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Old
01-23-2014, 02:04 PM
  #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
2 Schenn's for Eberle + 2nd

I want that to happen.

Vinny/Coots as 2nd line C.
Laughton ready for the NHL - 3rd line C
4th VV or Hall.

Coburn - Girardi
Grossmann - Striet
Gus - Greene

We LACK a TRUE SNIPER..... when was the last time we had a SNIPER?

I think with better mobility in the D we could get away with NOT having a #1 for now.
The only way I am moving B Schenn is for a great defenseman coming back. Bob Mac even said the same when there were rumors(started by Dreger of course) about Schenn being available earlier this year. If we are looking for a great defenseman, we won't be looking Edmontons way.

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01-23-2014, 03:53 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
The only way I am moving B Schenn is for a great defenseman coming back. Bob Mac even said the same when there were rumors(started by Dreger of course) about Schenn being available earlier this year. If we are looking for a great defenseman, we won't be looking Edmontons way.
I'd actually consider trading Schenn to Phoenix for, say, Gormley and a 1st. Then, say everyone finishes where they currently sit, we'd have the 15th and 17th overall picks.

I think there's a decent chance that one of McKeown or Fluery slip to #15, so you take one of them. (If both of them go beforehand, maybe a guy like jake virtanen is there)

Then with the 17th overall, I'd look to Alex Tuch. Big bodied winger with skill who could be a great fit for Giroux in the future.

So you sacrifice Brayden Schenn and end up with Gormley and one of McKeown, Fleury or Virtanen.

Gormley, Morin, Fleury/McKeown, Hagg & Gostisbehere is a great looking pool of defenseman going forward. I'd have to think one of them could conceivably emerge as a #1.

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01-23-2014, 04:00 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
I'd actually consider trading Schenn to Phoenix for, say, Gormley and a 1st. Then, say everyone finishes where they currently sit, we'd have the 15th and 17th overall picks.

I think there's a decent chance that one of McKeown or Fluery slip to #15, so you take one of them. (If both of them go beforehand, maybe a guy like jake virtanen is there)

Then with the 17th overall, I'd look to Alex Tuch. Big bodied winger with skill who could be a great fit for Giroux in the future.

So you sacrifice Brayden Schenn and end up with Gormley and one of McKeown, Fleury or Virtanen.

Gormley, Morin, Fleury/McKeown, Hagg & Gostisbehere is a great looking pool of defenseman going forward. I'd have to think one of them could conceivably emerge as a #1.
I understand your thinking, but I don't want to move Schenn without that player being established in the NHL. I also don't think the Yotes trade Gormley+1st for him.

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01-23-2014, 08:13 PM
  #329
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Keep Giroux, Voracek, B. Schenn, Simmonds, Couturier, Read, and Cobrun. Trade everyone else for yellow snow

Edit: Fire Holmgren first

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Old
01-23-2014, 08:27 PM
  #330
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I would trade all the UFA's out & possibly try to move one of Grossmann or Schenn out.

If you can get picks for next years draft opposed to this upcoming one I would do it even if they're a lesser pick.

Stockpile some assets & assess where you want to go in the offseason with hopefully a new GM.

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01-23-2014, 08:56 PM
  #331
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Can we just trade all the D, apart from maybe Coburn and Gus as a 6#, for anything and sign the best 4 UFA's? The D would be cheaper and far better.

Boyle (6m)-Coburn (4.5m)
Girardi (5.5m)-MacDonald (4.5m)
Gus (1.2m)-Nikitin (3.5m)
Alt (781k)

Overall: $25.981m

vs

Timonen (6m)-Coburn (4.5m)
Streit ($5.25m)-Grossmann (3.5m)
Mez (4m)-Schenn (3.6m)
Gus (1m)

Overall: $27.75m

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Old
01-23-2014, 09:15 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
Can we just trade all the D, apart from maybe Coburn and Gus as a 6#, for anything and sign the best 4 UFA's? The D would be cheaper and far better.

Boyle (6m)-Coburn (4.5m)
Girardi (5.5m)-MacDonald (4.5m)
Gus (1.2m)-Nikitin (3.5m)
Alt (781k)

Overall: $25.981m

vs

Timonen (6m)-Coburn (4.5m)
Streit ($5.25m)-Grossmann (3.5m)
Mez (4m)-Schenn (3.6m)
Gus (1m)

Overall: $27.75m
It's sad that this actually makes sense

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Old
01-23-2014, 09:18 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
It's sad that this actually makes sense
Yeh... it is absurd that (even though it is borderline impossible) a UFA constructed D would be both better and cheaper than our current D... in a cap era!

You could give MacDonald 5.5mil and Girardi 6m and it would still be cheaper!

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01-23-2014, 09:24 PM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I would trade all the UFA's out & possibly try to move one of Grossmann or Schenn out.

If you can get picks for next years draft opposed to this upcoming one I would do it even if they're a lesser pick.

Stockpile some assets & assess where you want to go in the offseason with hopefully a new GM.
I agree. If Lecavalier and Hartnell waive their NMC I would be happy to send them off too. I just can't fathom how bad our defense is:

Coburn: Solid top-4
Timonen: Old
Streit: Better then some people give him credit for, but still top-6 at best
Grossmann: Blocks shots and hits... that is about it.
Schenn: He can have a couple good games... key word 'couple'.
Mez: He does not even know how to defense
Gus: Why does he not get playing time?

Here are next few opponents:

Flyers vs. Bruins (31-15-3)
Flyers vs. Red Wings (22-18-10)
Flyers vs. Ducks (37-10-5) it is at Anaheim so...
Flyers vs. Kings (29-16-6)
Flyers vs. Sharks (32-12-6)
Flyers vs. Avalanche (31-13-5)

I have a feeling the Flyers will go 1-5 during this span and a new GM will take over.

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Old
01-23-2014, 09:32 PM
  #335
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I think as individuals the defencemen are not awful... they are all NHL calibre and in the right scenario can be successes.

But it is like a Frankensteins monster of a defence.

Coburn: Top 4 dman on most teams, great D, if inconsistent. (#3-4)

Kimmo: Once great D man, still good defensively and actually quite complete two ways, though his offence is missing this year. (#2-3)

Streit: PP QB, good offensively, not great defensively. (#4)

Grossmann: Solid defensive D man. Blocks, PKs etc. (#5)

Schenn : Inconsistent as hell, last year looked to be something, this year looks crap. (#5-6 this year, #3-4 last year.)

Mez: Can score vs other teams 4th lines... can join a rush and look good when paired with a defensive stalwart and given piss easy minutes (#4-6 depending on team, situation.)

Gus: Not given a chance, but seems a solid #5-6 who would be our most 'complete' D man after Kimmo is two way ability... even if that does not say much.

Gill: Frankensteins monster.

It looks like an 8 year old playing NHL 14.

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01-23-2014, 10:15 PM
  #336
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Everything about this team just feels slow, and beyond slow on defense, except for Coburn. Any new defenseman we get need to be good skaters.

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Old
01-24-2014, 03:42 AM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
Yeh... it is absurd that (even though it is borderline impossible) a UFA constructed D would be both better and cheaper than our current D... in a cap era!

You could give MacDonald 5.5mil and Girardi 6m and it would still be cheaper!
At least there is still hope. We would have to trade them though which would be the harder part.

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Old
01-24-2014, 05:08 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
At least there is still hope. We would have to trade them though which would be the harder part.
I think Mezz and kimmo are gone after the year no matter what. I can't think of anyone except the Islanders that would take Streit. Luke Schenn may be able to be packaged with his brother in a deal. If not, I can't see any team trading for him or even picking him up off of waivers. Grossmann can be moved though at the deadline as he would be a very good third pair and penalty kill acquisition for a championship calibre team. With the cap going up, his contract isn't that bad.

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Old
01-24-2014, 07:18 AM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
Can we just trade all the D, apart from maybe Coburn and Gus as a 6#, for anything and sign the best 4 UFA's? The D would be cheaper and far better.

Boyle (6m)-Coburn (4.5m)
Girardi (5.5m)-MacDonald (4.5m)
Gus (1.2m)-Nikitin (3.5m)
Alt (781k)

Overall: $25.981m

vs

Timonen (6m)-Coburn (4.5m)
Streit ($5.25m)-Grossmann (3.5m)
Mez (4m)-Schenn (3.6m)
Gus (1m)

Overall: $27.75m
This is basically what I said on the previous page. The D can't continue as constructed, but there are options in FA for Holmgren to go after as long as he's not occupied with one of the big name FA's.

The defense could be a lot better next year by subtracting out 3 guys and replacing them with 3 similar caliber dmen that are better skaters. They don't need Shea Weber to make the team better, they need a faster Schenn, a bigger Gus, and another Coburn.

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01-24-2014, 07:18 AM
  #340
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I understand your thinking, but I don't want to move Schenn without that player being established in the NHL.
Yeah, that is not happening. The D is terrible. If trading Schenn can get a d-man with potential I would do it, but this is more of an off-season trade unless a new GM comes in before the season is over.

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Old
01-24-2014, 10:01 AM
  #341
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While I doubt the Flyers will be sellers at the deadline, no matter their position in the standings, what do you think the worth of these players would be -- Grossmann, L. Schenn, Downie (UFA), Hartnell (NMC), Timonen (UFA, NMC), and Streit (35+)?

Though, if Kimmo's retiring I'd probably keep Streit.

Edit: According to Capgeek, Grossmann has a modified NTC.

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01-26-2014, 04:42 PM
  #342
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Timonen is the only one who might get a 1st rounder back IMO. The others could get 2nds and lesser prospects.

If I was Holmgren or whoever the GM will be, I would try and get Edmonton's 2015 1st rounder instead of their 2014 1st rounder in a deal. That should scream "bold" for MacT with that pick most likely a lottery one!

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01-26-2014, 05:44 PM
  #343
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Timonen is the only one who might get a 1st rounder back IMO. The others could get 2nds and lesser prospects.

If I was Holmgren or whoever the GM will be, I would try and get Edmonton's 2015 1st rounder instead of their 2014 1st rounder in a deal. That should scream "bold" for MacT with that pick most likely a lottery one!
I wish we could get their 2015 pick. If we trade to get their 2014 1st, we might be bad enough to get a very nice pick in 2015.

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01-26-2014, 05:52 PM
  #344
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If I was Holmgren or whoever the GM will be, I would try and get Edmonton's 2015 1st rounder instead of their 2014 1st rounder in a deal. That should scream "bold" for MacT with that pick most likely a lottery one!
They're dumb but unfortunately I don't think they're that dumb to trade off their 2015 pick. However I could see them moving their 2014 pick & a player like Yakupov to get some more pieces that actually would fit their team & speed up the process a little more.

They still have Nurse & Klefbom in the system who have a shot at making the club next year (Nurse got his 9 games & made it tough on Edmonton to send back this year) to calm some of the fans down if they don't get a defensive prospect this year.

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Old
01-26-2014, 06:54 PM
  #345
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We could just go crazy and get all the fast/good defencemen skaters who would not cost too much.

Trade for Ryan Murphy from Carolina (tbh that is not an awful idea, guy is getting ****ed around, if his D develops more he will be awesome)
Trade for Nick Leddy (that would actually be an awesome trade)

Actually use these two as NHL d men...

Then the cunning bit:

Trade for Trevor Daley
Get Kyle Cumiskey back to the NHL.

Then chop their legs off and glue/stitch them onto Schenn and Kimmo.

Schenn may look strange with small black legs... but he would be fast... Kimmo would be able to play to age 70 with Cumiskeys legs.

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01-26-2014, 07:21 PM
  #346
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This is a cup contending team

Trade Couts, Coburn our 1st to Edmonton for their 1st, Eberle
Kimmo to a contender for a 1st
2nd Hartnel for a 1st
Grossman for a 2nd
Downie for a 2nd

Draft Ekblad


Trade 1 of our 2 1sts, a 2nd PLUS Vinny for Jets, Big Buff
Leaves us with one 1st and one 2nd for this draft/more trades
Sign Vanek, Girardi

Vanek Giroux Vora
Eberle Schenn Simmer
Read Laughton (Drafted Winger, FA pickup)
Raffl Hall Goulbourne

Buff Ekblad
Str8 Girardi
Schenn Morin/gus


Last edited by Grare: 01-27-2014 at 01:05 AM.
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01-26-2014, 09:54 PM
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grare View Post
This is a cup contending team

Trade Couts, Coburn our 1st to Edmonton for their 1st, Eberle
Kimmo to a contender for a 1st
2nd Hartnel for a 1st
Grossman for a 2nd
Downie for a 2nd

Draft Ekblad


Trade 1 of our 2 1sts, a 2nd PLUS Vinny for Jets, Big Buff
Leaves us with one 1st and one 2nd for this draft/more trades
Sign Vanek, Girardi

Vanek Giroux Vora
Eberle Schenn Simmer
Read Laughton (Drafted Winger, FA pickup)
Mcginn Hall Goulbourne

Buff Ekblad
Str8 Girardi
Schenn Morin/gus


You copied someone else's thread, and it was a stupid thread to copy. No one is giving up a first for Timonen. Nobody is taking on Hartnell's contract. You aren't going to trade for Buff, and why would WPG take Vinny's albatross, regardless of what they are getting back. That's a salary dump, and you'll have to give more than a 1st rounder for him. You aren't getting Vanek. No no no.

EDIT: Buff has a modified NMC and can submit 5 team he would not be traded to. Doubt the Flyers are on the list...just interesting information.

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01-26-2014, 11:19 PM
  #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grare View Post
This is a cup contending team

Trade Couts, Coburn our 1st to Edmonton for their 1st, Eberle
Kimmo to a contender for a 1st
2nd Hartnel for a 1st
Grossman for a 2nd
Downie for a 2nd

Draft Ekblad


Trade 1 of our 2 1sts, a 2nd PLUS Vinny for Jets, Big Buff
Leaves us with one 1st and one 2nd for this draft/more trades
Sign Vanek, Girardi

Vanek Giroux Vora
Eberle Schenn Simmer
Read Laughton (Drafted Winger, FA pickup)
Mcginn Hall Goulbourne

Buff Ekblad
Str8 Girardi
Schenn Morin/gus
I'd pick apart everything that's wrong with this post but I'm not sure I'd live long enough to finish...

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01-26-2014, 11:27 PM
  #349
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You copied someone else's thread, and it was a stupid thread to copy. No one is giving up a first for Timonen. Nobody is taking on Hartnell's contract. You aren't going to trade for Buff, and why would WPG take Vinny's albatross, regardless of what they are getting back. That's a salary dump, and you'll have to give more than a 1st rounder for him. You aren't getting Vanek. No no no.

EDIT: Buff has a modified NMC and can submit 5 team he would not be traded to. Doubt the Flyers are on the list...just interesting information.
I do not agree with this guys plan but, analysis of his plan is not much better.

Timonen can definitely fetch a late first round pick if traded at the deadline to a contender. The 2014 draft is nothing special a team would definitely bite, and I assume Kimmo would waive his NMC if he were traded to a contender.

Hartnell has 30 points through 49 games. Although he does make a few bonehead plays, a 2nd round pick + Hartnell should be easily able to acquire a 1st round pick. Hartnell alone may be able to acquire that pick. Also with the cap jumping up, his contract does not look all that bad. I am sure a team like St. Louis would be happy to add scoring depth like Hartnell for a late first rounder in a mediocre draft.

Once again, although Vinny's value has dropped he is still tradable if he waives his NTC.

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01-27-2014, 12:35 AM
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raffl House View Post


You copied someone else's thread, and it was a stupid thread to copy. No one is giving up a first for Timonen. Nobody is taking on Hartnell's contract. You aren't going to trade for Buff, and why would WPG take Vinny's albatross, regardless of what they are getting back. That's a salary dump, and you'll have to give more than a 1st rounder for him. You aren't getting Vanek. No no no.

EDIT: Buff has a modified NMC and can submit 5 team he would not be traded to. Doubt the Flyers are on the list...just interesting information.

I swear on my life I didn't... great minds think alike, we need a rebuild' actually, not even that.. we need a Re-Tool
Better Defense/ 2 snipers/ and team speed/
3 things this accomplishes, all while getting younger, PLUS if my calculations are correct, if done would be slightly under our current cap.

Kimmo can fetch a first... kubina got a 2nd and a 4th....
Hartnell plus a 2nd to a playoff team who needs physical play with a scoring touch would fetch a 1st
WPG Needs a center, they receive draft picks to help with their rebuild, and we've been linked to Buff for awhile now
Vinny a salary dump? He was the most sought after FA, unfortunately the Flyers are to slow to use him properly... your whole team can't be slow.
We arent getting Vanek? I'll take your word.. you seem to know the future perfectly, as if you predicted it yourself, just like the fact you "doubt" buff has the Flyers on HIS list
Money talks, playing with Giroux, I think he'd consider it and thrive in Philadelphia

Edit: These trades/fa pickups make the Flyers a very well rounded team that is young and can compete for the foreseeable future. (un-like now)
Still would have possibly Morin, Hagg, & Ghost developing properly for the future
& our core is still intact.
Obviously this is hypothetical (like everyones post in this thread) but I find it hard to argue the fact that this roster would be a cup contending team, and like I said, a little bit cheaper also... with the cap raise, anything is possible to make it even better.


Last edited by Grare: 01-27-2014 at 01:02 AM.
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