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Do you think Poile & Trotz should get a free pass due to the Pekka injury ?

View Poll Results: Do you think Poile & Trotz will get a free pass this season ?
Yes 12 30.00%
No 28 70.00%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-25-2014, 06:26 PM
  #26
Iron Duke
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Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
I think thats the big difference between good franchises year in and year out from an ownership stand point. Look at most of the teams on the top year in and year out, they expect to win championships and if they don't someone is getting out of town. Do they know they aren't always going to win one? Sure, but I bet if you ask Chicago's or Boston's owner if he expects to win another championship in the near future I bet that answer is yes.

Top teams in the league year in and year out expect to get one, coaches that just make the playoffs or just make it to the second round aren't sitting behind the bench long in major markets.
Those organizations can take that stance because they have some of the most talented teams in the league. Certainly expectations for those teams are going to be higher than most. Boston and Chicago weren't expecting to win any championships a decade ago.

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01-25-2014, 06:34 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
Those organizations can take that stance because they have some of the most talented teams in the league. Certainly expectations for those teams are going to be higher than most. Boston and Chicago weren't expecting to win any championships a decade ago.
Alright then take someone that hasn't won. Philly? Rangers? Montreal? Toronto? Vancouver?

You think any of those teams have been happy with just making it to the playoffs? Don't you think every single person on those management staffs and coaches know not winning one will cost them their jobs? Thats expectation plain and simple.

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01-25-2014, 06:51 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
Alright then take someone that hasn't won. Philly? Rangers? Montreal? Toronto? Vancouver?

You think any of those teams have been happy with just making it to the playoffs? Don't you think every single person on those management staffs and coaches know not winning one will cost them their jobs? Thats expectation plain and simple.
Holmgren and Sather have survived just fine considering the expectations of those markets and some rosters that we would have killed for. Holland and Babcock have skated by with a Detroit team that hasn't done anything since '08 but just make the playoffs. Bylsma and the much-praised Shero have just one Cup despite two of the best players in the world leading their roster. McPhee continues to GM without results in Washington. All men that have pretty above-average expectations on their organizations and yet haven't produced.

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01-25-2014, 07:01 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
Holmgren and Sather have survived just fine considering the expectations of those markets and some rosters that we would have killed for. Holland and Babcock have skated by with a Detroit team that hasn't done anything since '08 but just make the playoffs. Bylsma and the much-praised Shero have just one Cup despite two of the best players in the world leading their roster. McPhee continues to GM without results in Washington. All men that have pretty above-average expectations on their organizations and yet haven't produced.


But how much longer will the Philly guys survive? My guess isn't long.

Holland and Babcock won a cup, buys you some time. Bylsma and Shero won a cup, buys you some time ( although Bylsma was thought to be on pretty shaky ground at one point).

Washington. Probably like us, not sure they or us expect to win anything.

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01-25-2014, 07:13 PM
  #30
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I have been frustrated with Poile since about 2004-ish when it was becoming apparent why he hasn't had success in building elite teams (passiveness, star-player relations, lack of foresight, etc). However, I still would've put him in the top half of GMs.

BUT, the last two years have been absolutely horrid and he's been one of the worst GMs in the league. We went from a team on the cusp of elite to lottery territory. One of the only good things (Erat-Forseberg), he only did because Martin Erat made him do it.

Poile has to go, but I think Trotz will go first just because when a GMs job is on the line, GMs fire their coach.

I hope ownership has the balls to fire Poile. Netural on Trotz-- he's always had to work with lesser talent here. If ownership thinks Housely could be a great coach, this is a good time to try-- it's going to take a while to right this ship.

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01-25-2014, 07:35 PM
  #31
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I was going to post, but this is close enough for me. DP and BT should have built a team strong enough to survive. They clearly have not done so. Hutton looked very good in the AHL, but he turned out to be a AAAA player in the NHL.

The Packers didn't have Aaron Rodgers for 7 weeks. Scott Tolzien came off the bench. Next game, the back-up, Seneca Wallace, made all of three downs before he was out for the season! Back to Tolzien. So they brought in Matt Flynn for Injury Game 3 and went 2-4-1 overall. Not good; but good enough to make the playoffs and go out in the first round. Sound familiar? The Packers bottom end equals the Preds top end. That needs to be fixed!
this is a perfect analogy except you got the conclusion absolutely backwards. Rodgers loss turned a really good team into a .500 team. If the packers hadnt been playing in the crappiest division in football which allowed them to make the playoffs with a .500 record, they would have been considered a failure. This preds team was going to be a marginal playoff team at best given how solid our division is. The fact that we have had no Rinne for three months and we are still hanging around the fringe if contention is pretty remarkable

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01-25-2014, 07:43 PM
  #32
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Anyone who says "no excuses" better be prepared for disappointment.

"No excuses" is valid if you have a team that you know should win but doesnt. If you think this team is that sort of team, then there is nothing I can say to you because you are delusional.

That said, I understand being disappointed year after year, and i assure you i am just as disappointed but to just say "no excuses, you should be winning a Cup" is clearly not based in reality

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01-25-2014, 08:45 PM
  #33
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The problem is, the ownership group gave the keys to Poile and essentially said, "Don't bother us unless it's about money." And because of that - and his relationship with Trotz - they're going to get a free pass.

The fans, though...

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01-26-2014, 12:45 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Here's a few problems with this,

1. You, 101 and I have discussed this ad nauseam about the goalies letting in softies, the team defense or lack thereof and when one is good the other isn't or vice versa or we have a game like we did against Vancouver and it all clicks or we have a game like last night where Dubnyk couldn't stop a beach ball if his life depended upon it. Dubnyk is a huge guy that plays small with a slider speed glove. If you know baseball terms you know what I'm referencing. He is not the athlete that Rinne or Lindback are and if you're going to be a little slower, you need to stay big. He doesn't. The one thing the trade did was made Hutton realize his job was on the line and in the two games he's played since we've acquired Dubnyk, he's looked like an NHL goalie. Hopefully that stays the case. Until the team learns to play together night in and night out, that means all 19 players, this team will remain inconsistent.

2. If you're basing your entire season on one player, like a Rinne, you have not constructed your team properly. No team can lose a superstar, I get that but other teams have and yet they keep rolling along. The Kings lost Quick for over a month and their backups came in and kicked butt. Other players have gone down over the years and other players have stepped up. We don't a roster where anyone can step up if someone goes down. This is a huge problem that hasn't been addressed. While I love having an all-world goalie, if he goes down, the entire ship seems to sink with him gone and that to me is poor roster development.

3. As far as the excuses go, last year it was injuries, this year it's Rinne, years ago in the playoffs it's because we were the lower seed then it was we were matched up against a San Jose team that we didn't match up well against. I remember making it to the second round and crying, like many of us did. We got over the hump, finally. Then we did it again the next year. Poile made a bunch of moves to make us a serious contender yet Trotz and the new mix of players didn't work out for whatever reason. Since then, this team has been a disaster and heading in the wrong direction. The owners gave Poile a budget to work with and he signed a bunch of grinders and guys that Trotz has no idea how to use. For all the complaints about Cullen, he's a solid playmaker playing with guys with stone hands on most nights yet we complain about his production when he's teamed with non-skilled guys. That's a coaching decision. Yet, he gets PP time with Smith and Spaling as the forwards and it works. So why is he not getting more time with skilled players?

4. At a certain point, people will stop going to games. I know I have. I ran in to a guy at work the other day who loves this team as much as I do and he's in the same boat, he has to be dragged to games at this point. When your loyal fan base is not interested in the team, what's going to happen to the casual fan? We are frustrated beyond belief and the email I got back from Sean Henry was less than inspiring about the direction of the team.

5. It's great having an NHL team in our city. The expectations of any franchise is to win a title. Cigarran and his fellow owners have pledged this to the fan base yet the moves that his hockey people have been making don't add up to building a contender. If any one of us can sit here and see the architecture of this team and us becoming a contender any time soon, I'm all ears but at some point, you have to get offensive players in the system via trades, the draft or free agency. It's been 15 years. Wychek the other day lambasted the GM for not going out and getting scorers. He was frustrated that for the last 10 years we haven't been able to do this. He tried to get Howard to agree with him but all the butt kisser would say was I don't disagree with you Frank. When the media who cover the team won't call the team out on occasion, what's the point. It's like we're all good old southern boys and we don't want to rock the boat. With anything in life you have to take chances to succeed and achieve greatness. Poile is good at playing it safe as is Trotz. If people want to continue to pay money and watch the product on the ice, that's their business but all I see and hear is excuses about why this isn't going well or something else isn't going well. A change could fail or it could work or we may stay stagnant. At this point, I see the same mistakes over and over on the ice and while I see the effort out there, the mental aspect is missing from a lot of these guys. I want more from the team and with the amount of money we're able to spend now, why are spending it on guys that are a dime a dozen as opposed to guys with actual hockey talent?

All that said, NO MORE EXCUSES.


They probably will be granted a free pass; however, I don't think it is deserved.

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01-26-2014, 01:04 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by jwhouk View Post
The problem is, the ownership group gave the keys to Poile and essentially said, "Don't bother us unless it's about money." And because of that - and his relationship with Trotz - they're going to get a free pass.

The fans, though...
I disagree, i think the fact that the ownership gave Poile a wad of cash to spend means he will have to answer to them for decreased attendance, decreased season ticket renewals, etc.

But Rinne's loss is the one thing we couldn't have and still be reasonably expected to contend. And so I feel certain that Poile will be given this summer to make sure when Rinne is back that we are competitive enough to win back the fans who are losing interest this season

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01-26-2014, 06:36 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
I disagree, i think the fact that the ownership gave Poile a wad of cash to spend means he will have to answer to them for decreased attendance, decreased season ticket renewals, etc.

But Rinne's loss is the one thing we couldn't have and still be reasonably expected to contend. And so I feel certain that Poile will be given this summer to make sure when Rinne is back that we are competitive enough to win back the fans who are losing interest this season
But this goes back to one of my points, if you're that dependent upon one guy on your roster to win, you haven't built your team properly.

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01-26-2014, 09:06 AM
  #37
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That pretty much explains the Edmonton Oilers from 1991 onwards.

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01-26-2014, 10:17 AM
  #38
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this is a perfect analogy except you got the conclusion absolutely backwards. Rodgers loss turned a really good team into a .500 team. If the packers hadnt been playing in the crappiest division in football which allowed them to make the playoffs with a .500 record, they would have been considered a failure. This preds team was going to be a marginal playoff team at best given how solid our division is. The fact that we have had no Rinne for three months and we are still hanging around the fringe if contention is pretty remarkable
The Packers were 8-7-1 in the regular season (.531). You must but adding their 23-20 playoff loss to SF make it 8-8-1. I believe that your statement is untrue. The NFC North two bottom teams (DET, MIN) had 12.5 wins of 29 divisional wins, the AFC South two bottom teams (JAX, HOU) had 6 wins of 24 divisional wins. You can believe the media hype, or you can look at some facts. For example, the Bears (8-8) defeated the entire AFC North division including playoff maker Cincinnati (11-5). What kind of division is that one? The Bears were 4-8 in the NFC. That makes me believe that in general, the AFC North and South divisions stink!

BTW, when you subtract the non-Rodgers games, the Packers were 6-3 with Rodgers playing full games. They also lost an offensive lineman and two starting receivers and their #1 defensive player, Clay Mathews. Against Chicago in the last regular season game, the Packers were using a linebacker that I had never heard of before. He was the #7 or #8 linebacker from the practice squad. Finley, the go to guy in the Red Zone, will probably never play again after his spinal fusion surgery. He gave the Packers a big edge near the goal. Thank God for Eddie Lacy this year. He looked like another Marchon Lynch on his way to the Rookie of the Year award.

The Preds are barely .500 in a league that gives 3 points in a tie game. The NFL only gives out 1 win per game, even if it is tied. That inflates the NHL records.


Last edited by adsfan: 01-26-2014 at 10:28 AM.
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01-26-2014, 10:29 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
I disagree, i think the fact that the ownership gave Poile a wad of cash to spend means he will have to answer to them for decreased attendance, decreased season ticket renewals, etc.

But Rinne's loss is the one thing we couldn't have and still be reasonably expected to contend. And so I feel certain that Poile will be given this summer to make sure when Rinne is back that we are competitive enough to win back the fans who are losing interest this season
That will be too late. Many STH are not renewing unless there is a major change. Given Poile a free pass because Rinne is not going to help. We are tired of excuses. And I agree with Glenn's point if you are that dependent on one guy, you have not built a team properly.

I will probably renew but I may drop to a half season.

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01-26-2014, 10:36 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Anyone who says "no excuses" better be prepared for disappointment.

"No excuses" is valid if you have a team that you know should win but doesnt. If you think this team is that sort of team, then there is nothing I can say to you because you are delusional.

That said, I understand being disappointed year after year, and i assure you i am just as disappointed but to just say "no excuses, you should be winning a Cup" is clearly not based in reality
Isn't "No Excuses" the sign that the Preds have, or did have for a long time, above their dressing room door?

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01-26-2014, 11:21 AM
  #41
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I have been frustrated with Poile since about 2004-ish when it was becoming apparent why he hasn't had success in building elite teams (passiveness, star-player relations, lack of foresight, etc). However, I still would've put him in the top half of GMs.

BUT, the last two years have been absolutely horrid and he's been one of the worst GMs in the league. We went from a team on the cusp of elite to lottery territory. One of the only good things (Erat-Forseberg), he only did because Martin Erat made him do it.

Poile has to go, but I think Trotz will go first just because when a GMs job is on the line, GMs fire their coach.

I hope ownership has the balls to fire Poile. Netural on Trotz-- he's always had to work with lesser talent here. If ownership thinks Housely could be a great coach, this is a good time to try-- it's going to take a while to right this ship.
I agree with this. The only thing I'll add that we have to remember what Trotz did with the 2006-2007 and 2011-2012 teams as well. Save for a terrible Red Wings team in 2012, Trotz was badly outcoached. His system doesn't work over the course of a 7 game series.

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01-26-2014, 02:52 PM
  #42
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A little off-topic, but does anybody have any information at all on Pekka's recovery at this point? We all know he's begun weight-bearing exercises under doctor supervision, but how is that coming along? Any update at all - seriously can't find anything on the guy right now.

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01-26-2014, 03:11 PM
  #43
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A little off-topic, but does anybody have any information at all on Pekka's recovery at this point? We all know he's begun weight-bearing exercises under doctor supervision, but how is that coming along? Any update at all - seriously can't find anything on the guy right now.
Nothing. We may get some news after the team comes home from the road trip on Wednesday.

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01-27-2014, 03:47 AM
  #44
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My guess is you don't hear much until after the Olympic break tbh. You may get " he's improving" or something like that, but I think that is the make or break point. If he isn't ready by then I think they just shut him down for the season and make sure he is good and healthy. If the team has little to no shot at making the playoffs, there is zero reason to rush him back.

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01-27-2014, 07:48 AM
  #45
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For Trotz yes. For Poile no. Poile is the one who didn't sign a more veteran goalie knowing Rinne was coming in off an injury. With that said what happened was a freak thing and no one on earth could have predicted it.

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01-27-2014, 08:04 AM
  #46
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For Trotz yes. For Poile no. Poile is the one who didn't sign a more veteran goalie knowing Rinne was coming in off an injury. With that said what happened was a freak thing and no one on earth could have predicted it.
Even so, there is no reason why the team should have as many games where they play as bad as they did last night. It seems as though almost everytime they play a team that is ranked right around or worse than themselves, this kind of thing happens, yet they can play a good team and look like superstars. That is on the Coach and players not David Poile. Very few players gave any effort last night. At this point I am almost for (not that it will happen) dumping 90-95% of the team and calling up the entire Milwaukee team. At least they will play with effort.

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02-04-2014, 09:13 PM
  #47
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Hum. The Jets are 9-2-0 since firing their coach.

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02-05-2014, 12:22 AM
  #48
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Every year is a different excuse. Winners don't make excuses, they rise to the occasion.
This just true for the coach and gm? Why is the team not held accountable? If they are held accountable, how much in your opinion? Why don't they rise to the occasion?

Blame poile if you need a scapegoat or excuse this year, but trotz has done wonders with this roster...yet again this year. He may not play the style you want to see, but getting the results he has with a consistent ahl roster is pretty damn good. And the rest of the league knows it. Your all pissed we haven't won a division/conference/cup...get real...never gonna happen unless the players we have overachieve and rise to the occasion.

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