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Trade Weber?

View Poll Results: Should Poile think of trading Weber to add to offense?
Yes 0 0%
No 0 0%
Wait for him to ask 0 0%
Only for an extreme overpayment(Top three player,Top six prospect,top 4D, and a 1st) 0 0%
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Old
01-27-2014, 01:32 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher View Post
I've made this argument with many people before. A star player has tremendous leverage, NTC or not. A perfect example would be Jeff Carter going to Columbus. I think most teams would avoid such a mess by checking with the player before completing the trade, and Carter did quickly did his ticket out of Columbus afterwards. If Weber were to be traded, I think the Flyers would be the best trading partner. Obviously Weber wouldn't mind going there, and Philly has the kind of players that Trotz and Poile like, such as Schenn, Courtier, Simmonds, etc.
Don't confuse anything Jeff Carter did up here with something that most NHL players - or, frankly, any other NHL players ever in the history of the game - would ever do. His on-ice poutfest was quite literally unprecedented.

If you want a decent example, try Pronger and Edmonton. Sure, he may go there, but he may not stay. But at that point it's no longer Nashville's problem.

That said, I still think this discussion is a tad premature. A quick reminder for some folks: Suter left because of Suter, not because of Nashville.

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01-27-2014, 01:38 PM
  #52
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i get the argument that has been named about trotz's playing style being a reason that players don't want to co play here, but i have to believe that if Weber wanted to win here as much as possible and as much as people say he does then I have absolutely no clue why he can't get in some players ears and get them to sign here. All he has to say is his name, Rinne, Forsberg, Jones, good things in the future and sell that the player he is talking to is the one missing piece.

I don't get why he and rinne can't persuade people. we lack like two legitimate top 6ers to make us legit again and we can't find them year after year. i sometimes question Weber's compete level.

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01-27-2014, 01:47 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by thecloser View Post
i get the argument that has been named about trotz's playing style being a reason that players don't want to co play here, but i have to believe that if Weber wanted to win here as much as possible and as much as people say he does then I have absolutely no clue why he can't get in some players ears and get them to sign here. All he has to say is his name, Rinne, Forsberg, Jones, good things in the future and sell that the player he is talking to is the one missing piece.

I don't get why he and rinne can't persuade people. we lack like two legitimate top 6ers to make us legit again and we can't find them year after year. i sometimes question Weber's compete level.
There's an issue with the perception of life in Nashville--it's been easier to sell it to older, family-oriented players, but it lacks the sort of lifestyle that the bigger cities offer.

However, in this era, the main issue is that quality players very rarely become available in free agency. David Clarkson was the prize of the UFA market...so your choice becomes "Overpay for average talent."

There's a lot of blame to be laid for the mediocrity of the forwards on the roster, but I'm sorry--I don't think Weber shares in it.

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01-27-2014, 02:21 PM
  #54
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This question - again, now, really? Pointless exercise. Either it happens or it doesn't and both teams will pull the trigger only if they feel they are getting the most favorable outcome. All the hypothetical scenarios - I guess they are fun like fantasy hockey or something? Come on everybody. Did anyone outside the organization see the Klein trade coming (honestly)? In a player swap scenario - I would have to say that Poile has managed to get the better end of a lot of the deals.

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01-27-2014, 03:12 PM
  #55
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I don't get all the doom and gloom. Yeah, we need an injection of talent in the offense. But you build from the net out, and right now the back end is extremely talented. I seriously believe that this team is 1-2 seasons away from having the best defense in the league. Weber will still be in his prime. Jones, Josi, Ellis, Del Zotto ... that's a TON of young talent to develop. Rinne in goal behind them, with Mazanec and Hellberg developing in the minors. The back end looks good.

What the NEED is to focus on drafting forwards over the next couple of years. Pick up 1-2 genuine top-line forwards in the draft and this whole team changes. I think Forsberg will develop into that type of player. Add another guy to play with him on the top line, preferably a center, and suddenly this start to look like a dangerous team again as the defense gels.

We don't need a forward corps as deep and talented as, say, Pittsburgh. If the defense and goaltending come together like I think they will over the next couple of years there's no need for a Crosby or Stamkos sort of talent. But a couple of guys that will reliably score in the 70-80 point range would get this team turned around in a hurry.

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Old
01-27-2014, 03:35 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
There's an issue with the perception of life in Nashville--it's been easier to sell it to older, family-oriented players, but it lacks the sort of lifestyle that the bigger cities offer.

However, in this era, the main issue is that quality players very rarely become available in free agency. David Clarkson was the prize of the UFA market...so your choice becomes "Overpay for average talent."

There's a lot of blame to be laid for the mediocrity of the forwards on the roster, but I'm sorry--I don't think Weber shares in it.
That's absolutely right. People keep coming with with reasons why players don't want to play here (small market, Trotz system, etc) but we are speculating about nothing! The players aren't available. Parise was the only legitimate top line UFA talent in his prime is the last 4 YEARS.

Poile has got to do a better job of getting offensive talent via draft or trade. That's why he's had almost no post season success in his 30+ years as a GM.

As for Weber, no one here knows he's what's in his head. It's up to Poile to get the pulse of Weber, but he has totally lacked that ability in the past with his star players.

What we do know is that the VAST majority of people in the world want to play for a winner. Weber stated he wanted more talent around him before singing a long term deal. We have gotten way worse since he said that-- approaching 2 years of lottery picks. Logic would suggest he's only going to patient for so long...

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01-27-2014, 03:43 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by MrJoshua View Post
I don't get all the doom and gloom. Yeah, we need an injection of talent in the offense. But you build from the net out, and right now the back end is extremely talented. I seriously believe that this team is 1-2 seasons away from having the best defense in the league. Weber will still be in his prime. Jones, Josi, Ellis, Del Zotto ... that's a TON of young talent to develop. Rinne in goal behind them, with Mazanec and Hellberg developing in the minors. The back end looks good.

What the NEED is to focus on drafting forwards over the next couple of years. Pick up 1-2 genuine top-line forwards in the draft and this whole team changes. I think Forsberg will develop into that type of player. Add another guy to play with him on the top line, preferably a center, and suddenly this start to look like a dangerous team again as the defense gels.

We don't need a forward corps as deep and talented as, say, Pittsburgh. If the defense and goaltending come together like I think they will over the next couple of years there's no need for a Crosby or Stamkos sort of talent. But a couple of guys that will reliably score in the 70-80 point range would get this team turned around in a hurry.
You have a valid point about the blueliners and the key word interjected is (develop). They are going to need a couple years to be dominate. The tricky thing is if we focus on drafting forwards they need that same development period. If you consider that this years draft is average to below average as is being projected we could have 4 top ten picks and only get one maybe two player they will have an impact in the next 4 years.

I highly doubt Weber is moved unless he demands it. The roster is still probably one of the bottom three in the league offensively. And the return on trading any and all of the offense is not going to return the top line players that are needed. Now Scissions is going to get a look in the next number of games. He has been the bright spot for the Ad's. Watson failed to impressed last year and has not been steller this season so one must question if he will ever live up to the top 6 type player he had hoped for. That does not mean he has no potential contribute at this level, but he was totally lost last year when he was brought up and hes only on pace to have a 40 point year with Milwaukee. He has a couple years left to develop before his timeclock expires but the clock is ticking. The issues of predicting talent for a draft is beyond what us armchair GM's are capiable of doing. SHoot I think luck has a hand in it as well..

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01-27-2014, 05:02 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJoshua View Post

What the NEED is to focus on drafting forwards over the next couple of years. Pick up 1-2 genuine top-line forwards in the draft and this whole team changes.

But a couple of guys that will reliably score in the 70-80 point range would get this team turned around in a hurry.
The problem is, it's easier said that done.

We've been drafting for 15 years and we're yet to draft a homegrown player to come close to even 70 points (Leggy in 05/06 had 63, the only time a homegrown player even scored 60+).

I don't see us being able to pick 2 of them in the draft in the next 2 years - especially with picks in the 7-12 range where we're likely to finish out. Couple that with the requirement that they become 70-80 pt scorers while we still have a relatively cheap defense corps (i.e. Josi on his great contract, Jones on his ELC or cheap, Weber in his prime).

Unless Forsberg is the uber prospect we all hope he is - the odds of an 80point player drafted by the Preds before, say, 2018, are slim and none.

What we need to do is go out and buy a scorer. Yes, if we have to pay stupid prices for them in July, than that's what we need to do. Else we're going to have the same scrappy but mediocre team for the next half decade.

But I don't have much confidence in that. We rarely spend money, and when we do, the players we sign don't score anyway.

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01-27-2014, 05:15 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
The problem is, it's easier said that done.

We've been drafting for 15 years and we're yet to draft a homegrown player to come close to even 70 points (Leggy in 05/06 had 63, the only time a homegrown player even scored 60+).

I don't see us being able to pick 2 of them in the draft in the next 2 years - especially with picks in the 7-12 range where we're likely to finish out. Couple that with the requirement that they become 70-80 pt scorers while we still have a relatively cheap defense corps (i.e. Josi on his great contract, Jones on his ELC or cheap, Weber in his prime).

Unless Forsberg is the uber prospect we all hope he is - the odds of an 80point player drafted by the Preds before, say, 2018, are slim and none.

What we need to do is go out and buy a scorer. Yes, if we have to pay stupid prices for them in July, than that's what we need to do. Else we're going to have the same scrappy but mediocre team for the next half decade.

But I don't have much confidence in that. We rarely spend money, and when we do, the players we sign don't score anyway.
Again, those players just don't hit the market. Marleau and Thornton were UFA's to be and are already off the market. Just like Perry and Getzlaf last year. Vanek and Moulson MAY hit the market this summer, but Vanek is basically already being pencilled into Minnesota's lineup, which will leave Moulson on the top of everyone's list, and when Nashville is one of 10 teams to offer the same contract, they lose on a lack of fringe benefits.

If the team wants to add a scorer, it's going to have to be through trade. Not a Mike Fisher type trade, but look at various moves of young high end players in recent years: bobby ryan, david perron, jeff carter, mike richards, tyler seguin...all the way back to phil kessel(the only of these deals that Poile was confirmed to have made a serious attempt at).

These players become available, but you have to be willing to pay the price, even if it's more than just draft picks.

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01-27-2014, 07:48 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
These players become available, but you have to be willing to pay the price, even if it's more than just draft picks.
I'd be ok with that. I'm on the shop-Weber bandwagon.

He's the only piece we have that would likely be able to return the high end offensive guy and a defenseman which would minimize the impact of losing him in the first place.

But since no one wants to give up anything - we either draft a scorer (not likely to make an impact in the next 3-4 years, if we even hit on the draft pick), or sign one (I know there's no Crosby's available, but this team would be pretty good with Grabovski centering Moulson).

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01-27-2014, 09:12 PM
  #61
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oilers fan coming in peace just saw this thread and thought i would throw out a proposal

nash
eberle
2014 first(guaranteed top 3 basically, 4 ov team as of now, florida, is 9 points up on the oilers)
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cond 2015 first(if oilers make playoffs 2nd if not)

edm
weber

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01-27-2014, 09:24 PM
  #62
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done with the weber proposals.

i think we could get moulson but i know we'd have to offer a kings ransom in terms of money but to get the scorer i would. we're gonna have money this off season so is 7 mill too much for moulson who is in his prime and could literally score 40 his first season here? Moulson is someone if i were Poile i would offer 7-7.5, too much to some of you i'm sure but gotta do what we gotta do.

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01-27-2014, 09:38 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by thecloser View Post
done with the weber proposals.

i think we could get moulson but i know we'd have to offer a kings ransom in terms of money but to get the scorer i would. we're gonna have money this off season so is 7 mill too much for moulson who is in his prime and could literally score 40 his first season here? Moulson is someone if i were Poile i would offer 7-7.5, too much to some of you i'm sure but gotta do what we gotta do.
Yes, $7 million a year is way too much for Moulson. And no, he will not score 40.

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01-27-2014, 10:17 PM
  #64
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Yes, $7 million a year is way too much for Moulson. And no, he will not score 40.
then no offense, but you like other fans and myself included won't see a true goal scorer come here unless it's through the draft and by the time they're developed it's gonna be like 5 years down the road.

i may eat my words somewhere down the line but if the past has anything to say about it.....

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01-27-2014, 11:10 PM
  #65
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then no offense, but you like other fans and myself included won't see a true goal scorer come here unless it's through the draft and by the time they're developed it's gonna be like 5 years down the road.

i may eat my words somewhere down the line but if the past has anything to say about it.....
Scoring's a problem. Attracting scorers is a problem. The solution isn't to double the salary of a non-dynamic, one-dimensional winger who will put up somewhere between 30 and 35 goals. Hell, somewhere around $5-5.5 million is still possibly an overpayment, but if that's what it takes, it would be something to consider. $7 million is just crazy talk though.

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01-28-2014, 01:02 AM
  #66
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i would bet matt moulson will get 6-6.5 this off-season.

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02-06-2014, 10:49 AM
  #67
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Just some thinking outloud, if Nashville were to get an offer for Weber for a straight up trade for 1 player, what could we expect to get offered? Would we accept?

TBL - Stamkos
Pitts - Crosby, Malkin
Ana - Getzlaf, Perry
Chi - Kane, Sharp, Toews
Col - Duchene
Edm - Hall, RNH
SJS - Pavelski, Couture
Bos - Krejci
NYI - Tavares, Okposo
Phi - Giroux
Tor - Kessel
Caps - Ovechkin, Backstrom

These are the only players that I would consider of equal or better. Did I miss anyone?

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02-06-2014, 11:28 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by weeze View Post
Just some thinking outloud, if Nashville were to get an offer for Weber for a straight up trade for 1 player, what could we expect to get offered? Would we accept?

TBL - Stamkos
Pitts - Crosby, Malkin
Ana - Getzlaf, Perry
Chi - Kane, Sharp, Toews
Col - Duchene
Edm - Hall, RNH
SJS - Pavelski, Couture
Bos - Krejci
NYI - Tavares, Okposo
Phi - Giroux
Tor - Kessel
Caps - Ovechkin, Backstrom

These are the only players that I would consider of equal or better. Did I miss anyone?
I may be confused, but you think that Pavelski, Couture, Krejci, Okposo, etc... have equal or better value than Weber?

Only four names I consider in a 1 to 1 swap are Stamkos, Malkin, Crosby, Ovechkin.

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02-06-2014, 11:34 AM
  #69
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I agree with the above

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02-06-2014, 11:47 AM
  #70
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Yeah, I'd take out Sharp, Duchene, Hall, RNH, Pavelski, Krejci, Okposo (??), Giroux and Backstrom personally.

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02-06-2014, 11:51 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weeze View Post
Just some thinking outloud, if Nashville were to get an offer for Weber for a straight up trade for 1 player, what could we expect to get offered? Would we accept?

TBL - Stamkos
Pitts - Crosby, Malkin
Ana - Getzlaf, Perry
Chi - Kane, Sharp, Toews
Col - Duchene
Edm - Hall, RNH
SJS - Pavelski, Couture
Bos - Krejci
NYI - Tavares, Okposo
Phi - Giroux
Tor - Kessel
Caps - Ovechkin, Backstrom

These are the only players that I would consider of equal or better. Did I miss anyone?
Okposo for Weber straight up? Really?


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02-06-2014, 11:56 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weeze View Post
Just some thinking outloud, if Nashville were to get an offer for Weber for a straight up trade for 1 player, what could we expect to get offered? Would we accept?

TBL - Stamkos
Pitts - Crosby, Malkin
Ana - Getzlaf, Perry
Chi - Kane, Sharp, Toews
Col - Duchene
Edm - Hall, RNH
SJS - Pavelski, Couture
Bos - Krejci
NYI - Tavares, Okposo
Phi - Giroux
Tor - Kessel
Caps - Ovechkin, Backstrom

These are the only players that I would consider of equal or better. Did I miss anyone?
Only Players I would do 1-1 is Stamkos,Crosby,Malkin,Getzlaf,Tavares,Ovechkin.

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02-06-2014, 12:52 PM
  #73
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I've used this argument ad nauseam in various threads on the trade forum.

Since we traded Klein the average age for a Nashville defender is 23.5. That is extremely young for defense in the NHL. If we trade Weber it drops by almost a full year. We simply do not have a veteran presence on the blueline.

Now, one can counter by saying, "Why not get a top line forward, a top prospect, a veteran blueliner and a pick?" Fair point. I would say that having Weber as that veteran presence is of such high value that no teams should want to put together a package that actually meets that value. Having one of the best defensemen in the game guiding young guys like Josi, Jones and MDZ is an awesome luxury. His leadership will also help guide young forwards.

So what we have is a player whose skill alone creates incredibly high value. Then you take into account the youth we have on the blueline, his leadership skills and, lest we forget, the enormous amount of money already paid towards his contract. All of those things put together makes me feel like trading him is a terrible idea, at the moment anyway. Anything can change down the road, but in the here and now there is absolutely no reason to even entertain the idea unless Shero goes insane and offers us Crosby.

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02-06-2014, 07:06 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
I've used this argument ad nauseam in various threads on the trade forum.

Since we traded Klein the average age for a Nashville defender is 23.5. That is extremely young for defense in the NHL. If we trade Weber it drops by almost a full year. We simply do not have a veteran presence on the blueline.

Now, one can counter by saying, "Why not get a top line forward, a top prospect, a veteran blueliner and a pick?" Fair point. I would say that having Weber as that veteran presence is of such high value that no teams should want to put together a package that actually meets that value. Having one of the best defensemen in the game guiding young guys like Josi, Jones and MDZ is an awesome luxury. His leadership will also help guide young forwards.

So what we have is a player whose skill alone creates incredibly high value. Then you take into account the youth we have on the blueline, his leadership skills and, lest we forget, the enormous amount of money already paid towards his contract. All of those things put together makes me feel like trading him is a terrible idea, at the moment anyway. Anything can change down the road, but in the here and now there is absolutely no reason to even entertain the idea unless Shero goes insane and offers us Crosby.
But-but-but... offer sheet! Delayed signing! Offense! Ryan Suter! RYAN SUTER!!

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02-06-2014, 10:14 PM
  #75
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But-but-but... offer sheet! Delayed signing! Offense! Ryan Suter! RYAN SUTER!!
What on earth does that have to do with his post?

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