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The most unfair firing of an NHL coach was?

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Old
01-26-2014, 03:23 AM
  #51
Phil Parent
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Originally Posted by MadLuke View Post
In my head, Tremblay and Houle were named the same day in the same press conference.
Yes.

It was all about former Habs president Ronald Corey acting on a whim and deciding to make a move that would come back to bite him the ass, which is something he was prone to do. We're talking about the guy that forced his GM to trade Chris Chelios, here.

He fired both Demers & Savard.

The firing of Demers was way too hasty, unfair and devastating to the franchise in the grand scheme of things since it led to Corey moving the team's goodwill embassador to the GM office (Houle). 20 years later, the Canadiens have still not recovered from Ronald Corey. And yes I blame this all on Corey, Houle & Tremblay were friends who despite having zero experience at this really thought they could make it work. Can't blame two Habs loyalist for answering the call to serve. Rejean Houle is such a good man that people still cheer him in Alumni games despite the fact he wrecked the franchise. And the Habs gave him his old job back too. Shame Corey had to offer him this job he was totally unqualified for.

History might have been real different had Demers stayed, and he didn't deserve the axe. 4 games is not a season, even if they had missed the playoffs the year prior. Hell, one might make a point that SAVARD didn't deserve the axe, even though he was HATED VEHEMENTLY for trading Carbonneau, Desjardins/LeClair & Muller and would have been hated even more since he would have traded Roy to Colorado too (For Fiset & Nolan, if memory serves.) but he only traded Carbonneau for nothing because Corey told him to make it quick, and he got Pierre Turgeon, Mark Recchi & Vladimir Malakhov in his other deals, no chop liver.

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01-26-2014, 09:39 AM
  #52
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Corey messed up a lot of things but the glory days of the Habs were over one way or the other. There were much bigger systematic issues related to how the league operated that made sure of that. Corey played a big role in making sure the Habs would be a thoroughly mediocre franchise though, that's true. But even without him they would have been hard pressed to win another Cup.

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01-26-2014, 10:38 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
4 games is not a season
Crazy how thing went fast at the time, Pierre Turgeon trade for Corson was also kind of fast (and it was because he had only 9 points in the first 10 games or something like that).

For me that was that move that was maybe the worst and after that a lot of piece went for not much (Damphousse was traded for what ? maybe a draft pick if he signed there, Reechi for Zubrus, that was almost a firesale imo).

At the time I was very happy with the Muller trade and Reechi trade (Muller was kind of done as a elite player).

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01-26-2014, 03:44 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Roomtemperature View Post
Also its not unfair if it works.
It obviously worked but at the time I don't think the general feeling was that it was unfair, or even unexpected. The Julien firing caught everybody off guard, but I seem to recall Ftorek's being rumored.

They had only 5 wins in their last 16 games at the time after dominating the first part of the season and had just been embarrassed 5-0 by the Hurricanes when the axe dropped. The feeling was the team was in free fall and that Ftorek had lost the room.

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01-26-2014, 04:07 PM
  #55
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The Stars dropping Dave Tippett for Marc Crawford was pretty awful.

I gotta say that the oilers dropping Ralph Krueger after just the partial season was extremely unfair too.

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01-26-2014, 04:11 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
Corey messed up a lot of things but the glory days of the Habs were over one way or the other. There were much bigger systematic issues related to how the league operated that made sure of that. Corey played a big role in making sure the Habs would be a thoroughly mediocre franchise though, that's true. But even without him they would have been hard pressed to win another Cup.
I don't know about that.

The Habs were primed to be one of the top teams in the league.

They had a pretty great roster, even after the Leclair/Desjardins for Recchi debacle.

Roy
Turgeon
Damphousse
Recchi
Koivu
V. Bure
Conroy
Malakhov
Odelein
Quintal
Brisebois

There's no reason this team couldn't have competed for cups if they kept the core in place. Instead what happened was Houle ruined the team.

He turned those core players into this within 2.5 years.

Thibault
Rucinsky
Kovalenko
Corson
Zubrus
Hoglund
Zalapski
Souray
Richer

The habs were a team on the brink of contention that were completely dismantled and turned into a joke.

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01-26-2014, 04:21 PM
  #57
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Michel Bergeron with the Rangers on the verge of making the playoffs was fired with just 2 games to go in the regular season by Espo just because he asked for a contract extension.

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01-26-2014, 04:38 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
I don't know about that.

The Habs were primed to be one of the top teams in the league.

They had a pretty great roster, even after the Leclair/Desjardins for Recchi debacle.

Roy
Turgeon
Damphousse
Recchi
Koivu
V. Bure
Conroy
Malakhov
Odelein
Quintal
Brisebois

There's no reason this team couldn't have competed for cups if they kept the core in place. Instead what happened was Houle ruined the team.

He turned those core players into this within 2.5 years.

Thibault
Rucinsky
Kovalenko
Corson
Zubrus
Hoglund
Zalapski
Souray
Richer

The habs were a team on the brink of contention that were completely dismantled and turned into a joke.
Yes, they still would have been competitive. Too proud to tank it and go for a top draft pick, Savard always knew when to move a player and bring in solid assets to keep them contenders. Very underrated GM. And certainly the best since Pollock.


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01-26-2014, 04:43 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
I don't know about that.

The Habs were primed to be one of the top teams in the league.

They had a pretty great roster, even after the Leclair/Desjardins for Recchi debacle.

Roy
Turgeon
Damphousse
Recchi
Koivu
V. Bure
Conroy
Malakhov
Odelein
Quintal
Brisebois

There's no reason this team couldn't have competed for cups if they kept the core in place. Instead what happened was Houle ruined the team.

He turned those core players into this within 2.5 years.

Thibault
Rucinsky
Kovalenko
Corson
Zubrus
Hoglund
Zalapski
Souray
Richer

The habs were a team on the brink of contention that were completely dismantled and turned into a joke.
Do you think that roster headlined by a guy like Turgeon wins a Cup in the era of the great Western teams?

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01-26-2014, 06:11 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
Do you think that roster headlined by a guy like Turgeon wins a Cup in the era of the great Western teams?
Well the Habs won in 86 and 93 when there were two dynasties underway. As long as your competitive and have good goaltending, anything can happen in the playoffs. The 67 Leafs are also another good example of this.

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Old
01-26-2014, 08:56 PM
  #61
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A little off topic here but the St Louis Blues fired Bill McCreary on Christmas day in 1971. Can't say it wasn't deserved but could have picked a different day.

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01-26-2014, 09:31 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by STLBlueshistory View Post
A little off topic here but the St Louis Blues fired Bill McCreary on Christmas day in 1971. Can't say it wasn't deserved but could have picked a different day.
Ya, pretty messed up & confused situation in St.Louis there circa 1970/71, 71/72, 72/73 & so on. Sid Salomon III. Without looking it up, wasnt Bowman fired in the spring of 71 (and of course almost immediately hired by Montreal replacing Al MacNeil who'd just guided the Habs to a Stanley Cup) and Bill McCreary Sr. appointed "Interim Head Coach"? Wasnt supposed to be permanent. Al Arbour, the Blues original Captain became interested in Coaching under Scotty Bowman & when the Blues got off to a "poorish" start in 71 Bill McCreary was let go to make room for Arbour who'd by then retired as a player. Arbour Coached the rest of the 71/72 season & either part of or all of the 72/73 season then joined the Islanders where like Scotty but post Montreals Dynasty went on to win multiple Cups... I guess if I was a Blues fan, might feel a little miffed with Salomon huh? And ya, December 25th. Merry Christmas Billy. Thats real Class that is. And not the first time its happened in the NHL. Jack Adams of Detroit received a Christmas Card shoved under his door from Bruce Norris wishing him a Merry Christmas & btw, your fired. Say what you will about the often unpleasant Jolly Jack Adams but no one deserves that. He'd been with Detroit since before they were the Red Wings, still called the Cougars, innovative Coach & GM, loyal, never had a long term Contract himself just went on a handshake year in year out with the Norris's, won all kinds of league championships, Stanley Cups, built the organization into what it had become right through the 50's, early 60's.

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Old
01-26-2014, 09:51 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Ya, pretty messed up & confused situation in St.Louis there circa 1970/71, 71/72, 72/73 & so on. Sid Salomon III. Without looking it up, wasnt Bowman fired in the spring of 71 (and of course almost immediately hired by Montreal replacing Al MacNeil who'd just guided the Habs to a Stanley Cup) and Bill McCreary Sr. appointed "Interim Head Coach"? Wasnt supposed to be permanent. Al Arbour, the Blues original Captain became interested in Coaching under Scotty Bowman & when the Blues got off to a "poorish" start in 71 Bill McCreary was let go to make room for Arbour who'd by then retired as a player. Arbour Coached the rest of the 71/72 season & either part of or all of the 72/73 season then joined the Islanders where like Scotty but post Montreals Dynasty went on to win multiple Cups... I guess if I was a Blues fan, might feel a little miffed with Salomon huh? And ya, December 25th. Merry Christmas Billy. Thats real Class that is.
Responding to the bold....

Of course it depends who you believe as to if Bowman was fired or not. My thought is Bowman used the Blues job to advance his career and was not going to stay there for a long period of time. To me it showed in part by the building of the team with veteran guys & I think he also showed it in how me moved around and looked for the next 'best' opportunity. Of course that's a discussion for another day.

Sid Abel actually started behind the bench in 1971-72 and then McCreary was named Head Coach.

Arbour was fired early in 1972-73. After that & before joining the Islanders he did work for Atlanta as a Scout.

I have no problems with the Salomon's. Without them who knows if & when St Louis would have had a NHL team. Did they do everything correct? Heck no. Then again how many owners have, I am grateful for the Salomon's.

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01-26-2014, 09:55 PM
  #64
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The Blues fired Bowman? Really? I had always thought the habs just threw more money at him.

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01-26-2014, 10:01 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
The Blues fired Bowman? Really? I had always thought the habs just threw more money at him.
Like I said in my previous post. It depends on who you believe.

From June 1st issue of The Hockey News.


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01-26-2014, 10:22 PM
  #66
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I only read your post after i wrote mine.

It sounds similar to the awkward way Pat Burns left the Habs to join the Leafs. He seemed to resign, but some say he was pushed by Savard. A couple of days later he joins the Leafs.

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01-26-2014, 11:01 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by STLBlueshistory View Post
Of course it depends who you believe as to if Bowman was fired or not. My thought is Bowman used the Blues job to advance his career and was not going to stay there for a long period of time..... Arbour was fired early in 1972-73. After that & before joining the Islanders he did work for Atlanta as a Scout.
Entirely plausible theory, sure enough. Most accounts do suggest he left as a the "result of a dispute with ownership" without any explanation as to what that dispute was about or over. However in Ken Drydens book The Game, he posits that after the Blues finished in 2nd place in their Division & then had an early exit in the 1/4 finals to Expansion rivals Minnesota, tensions were running high between Sid Solomon III & Bowman... The day after that loss in Minnesota they had a meeting in which Salomon told Bowman; he didnt want Al Arbour Coaching the team, he didnt want Cliff Fletcher employed as Scottys Assistant, and he wanted to terminate the teams trainer. Well, naturally, Bowman rebelled, wasnt about to be dictated to so he resigned with the story being that just a few days later the Habs' call him up out of the blue & the rest as we know is history. Alternate story; Bowman was fired by Salomon when he refused to accede to his demands about Arbour, Fletcher & the trainer. Regardless, as you mention, Abel followed by McCreary followed by Arbour & away we go. 16 months later or so only the trainer remained, his job save by a player rebellion. Just why Salomon had a problem with that particular trainer absolutely no idea. Seems very bizarre.

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01-26-2014, 11:22 PM
  #68
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Entirely plausible theory, sure enough. Most accounts do suggest he left as a the "result of a dispute with ownership" without any explanation as to what that dispute was about or over. However in Ken Drydens book The Game, he posits that after the Blues finished in 2nd place in their Division & then had an early exit in the 1/4 finals to Expansion rivals Minnesota, tensions were running high between Sid Solomon III & Bowman... The day after that loss in Minnesota they had a meeting in which Salomon told Bowman; he didnt want Al Arbour Coaching the team, he didnt want Cliff Fletcher employed as Scottys Assistant, and he wanted to terminate the teams trainer. Well, naturally, Bowman rebelled, wasnt about to be dictated to so he resigned with the story being that just a few days later the Habs' call him up out of the blue & the rest as we know is history. Alternate story; Bowman was fired by Salomon when he refused to accede to his demands about Arbour, Fletcher & the trainer. Regardless, as you mention, Abel followed by McCreary followed by Arbour & away we go. 16 months later or so only the trainer remained, his job save by a player rebellion. Just why Salomon had a problem with that particular trainer absolutely no idea. Seems very bizarre.
Salomon seems very bizzare. Doesn't want Al Arbour coaching the team? The Islanders say "thank you" for four Stanley Cups.

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01-26-2014, 11:34 PM
  #69
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Like I said in my previous post. It depends on who you believe.
Question is, did anyone else in the St. Louis media refer to it at the time as anything but a "negotiated resignation"? Those closest to the source would probably be better tuned in.

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01-27-2014, 12:05 AM
  #70
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Salomon seems very bizzare. Doesn't want Al Arbour coaching the team? The Islanders say "thank you" for four Stanley Cups.
Indeed. The picture in the article above is of the Blues Trainer Tom Woodcock who Salomon also wanted fired. Odd that his pictures just sitting in the report with no explanation as to why huh?... I mean, the whole things just bizarre, the way it all went down. Whether Bowman orchestrated his firing or if he did quit, the timing is highly suspect & Id imagine from at least the 80's on if Bowman did quit Salomon wouldve had a case to complain about possible tampering to the league in regards to Pollock & Montreal.

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Question is, did anyone else in the St. Louis media refer to it at the time as anything but a "negotiated resignation"? Those closest to the source would probably be better tuned in.
All Ive ever been able to uncover is that brief paragraph in Drydens book, everywhere else referring to it as a "negotiated resignation" or "dispute with ownership". That includes the Habs website, the HHOF, the St.Louis Sports Hall of Fame, the Red Wings site, wiki, you name it. Pretty much everywhere you look. Sort of the "official version" I guess.... Beyond that, appears to be some serious weirdness/eccentricities going on in St.Louis with Salomon. In 1974 he hires Garry Young as Head Coach. Garry had been a Scout with the Bruins and in 71 was hired by Charlie O. Finley in California to Manage the Seals. Few months in, he fires Vic Stasiuk and takes over the Coaching duties as well. For reasons unknown he created 3 or 4 duplicate copies of Dick Redmonds Players Contract all with different amounts in them, and when Redmonds paychecks started up & every couple of weeks featured vastly different amounts, starts asking questions. Dunno why, what happened there but Charlie fires Young then trades Redmond, gets him out of town, buried, gone & forgotten, all fixed.... then Salomon hires Garry Young in 74 where he Coaches for a couple of years before getting fired, Lynn Patrick stepping in yet again to Coach the Blues.... so from the ownership suite to their Coaches & GM's, some very interesting times in St.Louis, and really from right out of the box, awarded a franchise in 67 without even an owner applying.


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01-27-2014, 11:43 PM
  #71
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Do you think that roster headlined by a guy like Turgeon wins a Cup in the era of the great Western teams?
2 things:

1) Colorado would have been a non-factor without acquiring Roy
2) St. Louis was one of those great western teams, lead by of course Turgeon up front.

Montreal and New Jersey would have bee the class of the East with Detroit and Dallas being the best teams out west. Montreal may or may not have been able to beat those teams, in fact the 97/98 Detroit teams is a basically a non-starter unless Montreal was able to get incredible goaltending from Roy, but Detroit was likely just too strong and Turgeon definitely would have been shut down by Fedorov. However 96 and 99-01 would have been realistic years they could have contended, and if Montreal had a competent GM capable of adding a winger or two there's no reason to believe Montreal couldn't have been in the mix those years.


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01-27-2014, 11:57 PM
  #72
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Yes, they still wouldn't been competitive. Too proud to tank it and go for a top draft pick, Savard always knew when to move a player and bring in solid assets to keep them contenders. Very underrated GM. And certainly the best since Pollock.
How would that team not be competitive? That's some serious depth at center. That core was basically broken up and turned into the core of all the power house teams shortly after.

Recchi became a core player on the Flyers
Damphousse on the Sharks
Turgeon and Conroy on the Blues
Roy on the Avs

Those were all cornerstone players on the best teams in the league, and most of them were the best player on their respective teams. Habs could have moved Koivu to wing, or hell, they could have even traded him for some serious help on the wing since he was one of the top prospects in the NHL at the time. That was a team that was definitely on the brink of contention as all of those players were still in their primes or in the case of Recchi and Damphousse still very effective.

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01-28-2014, 12:49 AM
  #73
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How would that team not be competitive? That's some serious depth at center. That core was basically broken up and turned into the core of all the power house teams shortly after.

Recchi became a core player on the Flyers
Damphousse on the Sharks
Turgeon and Conroy on the Blues
Roy on the Avs

Those were all cornerstone players on the best teams in the league, and most of them were the best player on their respective teams. Habs could have moved Koivu to wing, or hell, they could have even traded him for some serious help on the wing since he was one of the top prospects in the NHL at the time. That was a team that was definitely on the brink of contention as all of those players were still in their primes or in the case of Recchi and Damphousse still very effective.
Sorry. Typo. Meant would have,. I'm arguing the same thing as you if you read some of my posts.

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02-01-2014, 11:29 AM
  #74
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Ralph Krueger in Edmonton was most unfair firing. As if it was his fault.

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02-01-2014, 11:46 AM
  #75
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Here's a little insight on the two Devils firings.

Robbie Ftorek's team was in great shape for a while but they were sinking... It all came to a head in Detroit when Ftorek pulled this gem:



They had lost 9 or 16 and Ftorek flipped out so Lou canned him and promoted Robinson which was a fantastic move obviously.


Claude Julien was losing the locker room. The players didn't want to play for him and Lou started to dislike how the team was run. A player ( we think it was John Madden ) fired a puck at him at practice just to see how he'd react. Lou stepped in again and fired the coach and went behind the bench himself.

Two odd firings... yes. The team was in great shapes both times. In 2000 it worked out as they won the cup. In 2006, They finished the season with an 11 game winning streak and swept the Rangers in the first round but got crushed in the second round by Carolina.

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