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Do you think Poile & Trotz should get a free pass due to the Pekka injury ?

View Poll Results: Do you think Poile & Trotz will get a free pass this season ?
Yes 12 30.00%
No 28 70.00%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-25-2014, 10:49 AM
  #1
Joe T Choker
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Do you think Poile & Trotz should get a free pass due to the Pekka injury ?

And do you think they should ?


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01-25-2014, 10:57 AM
  #2
Enoch
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Unfortunately

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01-25-2014, 11:55 AM
  #3
gratefulpred
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Voted yes, wish it would be no but...Change the word will to should and it is a whole different kettle of fish and I give a firm NO

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01-25-2014, 12:01 PM
  #4
Joe T Choker
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I hope you're right Jonesy

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01-25-2014, 12:39 PM
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Viqsi
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My opinion's a little more nuanced on this one. Should/Will they get a free pass because of Rinne? No. But is that grounds for tossing 'em out? I still say no. I'd prefer to see how they recover first - particularly in the coming offseason. They've been tremendously effective for many years prior; they've earned the chance to bounce back IMO.

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01-25-2014, 12:47 PM
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Joe T Choker
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
My opinion's a little more nuanced on this one. Should/Will they get a free pass because of Rinne? No. But is that grounds for tossing 'em out? I still say no. I'd prefer to see how they recover first - particularly in the coming offseason. They've been tremendously effective for many years prior; they've earned the chance to bounce back IMO.
So a decade & a half is still not enough time to create a Division/Conference/Stanley Cup Champion ?

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01-25-2014, 01:01 PM
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Preds33
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No free pass for either. The issue is not goaltending, its the entire team. Yes goaltending may have cost some games, but the entire team's effortless play has cost more games than just the goaltending.

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01-25-2014, 01:38 PM
  #8
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
So a decade & a half is still not enough time to create a Division/Conference/Stanley Cup Champion ?
For many teams it's taken even longer than that. These sorts of things don't just happen without obstacles. Setbacks happen. Now, if they're persistently at the bottom of the league, then yes, a change should be considered (seeing as though this team was competing for the playoffs regularly not too long ago, that'd be a serious regression). But this has yet to be the case.

I grant I'm troubled by how this past offseason was "addressed", so I'm not as adamantly opposed to the idea as I used to be. But I'm not in the crowd desperately seeking vindication for their "but these players were supposed to be superheroes; the front office must've ruined it all; get 'em!" anti-Poile anti-Trotz agenda that's been carried since long before this downturn.

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Old
01-25-2014, 01:49 PM
  #9
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Ask yourself, how many wins does Rinne give you. How many games does Rinne steal each year by standing on his head etc.?

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01-25-2014, 02:02 PM
  #10
Joe T Choker
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Originally Posted by Flgatorguy87 View Post
Ask yourself, how many wins does Rinne give you. How many games does Rinne steal each year by standing on his head etc.?
It used to be allot more than what it's been lately.

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01-25-2014, 02:05 PM
  #11
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I voted no but do I think they will loose their jobs ...NO!!!! Going back two years when Suter left and Poile screwed that up we have been trying to recover and this offseason was one for the books. Instead of getting quality offence we got two grinders and two expriements in Cullen and Stalberg. Now we trade one expriement for another in DD. We saved on the money and that is the bottom line in this organization. We aren't in this to try to advance and try for the cup. Just make the playoffs and hope our goaltending and defence will get us through one round. Then wonderful job Barry and David you out smarted them all on a shoestring budget.

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01-25-2014, 02:08 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flgatorguy87 View Post
Ask yourself, how many wins does Rinne give you. How many games does Rinne steal each year by standing on his head etc.?
Having Rinne in goal would turn around 3-5 losses this season. That's the difference in making or missing the playoffs.

Such a situation is beyond Trotz's control - although his spiel has gotten truly bizarre, if not downright pretentious, and stale - but Poile's foresight for that kind of risk was to sign a goaltender with 1 NHL game of experience, and when he was thrust into a role he wasn't ready for, do nothing about it. That doomed our season unless Rinne is back after the Olympic break.

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01-25-2014, 02:15 PM
  #13
Joe T Choker
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Having Rinne in goal would turn around 3-5 losses this season. That's the difference in making or missing the playoffs.

Such a situation is beyond Trotz's control - although his spiel has gotten truly bizarre, if not downright pretentious, and stale - but Poile's foresight for that kind of risk was to sign a goaltender with 1 NHL game of experience, and when he was thrust into a role he wasn't ready for, do nothing about it. That doomed our season unless Rinne is back after the Olympic break.
I'm wondering if we're going to have to use a compliance buyout on him

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01-25-2014, 02:42 PM
  #14
PredsV82
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I'm sorry but I just don't know what anyone would expect. We all knew losing Rinne for a long period of time was the one thing we had no hope of overcoming. Anyone who thinks we should have spent 3 million or more for a 1A backup headed into this season is just stupid. You don't spend that kind of money on a backup goalie unless you think you have a Cup contender and goal is your potential achilles heel (like pittsburgh did when the signed vokoun)

Signing Hutton was no worse than signing some worn out retread like Theodore or Hedberg. And the truth of the matter is, we are playing .500 hockey with our backup and that's about the best you can hope for. We were going to be a bubble playoff team with Rinne healthy, and we are about a 10th place team without him.

If everyone who wants to bag on Trotz for the bad things was forced to give him credit for the good, in the end its about a wash.

Its annoying listening to our fans act like we are having a season like edmonton or calgary are having, or like the blue jackets used to have. This hasn't been a good year but its also not a disaster by any stretch of the imagination.

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01-25-2014, 02:42 PM
  #15
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Every year is a different excuse. Winners don't make excuses, they rise to the occasion.

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01-25-2014, 02:45 PM
  #16
PredsV82
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Every year is a different excuse. Winners don't make excuses, they rise to the occasion.
Oh bullspit.

I would argue that with what we had on the roster starting the year, losing Rinne and still playing .500 is rising to the occasion.

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01-25-2014, 04:21 PM
  #17
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Free pass? No. But is this team a playoff team with a healthy Rinne? Despite the inconsistency across the board, the answer is yes. No excuses, it's just the reality of the situation.

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01-25-2014, 04:57 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
No free pass for either. The issue is not goaltending, its the entire team. Yes goaltending may have cost some games, but the entire team's effortless play has cost more games than just the goaltending.
I was going to post, but this is close enough for me. DP and BT should have built a team strong enough to survive. They clearly have not done so. Hutton looked very good in the AHL, but he turned out to be a AAAA player in the NHL.

The Packers didn't have Aaron Rodgers for 7 weeks. Scott Tolzien came off the bench. Next game, the back-up, Seneca Wallace, made all of three downs before he was out for the season! Back to Tolzien. So they brought in Matt Flynn for Injury Game 3 and went 2-4-1 overall. Not good; but good enough to make the playoffs and go out in the first round. Sound familiar? The Packers bottom end equals the Preds top end. That needs to be fixed!

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01-25-2014, 05:00 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
I'm sorry but I just don't know what anyone would expect. We all knew losing Rinne for a long period of time was the one thing we had no hope of overcoming. Anyone who thinks we should have spent 3 million or more for a 1A backup headed into this season is just stupid. You don't spend that kind of money on a backup goalie unless you think you have a Cup contender and goal is your potential achilles heel (like pittsburgh did when the signed vokoun)

Signing Hutton was no worse than signing some worn out retread like Theodore or Hedberg. And the truth of the matter is, we are playing .500 hockey with our backup and that's about the best you can hope for. We were going to be a bubble playoff team with Rinne healthy, and we are about a 10th place team without him.

If everyone who wants to bag on Trotz for the bad things was forced to give him credit for the good, in the end its about a wash.

Its annoying listening to our fans act like we are having a season like edmonton or calgary are having, or like the blue jackets used to have. This hasn't been a good year but its also not a disaster by any stretch of the imagination.
Are you really Ted Thompson? You sound just like him!

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01-25-2014, 05:05 PM
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I actually think this team is sitting comfortably in playoff position with Rinne. So while Poile made a mistake in not focusing on a backup, its not necessarily an offense that he should be fired for.

Look at our shootout record, while we did not score, how many times have we won by a single goal with Rinne stopping the shooters. So theres roughly 2 or 3 points.

I know there is no way to know what would have happened during the season, but we've lost several games by letting in very soft goals. It has happened to Rinne but we may get 2 or 3 a year not 7 or 8.

I know we are tired of not challenging for the cup, but we did 2 years ago had a lockout the next and lost Rinne after that. I say lets see what next season holds.

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01-25-2014, 05:45 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Every year is a different excuse. Winners don't make excuses, they rise to the occasion.
Every year just about, it's an excuse. So and so hurt blah, blah blah. I am tired of it. Poile doesn't know how to build a contending team in the current NHL. And I think Trotz is well past his sell by date. Consistency is nice, but when it is consistent mediocrity then something needs to change.

A lot of STH are questioning whether they should renew or not. That should wake someone up.

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01-25-2014, 06:27 PM
  #22
glenngineer
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Oh bullspit.

I would argue that with what we had on the roster starting the year, losing Rinne and still playing .500 is rising to the occasion.
Here's a few problems with this,

1. You, 101 and I have discussed this ad nauseam about the goalies letting in softies, the team defense or lack thereof and when one is good the other isn't or vice versa or we have a game like we did against Vancouver and it all clicks or we have a game like last night where Dubnyk couldn't stop a beach ball if his life depended upon it. Dubnyk is a huge guy that plays small with a slider speed glove. If you know baseball terms you know what I'm referencing. He is not the athlete that Rinne or Lindback are and if you're going to be a little slower, you need to stay big. He doesn't. The one thing the trade did was made Hutton realize his job was on the line and in the two games he's played since we've acquired Dubnyk, he's looked like an NHL goalie. Hopefully that stays the case. Until the team learns to play together night in and night out, that means all 19 players, this team will remain inconsistent.

2. If you're basing your entire season on one player, like a Rinne, you have not constructed your team properly. No team can lose a superstar, I get that but other teams have and yet they keep rolling along. The Kings lost Quick for over a month and their backups came in and kicked butt. Other players have gone down over the years and other players have stepped up. We don't a roster where anyone can step up if someone goes down. This is a huge problem that hasn't been addressed. While I love having an all-world goalie, if he goes down, the entire ship seems to sink with him gone and that to me is poor roster development.

3. As far as the excuses go, last year it was injuries, this year it's Rinne, years ago in the playoffs it's because we were the lower seed then it was we were matched up against a San Jose team that we didn't match up well against. I remember making it to the second round and crying, like many of us did. We got over the hump, finally. Then we did it again the next year. Poile made a bunch of moves to make us a serious contender yet Trotz and the new mix of players didn't work out for whatever reason. Since then, this team has been a disaster and heading in the wrong direction. The owners gave Poile a budget to work with and he signed a bunch of grinders and guys that Trotz has no idea how to use. For all the complaints about Cullen, he's a solid playmaker playing with guys with stone hands on most nights yet we complain about his production when he's teamed with non-skilled guys. That's a coaching decision. Yet, he gets PP time with Smith and Spaling as the forwards and it works. So why is he not getting more time with skilled players?

4. At a certain point, people will stop going to games. I know I have. I ran in to a guy at work the other day who loves this team as much as I do and he's in the same boat, he has to be dragged to games at this point. When your loyal fan base is not interested in the team, what's going to happen to the casual fan? We are frustrated beyond belief and the email I got back from Sean Henry was less than inspiring about the direction of the team.

5. It's great having an NHL team in our city. The expectations of any franchise is to win a title. Cigarran and his fellow owners have pledged this to the fan base yet the moves that his hockey people have been making don't add up to building a contender. If any one of us can sit here and see the architecture of this team and us becoming a contender any time soon, I'm all ears but at some point, you have to get offensive players in the system via trades, the draft or free agency. It's been 15 years. Wychek the other day lambasted the GM for not going out and getting scorers. He was frustrated that for the last 10 years we haven't been able to do this. He tried to get Howard to agree with him but all the butt kisser would say was I don't disagree with you Frank. When the media who cover the team won't call the team out on occasion, what's the point. It's like we're all good old southern boys and we don't want to rock the boat. With anything in life you have to take chances to succeed and achieve greatness. Poile is good at playing it safe as is Trotz. If people want to continue to pay money and watch the product on the ice, that's their business but all I see and hear is excuses about why this isn't going well or something else isn't going well. A change could fail or it could work or we may stay stagnant. At this point, I see the same mistakes over and over on the ice and while I see the effort out there, the mental aspect is missing from a lot of these guys. I want more from the team and with the amount of money we're able to spend now, why are spending it on guys that are a dime a dozen as opposed to guys with actual hockey talent?

All that said, NO MORE EXCUSES.

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01-25-2014, 06:58 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post

5. It's great having an NHL team in our city. The expectations of any franchise is to win a title. Cigarran and his fellow owners have pledged this to the fan base yet the moves that his hockey people have been making don't add up to building a contender. If any one of us can sit here and see the architecture of this team and us becoming a contender any time soon, I'm all ears but at some point, you have to get offensive players in the system via trades, the draft or free agency. It's been 15 years. Wychek the other day lambasted the GM for not going out and getting scorers. He was frustrated that for the last 10 years we haven't been able to do this. He tried to get Howard to agree with him but all the butt kisser would say was I don't disagree with you Frank. When the media who cover the team won't call the team out on occasion, what's the point. It's like we're all good old southern boys and we don't want to rock the boat. With anything in life you have to take chances to succeed and achieve greatness. Poile is good at playing it safe as is Trotz. If people want to continue to pay money and watch the product on the ice, that's their business but all I see and hear is excuses about why this isn't going well or something else isn't going well. A change could fail or it could work or we may stay stagnant. At this point, I see the same mistakes over and over on the ice and while I see the effort out there, the mental aspect is missing from a lot of these guys. I want more from the team and with the amount of money we're able to spend now, why are spending it on guys that are a dime a dozen as opposed to guys with actual hockey talent?
I would disagree with that. I think every franchise wants to win a title, and has a championship as their ultimate goal, but to EXPECT to win one? I think most organizations are more realistic than that, even if their fanbases are not.

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01-25-2014, 07:05 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
I would disagree with that. I think every franchise wants to win a title, and has a championship as their ultimate goal, but to EXPECT to win one? I think most organizations are more realistic than that, even if their fanbases are not.
I don't want a front office with a losers mentality

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01-25-2014, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
I would disagree with that. I think every franchise wants to win a title, and has a championship as their ultimate goal, but to EXPECT to win one? I think most organizations are more realistic than that, even if their fanbases are not.
I think thats the big difference between good franchises year in and year out from an ownership stand point. Look at most of the teams on the top year in and year out, they expect to win championships and if they don't someone is getting out of town. Do they know they aren't always going to win one? Sure, but I bet if you ask Chicago's or Boston's owner if he expects to win another championship in the near future I bet that answer is yes.

Top teams in the league year in and year out expect to get one, coaches that just make the playoffs or just make it to the second round aren't sitting behind the bench long in major markets.

As far as getting a free pass, I see nothing from this ownership group that says they won't get one, as sad as that is imo.

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