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Old
01-28-2014, 02:28 PM
  #776
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Originally Posted by JPP4121 View Post
"Where is the money coming from to upgrade the roster?

That's with Miller and Fast making the team, only (2) reserve players and Brassard taking less than his QO of 3.7 million."
Viper

In regards to an impact player, maybe next year the rangers don't bring in an impact player. If you are able to resign Girardi and Stralman, well then your D is set for years. We are set there.

I'd like to have Boyle back. But Im thinking closing to 2mil a year. maybe 4-5 years.

Id have to say eventually, unless he blossoms and becomes consistent, Brassard is the odd man out and maybe its not next year. Maybe its the next year, and then the Rangers have to either somehow try to get a 1center or keep stepan at 1c and find a 2nd line center with that.

additionally once your getting to next year, then the question comes up about staal. IF stall stays then someone becomes expendable. Whether that be any of the 6 the rangers have now, or lets say Allen, MCI, or SKeji. IF staal leaves, you have his money to bring in players.

Also the cap will supposedly go up again next summer right.

So again I say, Im not gonna try to give a stanley cup roster for next year. Bc Im not gonna deal in absolutes and extremes, thats not realistic. But to say that adding a couple pieces here or there and upgrading here and there won't add up to a team that can win a cup within the next 3-4 years, isn't true either.
Brassard + the cap increasing will be taken up by giving the home-grown guys their raises. You aren't using the numbers because they can't support the argument you are making. Paying these guys what the market will fetch means they will be paid like absolute team leaders and consistent difference makers.

Prove it me with numbers that this can work and compete consistently with the best in the league. Prove it to me that they will have enough funds to bring in another difference maker who can help carry this team.

I'm not speaking in absolutes, I am using numbers to back up what I think should happen.

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01-28-2014, 02:32 PM
  #777
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Callahan does both--hits and blocked shots. Callahan when healthy--easily over 200 hits every year. It would take Drury 4 or 5 seasons to register as many as Cally has done in one year.
That only reinforces the point though, no? Callahan's body will break down sooner than Drury's because of his playing style being harder to continue into a later age.

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Panuef is a retard man. Talk about a lug head. You could tell what a doof that guys was on 24/7. That guy will never win and any team with him as their main piece will never win.

Steen? steens a great player. but if your gonna try say that Callahan is not of his caliber, then thats what I referred to in my 1st post, as shameful.
I agree with that point, but he got 7 million. How can anyone say Girardi deserves 5.5 when Phaneuf just got 7? He deserves more than 5.5.

Steen is a premier 2-way forward who is having a career year. He got less than what Callahan will get because of his concussion history.

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01-28-2014, 02:33 PM
  #778
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Panuef is a retard man. Talk about a lug head. You could tell what a doof that guys was on 24/7. That guy will never win and any team with him as their main piece will never win.

Steen? steens a great player. but if your gonna try say that Callahan is not of his caliber, then thats what I referred to in my 1st post, as shameful.
Callahan's career high was 29 goals in 76 games. Steen is nearing that total after 40 games. Granted this is a career year for Steen and thus was paid like it. This is not a career year for Callahan where he is not on pace to even score 20 goals or more than 45 points. Why should he be paid like the player who scored 29 goals 2 1/2 years ago?

That is not shameful. That is smart cap management. Paying Callahan 6.5-7 million a year downright foolish.

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01-28-2014, 02:34 PM
  #779
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show me in the numbers how much the cap is gonna go up for the 2015-16 season. SHow me the numbers for what Staal decides to do, or what Brassard does next year. Show me the numbers for the level at which Miller, Fast, Lindberg, Kristo are playing at…

Your trying to goat me with something I can't give. BC I don't know the deals. Your so wrapped up in this thinking on these boards, that you can. I don't know what the guys this year will make, I don't know who plays themselves on or off this team next year. I don't know the salary cap.


Let me take this a different direction Viper. IS there any part of what I've said that you agree with? Or nothing at all?

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01-28-2014, 02:35 PM
  #780
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I am going with they bring back everyone except Boyle, Carcillo, Falk and maybe Pouliot

They do not really upgrade the roster unless it's from the prospects who surprise.

I think in their opinion this roster is good enough to make the playoffs, from there they are happy.

I just don;'t think they are going to get all crazy and bold, I think they'll measure what they can sign their players for against what they could sign other team free agents for when they are allowed to talk, and it will come down to their players actually requiring better contracts then the other UFAs would.

That is if the players themselves even want to stay here, which is no guarantee.

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01-28-2014, 02:35 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
That only reinforces the point though, no? Callahan's body will break down sooner than Drury's because of his playing style being harder to continue into a later age.



I agree with that point, but he got 7 million. How can anyone say Girardi deserves 5.5 when Phaneuf just got 7? He deserves more than 5.5.

Steen is a premier 2-way forward who is having a career year. He got less than what Callahan will get because of his concussion history.
Steen was barely a 50 point player prior to this year. That hardly qualifies as a premier 2 way forward (Datsyuk).

Steen is going to cool down. His shooting% is such an anomaly when you look at his career.

Callahan hasn't exactly stayed healthy himself. Even if Steen had concussion issues, Callahan overall has some durability issues.

Steen is having a career year and got 5.9. Callahan is having one of the worst years of his career and wants to be paid 6.5+? It just makes such little sense to me.

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01-28-2014, 02:39 PM
  #782
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
That contract screwed us. How that buffoon got 7 million a year, I don't know. His game REGRESSED since his days in Calgary. He's an even worse skater now, his offense has gone down and his defensive game, although improved is not leaps and bounds above where he was in Calgary.

How he deserves to be paid anywhere close to what Suter and Weber are making is beyond me.
He isn't paid anywhere close to Suter and Weber.

Weber makes/made $14m in each of the first 4 years of his deal and $12m for the next two. $6m a bunch after that. Average of $12.28m over the first 7 years. Suter makes $12m in the first two years, $11m the next year, $9m for the next 5 years. $10.14m over the first 7 years. Phaneuf makes $8m in the first two years, progressively going down to $5.5m in the last year. It's a 7 year deal and averages $7m over that span. Taken at even, simple 7 year contracts, which would have been the max length for either player under today's CBA, he makes $3m less than Suter and $5m less than Weber.

As for why Phaneuf deserves $1m-1.5m more than Girardi? Despite his "regression" from his Calgary days (he's actually a better defensive player now, but whatever...), he still puts up ~38 points per 82 games played. Girardi puts up ~27. Phaneuf is a better offensive player. He's as good defensively (or nearly so, at least).

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01-28-2014, 02:39 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by JPP4121 View Post
show me in the numbers how much the cap is gonna go up for the 2015-16 season. SHow me the numbers for what Staal decides to do, or what Brassard does next year. Show me the numbers for the level at which Miller, Fast, Lindberg, Kristo are playing at…

Your trying to goat me with something I can't give. BC I don't know the deals. Your so wrapped up in this thinking on these boards, that you can. I don't know what the guys this year will make, I don't know who plays themselves on or off this team next year. I don't know the salary cap.


Let me take this a different direction Viper. IS there any part of what I've said that you agree with? Or nothing at all?
I'm not goading you into anything. You are speaking in hypotheticals left and right. Make a firm stand and show us what you want to do moving forward. Is that not what you asked from those of us who feel the best course is to move the players?

Of course there are hesitations to move the players. I like Callahan and Girardi and would love them back at 5-5.5 million each. That way there would be money leftover moving forward to upgrade the team which I feel is necessary if they want to truly compete with the Pittsburgh's, Chicago's, Boston's of the league.

However, when looking at the facts of what this ff-season will bring as far as contracts go and what we saw last off-season and players re-signing during this off-season, I feel I can make a relatively accurate educated guess as to what they will command from Sather and the Open Market.

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01-28-2014, 02:39 PM
  #784
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2008–09 New York Rangers NHL 81 22 18 40 45 7 2 0 2 4
2009–10 New York Rangers NHL 77 19 18 37 48 — — — — —
2010–11 New York Rangers NHL 60 23 25 48 46 — — — — —
2011–12 New York Rangers NHL 76 29 25 54 61 20 6 4 10 12
2012–13 New York Rangers NHL 45 16 15 31 12 12 2 3 5 6


Thats callahan stats.

first two seasons, 20 goal scorer.
Third season 23g in 60 games
4th season 29g in 76games
5th season 16g in 45games (about 30 goals for a full)

Callahan has made himself in pretty much a consistent 30 goal scorer. I don't know why you'd want to take that away from him.



Hahaha and go take a look at Steen's career stats. Like Im looking at presently.


This doesn't take into account Callahan value as a captain, an all-around player, a PK, end of game player, can play a puck-possesion shutdown game against other teams top lines.

Like I said, I think its shameful the lack of credit being given

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01-28-2014, 02:42 PM
  #785
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Originally Posted by JPP4121 View Post
2008–09 New York Rangers NHL 81 22 18 40 45 7 2 0 2 4
2009–10 New York Rangers NHL 77 19 18 37 48 — — — — —
2010–11 New York Rangers NHL 60 23 25 48 46 — — — — —
2011–12 New York Rangers NHL 76 29 25 54 61 20 6 4 10 12
2012–13 New York Rangers NHL 45 16 15 31 12 12 2 3 5 6


Thats callahan stats.

first two seasons, 20 goal scorer.
Third season 23g in 60 games
4th season 29g in 76games
5th season 16g in 45games (about 30 goals for a full)

Callahan has made himself in pretty much a consistent 30 goal scorer. I don't know why you'd want to take that away from him.



Hahaha and go take a look at Steen's career stats. Like Im looking at presently.


This doesn't take into account Callahan value as a captain, an all-around player, a PK, end of game player, can play a puck-possesion shutdown game against other teams top lines.

Like I said, I think its shameful the lack of credit being given
Callahan is the first 30 goal scorer who has never scored 30 goals in a season.

His injury history, and how that will effect the rest of his career, is not only a big factor in this conversation, but is probably the biggest factor when talking about potentially investing long-term.

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01-28-2014, 02:42 PM
  #786
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Originally Posted by JPP4121 View Post
2008–09 New York Rangers NHL 81 22 18 40 45 7 2 0 2 4
2009–10 New York Rangers NHL 77 19 18 37 48 — — — — —
2010–11 New York Rangers NHL 60 23 25 48 46 — — — — —
2011–12 New York Rangers NHL 76 29 25 54 61 20 6 4 10 12
2012–13 New York Rangers NHL 45 16 15 31 12 12 2 3 5 6


Thats callahan stats.

first two seasons, 20 goal scorer.
Third season 23g in 60 games
4th season 29g in 76games
5th season 16g in 45games (about 30 goals for a full)

Callahan has made himself in pretty much a consistent 30 goal scorer. I don't know why you'd want to take that away from him.



Hahaha and go take a look at Steen's career stats. Like Im looking at presently.


This doesn't take into account Callahan value as a captain, an all-around player, a PK, end of game player, can play a puck-possesion shutdown game against other teams top lines.

Like I said, I think its shameful the lack of credit being given
It is not the lack of credit. It is about the now. Callahan is not having a very good year. On pace for 19 goals and 41 points. If you don't think that should play a factor in negotiations then I don't know what to tell you.

No 41 point player should make 6.5+ million and the reality is that this year is a contract year for Callahan and he is performing like a 40 point player.

Also, BRB makes a good point above regarding his injury history. What if this is a sign of him starting to slow down?

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01-28-2014, 02:43 PM
  #787
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Come on man, the hypothetical line. This is why I stayed away from posting for as long as I did. Again, are you going to try telling me, that the things I've brought up have no basis when determining the plan going forward.

I think I made a firm stand from my first post onward today. This stuff is quantum, there are multiple factors involved. Its not black and white man.

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01-28-2014, 02:43 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Gardner McKay View Post
Steen was barely a 50 point player prior to this year. That hardly qualifies as a premier 2 way forward (Datsyuk).

Steen is going to cool down. His shooting% is such an anomaly when you look at his career.

Callahan hasn't exactly stayed healthy himself. Even if Steen had concussion issues, Callahan overall has some durability issues.

Steen is having a career year and got 5.9. Callahan is having one of the worst years of his career and wants to be paid 6.5+? It just makes such little sense to me.
If Callahan reaches UFA like Clarkson, who received 5.25 from the Leafs for 7 years, he will easily break the 6+ barrier.

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01-28-2014, 02:43 PM
  #789
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Let's give a 2nd/3rd line player getting 2nd PP/PK minutes with an injury history $6M! That'll work out swell!

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01-28-2014, 02:44 PM
  #790
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Originally Posted by JPP4121 View Post
Come on man, the hypothetical line. This is why I stayed away from posting for as long as I did. Again, are you going to try telling me, that the things I've brought up have no basis when determining the plan going forward.

I think I made a firm stand from my first post onward today. This stuff is quantum, there are multiple factors involved. Its not black and white man.
So your plan is to not have a plan and just go with it? Sounds like Sather...

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01-28-2014, 02:46 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by JPP4121 View Post
2008–09 New York Rangers NHL 81 22 18 40 45 7 2 0 2 4
2009–10 New York Rangers NHL 77 19 18 37 48 — — — — —
2010–11 New York Rangers NHL 60 23 25 48 46 — — — — —
2011–12 New York Rangers NHL 76 29 25 54 61 20 6 4 10 12
2012–13 New York Rangers NHL 45 16 15 31 12 12 2 3 5 6


Thats callahan stats.

first two seasons, 20 goal scorer.
Third season 23g in 60 games
4th season 29g in 76games
5th season 16g in 45games (about 30 goals for a full)

Callahan has made himself in pretty much a consistent 30 goal scorer. I don't know why you'd want to take that away from him.



Hahaha and go take a look at Steen's career stats. Like Im looking at presently.


This doesn't take into account Callahan value as a captain, an all-around player, a PK, end of game player, can play a puck-possesion shutdown game against other teams top lines.

Like I said, I think its shameful the lack of credit being given
Yes, let's pay him for his intangibles, that worked out well last time.

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01-28-2014, 02:47 PM
  #792
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If Callahan reaches UFA like Clarkson, who received 5.25 from the Leafs for 7 years, he will easily break the 6+ barrier.
That is true but has nothing to do with what I am saying. If Callahan wants to go that route, then go to FA. If he wants to stay on the Rangers then he takes less than 6 million.

Steen with 26 goals in 40 games could have pulled in more money as a UFA than 5.9 million per. Obviously he wanted to stay with STL. If Callahan wants the extra million a year then he can go the FA route. All I am saying is he shouldn't be getting it from the Rangers.

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01-28-2014, 02:48 PM
  #793
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Why not do something mutually beneficial like trading a UFA and an RFA for a UFA and an RFA. Girardi and Brassard for Stastny and Barrie and the difference in money in a pick like a 3rd. Rangers offense gets better, Colorado's D gets better, Rangers get an RD back and Colorado gets depth at C.

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01-28-2014, 02:48 PM
  #794
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That is true but has nothing to do with what I am saying. If Callahan wants to go that route, then go to FA. If he wants to stay on the Rangers then he takes less than 6 million.

Steen with 26 goals in 40 games could have pulled in more money as a UFA than 5.9 million per. Obviously he wanted to stay with STL. If Callahan wants the extra million a year then he can go the FA route. All I am saying is he shouldn't be getting it from the Rangers.
I agree with you. But don't you think that if he was willing to take a bit of a discount, ala Steen, he would have been signed?

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01-28-2014, 02:48 PM
  #795
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I wouldn't give callahan a deal at 6.5 per. I would love a deal at 5mil and 6 id be willing to do, hesitantly, but I think I would. And I have to admit my personal feeling towards the player push me in that direction.

I brought this up earlier. Ola had brought the idea of using 8 year deals as a tactic. Some teams have to add cap just to reach the cap floor. So if you front load a deal and the last 3-4 years the guy is making 2.5 or something reasonable. Theres a good chance their will be takers for these contracts when the need to move them is there. I don't know if Buffalo would be in that situation. But I could see buffalo bringing in an aging Callahan, who will be a big name there, still be able to kill PK, give you some admiral work. If it helps them hit the cap floor without actually having to pay those dollars, they are owners and teams who work within a structure where that is very very inticing.

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01-28-2014, 02:50 PM
  #796
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Drury and Parrish were physical players?
no they were not.

which really only strengthens the poitn he is trying to make.

Taking those two player our of the equation the decline for physical players beyond their 30th bday is more severe with the exception of Peca.

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01-28-2014, 02:50 PM
  #797
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I wouldn't give callahan a deal at 6.5 per. I would love a deal at 5mil and 6 id be willing to do, hesitantly, but I think I would. And I have to admit my personal feeling towards the player push me in that direction.

I brought this up earlier. Ola had brought the idea of using 8 year deals as a tactic. Some teams have to add cap just to reach the cap floor. So if you front load a deal and the last 3-4 years the guy is making 2.5 or something reasonable. Theres a good chance their will be takers for these contracts when the need to move them is there. I don't know if Buffalo would be in that situation. But I could see buffalo bringing in an aging Callahan, who will be a big name there, still be able to kill PK, give you some admiral work. If it helps them hit the cap floor without actually having to pay those dollars, they are owners and teams who work within a structure where that is very very inticing.
I don't believe you can drop the contract from 6 million to 2.5 million anymore.

You can always trade the player and keep a portion of the salary/cap hit but isn't that a bit of a red flag? If you are thinking you will have to dump the contract at the end of the deal, shouldn't that be enough evidence that it's a bad deal?

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01-28-2014, 02:51 PM
  #798
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The thing that concerns me about Callahan is that he no longer brings the "intangibles" on a consistent basis. He used to set the tone of a game with a big hit or generate sustained offensive pressure due to his forechecking ability, and I haven't seen much of that this year. I have to wonder if the injuries are already starting to take its toll.

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01-28-2014, 02:52 PM
  #799
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Interesting that Clark felt that last season was a good year, while Sather said anything less than a cup is a failure. Either they aren't on the same page in terms of defining success for this organization, or Sather is just spouting more of his doublespeak.
Not only that, but what else is Clarke supposed to say?

Yeah you're right, last year sucked balls?

He's part of the overall problem along with Gorton and Sather.

He's going to defend it and had they missed the PO's he would have provided you with excuse after excuse as to why.

take what these guys say with a grain of salt.

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01-28-2014, 02:52 PM
  #800
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The thing that concerns me about Callahan is that he no longer brings the "intangibles" on a consistent basis. He used to set the tone of a game with a big hit or generate sustained offensive pressure due to his forechecking ability, and I haven't seen much of that this year. I have to wonder if the injuries are already starting to take its toll.
He has to change his game because his body can't take the punishment it used to. It happens as players get older.

Nash does the same thing.

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