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We Should Become Sellers!!!

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Old
02-01-2007, 06:06 AM
  #26
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Last night's game was beyond frustrating

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Old
02-01-2007, 06:20 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Draft Guru View Post
The mood swings on this board are simply puzzling.

We win 6-1, we're a good team, all we need is a 2nd line center to have a legitimate shot.

We lose 2-1, lets trade everybody, have a fire sale, and just give up on the season with two months left to play and only a handful of points out of a playoff spot.

Come on now. We all survived '98-'04, I think we can get through a frustrating season of inconsistency without jumping overboard.
That's what I don't get. I guess some people would be more happy if the Rangers were at the point they were in March 2004...and just want to accumulate prospect. I guess part of that is the mentality of the people who come to a site called Hockey's Future. But, this team is nowhere near what it was at that point. It has a healthy coffer of good prospects that it drafted since that time period - be this board's estimation, there's at least 15 prospects with the ability to make the NHL (and, three good prospects from last year's draft - Hillier, Kveton and Zaborsky have yet to be listed). It's set in goal, has the building blocks of a sound defense, and could realistically fill the bottom three lines with the players it has in the system. Yes, the striking need are a couple of elite prospect for the top line and possibly a #1 defender (although I believe the quartet of Staal, Sanguinetti, Sauer and Tyutin are going to be formidable). The problem is perception. For some of us, last year was a complete surprise. I thought the Rangers would be one of the worst teams in the league, and they were far from it. So, they went out and upgraded the talent, but, the truth, so did other teams. We are starting to see a transition away from what last year's team was, but, for most people, that transition isn't happening fast enough. But, the first fruits of the first draft after the purge of 2004 is already at Hartford basically carrying that team to the top of the standings. Montoya,, Korpikoski, Byers, Dubinsky and Callahan are key members of the Pack; plus, you also have Moore, Immonen, Helminen and Liffiton, all acquired in those deals, being active members in that success. 1998-2004 was an awful time to be a Ranger fan - a ridiculously overpriced product that came up small in so many ways.

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Old
02-01-2007, 06:57 AM
  #28
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No!

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Old
02-01-2007, 07:09 AM
  #29
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derek armstrong is available from the Kings...

Hey, wasn't Derek Armstrong one of our "prospects" back in the day??

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Old
02-01-2007, 07:13 AM
  #30
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Unfortunately this is not EHM where you can have a firesale every year only for your guys to come back in FA later in the summer.

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Old
02-01-2007, 07:29 AM
  #31
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I'll weigh in with my two cents. Since the beginning of the year I thought the team was terribly flawed. The team has a mediocre defense and two or three legitimate scoring threats, Jagr, Shanny, Straka and pehaps Prucha. The team does have an elite goalie and very fine defensive prospects in Staal, Sauer, Baranka Sangunetti to go along with Tyutin, and perhaps Girardi.Regrettably, Jagr and company will not be around when this team can legitimately compete. As I've stated many times, slipping into the playoffs to be immediately eliminated is not the goal. Building a team to legitimately compete each year is the goal. Therefore, I would be courageous and look to trade Jagr, Shanny, Nylander and Straka. Just as many posters have stated they would be buyers for the right price, I would be a seller for the right price. I go back to when I first watched the Rangers and fell in love with Andy Bathgate. He was yesterday's Jagr. The Rangers finally traded him to Toronto for a bevy of prospects. It helped to accelerate the team to respectability. The team should bite the bullet and try to obtain some young top six forward prospects to really have a foundation ON WHICH TO BUILD. Pitts burgh and Washington will be way ahead of us for the next five years if we do not change the mode of operation. Rebuttals please

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Old
02-01-2007, 07:35 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by bathgate View Post
I'll weigh in with my two cents. Since the beginning of the year I thought the team was terribly flawed. The team has a mediocre defense and two or three legitimate scoring threats, Jagr, Shanny, Straka and pehaps Prucha. The team does have an elite goalie and very fine defensive prospects in Staal, Sauer, Baranka Sangunetti to go along with Tyutin, and perhaps Girardi.Regrettably, Jagr and company will not be around when this team can legitimately compete. As I've stated many times, slipping into the playoffs to be immediately eliminated is not the goal. Building a team to legitimately compete each year is the goal. Therefore, I would be courageous and look to trade Jagr, Shanny, Nylander and Straka. Just as many posters have stated they would be buyers for the right price, I would be a seller for the right price. I go back to when I first watched the Rangers and fell in love with Andy Bathgate. He was yesterday's Jagr. The Rangers finally traded him to Toronto for a bevy of prospects. It helped to accelerate the team to respectability. The team should bite the bullet and try to obtain some young top six forward prospects to really have a foundation ON WHICH TO BUILD. Pitts burgh and Washington will be way ahead of us for the next five years if we do not change the mode of operation. Rebuttals please
I do not mind that mentality but you just cannot hope for management to do it.

Jagr is too much of a time bomb to try to trade him. What if he does not want to go to Nashville and would prefer to leave the NHL? He's only an asset as a player on our team right now.

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Old
02-01-2007, 07:35 AM
  #33
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Chicken Little, Chicken Little, the sky is falling...

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Old
02-01-2007, 07:47 AM
  #34
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I'm as frustrated as everyone else. Though I would love to see many of the Hartford kids up and playing and can't understand why they're not, we can't take the temperature of this team after every game.
I thought the Toronto game showed two equal teams: thats would made the game so good. Unfortunately, its two equal teams that just might miss the playoffs.
One thing that did disturb me, and is indicative of the Rangers is: Pock made a bad read and was beaten badly on the Sundin goal. That was the last time he saw the ice. Is this how a young D learns? Is this how he can internalize his mistake, go out on the ice and correct it? Is this how he is rewarded for all the improvement he has shown lately? Benching him will certainly not help his confidence. Here, in a nutshell is a major part of the Ranger problem and why we will never have a young core of players we can suppliment with older free agent vets and be a legit Cup contender.

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Old
02-01-2007, 08:30 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate View Post
I'll weigh in with my two cents. Since the beginning of the year I thought the team was terribly flawed. The team has a mediocre defense and two or three legitimate scoring threats, Jagr, Shanny, Straka and pehaps Prucha. The team does have an elite goalie and very fine defensive prospects in Staal, Sauer, Baranka Sangunetti to go along with Tyutin, and perhaps Girardi.Regrettably, Jagr and company will not be around when this team can legitimately compete. As I've stated many times, slipping into the playoffs to be immediately eliminated is not the goal. Building a team to legitimately compete each year is the goal. Therefore, I would be courageous and look to trade Jagr, Shanny, Nylander and Straka. Just as many posters have stated they would be buyers for the right price, I would be a seller for the right price. I go back to when I first watched the Rangers and fell in love with Andy Bathgate. He was yesterday's Jagr. The Rangers finally traded him to Toronto for a bevy of prospects. It helped to accelerate the team to respectability. The team should bite the bullet and try to obtain some young top six forward prospects to really have a foundation ON WHICH TO BUILD. Pitts burgh and Washington will be way ahead of us for the next five years if we do not change the mode of operation. Rebuttals please
I'm with you and have been throughout the season.

There's just way to many holes on this team to think it has a legit shot at passing through the 1st round in the playoffs.

The fact of the matter is, I'd be more surprised if the team actually made the playoffs than if they didn't.

But as folks have stated, this is NY and even if the myth that you can't rebuild in NY isn't true, Rangers management operates like it is and that's just sad. Because as we continue to re-gurgitate old vets like a Jagr and a Shanny (who has pretty much stopped scoring for the last 20+ games) and Nylander and Straka the future of the team never gets developed properly and dies on the vine.

Unfortunate

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Old
02-01-2007, 08:34 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate View Post
I'll weigh in with my two cents. Since the beginning of the year I thought the team was terribly flawed. The team has a mediocre defense and two or three legitimate scoring threats, Jagr, Shanny, Straka and pehaps Prucha. The team does have an elite goalie and very fine defensive prospects in Staal, Sauer, Baranka Sangunetti to go along with Tyutin, and perhaps Girardi.Regrettably, Jagr and company will not be around when this team can legitimately compete. As I've stated many times, slipping into the playoffs to be immediately eliminated is not the goal. Building a team to legitimately compete each year is the goal. Therefore, I would be courageous and look to trade Jagr, Shanny, Nylander and Straka. Just as many posters have stated they would be buyers for the right price, I would be a seller for the right price. I go back to when I first watched the Rangers and fell in love with Andy Bathgate. He was yesterday's Jagr. The Rangers finally traded him to Toronto for a bevy of prospects. It helped to accelerate the team to respectability. The team should bite the bullet and try to obtain some young top six forward prospects to really have a foundation ON WHICH TO BUILD. Pitts burgh and Washington will be way ahead of us for the next five years if we do not change the mode of operation. Rebuttals please

I agree and I've said the same thing all along. Any talk of this team being a Cup contender at the beginning of the season or now was/is laughable.

This team could/should make the playoffs and they could surprise but I'm not holding my breath and I don't believe that you build a team and say, "well we could surprise people".

I would love it if what Brooks said came true. That is, Girardi earns a spot and frees up the Rangers to deal a vet d-man at the deadline.

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Old
02-01-2007, 08:37 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post

I would love it if what Brooks said came true. That is, Girardi earns a spot and frees up the Rangers to deal a vet d-man at the deadline.
That'll be the day.

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Old
02-01-2007, 08:46 AM
  #38
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While the team isn't going anywhere this year, I still don't think that it's too far off from being a legit contender.

The Jagr-Straka-Nylander combo will be back again next year.

Tyutin will be a year older and that much better.

Staal could be ready to contribute at the start of the season.

Some combination of Callahan, Immonen, Dawes, Baranka, could all be up and provide the scoring depth that we lack right now.

If they can convince Shanny to come back, and sign a guy like Drury to play alongside him, what's to stop us from being one of the top teams in the East? I know that a lot can happen, and I'm not ready to give up completely on this season, but imagine a rotation that looks something like this:

Jagr-Nylander-Straka
Callahan/Dawes-Drury-Shanahan
Ortmeyer-Cullen-Prucha
Immonen/Hossa-Betts-Hollweg

Tyutin-Staal
Roszival-Girardi
Baranka-Ward

I really don't think it's necessary to start having another firesale.

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Old
02-01-2007, 08:54 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
While the team isn't going anywhere this year, I still don't think that it's too far off from being a legit contender.

The Jagr-Straka-Nylander combo will be back again next year.

Tyutin will be a year older and that much better.

Staal could be ready to contribute at the start of the season.

Some combination of Callahan, Immonen, Dawes, Baranka, could all be up and provide the scoring depth that we lack right now.

If they can convince Shanny to come back, and sign a guy like Drury to play alongside him, what's to stop us from being one of the top teams in the East? I know that a lot can happen, and I'm not ready to give up completely on this season, but imagine a rotation that looks something like this:

Jagr-Nylander-Straka
Callahan/Dawes-Drury-Shanahan
Ortmeyer-Cullen-Prucha
Immonen/Hossa-Betts-Hollweg

Tyutin-Staal
Roszival-Girardi
Baranka-Ward

I really don't think it's necessary to start having another firesale.
And all of the stars (ala Jagr, Straka, Nylander, Shanny) will be a year older too, but I guess that does not count.

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02-01-2007, 08:58 AM
  #40
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And all of the stars (ala Jagr, Straka, Nylander, Shanny) will be a year older too, but I guess that does not count.
Of course they'll be a year older. But you want to start blowing up the team because the stars might fall off the cliff.

Jagr-Straka-Nyalander are all in the top 20 in scoring this season. Why are all three suddenly going to drastically decline.

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02-01-2007, 08:59 AM
  #41
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i agree, fire sale.

the rangers are toast in the playoffs.

jagr's bad shoulder won't get it done.

you have the net rebuild around that.

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Old
02-01-2007, 09:21 AM
  #42
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You wanna compare the Rangers to PITT????

dkich96 -

Quote:
Look at Pittsburgh or Washington and that is what I would classify a true rebuild and that is exactly not what we are doing
Wow i dont know how you can compare the Rangers "rebuild" to Pittsburghs when Pittsburgh got 5 top 5 picks in 5 years.

2001 - #21 Colby Armstrong
2002 - #5 Ryan Whitney
2003 - #1. Marc-Andre Fluery
2004 - #2. Evgeni Malkin
2005 - #1. Sidney Crosby
2006 - #2. Jordan Stall

Thats not a "true rebuild" - thats getting ridiculously lucky in the lottery and sucking badly enough for a stretch of years to get those players - all 6 are playing important roles for the Penguins right now. And instead being lower and taking these players:

2001 - #10. Dan Blackburn (retired)
2002 - Traded first round pick to CGY (Eric Nystrom)
2003 - #12. Hugh Jessiman
2004 - #6. Al Montoya, #19. Lauri Korpikoski
2005 - #12. Marc Staal
2006 - #21. Bobby Sanguinetti

You have a no brainer situation taking those 5 top 5 players Pitt took, the Rangers had bad luck with their picks, call it scouting, whatever. That Jessiman pick is really screwing this team now. He is worth nothing.


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Old
02-01-2007, 09:26 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
Of course they'll be a year older. But you want to start blowing up the team because the stars might fall off the cliff.

Jagr-Straka-Nyalander are all in the top 20 in scoring this season. Why are all three suddenly going to drastically decline.
Yes. They will get slower, older and every other team gets younger and faster. Jagr is sure lighting up the lamp lately.

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Old
02-01-2007, 09:35 AM
  #44
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There are some people who have held steadfast that this team isn't built for either long-term or short-term success, even through the high points (the few that there have been) this season. Myself included. I don't think a firesale is in order, but if we're still on the bubble come deadline time I'd prefer that we become sellers rather than buyers. I think we have some kids that will be ready to play in the NHL next season and be productive, so I'd rather accumulate even more talent by moving a guy like Shannahan and then spend in the UFA market on a center and a d-man.

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Old
02-01-2007, 09:52 AM
  #45
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Yes. They will get slower, older and every other team gets younger and faster. Jagr is sure lighting up the lamp lately.
Straka's point totals the past 4 seasons and projected this season: 9, 46, 26, 76, 92

Nylander's: 61, 60, 14, 79, 87

Jagr's: 79, 77, 74, 123, 100

Wow. That's some decline.

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Old
02-01-2007, 10:25 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
Straka's point totals the past 4 seasons and projected this season: 9, 46, 26, 76, 92

Nylander's: 61, 60, 14, 79, 87

Jagr's: 79, 77, 74, 123, 100

Wow. That's some decline.
Wow, Jagr 3 goals in January when we need him most.
Shanny - 3 goals in January

I can't contain my excitement for the powerful offense

7 wins 12 losses since mid December. Lets go Vets!
Maybe they need a 2 week vacation.

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Old
02-01-2007, 10:36 AM
  #47
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In order to be a seller you must have something that others want to buy.

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Old
02-01-2007, 10:37 AM
  #48
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Wow, Jagr 3 goals in January when we need him most.
Shanny - 3 goals in January

I can't contain my excitement for the powerful offense

7 wins 12 losses since mid December. Lets go Vets!
Maybe they need a 2 week vacation.
Or they need some actual talent and energy around them so that the other teams can't focus solely on shutting them down.

Personally, 1 fire sale in the past 3 seasons is enough for me, thanks.

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Old
02-01-2007, 10:42 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
Or they need some actual talent and energy around them so that the other teams can't focus solely on shutting them down.

Personally, 1 fire sale in the past 3 seasons is enough for me, thanks.
Nylander and straka are not enough talent for Jagr? ok, i agree shanny needs help. I think nylander needs to be moved of this line and center shanny. straka can center jagr and you can choose who else goes on that line, ok.

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02-01-2007, 10:50 AM
  #50
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Nylander and straka are not enough talent for Jagr? ok, i agree shanny needs help. I think nylander needs to be moved of this line and center shanny. straka can center jagr and you can choose who else goes on that line, ok.

No, Nylander and Straka are plenty enough talent for Jagr. That's why all three are in the top 20 in scoring. But when you only have one scoring line, it's not hard for the opposing teams to focus almost exclusively on shutting them down because they don't have to worry about anyone else.

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