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"Scouting is simple" says the Devils David Conte

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Old
01-30-2007, 04:03 PM
  #26
JimEIV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post

Hee's New Jersey's top two round disappointments in the same period:

Dewolf
Mason
Ward
Damphousse
Gron
Ahonen
Clouthier
Laine
suglobov
Demarchi
Pohanka
Pihlman
Kadeykin
Tallackson
Wow-zer! That is a little misleading....

You took the years from 1996 to 2002 with the players named...Mind you, during those those years the Devils finished with 45+ wins or more EVERY YEAR except 1 and that year they had 42 wins-- They had 100+ points every one of those years also ...AND they won A Stanely Cup and finished within 1 game another.

Those 7 years you chose also produced some pretty impressive players as well....

If you told me every 7 years the Devils will produce defensemen the calibre of Colin White - Willie Mitchell - Mike Van Ryn - Mike Commodore - David Hale and Paul Martin and forward in the calibre of - Scott Gomez -Brian Gionta....I'd think I would be pretty happy

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Old
01-30-2007, 04:30 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by brylin18 View Post
The proof is in the pudding. Devils are 2nd in the conference right now, with Zajac and Oduya stepping into the roster and playing major roles for the team. Greene, Corrente, and Bergfors are on the way also. The Devils have played at a consistently high level for over a decade. Conte developing the reputation he has over this time is not coincedence.

You can examine each draft choice, pick by pick, all day long, but the bottom line is this: the Devils are winning hockey games because of players chosen by Conte.
Bingo. Reading this thread was awaiting the obvious answer.

Amazing how a few miss the forest for the trees. Ultimately, you do not judge scouting based on individual hits and misses. You judge it on the on-ice success of your NHL team. For regardless of whether all or some of your picks directly end up bringing you a Cup, if you draft well, you have assets that can be utilized to assemble the right squad.

And Conte would be strung up in Montreal for his draft record? Guess they'd hate him for his contribution toward those three Cups, four Finals appearances and overall record of ongoing accomplishment over the last decade+ in NJ...vs. what has transpired over the same time in Montreal (and most every other NHL city).

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01-30-2007, 04:44 PM
  #28
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I think it's more important to realize the following...

Elias - Gomez - Gionta
Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Pandolfo - Madden - Brylin
Rupp - Dowd- Rasmussen
Janssen

Rafalski - White
Martin - Lukowich
Oduya - Hale
Greene

Brodeur
Clemmensen

The credit that Conte deserves is that when you look at this lineup, there are only 5 players that have ever played for a club other than New Jersey. 18 out of 23 have played their entire NHL career with NJ. 14 of the 23 were drafted by NJ, of the 9 that were not 4 were signed out of free agency by NJ before they ever played for another NHL club and developed in the NJ system. Only 2 players in that lineup were acquired by trades, only 3 were acquired through free agency where they were already established NHL players (4 including Rupp).

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01-30-2007, 04:55 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
And Conte would be strung up in Montreal for his draft record? Guess they'd hate him for his contribution toward those three Cups, four Finals appearances and overall record of ongoing accomplishment over the last decade+ in NJ...vs. what has transpired over the same time in Montreal (and most every other NHL city).
It's not like New Jersey draft picks have played key roles on their cup winners anyways.

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Old
01-30-2007, 04:58 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
there are only 5 players that have ever played for a club other than New Jersey. 18 out of 23 have played their entire NHL career with NJ.
that is an absurd stat. I bet few teams even come close to it.

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Old
01-30-2007, 05:00 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Kind of reminds me of Christian Berglund.
That's funny so say that because that's my exact fear as well, I still think he's going to be a productive Devil but I wouldn't be surprised if he turned into another Berglund.

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Old
01-30-2007, 05:00 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by HankyFourFingers View Post
that is an absurd stat. I bet few teams even come close to it.
Right now on the Canucks, I count 8. Not even close.

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Old
01-31-2007, 05:28 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
I think it's more important to realize the following...


The credit that Conte deserves is that when you look at this lineup, there are only 5 players that have ever played for a club other than New Jersey. 18 out of 23 have played their entire NHL career with NJ. 14 of the 23 were drafted by NJ, of the 9 that were not 4 were signed out of free agency by NJ before they ever played for another NHL club and developed in the NJ system. Only 2 players in that lineup were acquired by trades, only 3 were acquired through free agency where they were already established NHL players (4 including Rupp).
You are all right. It emphazises the quality of the Devils' drafting. I should have consulted you before writing this article.

For those interested, I have to say that David Conte is one of the most interesting person I have met in the world of hockey. Don't count on him to through stereotypes as most people in this world are used to. He is smart and very articulated. I repeat what I have written - the success is not question of chance. Great leaders make great organization.

Simon Richard, Hockeys Future.

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Old
01-31-2007, 06:34 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul99 View Post
You are all right. It emphazises the quality of the Devils' drafting. I should have consulted you before writing this article.

For those interested, I have to say that David Conte is one of the most interesting person I have met in the world of hockey. Don't count on him to through stereotypes as most people in this world are used to. He is smart and very articulated. I repeat what I have written - the success is not question of chance. Great leaders make great organization.

Simon Richard, Hockeys Future.
I envy you for getting a few spare minutes of Conte's time, one of the greater hockey minds in the NHL today.

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Old
01-31-2007, 09:05 AM
  #35
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As much as I hate the organization, they clearly deserve praise. I think, however, their success with the draft is as much a product of who they select as what they do with their selections afterwards. Hockey players are made as much as they are born, and the Devils have been one of the best organizations at recognizing and developing talent from within. Making it through the Devils farm system is like a gold star at the top of a players resume for the rest of his career.

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01-31-2007, 02:12 PM
  #36
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If everyone wants a player who's busted, perhaps I should bring up Adrian Foster. Yes, injuries have been a problem for him - but they had been a problem before he was drafted, and the Devils still took a chance on him.

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01-31-2007, 03:21 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
If everyone wants a player who's busted, perhaps I should bring up Adrian Foster. Yes, injuries have been a problem for him - but they had been a problem before he was drafted, and the Devils still took a chance on him.
When your drafting 28 out of 30 in the First Round and you are coming off back to back Stanely Cup Finals Appearances taking a flyer on an Adrian Foster I think is more than reasonable.

We can look at any team and find a bunch of players from the first two rounds that have never made it to the NHL...But when you look at the Devils roster, You see the vast majority of their players are drafted by them...

That by itself is no big deal...But Since 1992-93 the Devils have only had 2 seasons of 40 Wins or less...Just 2 seasons in 13 years...And 1 was Lockout shortened season, the other was a 37 win campaign.

When you think about it; Drafting well is really meaningless UNLESS it translates to wins. And I would venture to guess that No team comes anywhere near the Devils as far as Wins with Home grown talent in the last 13 years.

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Old
01-31-2007, 04:40 PM
  #38
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JimEIV -- I really disagree that taking a chance on an injury ridden guy who wasn't even ranked anywhere near the 1st round is stupid no matter where you're drafting or what your past is.

The Foster pick was stupid. Stupidly stupid. I said it at the time of the draft, I said it for the next few years, and I'm saying it now. It was a retarded pick no matter how you put it.

That is one of Conte's worst ever picks. Just horrendously stupid.

You just don't use your first round pick on someone like that.

There's not a doubt in my mind that he would've been available at their 2nd round pick. No one had hardly even heard of him!

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Old
01-31-2007, 05:44 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
The Foster pick was stupid. Stupidly stupid. I said it at the time of the draft, I said it for the next few years, and I'm saying it now. It was a retarded pick no matter how you put it.

That is one of Conte's worst ever picks. Just horrendously stupid.

You just don't use your first round pick on someone like that.

There's not a doubt in my mind that he would've been available at their 2nd round pick. No one had hardly even heard of him!
I didn't like that pick at the time either. I understand the high-risk, high-reward, but that was just way off the board.

Three selections that were way off the board in the last few years that stand out in my mind are Adrian Foster, Jesse Niinimaki and Blake Wheeler. Wheeler is still developing, but he hasn't dominated college like some projected him too. We shall see. When you go off the board and hit, that's one thing, but going off the board and missing can definitely set a franchise back a few years.

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Old
02-01-2007, 07:02 AM
  #40
JimEIV
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
JimEIV -- I really disagree that taking a chance on an injury ridden guy who wasn't even ranked anywhere near the 1st round is stupid no matter where you're drafting or what your past is.

The Foster pick was stupid. Stupidly stupid. I said it at the time of the draft, I said it for the next few years, and I'm saying it now. It was a retarded pick no matter how you put it.

That is one of Conte's worst ever picks. Just horrendously stupid.

You just don't use your first round pick on someone like that.

There's not a doubt in my mind that he would've been available at their 2nd round pick. No one had hardly even heard of him!

Players Taken After Foster--But Before NJ's 2nd Pick

There really wasn't much there....So the hit or miss pick at 28 is completely justifiable in my opinion.



29 Chicago Adam Munro G Erie Otters (OHL) 17 0 1 1 2
30 Los Angeles Dave Steckel C Ohio State University (NCAA) 7 0 0 0 0


Round 2
31 Phoenix Matthew Spiller D Seattle Thunderbirds (WHL) 59 0 1 1 67
32 Buffalo Derek Roy C Kitchener Rangers (OHL) 119 27 38 65 69
33 Nashville Timofei Shishkanov L Moscow Spartak (Russia) 24 3 2 5 6
34 Florida Greg Watson C Prince Albert Raiders (WHL)
35 Anaheim Mark Popovic D Toronto St. Michael's Majors (OHL) 8 0 0 0 0
36 Minnesota Kyle Wanvig R Red Deer Rebels (WHL) 64 5 9 14 87
37 Mtl. Canadiens Duncan Milroy W Swift Current Broncos (WHL)
38 Columbus Tim Jackman W Minnesota State U - Mankato (NCAA) 27 1 2 3 37
39 Toronto Karel Pilar D Litvinov CHP HC (Czech) 90 6 24 30 42
40 NY Rangers Fedor Tyutin D St. Petersburg SKA (Russia) 102 8 24 32 72
41 Calgary Andrei Taratukhin C Omsk Avangard (Russia)
42 Nashville Tomas Slovak D Kosice HC (Slovak)
43 Edmonton Doug Lynch D Red Deer Rebels (WHL) 2 0 0 0 0

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Old
02-01-2007, 07:21 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by HankyFourFingers View Post
that is an absurd stat. I bet few teams even come close to it.
Heatley - Spezza - Alfredsson
Scaefer - Comrie - Eaves
Vermette - Fisher - Neil
McAmmond - Kelly - McGrattan

Redden - Meszaros
Volchenkov - Phillips
Corvo - Priessing
Scubert

Emery
Gerber

- 3 UFAs (McAmmond,Corvo,Gerber)
- 4 players aquired through trades (Heatley,Schaefer,Comrie,Preissing)
- Redden traded for Berard but he has only played in Ottawa.
- 14 players on the roster drafted by Ottawa. 15 players have only played in Ottawa.

New Jersey is clearly the bench mark in how to build a team but Ottawa comes close and if they can ever win a cup they would be in the Devils class.

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Old
02-01-2007, 07:32 AM
  #42
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My point in posting those draft selections is you have to look at that choice in context;

In the Context of that particular Draft, in the context of the Devils picking at number 28, in the context of the Devils particular situation of winning the Cup in 2000 and finishing within a game another cup in 2001.

When you look at that draft in context there really isn't a tremendous amount of talent atfter the top 8 to 10 picks.

Now I am not argueing that the selection was a good one, I am saying it was an acceptable one.

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Old
02-01-2007, 07:07 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
JimEIV -- I really disagree that taking a chance on an injury ridden guy who wasn't even ranked anywhere near the 1st round is stupid no matter where you're drafting or what your past is.

The Foster pick was stupid. Stupidly stupid. I said it at the time of the draft, I said it for the next few years, and I'm saying it now. It was a retarded pick no matter how you put it.

That is one of Conte's worst ever picks. Just horrendously stupid.

You just don't use your first round pick on someone like that.

There's not a doubt in my mind that he would've been available at their 2nd round pick. No one had hardly even heard of him!
I completely agree...and you wouldn't believe how many times he was brought up on the Devils board year after year as a potential roster player. He was massively overrated in Devils' circles when he was picked due to the high upside but everybody conveniently ignored the high risk of the pick.

Like you, I remember saying that it was a stupid pick when they made it but really...it didn't make much of a difference in the big picture.

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Old
02-01-2007, 07:17 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
Heatley - Spezza - Alfredsson
Scaefer - Comrie - Eaves
Vermette - Fisher - Neil
McAmmond - Kelly - McGrattan

Redden - Meszaros
Volchenkov - Phillips
Corvo - Priessing
Scubert

Emery
Gerber

- 3 UFAs (McAmmond,Corvo,Gerber)
- 4 players aquired through trades (Heatley,Schaefer,Comrie,Preissing)
- Redden traded for Berard but he has only played in Ottawa.
- 14 players on the roster drafted by Ottawa. 15 players have only played in Ottawa.

New Jersey is clearly the bench mark in how to build a team but Ottawa comes close and if they can ever win a cup they would be in the Devils class.
What's interesting about NJ is that of the five players on the roster who HAVE played for teams other than NJ: Langenbrunner, Dowd, Rupp, Rasmussen, and Lukowich, two of them were brought up in the Devils system, left, then returned.

So of the 23 players in the lineup, 20 of them were developed by the NJ system.

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Old
02-01-2007, 07:32 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
Hee's New Jersey's top two round disappointments in the same period:

Dewolf
Mason
Ward
Damphousse
Gron
Ahonen
Clouthier
Laine
suglobov
Demarchi
Pohanka
Pihlman
Kadeykin
Tallackson

I'm not sold on Frazee, Ryznar and Vrana either.

I can well imagine how much flak Conte would have received in Montreal if he had 14 top 60 picks that flopped - he'd have been hung by now.
Josh Dewolf from all the way back in 1996! (BTW, I didn't know Tallackson was a bust yet...)

In that same time period, Conte was partially or fully responsible for drafting Colin White (#49 in 1996), Mike Van Ryn (#27 in 1998), Scott Gomez (#28 in 1998), Mike Commodore (#42 in 1999), David Hale (#22 in 2000), Paul Martin (#62 - just out of the 2nd round?? in 2000), Zach Parise (#17 in 2003), and Travis Zajac (#20 in 2004) in the first two rounds in that time period.

I don't think any NHL team who knows what they are doing would throw out a successful record like that in the past 10 years; as all those guys (save Hale for this season) play plenty of minutes and regularly in the NHL.

Yeah Foster was a big swing and a miss; but the fact that's his most glaring problem and it didn't hurt the team in any large way is a testament to how good the Devils organization is and how good Conte is at his job.

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Old
02-02-2007, 10:37 AM
  #46
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Considering that you could field a really good team this season made up of only Conte's picks and undrafted fa signings without using any of the 1st rounders, I would say he's/the Devils have done an excellent job.

Elias - Morrison - Gionta
Pandolfo - Madden - Brylin
Rupp - McCauley - Sullivan
Tallackson - Yelle - berglund/suglobov/vrana

Rafalski - White
Mitchell - Souray
Martin - Bombardir
Greene -Commodore

Mason
Dunham

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