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24-14-4 Since Berube took over

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Old
01-13-2014, 11:08 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
The things that concern me about Berube is that his lineup decisions are nonsensical and horrible most of the time and he's talked about preaching accountability yet he doesn't actually have any.
Please give examples. I am not sure what he can do with this lineup. If you bench somebody or take someone out of the lineup, you have to have a replacement for him. The phantoms are lacking in talent so there is nobody down there ready to make an impact. You can sit a defensemen for either Gus or Gill but is that really an improvement? What would you have him do?

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01-13-2014, 11:15 AM
  #52
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I'm not a big believer in line juggling. Why the hell is that the go-to move again? What does it do, besides discourage familiarity with your line mates and hinder players' comfort on the ice?

And as far as I'm concerned, accountability doesn't mean punishing a player visibly after every bad game. This board can be very presumptuous. Do we really know about the conversations that are had between coaches and players? Do we really know who is told to do what as far as players are concerned?

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01-13-2014, 11:44 AM
  #53
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Please give examples. I am not sure what he can do with this lineup. If you bench somebody or take someone out of the lineup, you have to have a replacement for him. The phantoms are lacking in talent so there is nobody down there ready to make an impact. You can sit a defensemen for either Gus or Gill but is that really an improvement? What would you have him do?
Examples of each?

Putting our most disappointing and probably least reliable two-way forward with our best defensive forward on the third line isn't smart for one. Sticking Couturier and Lecavalier together makes zero sense. Raffl and Downie both make a lot more sense there. Even VandeVelde makes more sense there.

This team is also constantly taking too many penalties. This trend stretches back to the franchises founding pretty much, but it's still a problem today. The Flyers are pretty much always a league leader in minor penalties it seems and I know we're up there this season as well. He seems to have done nothing to make that better.

Andrej Meszaros can't buy a ticket out of the lineup. Has six more games played then Gustafsson and 22 more games played then Gill. Meszaros is by far our worst D in the defensive zone and the most he's done this season is an occasional nice play deep in the offensive zone.

If you want specific incidents, I remember both Rinaldo and Rosehill doing extremely egregious things to log some really bad minor penalties and being back in the lineup as soon as possible. The two incidents I'm referring to are Rinaldo jumping a player all the way down to the ice and punching him while he was on the ice and Rosehill literally turning from the penalty box and going after someone after he was already penalized.

He also line juggles as badly as anyone.

Maybe he isn't as bad with accountability as me and others say, but he most definitely could do a better job of it.

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01-13-2014, 12:25 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Examples of each?

Putting our most disappointing and probably least reliable two-way forward with our best defensive forward on the third line isn't smart for one. Sticking Couturier and Lecavalier together makes zero sense. Raffl and Downie both make a lot more sense there. Even VandeVelde makes more sense there.

This team is also constantly taking too many penalties. This trend stretches back to the franchises founding pretty much, but it's still a problem today. The Flyers are pretty much always a league leader in minor penalties it seems and I know we're up there this season as well. He seems to have done nothing to make that better.

Andrej Meszaros can't buy a ticket out of the lineup. Has six more games played then Gustafsson and 22 more games played then Gill. Meszaros is by far our worst D in the defensive zone and the most he's done this season is an occasional nice play deep in the offensive zone.

If you want specific incidents, I remember both Rinaldo and Rosehill doing extremely egregious things to log some really bad minor penalties and being back in the lineup as soon as possible. The two incidents I'm referring to are Rinaldo jumping a player all the way down to the ice and punching him while he was on the ice and Rosehill literally turning from the penalty box and going after someone after he was already penalized.

He also line juggles as badly as anyone.

Maybe he isn't as bad with accountability as me and others say, but he most definitely could do a better job of it.
Lecavalier is on the 3rd line because he has nowhere else to go. The 2nd line with Schenn at center was hot, so you couldn't put him back at center there. He secondary position is right wing. You are not going to put him over Voracek and the 2nd line with Simmonds was again clicking. So you can try him at left wing, which Berube has been doing on the top line instead of Raffl for a couple of shifts the last couple of games, or you put him on the 3rd line. Lecavalier hasn't been effective at right wing let alone left so he is a square peg right now. This stems from the managements obsession with acquiring centers and trying to turn centers into wings.

Penalties are a flyers tradition. I am all for benching players but you need replacements. There are no top 6 prospects in the AHL. Dropping top players to the 4th line is great in theory but that comes with a whole host of problems. See montreal with Briere calling for a trade and creating a distraction. You only put guys like Hartnell and Lecavalier on the 4th line only if you want to trade them and trade them for pennies on the dollar at that. Nobody's giving you premium assets for a benched player except Paul Holmgren.

Meszaros was benched until Gus got hurt or when Gus was also playing like garbage in the beginning of the year. Gus is finally healthy this weekend but Mezz actually played well against Montreal. Gus, Gill, and Mezz are varies degrees of the same trash IMO.

Rinaldo and Rosehill suck, no debate, but again this goes to the trash on the phantoms and an organizational philosophy of employing goons. Complaining that the flyers employ goons is a waste of time. They will always have goons. It's the flyers way. It would be like complaining about too many Europeans on Detroit.

I don't know what people want from a coach. This is a team desperately needing talent on the roster and in the system.

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01-13-2014, 01:20 PM
  #55
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Jets are in the situation the Flyers were in but the Flyers can revert to if they don't get back in gear.

The problem with the Jets and Flyers is that they are talented enough to be competitive, they are not talented enough to contend. They still need to make changes..

In the case of the Jets..the change in coach should make them more competitive..just as Berube was able to do with the Flyers. Key is sustaining that compete level in the second half with the Olympic layoff. If Mason and Emery underwhelm..Flyers may miss the playoffs. Would be ironic if the both of them regress in the second half and Bob picks it up like he has....

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01-13-2014, 01:36 PM
  #56
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Jets are in the situation the Flyers were in but the Flyers can revert to if they don't get back in gear.

The problem with the Jets and Flyers is that they are talented enough to be competitive, they are not talented enough to contend. They still need to make changes..

In the case of the Jets..the change in coach should make them more competitive..just as Berube was able to do with the Flyers. Key is sustaining that compete level in the second half with the Olympic layoff. If Mason and Emery underwhelm..Flyers may miss the playoffs. Would be ironic if the both of them regress in the second half and Bob picks it up like he has....
Spot on.

As far as the rest of the season goes, it is just up in the air and mostly up to Mason (and Emery to a much lesser extent) at this point. Outside of some seemingly strong performances on the road trip, Mason has been weak for a while now and his save percentage over the season has taken a nose-dive. We know what to expect from our forwards and our D, but our goaltending is just a wait and see the rest of the season thing right now.

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01-13-2014, 05:24 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post

Rinaldo and Rosehill suck, no debate, but again this goes to the trash on the phantoms and an organizational philosophy of employing goons. Complaining that the flyers employ goons is a waste of time. They will always have goons. It's the flyers way. It would be like complaining about too many Europeans on Detroit.
I don't think it's really a matter of the Phantoms having terrible players anymore. Tye McGinn should be here, and Jason Akeson deserved a fair shot last year long before the last game of the season. They just don't use them. Eric Wellwood should not have been sent down last year. We've also been hearing about Brandon Manning being on the cusp for quite a while. Most especially McGinn, who should have been getting recalled instead of Kris Newbury.

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01-13-2014, 05:28 PM
  #58
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I don't think it's really a matter of the Phantoms having terrible players anymore. Tye McGinn should be here, and Jason Akeson deserved a fair shot last year long before the last game of the season. They just don't use them. Eric Wellwood should not have been sent down last year. We've also been hearing about Brandon Manning being on the cusp for quite a while. Most especially McGinn, who should have been getting recalled instead of Kris Newbury.
Nope, it's vitally important that they let a gimped Meszaros try to learn how to play hockey again, or throw Gill into a few games instead of doing stuff that could help develop young dmen.

Flyers hockey.

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01-14-2014, 03:50 AM
  #59
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Can't blame the last two on Berube. We deserved more from both, poor netminding at our end and good netminding at the other is the reason we lost. Before that we were on a hell of a run.

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01-14-2014, 05:17 AM
  #60
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I don't think it's really a matter of the Phantoms having terrible players anymore. Tye McGinn should be here, and Jason Akeson deserved a fair shot last year long before the last game of the season. They just don't use them. Eric Wellwood should not have been sent down last year. We've also been hearing about Brandon Manning being on the cusp for quite a while. Most especially McGinn, who should have been getting recalled instead of Kris Newbury.
It is a shame about Wellwood because he definitely was a NHL player. Laviolette didn't seem to like specific young players or have a willingness to live thru some mistakes. Akeson and McGinn suffer because they are top 6 AHL/NHL tweeners, not quiet good enough offensively for a top 6 role and not fast and defensively savvy for a bottom six role. Gus is suppose to be the 6th defensemen. The reason manning is in the AHL is because the only spot available to him was either beating out Gus or as a 7th defenseman, which is terrible for a young guy. Since they couldn't dump Mezz, all the AHL defensemen were stuck in the minors all year regardless if they are any good or not. I actual prefer that since Murray is there and can hopefully make some of these guys full time NHLers in the future. I think the phantoms have allowed the least goals by a wide margin.

That was just my opinion of those AHL players but this was a discussion about Rinaldo and Rosehill. Like it or not, the Flyers brand stills sells violence and a tough image and there is a decent portion of its fan base that still buys it. Guys like Rinaldo and Rosehill will always be on the team. That's why Goulbourne was a pick. The flyers are one of if not the most popular and financially successful America team with a large fan base across the US and Canada. It is not unheard of for flyers fans to make up at least 1/3 or more of the fans in a visiting stadium. As much as I would like a McGinn or Wellwood to supplant a Rinaldo and Rosehill, it goes against a very successful business model of the team. Other teams popularity rises and falls with success, like Pittsburgh and Chicago, but the flyers have been consistently popular since the 70's even in bad times partly because they have this image and constant identity. Hockey is still a business. At least they are evolving to getting more out of their tough guys like making Rinaldo into a penalty killer and from what I understand, Goulbourne is an even more useful player who doesn't take bad penalties and can defend on top of being a good fighter. But like it or not, the flyers will always have a goon or two on its roster.

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01-14-2014, 12:37 PM
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Berube is a rock for Flyers

Interesting article....

Quote:
The Flyers have slowly but surely taken on some of the same personality traits as their coach, Craig Berube. In 43 games on the bench - nearly 20 percent of the average NHL coach's shelf life - we have rarely seen Berube rattled.

It takes a lot to get him fired up. He is intense, but not over the top. There is a line and he rarely crosses it.

"Chief is an easy-going guy," assistant coach Ian Laperriere said last week. "But he'll tell you the truth. There's no 'BS.' He tells you exactly how he feels, what he thinks."

His players are noticing his calm demeanor. Even though the Flyers' drop in play over the last three to four games seemed inevitable - judging by anything from their advanced stats and 5-on-5 shot ratios to their nightly energy level - you almost got the sense that Berube let his players know what they accomplished over the last 30 days (a 10-2-1 record) was much more important in the long run than a weekend sweep.

"There's no tension in the room, no tension on the bench," said Jay Rosehill, who has played for quite a few coaches. "It's just honesty. There's no games with him. He's not trying to manipulate anyone. Everyone knows where they stand with him. He's fair and calls it like it is. The team always knows what is going on."


Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...HQCXltKc8y3.99

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01-14-2014, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Can't blame the last two on Berube. We deserved more from both, poor netminding at our end and good netminding at the other is the reason we lost. Before that we were on a hell of a run.
The Flyers were not ready to go on Sunday night and it cost them. when they finally realized there was a game going on they were down 3-0. So yes we can put Sundays loss on Berube for not having them ready to go. If Lavy had to take the heat for lackluster starts in games Berube can.
Saturdays game wasnt on him I agree. poor defense, poor goaltending and lack of finish was the difference. TB has had the Flyers number of late for whatever reason.

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01-14-2014, 12:52 PM
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The Flyers were not ready to go on Sunday night and it cost them. when they finally realized there was a game going on they were down 3-0. So yes we can put Sundays loss on Berube for not having them ready to go. If Lavy had to take the heat for lackluster starts in games Berube can.
Saturdays game wasnt on him I agree. poor defense, poor goaltending and lack of finish was the difference. TB has had the Flyers number of late for whatever reason.

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01-14-2014, 12:53 PM
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so you think they started out fine?
lirl


EDIT: If Lavy was still the coach we would have more ppl screaming how he didnt have this club ready to go again. But hey since its Berube, the former Flyer player. nope he gets a free pass.

I get it.

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01-14-2014, 02:22 PM
  #65
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The Flyers haven't won at MSG in over 3 years now. Kinda difficult to pin it on any one player or the coach. It's a mental thing the team will have to over come. Short of Berube initiating semi-lobotomies, there isn't much he can do here.

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01-14-2014, 03:00 PM
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EDIT: If Lavy was still the coach we would have more ppl screaming how he didnt have this club ready to go again. But hey since its Berube, the former Flyer player. nope he gets a free pass.

I get it.
No, you don't. It's got NOTHING to do with him being a former player. It has to do with the fact that Berube has been doing a great job and the team is responding.

The Flyers have not played well in MSG for a long time, for whatever reason. This is Berube's first season as coach. If they are flat out of the gate for the NEXT game at MSG, then it's on him. He gets a pass for now because the team's playing very well for him. They outplayed Tampa for most of the game but could not score, Mason let in a rare bad goal and they made a couple really nice plays on breakdowns. I didn't see the first period vs. NYR, but from the highlights it didn't really look like the goals on Emery were weak.

After a really strong road trip they came home and won, then lost a couple. That's OK. If, like Lavy, Berube loses repeatedly to the Devils and Rangers, then he'll be gone soon too...

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01-14-2014, 03:09 PM
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so you think they started out fine?
lirl


EDIT: If Lavy was still the coach we would have more ppl screaming how he didnt have this club ready to go again. But hey since its Berube, the former Flyer player. nope he gets a free pass.

I get it.

I certainly wasn't insinuating that they didn't start poorly. But to take something like that and just decide it was on the coach, especially with the job he's done, is the real laughable part of this. I can defer from this that you've never played on a hockey team, or atleast an organized one.

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01-24-2014, 03:08 PM
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Since the 'Holmgren doesn't deserve to be fired" thread was bumped (he does), want to make sure we cover all the bases here.

2-4-2 since this thread was started (after the Montreal game), one of which was a struggle against Buffalo, they've lost 4 of 5 and Berube has 22 regulation wins in 49 games, and 5 regulation wins (none against a team currently in the playoffs) since the Vancouver game. And some of those points are almost solely on Andrej Meszaros turning his play around. And the team is routinely unprepared to begin games.

Just in case people still think that the coaching change was the impetus to anything that wasn't some percentages leveling out.

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01-24-2014, 06:39 PM
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Ever since Mason stopped playing lights out the Flyers have struggled.
The breakout is a joke. Instead of heading out of the zone there is this constant excessive passing that results in tons of turnovers.
We are back to firing the puck up the boards when in trouble which gets constantly intercepted.
Our PP is a passing contest. Why shoot when you can pass?
Penalties are like a turnstile.
Lineup and goalie choices are a joke.
The coach has no emotion during the game, this transfers to the players

But other than that Berube is doing a great job.

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01-27-2014, 01:46 AM
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Ever since Mason stopped playing lights out the Flyers have struggled.
The breakout is a joke. Instead of heading out of the zone there is this constant excessive passing that results in tons of turnovers.
We are back to firing the puck up the boards when in trouble which gets constantly intercepted.
Our PP is a passing contest. Why shoot when you can pass?
Penalties are like a turnstile.
Lineup and goalie choices are a joke.
The coach has no emotion during the game, this transfers to the players

But other than that Berube is doing a great job.

Like I said at the time when the team struggled its not Lavi, its Holmgren.
Lavi was a scapegoat for Holmgren's failings as GM.
The defense is putrid and the offense often underacheives.
Every part of this team is overvalued and can be replaced, its a very average team.
The Flyers only hope is that Mason stones the opposition and they steal some wins.
I am not sure Chief can win consistantly with the players Holmgren has provided.

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01-27-2014, 05:07 AM
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The flyers are 3-10 against teams with 60 pts or more. If you take out wildcard teams and divisional opponents, they are 0-7 against the the playoffs teams (top 3) in other divisions being outscored 31-12. They have 14 games remaining against those teams.

The fact is the flyers "turn around" coincided with the weak part of the schedule with most of their tough games backloaded in the last 3rd of the season. Even still they needed 9 third period comeback against those weaker teams just to stay afloat. With Mason crashing back to earth, the last 29 games could be the most epic meltdown in franchise history.

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01-27-2014, 05:51 AM
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The flyers are 3-10 against teams with 60 pts or more. If you take out wildcard teams and divisional opponents, they are 0-7 against the the playoffs teams (top 3) in other divisions being outscored 31-12. They have 14 games remaining against those teams.

The fact is the flyers "turn around" coincided with the weak part of the schedule with most of their tough games backloaded in the last 3rd of the season. Even still they needed 9 third period comeback against those weaker teams just to stay afloat. With Mason crashing back to earth, the last 29 games could be the most epic meltdown in franchise history.
The whole upcoming schedule is pretty scary.


+ Detroit and Anaheim in this month.


If we go 15-11-3 then there's 54,6% chance we make the playoffs. Make it 13-13-3 and the chances are only 1,8%.
Philadelphia Flyers Playoff Chances

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01-27-2014, 07:00 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
The flyers are 3-10 against teams with 60 pts or more. If you take out wildcard teams and divisional opponents, they are 0-7 against the the playoffs teams (top 3) in other divisions being outscored 31-12. They have 14 games remaining against those teams.

The fact is the flyers "turn around" coincided with the weak part of the schedule with most of their tough games backloaded in the last 3rd of the season. Even still they needed 9 third period comeback against those weaker teams just to stay afloat. With Mason crashing back to earth, the last 29 games could be the most epic meltdown in franchise history.
Meltzer in his blog post said the turnaround wasn't against weaker teams..not sure what he was talking about. He also berated a lot of the critics for suggesting a rebuild or knowing more than the coach, GM etc. While he made some good points ...overall I thought it was one of his more contradictory pieces...

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01-27-2014, 08:24 AM
  #74
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Meltzer in his blog post said the turnaround wasn't against weaker teams..not sure what he was talking about. He also berated a lot of the critics for suggesting a rebuild or knowing more than the coach, GM etc. While he made some good points ...overall I thought it was one of his more contradictory pieces...
I suppose we'll see how accurate he was after this upcoming stretch...

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01-27-2014, 08:30 AM
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Meltzer in his blog post said the turnaround wasn't against weaker teams..not sure what he was talking about. He also berated a lot of the critics for suggesting a rebuild or knowing more than the coach, GM etc. While he made some good points ...overall I thought it was one of his more contradictory pieces...
I like meltzer's work and agree with the overriding point of the article but he was way off as far as the flyers beating quality opponents. That 6-0-1 streak he cites as an example of the flyers beating quality teams was against Edmonton, Ottawa, Pittsburgh, SO loss to Winnipeg, Ottawa, buffalo, and the Islanders. So that's just 1 playoff team with 3 last place teams in the mix. Not a great example of quality opponents.

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