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[NYR/NSH] Michael Del Zotto for Kevin Klein

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Old
01-24-2014, 01:22 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
And that's why you should use both.
Exactly!

That doesn't make the 'advanced metrics' useless.

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01-24-2014, 01:25 PM
  #977
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As I've never taken a look at these advanced stats before, what do CF, CA, and CF% mean?
It's all jibberish advocated by those who don't know the game and by professionals who need to justify a decision that is being questioned. In other words, a big friggin' waste of time.

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01-24-2014, 01:29 PM
  #978
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He's played many games. Life doesn't begin when traded to the Rangers.
Can't you wait and see how he plays on our team because that's all that is relevant now? How he plays relatively to MDZ.

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01-24-2014, 01:30 PM
  #979
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It's all jibberish advocated by those who don't know the game and by professionals who need to justify a decision that is being questioned. In other words, a big friggin' waste of time.
Agreed. Advanced stats should be illegal in hockey. There's a reason teams have scouts for every level of play. Hockey's a fluid game..this isn't baseball

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01-24-2014, 01:32 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by DelZottoHitTheNetJK View Post
Agreed. Advanced stats should be illegal in hockey. There's a reason teams have scouts for every level of play. Hockey's a fluid game..this isn't baseball
Yes outlaw them and call anyone who uses them a witch. Then burn them at the stake. Magic number witchcraft is demonic and of the devil.

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01-24-2014, 01:34 PM
  #981
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I'm not sure why defensive play is unquantifiable. I think defensive play is an area where the eye test fails miserably.

I think a good defensive player is one who allows less shots on goal under the same conditions. Tell me why I'm wrong.
The basic premise that shots on goal is the end all event is a problem. Shots come in all shapes and sizes. Often allowing a shot from the boards is an effective play as opposed to letting the player move behind the net for a potential dish. And there are hordes of other "real game" scenerios where the "shot on goal" is misleading as a measure of on ice success or failure.

Our boy BB often throws meaningless shots from the boards at the net because he doesn't have the skill or creativity to do anything else. This hurts his shooting % but helps his advanced stats. How are his advanced stats in any way baked in reality?

btw, did you notice how many times Boyle fell down last night? It was alot.

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01-24-2014, 01:34 PM
  #982
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Also you think scouts and teams don't use advanced stats?

Pls.

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01-24-2014, 01:34 PM
  #983
DelZottoHitTheNetJK
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Yes outlaw them and call anyone who uses them a witch. Then burn them at the stake. Magic number witchcraft is demonic and of the devil.
I wouldn't go that far, it's just really stupid

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01-24-2014, 01:35 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
It's all jibberish advocated by those who don't know the game and by professionals who need to justify a decision that is being questioned. In other words, a big friggin' waste of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DelZottoHitTheNetJK View Post
Agreed. Advanced stats should be illegal in hockey. There's a reason teams have scouts for every level of play. Hockey's a fluid game..this isn't baseball
http://www.fearthefin.com/2013/7/31/...ller-analytics


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01-24-2014, 01:35 PM
  #985
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I'm okay with this deal I just wish Slats could have wrangled a pick out of Nashville as well even a 4-6 rounder.

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01-24-2014, 01:38 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Can't you wait and see how he plays on our team because that's all that is relevant now? How he plays relatively to MDZ.
Meaning your expecting him to be a different defenseman now that he's a Ranger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
It's all jibberish advocated by those who don't know the game and by professionals who need to justify a decision that is being questioned. In other words, a big friggin' waste of time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DelZottoHitTheNetJK View Post
Agreed. Advanced stats should be illegal in hockey. There's a reason teams have scouts for every level of play. Hockey's a fluid game..this isn't baseball
There's a reason teams use advanced quantitative measures, too.

And Baseball teams scout every level too...

I'll never understand people who can be so dismissive of a concept they've clearly made no attempt to understand. If I'm going to dismiss something, I'll be damned sure to have a reason for it.

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Old
01-24-2014, 01:39 PM
  #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
The basic premise that shots on goal is the end all event is a problem. Shots come in all shapes and sizes. Often allowing a shot from the boards is an effective play as opposed to letting the player move behind the net for a potential dish. And there are hordes of other "real game" scenerios where the "shot on goal" is misleading as a measure of on ice success or failure.

Our boy BB often throws meaningless shots from the boards at the net because he doesn't have the skill or creativity to do anything else. This hurts his shooting % but helps his advanced stats. How are his advanced stats in any way baked in reality?

btw, did you notice how many times Boyle fell down last night? It was alot.
Even if Boyle is throwing Cupcakes all game there is something going on, on the ice that allows him that opportunity. Whether it is Boyle's own play or his teammates. If Boyle is throwing shots on net everytime he is on the ice, guess what zone he and his teammates were playing in during that shift? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the one containing Henrk Lundqvist or Cam Talbot.

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Old
01-24-2014, 01:41 PM
  #988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DelZottoHitTheNetJK View Post
Agreed. Advanced stats should be illegal in hockey. There's a reason teams have scouts for every level of play. Hockey's a fluid game..this isn't baseball
What?

Baseball teams have scouts, too. Sometimes, those scouts make stupid trades because they're not as good at evaluating players as some advanced metrics are.

The best scouts use every available type of judgement to evaluate players-- that goes for baseball and hockey.

I don't think puck possession is the end all be all, and I don't think every shot is equal. But to say that it "should be illegal" to quantify players on very useful ways of judging play is ludicrous.

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01-24-2014, 01:42 PM
  #989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DelZottoHitTheNetJK View Post
Agreed. Advanced stats should be illegal in hockey. There's a reason teams have scouts for every level of play. Hockey's a fluid game..this isn't baseball
The San Jose Sharks use "advanced" stats even when tracking amateur play. As do the Red Wings. Ever wondered why their scouts seem so good?

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01-24-2014, 01:42 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post



I'll never understand people who can be so dismissive of a concept they've clearly made no attempt to understand. If I'm going to dismiss something, I'll be damned sure to have a reason for it.
Fire Joe Morgan is the greatest "blog" on the internet AINEC.

It's a shame that all these years later and after those dudes took so many morons to task for being wrong, so many people are still so vitriolic to analysis in all sports.

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Old
01-24-2014, 01:43 PM
  #991
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Alright this has become a thread about nothing but advanced stats, closing her up

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