't come to a rebuilding team and b) yuck, no compete level from this guy
-Fans keep drooling over Moss, all I see is a guy who plays well with Tippett but is aging with an injury history. No thanks.
-Jones and Joensuu have no business on an NHL roster
-Gazdic probably is best as 13th forward. I don't like him playing every night.

Laich I actually don't mind. He's a guy whose value has dropped, the injuries scare me I guess. As for Johnson, (above post), I disagree that he is a top pairing D-man, and I don't want to pay 4.3M for a guy who consistently sucks defensively.

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01-24-2014, 12:04 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Hall - Nugent-Hopkins - Eberle
That first line gets walked alll over.

Unless they take aggression lessons or use angeldust before every game, you cannot expect them to take us anywhere together.

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01-24-2014, 12:07 AM
  #44
Paralyzer008
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That first line gets walks all over.

Unless they take aggression lessons or use angeldust before every game, you cannot expect them to take us anywhere together.
Disagree.

Hall-RNH-Eberle had positive shot differentials quite a bit, or at least even shot differentials, during the Renney and Krueger eras.

Something Eakins implemented has truly affected the line in a negative way. It can work, but something went wrong this year.

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01-24-2014, 12:10 AM
  #45
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if you help our D and goaltending, then our top line will immediately look better

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01-24-2014, 12:13 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
That first line gets walked alll over.

Unless they take aggression lessons or use angeldust before every game, you cannot expect them to take us anywhere together.
Hall plays a bigger grittier game than you are willing to give him credit for I think. Stick them with a d-man on the ice that knows what he's doing and those 3 are flying down the ice

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01-24-2014, 12:18 AM
  #47
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Disagree.

Hall-RNH-Eberle had positive shot differentials quite a bit, or at least even shot differentials, during the Renney and Krueger eras.

Something Eakins implemented has truly affected the line in a negative way. It can work, but something went wrong this year.
What happened when teams tightened up on us and we needed some comeback goals in physical games? You need a top line that can score and play physical, just like every other team.

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01-24-2014, 12:35 AM
  #48
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Draisaitl? Playing in the WHL

Strong start, but pointless in his last 5 and -11 in his last 11 with Prince Albert. The whole team is struggling.

I like him in general though.
It's begun. Draisaltl saw that the Oilers might get in that top 3 pick range and he's started to tank on purpose... to drop his worth and avoid us.

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Old
01-24-2014, 12:35 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
I don't know how else you expect to get a D-man without moving Eberle, Yakupov, Hall or RNH. Yak won't return you much, because the entire league thinks he's a giant enigma right now. Eberle leaves you with a gaping hole on the RW side, so have fun filling that up somehow.
You don't know how we expect to get a D without giving an Eberle/Yak, well I'm wondering how you expect to improve the team if you're going to worry about things like vertigo, foot speed, past injury problems, compete level and previous coaches? Christ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Won't make the playoffs with that. I bolded my issues with it:
-Hiller overpaid seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Stats have hovered around .912 so he isn't an upgrade really. I really worry about his vertigo issues as well as he gets older.
Hiller has been one of the best goalies all year. Not an upgrade? Give me a break. There is no one better that we actually have a shot at in Free Agency. Miller doesn't want to come here and Hiller > Halak
-Fraser sucks, ask Leafs fans
Fraser was great in his first year in Toronto. Even then, he would be slotted as a 7th D-man anyways. He can jump up in the lineup if Marincin looks like he needs to be sent down.
-Greene's concussion issues are troubling, and he's pretty slow according to Kings fans.
We all know who Matt Greene is. He isn't out there to burn anyone with his speed, he's out there to be a steady stay at home guy and add some size, grit and character.
-Zidlicky isn't coming to a team rebuilding like ours. plus I question his ability to be a top pairing guy on our team; we're different than NJ
Yea, we're more offensive. Sounds right up Zidlicky's alley. I think Edmonton's a more attractive team to play for then New Jersey. If we're paying him good money for a year of two I don't think he would be hesitant to sign. Could be wrong, but again the template is simply an example
-Marincin and Petry on a 2nd pairing seems like a disaster in the works. Marincin especially, why is he all of a sudden able to handle 20 minutes?
Have you watched an Oilers game recently? He's doing it right now. Fraser was an example as someone who is capable of filling in for Marincin if he looks like he needs more time in the AHL.
-Jokinen is having a rebound year, but a) won't come to a rebuilding team and b) yuck, no compete level from this guy
We're not rebuilding, we're looking to make a push for the playoffs. He's a realistic option for a stop gap 2C that brings size, experience, faceoffs and can play with offensive guys
-Fans keep drooling over Moss, all I see is a guy who plays well with Tippett but is aging with an injury history. No thanks.
Big veteran that has played with Gordon. He's a 3rd liner at best. Why you are questioning if he can play his game without Tippett coaching him is beyond me. He's played for other coaches you know?
-Jones and Joensuu have no business on an NHL roster
Joensuu is going to be at best a 13th.. Jones has been just fine this year on the 4th line and is gaining more and more confidence each game. He can chip in every once in a while with a hit or fight. If you can sign someone better by all means.
-Gazdic probably is best as 13th forward. I don't like him playing every night.
Well that might be your opinion but a large majority of Oilers fans and hockey fans who have seen him think he's a good fighter and team guy that has the skating and overall puck skills to play. His teammates love him.

Laich I actually don't mind. He's a guy whose value has dropped, the injuries scare me I guess. As for Johnson, (above post), I disagree that he is a top pairing D-man, and I don't want to pay 4.3M for a guy who consistently sucks defensively.
Sorry paralyzer. I usually don't agree with you and nothing you are saying here is changing that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
That first line gets walked alll over.

Unless they take aggression lessons or use angeldust before every game, you cannot expect them to take us anywhere together.
They have played together before. Have you ever seen them get walked all over? I haven't. Usually I see them at their best when they are together.

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01-24-2014, 12:48 AM
  #50
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I think we should hire Jose Canseco to be our special nutrients doctor. A little testosterone and HGH might help a few of our passive players.

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