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Your views on Dallas Eakins so far - Part II

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Old
01-25-2014, 12:36 AM
  #251
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Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
9 times out of 10, you out play a team by out shooting and out chancing you'll win. Every once in a while the goalie will steal a game. Just look at the Leafs, perfect example.

Or, the Oilers last season under Kreuger.



Renney was a lot better at running his bench.
He line matched at home and sheltered Hall and Eberle pretty well.
He also had Kreuger running his special teams.
The weird thing is my big gripe with Renney was I did not like the PP under him

At least until RNH got there.

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01-25-2014, 01:16 AM
  #252
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9 times out of 10, you out play a team by out shooting and out chancing you'll win. Every once in a while the goalie will steal a game. Just look at the Leafs, perfect example.
What about the Russian Red Army team?

How many times out of ten do you win if you score more goals than the other team?

Btw Lowetide was going on and on for months this year about how the Oilers were "pushing the river" and winning the Corsi war but they werent winning.

He finally stopped saying it because well, it was probably getting embarrassing.

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01-25-2014, 01:42 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
What about the Russian Red Army team?

How many times out of ten do you win if you score more goals than the other team?

Btw Lowetide was going on and on for months this year about how the Oilers were "pushing the river" and winning the Corsi war but they werent winning.

He finally stopped saying it because well, it was probably getting embarrassing.
What about them?

You're entitled to your own opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. It's my opinion that when you outplay your opposition and out shoot and out chance them, you're probably going to win. Sports aren't definite though, and sometimes **** happens.

How exactly do you think you score goals? By shooting and creating chances is my best guess. Or would you prefer the Oilers go the Randy Carlyle route and start playing the quality shot philosophy?

Lowetide probably wasn't expecting that sub 900 goaltending to last either, why don't you ask him?

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01-25-2014, 02:37 AM
  #254
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What about them?

You're entitled to your own opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. It's my opinion that when you outplay your opposition and out shoot and out chance them, you're probably going to win. Sports aren't definite though, and sometimes **** happens.

How exactly do you think you score goals? By shooting and creating chances is my best guess. Or would you prefer the Oilers go the Randy Carlyle route and start playing the quality shot philosophy?

Lowetide probably wasn't expecting that sub 900 goaltending to last either, why don't you ask him?

13 teams in the league have lost more games than they have won when they outshoot their opponent. 15 teams win more than they lose when they get outshot.

Outshooting an opponent doesn't actually seem to be that important to wins...

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01-25-2014, 04:01 AM
  #255
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I would hire renney back. The two years under Babcock prob did him wonders.
I'd love to read his hired back essay.

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01-25-2014, 09:16 AM
  #256
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Every team in the league makes mistakes every night. Our teams system is so poor that one mistake ends up in the back of the net. Where's the support? Teams should be able to make 2 or 3 mistakes before your picking it out of your net.

Good job Eakins! No way he makes it another season.

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01-25-2014, 10:20 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
13 teams in the league have lost more games than they have won when they outshoot their opponent. 15 teams win more than they lose when they get outshot.

Outshooting an opponent doesn't actually seem to be that important to wins...
How about out chancing?

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01-25-2014, 01:18 PM
  #258
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Last year's Oilers had 25% more points in 10% fewer games played. Their win % was 38% higher (.4875 vs .3396).

Last season after 48 games the Oilers, with the exception of Schultz and Schultz, were -32 collectively. This year after 53 games the rest of the team is below -200.

This year the Oilers top 11 scorers average -15.1, last year they averaged -1.3.

Gagner and Yakupov are having horrible seasons compared to last, to the point where their trade value is disappearing.


If one is to believe that an nhl coach can have any sort of effect on the overall play of a team it's pretty hard not to think that MacT's coaching swap at the beginning of the season was an absolute catastrophe.

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01-25-2014, 01:26 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say! View Post
Last year's Oilers had 25% more points in 10% fewer games played. Their win % was 38% higher (.4875 vs .3396).

Last season after 48 games the Oilers, with the exception of Schultz and Schultz, were -32 collectively. This year after 53 games the rest of the team is below -200.

This year the Oilers top 11 scorers average -15.1, last year they averaged -1.3.

Gagner and Yakupov are having horrible seasons compared to last, to the point where their trade value is disappearing.


If one is to believe that an nhl coach can have any sort of effect on the overall play of a team it's pretty hard not to think that MacT's coaching swap at the beginning of the season was an absolute catastrophe.
Why are you taking Schultz and Schultz out of it?

I just cant stand how Eakins is incompetent AND arrogant. He comes it and insults previous coaching staffs by claiming the players dont know how to play basic defence, they proceeds to coach his team to 3.5 GA/G. What an idiot.

If MacT keeps this incredibly bad coach just to save face, I hope the entire staff is fired. Embarrassing.

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01-25-2014, 01:32 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
13 teams in the league have lost more games than they have won when they outshoot their opponent. 15 teams win more than they lose when they get outshot.

Outshooting an opponent doesn't actually seem to be that important to wins...
It's the quality of shots that matter. If a team takes 50 shots and they're all from the outside with no one screening, a nhl goalie should be able to stop all 50. That's Corsi's main flaw. A better way to do it would be looking at the scoring chances created vs scoring chances against/60 min. That would give you a relative idea of how valuable a guy was to the team.

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01-25-2014, 01:57 PM
  #261
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It's kind of funny, typically the only arguments in favor of Eakins are because of continuity. They have nothing to do with him being a good coach.

He's basically sacrificing a first overall pick (Yakupov) and using him as a scapegoat for a lot of the team woes to try and succeed. If we were a playoff team, I could see placing development on the back burners, but as the 29th place team this is inexcusable. Average to below average coaches are a dime a dozen (it's not like were talking Hitchock or Babcock), where as first overall picks are not. I know which side I would pick.

I also think its very telling that none of the core youth have defended Eakins this year.

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01-25-2014, 03:30 PM
  #262
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Why are you taking Schultz and Schultz out of it?
J Schultz came in as a rookie with no training camp here and that's a bad situation to hang on the coach. I didn't use him against Krueger so I couldn't really use his stats against Eakins either.
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I just cant stand how Eakins is incompetent AND arrogant. He comes it and insults previous coaching staffs by claiming the players dont know how to play basic defence, they proceeds to coach his team to 3.5 GA/G. What an idiot.
If MacT keeps this incredibly bad coach just to save face, I hope the entire staff is fired. Embarrassing.
Lol. They didn't know the swarm.

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01-25-2014, 03:36 PM
  #263
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Team is screwed no matter who coaches them. They quit on the last few coaches, they have quit under Eakins and they'll quit under his replacement.

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01-25-2014, 03:44 PM
  #264
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Wouldn't be surprised once Montreal fires Therrien that we fire Eakins and hire Therrien.

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01-25-2014, 04:07 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
It's the quality of shots that matter. If a team takes 50 shots and they're all from the outside with no one screening, a nhl goalie should be able to stop all 50. That's Corsi's main flaw. A better way to do it would be looking at the scoring chances created vs scoring chances against/60 min. That would give you a relative idea of how valuable a guy was to the team.
I like the european method of tracking shots on net with dots on the overhead view of the defensive zone. They track the location of shots, blocked shots and goals.

By the end of the season all of those dots superimposed onto one sheet, like a census dotmap, will paint a pretty good picture of how many shots are coming from the different scoring areas.

If you track the "shot census dotmap" for each defenseman you could see how many were coming from their side when they were on the ice vs shots from the other side.

I think that you could probably write a book about every d man and most of the fwds on the team based on the patterns that emerge on their "s-c-d".

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01-25-2014, 04:34 PM
  #266
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Eakins was a factor in our poor record this year. That's for sure. I don't think his job is in danger so I hope he was bad because of inexperience. Maybe next season he will be ready for the nhl finally. I don't think he's there yet. I see improvement in some areas so that makes me feel optimistic.

Next season, with Eakins being more experienced, maybe some new associate coaches, and MacT getting players that Eakins wants, I can imagine this team coming together and winning finally.

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01-25-2014, 04:55 PM
  #267
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He's an arrogant dip **** and sorry to the mods if I get into trouble for that.

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01-25-2014, 05:32 PM
  #268
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Next season, with Eakins being more experienced, maybe some new associate coaches, and MacT getting players that Eakins wants, I can imagine this team coming together and winning finally.
Not trying to pick on you Mr Positive, but I see this posted alot and it kind of baffles me.

Name me 5 players that have looked good under Eakins. Getting players Eakins wants may result in us scrapping most of the roster. While for a lot of the players, it wouldn't be a bad thing, it may cause us to trade a young talented goal scorer who the coach pretty clearly dislikes.

Shouldn't a good coach be able to adapt to a roster and play to it's strengths?

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01-25-2014, 05:38 PM
  #269
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I don't care about this continuity thing. I think continuity with some of the a**-istants and the Upper management has gotten us in this mess. The new guy brings his staff.

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01-25-2014, 05:54 PM
  #270
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Not trying to pick on you Mr Positive, but I see this posted alot and it kind of baffles me.

Name me 5 players that have looked good under Eakins. Getting players Eakins wants may result in us scrapping most of the roster. While for a lot of the players, it wouldn't be a bad thing, it may cause us to trade a young talented goal scorer who the coach pretty clearly dislikes.

Shouldn't a good coach be able to adapt to a roster and play to it's strengths?
Case in point, Bill Belichick.....

Eakins is all about his way, never mind what kind of players he has. For christ sakes, we had Acton in the line up because he is an Eakins type and we see how well that work.

Eakins can **** right off.

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01-25-2014, 05:58 PM
  #271
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they just mentioned on HNIC Lowe offered to "take a sabbatical" and effectively step away from the team for a period, it was rejected by Katz.

Lowe declined all offers from various media outlets to comment on everything this past week.

Healy on things "6 SC cups, 2 gold medals, world cup, over 1000 games, why don't you get Joey Moss to step down. Get a goalie and all their problems go away"

MacLean "how do you go wrong with MacTavish and Lowe"

****ing idiots, but then again what else are they going to say

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01-25-2014, 06:10 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Not trying to pick on you Mr Positive, but I see this posted alot and it kind of baffles me.

Name me 5 players that have looked good under Eakins. Getting players Eakins wants may result in us scrapping most of the roster. While for a lot of the players, it wouldn't be a bad thing, it may cause us to trade a young talented goal scorer who the coach pretty clearly dislikes.

Shouldn't a good coach be able to adapt to a roster and play to it's strengths?
Nah, that's not picking on me. It's a fair point.

But what is "playing well"? Under Krueger wingers had little to no accountability. His system was well documented as basically being that wingers could endlessly cherry-pick, and so of course Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, and even Paajarvi would have very good years offensively. That doesn't mean that they were playing well. Their good years came at the expense of other players.

Eakins is at least attempting a whole-team approach. Like I said, I'm not giving Eakins a full endorsement, but I'm just choosing to take an optimistic view about him because I really don't believe his job is in jeopardy.

And just because it is the optimistic view doesn't mean that it is wrong. I do believe this team is playing a lot better now than at the beginning of the season, and I don't need to give the team the benefit of the doubt in order to do so.

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01-25-2014, 08:13 PM
  #273
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Nah, that's not picking on me. It's a fair point.

But what is "playing well"? Under Krueger wingers had little to no accountability. His system was well documented as basically being that wingers could endlessly cherry-pick, and so of course Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, and even Paajarvi would have very good years offensively. That doesn't mean that they were playing well. Their good years came at the expense of other players.

Eakins is at least attempting a whole-team approach. Like I said, I'm not giving Eakins a full endorsement, but I'm just choosing to take an optimistic view about him because I really don't believe his job is in jeopardy.

And just because it is the optimistic view doesn't mean that it is wrong. I do believe this team is playing a lot better now than at the beginning of the season, and I don't need to give the team the benefit of the doubt in order to do so.
Eakins is trying something where every player bar Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle from last season has regressed. The whole-team approach has also yielded far more GA than we did with Krueger's system. So while Krueger let his wingers do what they want, his team overall was defensively better, offensively better and a better overall team. I mean, any metric you use, the majority of the team has regressed under Eakins. Points, GA, defensive responsibility, hell even throw in effort and winning puck battles. We've gotten worse across the board.

Feel free to take any view you'd prefer, but Eakins is the main problem in my opinion. Krueger may or may not have been the answer, but he wouldn't be the unmitigated disaster that is Eakins. Krueger also had to play 48 games against soley teams in the West. Eakins' record against western teams is abysmal. I'd much rather throw away a bad coach than scrap majority of a roster.

Regarding scrapping head coaches, I thought the 'coaching graveyard' thread in the main board had some interesting points. Mainly about which other teams have had some pretty consistent coaching carousels:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Since Lemaire was first fired in 1998:

Ftorek (98-00)
Robinson (00-02, 06)
Constantine (02)
Burns (03-04)
Lamoriello (06, 07)
Julien (07)
Sutter (08-09)
Lemaire (10, 11)
MacLean (11)
DeBoer (12-present)

16 years. 10 coaches, 13 coaching changes. DeBoer has actually lasted the longest of them all.
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Montreal

Alain Vignault 1997-2000
Michel Therrien 2000-2003
Claude Julien 2003-2006
Bob Gainey 2006
Guy Carbonneau 2006-2009
Bob Gainey 2009
Jacques Martin 2009-2011
Randy Cunneyworth Interim 2011
Michel Therrien 2012-Current
Ottawa too have fired a few coaches quickly in their time:

Bryan Murray 05-07 (164 games)
Paddock 07-08 (64 games)
Murray 08 (18 games)
Hartsburg 08-09 (48 games)
Clouston 09-11 (198 games)
MacLean 11-present (130 games)

Islanders too:

Shaw 06 (40 games)
Nolan 06-08 (163 games)
Gordon 08-10 (181 games)
Capuano 10-present (195 games)

So it's a lot more common than I expected.

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01-26-2014, 05:23 PM
  #274
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Eakins is trying something where every player bar Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle from last season has regressed. The whole-team approach has also yielded far more GA than we did with Krueger's system. So while Krueger let his wingers do what they want, his team overall was defensively better, offensively better and a better overall team. I mean, any metric you use, the majority of the team has regressed under Eakins. Points, GA, defensive responsibility, hell even throw in effort and winning puck battles. We've gotten worse across the board.

Feel free to take any view you'd prefer, but Eakins is the main problem in my opinion. Krueger may or may not have been the answer, but he wouldn't be the unmitigated disaster that is Eakins. Krueger also had to play 48 games against soley teams in the West. Eakins' record against western teams is abysmal. I'd much rather throw away a bad coach than scrap majority of a roster.

Regarding scrapping head coaches, I thought the 'coaching graveyard' thread in the main board had some interesting points. Mainly about which other teams have had some pretty consistent coaching carousels:





Ottawa too have fired a few coaches quickly in their time:

Bryan Murray 05-07 (164 games)
Paddock 07-08 (64 games)
Murray 08 (18 games)
Hartsburg 08-09 (48 games)
Clouston 09-11 (198 games)
MacLean 11-present (130 games)

Islanders too:

Shaw 06 (40 games)
Nolan 06-08 (163 games)
Gordon 08-10 (181 games)
Capuano 10-present (195 games)

So it's a lot more common than I expected.
Fire Eakins, I'm sold on it now. He's the worst coach the Oilers have ever had.

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01-26-2014, 06:09 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Eakins is trying something where every player bar Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle from last season has regressed. The whole-team approach has also yielded far more GA than we did with Krueger's system. So while Krueger let his wingers do what they want, his team overall was defensively better, offensively better and a better overall team. I mean, any metric you use, the majority of the team has regressed under Eakins. Points, GA, defensive responsibility, hell even throw in effort and winning puck battles. We've gotten worse across the board.

Feel free to take any view you'd prefer, but Eakins is the main problem in my opinion. Krueger may or may not have been the answer, but he wouldn't be the unmitigated disaster that is Eakins. Krueger also had to play 48 games against soley teams in the West. Eakins' record against western teams is abysmal. I'd much rather throw away a bad coach than scrap majority of a roster.

Regarding scrapping head coaches, I thought the 'coaching graveyard' thread in the main board had some interesting points. Mainly about which other teams have had some pretty consistent coaching carousels:





Ottawa too have fired a few coaches quickly in their time:

Bryan Murray 05-07 (164 games)
Paddock 07-08 (64 games)
Murray 08 (18 games)
Hartsburg 08-09 (48 games)
Clouston 09-11 (198 games)
MacLean 11-present (130 games)

Islanders too:

Shaw 06 (40 games)
Nolan 06-08 (163 games)
Gordon 08-10 (181 games)
Capuano 10-present (195 games)

So it's a lot more common than I expected.
I totally agree...Look how Winnipeg has done since promoting Paul Maurice to head coach. They beat the undefeated "on home ice", Anaheim Ducks...



The season is a write-off now,
The players are obviously not buying into his system, wait until the off season, before looking for a new head coach..

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