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Old
01-26-2014, 12:06 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
The fact of the matter is that absolutely nobody here doesn't want the team to be perennial challengers for the cup. People disagree about how to go about that. Nobody is happy with not winning.
People also seem to disagree about what being a "contender" means.

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I disagree that Zucc has established himself as a top RW. His period of solid production is an extremely small sample. They trade Callahan for futures, Zucc goes back to last year's form, or even keeps doing what he's done on "off" nights this year - then what? They'd probably wish they had another top 6 RW who could over perform in a third line role and be very solid in a second line role. I get that they have to strike while the window is open here, but I think we're deluding ourselves a little bit assuming that Zucc will be at his best from here on out. It'd be a gamble.
Well in that case we should probably also have another top-six LW in case Kreider takes a step back, and a third top-six center in case Stepan gets hurt, and another #1 goalie in case Lundqvist gets hurt. It's a poor argument to say that we need a $6M 3rd line RW in case someone gets hurt, or if Zuccarello regresses. Playing a game of hypotheticals is just a waste of time. You're gambling as much on Callahan not being injured, or even earning a $6M contract, as you are Zucc not regressing.

The fact of the matter is that if Sather went out and spent $6M on a 50 point checking forward this summer, this board would melt down. People are far too emotionally invested in Callahan because he's the captain and is a home grown player.

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01-26-2014, 12:29 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
He is only like Callahan in a superficial sense(i.e two way forward). He is a natural center who can play hard nose like Cally, but he also has the vision and playmaking ability that Cally does not. He is also a bigger kid with a much higher athletic ceiling.

Miller is our future 2nd line center imo. He is even more of sure thing in the long run than someone like Stepan.
Well said.
Only disagreement is on how fast we perceive Miller can be readied.
You guys are saying he needs time, time, and more time.

I'm saying this is a smart kid.
The only one fast enough to enhance Kreider's speed, given his own (a point that is factually true, which you guys refuse to acknowledge).

And we can save a huge amount of time in working on different combos and tell him going forward he'll be with Kreider and Cally this year, barring trade, and possibly Kristo next year. But he can cement second line with Kreider.

If you take a lot of uncertainty out of the equation, give him extra hands on tutoring at least 3-4 x a wk, etc., you can have him "comfortable enough" to be "functionally useful" there by playoffs. Then by next year, we have moved on and advanced with such development and he can start to work on "kick ass".

But you gotta bite that bullet NOW.

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01-26-2014, 12:35 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
It doesn't matter. I'm not in charge of personnel decisions.

How long are you asking me the question for? 1 year? Callahan. 5 years? Miller.

This team is geared for now. Now. Now. Everyone should realize that. We're in it for the now. As much as I hate that there is probably no future planning going on with this club, our window is now.

Meaning we're likely looking at Callahan, Girardi, Boyle, and the likes all returning next season.

The one thing that gives me hope for turnover is that we have a new coach. He'll have a big say in who remains, who doesn't.

He had some serious skill in Vancouver with the Sedin's. On this team, his skill is more evenly distributed, but I'm not so certain he'll have it that way.

There will be turnover, but Sather is in it for the now. So what does that mean? That means if we trade Callahan, IF (big if), we'll trade him for someone veteran.

I'd love Miller on this team, I think he'd be better for us than Poo, but both Sather and AV prefer the vets.

I think we see at most 2 rookies in uniform for us on the defense next year, and at most 2 rookies for us on the offense next year. I personally believe Kristo is going to be ready... in reality I don't think he sniffs the NHL for another year and a half unless it is for another organization. I think Miller will lock a spot for next year, on the 3rd line. Lindberg (MAYBE) on the 4th line, if he really really impresses.

Aside from that, get ready for some more veteran players. AV likes a fast paced game. Girardi doesn't fit that, Cally fits it better. I think it's more likely we trade G than C. That being said, I think the team's success hinges on Girardi more than it does on Callahan... quite the conundrum.

Up until a few days ago, I was fairly certain that both would be resigned, that we'd be big time buyers at the deadline and try to make noise with the personnel we have on board. After these last few games... I'm not so certain. I thought DZ would have been traded for some offense. We got a stay at home defensive defender for him. Removes leverage from Girardi's camp. Had we gotten a similar player to Cally for DZ I would be saying the same thing about him. Even more telling is AV experimenting with Klein and Stralman moving up slots, with Girardi moving to the 3rd pairing.

The deadline is a little under 2 weeks away. Girardi's price will be a huge one to pay for whichever team trades for him. I'm more than expecting a big time offensive chip to be coming our way if we trade G. Not prospects, someone established. Stastny? Kessler? I could even see us trading Girardi to someone like the Kings for Mike Richards and something else. I would imagine Cally stays, Girardi goes.

Disagree big time.
We have only outside chance of getting lucky to go all the way.
We do have a lot.
If we can go a little backwards NOW to get ahead SOON, that is the ticket.

But those trades and moves MUST BE MADE NOW.

Not trying to be arrogant jerk here, saying it respectfully:
gotta yield to the logic of this situation, like it or not, or we will continue to make playoff appearances, but with early exits, and overall development will be slowed.

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Old
01-26-2014, 12:51 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
What does adding Callahan to Chicago have to do with anything?
Don't see Chicago dealing for Cally, unless somehow it is a gimme.
They are actively interested in a 2c, according to a poster on my value of Stepan.

All remain welcome to CONSTRUCTIVE input as to what is the highest price he commands, then asking if that makes it worth to deal.

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01-26-2014, 01:02 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Disagree big time.
We have only outside chance of getting lucky to go all the way.
We do have a lot.
If we can go a little backwards NOW to get ahead SOON, that is the ticket.

But those trades and moves MUST BE MADE NOW.

Not trying to be arrogant jerk here, saying it respectfully:
gotta yield to the logic of this situation, like it or not, or we will continue to make playoff appearances, but with early exits, and overall development will be slowed.
I think you're misreading what I wrote. I agree that one or both should be traded for futures. I'm being a realist here though. The F.O is in it for the now.

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Old
01-26-2014, 01:40 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Of course they are a "contending" team.

I think some of you forget the pre lockout teams that really weren't in contention.
Do you consider the Predators of the last 6 or 7 years a "contending" team as well?

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Old
01-26-2014, 03:11 PM
  #332
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Seven even strength goals must be throwing RangerBoy over the edge.

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Old
01-26-2014, 03:15 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Seven even strength goals must be throwing RangerBoy over the edge.
Yeah, and Callahan and Girardi both played enormous roles in the beatdown.

Oh wait...

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Old
01-26-2014, 03:16 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Do you consider the Predators of the last 6 or 7 years a "contending" team as well?
Nashville didn't make the playoffs in 2 of the last 5 years, didn't finish 1st in their conference, and didn't make it to the ECF's. No, not on the same level. Competitive, yes.

I expected more from the 2005-6 team, too, but Jagr got hurt on that foolish play.

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01-26-2014, 03:20 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Yeah, and Callahan and Girardi both played enormous roles in the beatdown.

Oh wait...
Yeah, because they have to be the sole reason the team wins every game that it does in order to be worthy. Callahan does have an assist, btw.

Girardi, though, is somehow a -1.

(edit) Maybe we should trade high on McD, too, he was a -1 also.


Last edited by haohmaru: 01-26-2014 at 03:27 PM.
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Old
01-26-2014, 03:34 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Nashville didn't make the playoffs in 2 of the last 5 years, didn't finish 1st in their conference, and didn't make it to the ECF's. No, not on the same level. Competitive, yes.

I expected more from the 2005-6 team, too, but Jagr got hurt on that foolish play.
So one season of relative success puts us on a higher level? Not buying it. We've seen this team barely squeak into the playoffs more often than not, and we've advanced beyond the 2nd round once. We're on the exact same level as teams like the Predators. Good enough to make it, but never good enough to really win anything of significance.

Average. It's good enough for Rangers fans.

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Old
01-26-2014, 03:49 PM
  #337
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Trade Zucc
He costs too much (definitely not contract worthy), is soft, has no grit, is a dwarf & is not an NHL player in any way (and he is Norwegian)
Please Glen

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Old
01-26-2014, 03:54 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Trade Zucc
He costs too much (definitely not contract worthy), is soft, has no grit, is a dwarf & is not an NHL player in any way (and he is Norwegian)
Please Glen
NY says No waY to NorwaY trade 'em

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Old
01-26-2014, 03:57 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
So one season of relative success puts us on a higher level? Not buying it. We've seen this team barely squeak into the playoffs more often than not, and we've advanced beyond the 2nd round once. We're on the exact same level as teams like the Predators. Good enough to make it, but never good enough to really win anything of significance.

Average. It's good enough for Rangers fans.
I look at it this way:

Goalie - Top notch

Defense - MCD - GIR
Stl - STRL
Klein -Mor

Some weakness to Moore's D but gd puck movement
Overall a top notch D

PP - Average to good
PP D - GD

The problem---

Lack of 5 on 5 scoring.

Nash and the PP is carrying the team now so they look competitive.

After Nash are we looking at 4 or 5 players projected to score 16-20 goals?

The team needs the 1st line center and a secondary sniper.

Score a few more goals and the other flaws would become less noticeable.

The current team, an early to mid KO. Pick up a player (at what cost? / salary etc?) or two and maybe they could go somewhat further?

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Old
01-26-2014, 04:04 PM
  #340
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Buying out Richards and then signing Stastny would be a huge upgrade. How realistic is that, though? There's going to be a huge bidding war for Stastny. He seems exactly like the kind of player the Rangers need.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm not buying the Stastny love nor do I understand it. He's produced decently his last 2-3 years but isn't worth 6.5-7 per.

Why should we buyout Richards and then give a a 7 year deal with a similar cap-hit (6.5-7 million/year) to another guy who's nearly 30 whose best days are likely behind him? That's a recipe for disaster. Stastny isn't the answer, the only reason you guys are all trying to justify signing him is because he's the only decent center who will be available.

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01-26-2014, 04:09 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by zuckera1 View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm not buying the Stastny love nor do I understand it. He's produced decently his last 2-3 years but isn't worth 6.5-7 per.

Why should we buyout Richards and then give a a 7 year deal with a similar cap-hit (6.5-7 million/year) to another guy who's nearly 30 whose best days are likely behind him? That's a recipe for disaster. Stastny isn't the answer, the only reason you guys are all trying to justify signing him is because he's the only decent center who will be available.
Rangers are in a tough bind. Richards is too risky to keep around and they need to readdress their first line center position.

Stanstny is what is available.

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01-26-2014, 04:09 PM
  #342
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Stastny at least seems to have more in the tank than Richards and Stastny is excellent defensively. His production would be higher in Colorado if he was used differently. He matches up against other teams top scorers every night and still produces well. Here he would be on the top line.

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01-26-2014, 04:12 PM
  #343
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I'd rather trade for Spezza than sign Stastny. Spezza is a legit first line center. Stastny is a rich-man's Stepan. Stastny isn't a player that can be a difference maker in the playoffs.

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01-26-2014, 04:15 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Rangers are in a tough bind. Richards is too risky to keep around and they need to readdress their first line center position.

Stanstny is what is available.
Wasn't that the justification for signing Brad? "He's the best center available and we need a first-line center." That's what I heard when we gave a 31 year old player a 9 year deal. Didn't work out.

Stastny is not the answer.

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01-26-2014, 04:16 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by SERE 24 View Post
Stastny at least seems to have more in the tank than Richards and Stastny is excellent defensively. His production would be higher in Colorado if he was used differently. He matches up against other teams top scorers every night and still produces well. Here he would be on the top line.
To be fair, getting Statsny has potential to be a complete disaster. He has suffered injuries. He has only had one real great season which was 79 points. He is moving towards 30.

He also doesn't address the PP like Richards does(which is going to be a bit of a hole).

Its risky. Stepan has comparable numbers to Statsny(even though I don't considered Derek to be a legit #1). Statsny may be too little "bang for your buck" to sign.

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01-26-2014, 04:19 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by zuckera1 View Post
Wasn't that the justification for signing Brad? "He's the best center available and we need a first-line center." That's what I heard when we gave a 31 year old player a 9 year deal. Didn't work out.

Stastny is not the answer.
Well, Richards was a need and did a good job his first and this season. The lockout screwed the Rangers out of their championship window. I don't put all of that on Richards(I don't consider him a bust).

Richards would be on the team next year if the new CBA didn't screw the Rangers over.

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01-26-2014, 04:19 PM
  #347
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I think Stastny can be a difference maker. I feel he's underrated because people look at his numbers and want more from a "#1 center" but don't realize how defensive a role he's playing in Colorado, nor how good he is at it. At the same time, I'm neither for or against signing Stastny. If we can get him at the same cap hit as Richards (especially for less years) than I'm all for it; trading Richards for Stastny makes us better. Spezza is certainly better, but Spezza costs assets, not just cap space, and I don't like that. Spezza won't be traded for peanuts, by any stretch of the imagination.

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01-26-2014, 04:21 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by SERE 24 View Post
I think Stastny can be a difference maker. I feel he's underrated because people look at his numbers and want more from a "#1 center" but don't realize how defensive a role he's playing in Colorado, nor how good he is at it. At the same time, I'm neither for or against signing Stastny. If we can get him at the same cap hit as Richards (especially for less years) than I'm all for it; trading Richards for Stastny makes us better. Spezza is certainly better, but Spezza costs assets, not just cap space, and I don't like that. Spezza won't be traded for peanuts, by any stretch of the imagination.
Would you trade Staal + JT Miller for Spezza? I would.

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01-26-2014, 04:22 PM
  #349
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Would you trade Staal + JT Miller for Spezza? I would.
That is terrible. Spezza has a bad back. Do not want.

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01-26-2014, 04:23 PM
  #350
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Would you trade Staal + JT Miller for Spezza? I would.
But are we better next year:

Minus Staal
Minus Miller
Plus Spezza

Or

Plus Stastny

??

I don't think it's a question.

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