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Timonen throws down the gauntlet

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Old
01-28-2014, 11:48 AM
  #76
Hockeypete49
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute;78851837[B
]I so hope we trade him to a quality team [/B]with a real shot for anything. he deserves a cup.
Please make it happen. I will be so happy for him and for the Flyers.

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01-28-2014, 01:43 PM
  #77
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If we send Kimmo packing that means we are ensuring Coburn is our go to vet guy as the prospects mature.

Idk about that.

I want Kimmo to have a cup, but replacing him is going to come at a cost.

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01-28-2014, 01:51 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
If we send Kimmo packing that means we are ensuring Coburn is our go to vet guy as the prospects mature.

Idk about that.

I want Kimmo to have a cup, but replacing him is going to come at a cost.
This will most likely be his final year, so either way Coburn will be the vet and replacing Timonen will cost. I'd rather trade him to a real contender and get something back than take away his chance to win the Cup and lose him for nothing.

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01-28-2014, 01:53 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
If we send Kimmo packing that means we are ensuring Coburn is our go to vet guy as the prospects mature.

Idk about that.

I want Kimmo to have a cup, but replacing him is going to come at a cost.
He might retire this year anyway.

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01-28-2014, 02:04 PM
  #80
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It makes so much sense that it won't with Homer & Snider at the helm because both of them are delusional with their outlook of this team.
That's the one thing that really scares me about this club. Whoever the new GM is, they'll either be a yes man to Snider or they'll stand up to him and he'll can them. Whoever the new GM is, they need to be straight with Snider and let him know that the club simply isn't a Stanley Cup contender and that they'll need to draft and develop players and it's going to take a few years.

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01-28-2014, 02:08 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
If we send Kimmo packing that means we are ensuring Coburn is our go to vet guy as the prospects mature.

Idk about that.

I want Kimmo to have a cup, but replacing him is going to come at a cost.
Kimmo's pretty much gone by the end of the year anyway. They might be able to squeeze another year out of him, but his impact on the current crop of defensive prospects will be minimal at best. It's pretty much a given at this point that Coburn and Streit will be tasked with guiding the young guys through the process of becoming NHL defensemen.

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01-28-2014, 03:57 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
That's the one thing that really scares me about this club. Whoever the new GM is, they'll either be a yes man to Snider or they'll stand up to him and he'll can them. Whoever the new GM is, they need to be straight with Snider and let him know that the club simply isn't a Stanley Cup contender and that they'll need to draft and develop players and it's going to take a few years.
I like how we need a new gm to do something we have been doing for 2 years now in regards to prospects.

I also love how "you guys" just assume this isn't what's being said behind closed doors.

no gm or owner is going to come out in the media and say "we blow so bad, might as well stop buying tix/merchandise." you are just going to get safe "I like this team, you never know" answers.

have none of "you" been in management/pr/politics? its all lies and spin.


Last edited by achdumeingute: 01-28-2014 at 04:06 PM.
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01-28-2014, 04:01 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
I like how we need a new gm to do something we have been doing for 2 years now.

I also love how "you guys" just assume this isn't what's being said behind closed doors.

no gm or owner is going to come out in the media and say "we blow so bad, might as well stop buying tix/merchandise." you are just going to get safe "I like this team, you never know" answers.

have none of "you" been in management/pr/politics? its all lies and spin.
Based on how the decades long inability to develop their own dmen continued under Homer and the way they've handled young dmen, I wouldn't mind seeing a new face in the GM spot before Ghost, Hagg and Morin start getting NHL time.

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01-28-2014, 04:01 PM
  #84
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If this wasn't an Olympic year I doubt he would have played again.

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01-28-2014, 04:05 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
I like how we need a new gm to do something we have been doing for 2 years now.

I also love how "you guys" just assume this isn't what's being said behind closed doors.

no gm or owner is going to come out in the media and say "we blow so bad, might as well stop buying tix/merchandise." you are just going to get safe "I like this team, you never know" answers.

have none of "you" been in management/pr/politics? its all lies and spin.
I would normally agree with you but when was the last time this organization admitted defeat at the deadline or stepped back & looked towards the future? It's true actions speak louder than words but their actions usually tend to make it look like they practice what the preach.

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01-28-2014, 04:14 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Based on how the decades long inability to develop their own dmen continued under Homer and the way they've handled young dmen, I wouldn't mind seeing a new face in the GM spot before Ghost, Hagg and Morin start getting NHL time.
the nhl was a different league 10 years ago, 5 years ago, and more now with the new cba its different.

they don't have a track record, I believe that's more to do with lack of quality clay. they have basically failed on one realistic pick, marshall. everyone else (first and second round) has been serviceable, for other teams.

we can't use money to buy everything any more. not the case 2 years ago.

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01-28-2014, 04:20 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I would normally agree with you but when was the last time this organization admitted defeat at the deadline or stepped back & looked towards the future? It's true actions speak louder than words but their actions usually tend to make it look like they practice what the preach.
dealing carter and richards? they are not going to publicly admit jack.

we will see, in two weeks if anyone goes...what they do. unlike sjs last year, we can't really save face by trading vets and saying we are still confident because of young guys filling roles, because we have none.

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01-28-2014, 04:34 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
the nhl was a different league 10 years ago, 5 years ago, and more now with the new cba its different.

they don't have a track record, I believe that's more to do with lack of quality clay. they have basically failed on one realistic pick, marshall. everyone else (first and second round) has been serviceable, for other teams.

we can't use money to buy everything any more. not the case 2 years ago.

Yeah I actually went through this not too long ago. The Flyers lack of high picks used on d-men in the past 10+ years is pretty staggering. The percentage of Flyers d-men developing into NHL players in that time is on par with the NHL averages (about, maybe slightly below but not much), using Appleyards numbers from a while back.

The Flyers biggest problems were the trading of picks and young players for vets to make late pushes and not using the higher round picks on d prospects. Both of these have been corrected over the past three years. This team needs patience and IMO they're on track in that regard.

The team was set on course for a relatively quick rebuild three years ago, which coincides with the above. I think the over achievement that was 11-12 threw some fans for a loop, but like it or not the team is very much still in a rebuild. Now if in the meanwhile management can make the team better and potentially make the PO via FA signings, being as though they don't cost the team the future, why not go for it? The PO experience is pretty valuable, especially for the younger/inexperienced players. Now I completely understand that some signings could potentially hamper the development of the young guys but I think the organization's mentality is that it's better to develop players in a competitive environment then not, one that doesn't just except losing because they are in a rebuild.

That's just the way I look at it.

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01-28-2014, 04:51 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Yeah I actually went through this not too long ago. The Flyers lack of high picks used on d-men in the past 10+ years is pretty staggering. The percentage of Flyers d-men developing into NHL players in that time is on par with the NHL averages (about, maybe slightly below but not much), using Appleyards numbers from a while back.

The Flyers biggest problems were the trading of picks and young players for vets to make late pushes and not using the higher round picks on d prospects. Both of these have been corrected over the past three years. This team needs patience and IMO they're on track in that regard.

The team was set on course for a relatively quick rebuild three years ago, which coincides with the above. I think the over achievement that was 11-12 threw some fans for a loop, but like it or not the team is very much still in a rebuild. Now if in the meanwhile management can make the team better and potentially make the PO via FA signings, being as though they don't cost the team the future, why not go for it? The PO experience is pretty valuable, especially for the younger/inexperienced players. Now I completely understand that some signings could potentially hamper the development of the young guys but I think the organization's mentality is that it's better to develop players in a competitive environment then not, one that doesn't just except losing because they are in a rebuild.

That's just the way I look at it.
of available factual information, there are not that many other conclusions than this. imo.

just keep saying, 2008-2010 was fun.

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Old
01-29-2014, 01:44 PM
  #90
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I'll take Sbisa back from Anaheim for Timonen even though I know lots of people are down on him including Anaheim fans. Granted dude has been injured this whole season but I still like his upside as a PMD...

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01-29-2014, 01:53 PM
  #91
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I'll take Sbisa back from Anaheim for Timonen even though I know lots of people are down on him including Anaheim fans. Granted dude has been injured this whole season but I still like his upside as a PMD...
Anaheim has some young puck movers, I wonder if they would be interested in grossmann as the main piece for sbisa. Grossmann might benefit from the western conference. I may be way off here on the value of sbisa

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01-29-2014, 01:55 PM
  #92
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Anaheim has some young puck movers, I wonder if they would be interested in grossmann as the main piece for sbisa. Grossmann might benefit from the western conference. I may be way off here on the value of sbisa
Yeah they have some good young PMD's ..Sbisa is just one of them. For me I think it's a nostalgia thing with Sbisa..I just liked when he was here but alas..I realize we can't develop D men.

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01-29-2014, 01:59 PM
  #93
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That Grossmann for Sbisa isn't too bad of a proposal. Maybe add a 3rd rounder from our end, especially if it is early in the third round. He would look good on our second pairing with Coburn. Would be hard to pair him with Streit I would imagine.

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01-29-2014, 02:04 PM
  #94
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Really don't want Sbisa back... he has seemingly regressed each year, and even then he was not that good to begin with.

Would love to try and nab Vatanen, he is not on their roster atm and is an upcoming rfa, and they keep demoting him, he would cost more than Sbisa, but he may actually be a top 4 dman, something I doubt Sbisa will ever be.

11-12 was Sbisas best season by a mile... and he paced for 25 points... while facing the easiest minutes of any Anaheim D man.

He is sheltered as **** and still gets grief and puts up minimal points. He has had the easiest minutes of regular Anaheim D men every year apart from last (2nd easiest)... yet has never been better than 5th amongst their regular defencemen in Corsi. His zone starts also indicate the play usually moves backwards when he is on ice.

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01-29-2014, 02:36 PM
  #95
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Hypothetical here, but what if Ray Shero from the Pens called and wanted Timonen and was willing to offer up Despres for him. Would you make the deal?

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01-29-2014, 02:39 PM
  #96
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Hypothetical here, but what if Ray Shero from the Pens called and wanted Timonen and was willing to offer up Despres for him. Would you make the deal?
I am not high on Despres, and would honestly look elsewhere. Also, never help a hated rival try to win a cup..

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01-29-2014, 02:50 PM
  #97
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I am not high on Despres, and would honestly look elsewhere. Also, never help a hated rival try to win a cup..
Yup, plus Pittsburgh's defense has been good this year. They give up the fifth least amount of shots at 28 shots a game & are eighth in goals against with an average of 2.42 per game.

I would imagine they'll be looking for wingers again at the deadline & possibly a veteran backup goalie.

I hope they trade their first rounder again, they desperately need forward prospects in their system.

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01-29-2014, 02:58 PM
  #98
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Hypothetical here, but what if Ray Shero from the Pens called and wanted Timonen and was willing to offer up Despres for him. Would you make the deal?
I'd make any deal with anyone to improve long term. Despres would not be my first target though.

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02-06-2014, 05:05 AM
  #99
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There was an interview with Timonen on the website of Finnish MTV News. Here's a fast translation.

Quote:
The Philadelphia Flyers’ Kimmo Timonen will wait until the summer before deciding on the future of his career.

38-year-old star defenseman Kimmo Timonen could continue his career next season. But the decision will be made during the summer in his hometown Savo.
-The thought of going into this season was to see how my body will hold up. I also wanted to see how much motivation I’ve got and how well I can keep up with the rest of the team, Timonen says.

The start of the season was difficult for the Flyers. Now the team is fighting for the playoff spot in the Eastern Conference.
-The start of the season was very difficult for all of us. The last 30 games have been pretty good. Right now I feel like I could perhaps play for another season. But the final decision will be made during the summer.

-I can still keep up with the boys, so in that sense there’s no rush for me to call it quits, Timonen jokes.
MTV - Timonen uran jatkosta: Vielä tässä poikien mukana pysyy

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02-06-2014, 07:14 AM
  #100
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It is very true in his regard... he can still play very well at the NHL level.

the best case scenario short term I imagine would him be coming back with a paycut to ~3-4 million and play a more limited role (PP time cut and only high mins when needed). If he plays as a #3 he is a fantastic player for such a role.

Boyle/Girardi/MacDonald-Timonen
Streit-Coburn
Schenn-Gustafsson

not in that exact composition... but that kind of personal is a defensive upgrade. (replacing a #5 with a #2/3 means the rest of the D can play more suitable roles.)

would not only be far easier to do than get two new D men, but is probably a more flexible short term solution.


Last edited by Appleyard: 02-06-2014 at 07:26 AM.
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