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[EDM/STL] David Perron for Magnus Paajarvi + 2nd '14 | Part 2

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01-28-2014, 01:38 PM
  #751
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Understood. But again Perron was a known goal scorer traded by a team that actually exited the playoffs due to difficulty scoring goals.

A team with perennial goal scoring difficulty traded a guy likely to be a pretty good goal scorer.

Its nice that they have an abundance of riches but they traded a lot of potential in giving up Perron and they got nothing for him.

MPS is a lesser version of Gilbert Brule. This is what they got.

Would've made more sense for STL to demand our first pick for 2014. We probably would've done it to get Perron. Especially with the Oil thinking they would compete more this year and have a middle pick.

Doesn't matter how good STL is this was awful horse trading.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that the Oilers "won" the trade.

I just don't think that STL management is looking back on the trade and shaking their fists at us. A rare win/win hockey trade.

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01-28-2014, 01:45 PM
  #752
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Don't get me wrong, I agree that the Oilers "won" the trade.

I just don't think that STL management is looking back on the trade and shaking their fists at us. A rare win/win hockey trade.
Well, but,

Except that as a trade it is win/nothing. We won, Blues gained next to nothing.

If Blues felt their lineup and payroll was too stacked then trade for a draft asset future rather than a guy that looks like a bust.

lets not discount either that there was a little arrogance involved here. I imagine the Blues figured they'd transform Paajarvi to a much more rounded player than he's been.

Not even on a good team with every support available is Paajarvi looking like a good player. Still running around like a scared rabbit.

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01-28-2014, 01:45 PM
  #753
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Why the hell would we be that concerned about giving up a 31-35th overall pick when it was probably going to be around the 40ish mark at best in the summer? It's not like we traded a conditional pick that has gone from being a 2nd to a 1st.

Perron was our most consistent player up until x-mas time or so, he's been a lot better than expected and at this point I could careless how Prv is doing in STL. He could be on their top line and I wouldn't care as Perron brings an element this team hasn't had in a long long time.

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01-28-2014, 01:49 PM
  #754
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Well, but,

Except that as a trade it is win/nothing.

If Blues felt their lineup and payroll was too stacked then trade for a draft asset future rather than a guy that looks like a bust.

lets not discount either that there was a little arrogance involved here. I imagine the Blues figured they'd transform Paajarvi to a much more rounded player than he's been.

Not even on a good team with every support available is Paajarvi looking like a good player. Still running around like a scared rabbit.
I bet that is bs but who knows. This deal will not be judged by this year's performance by PRV and even though your opinion is quite clear as always I think you actually know this (and probably think it doesn't matter).

edit. Wait, do you really think that the Blues took PRV because of some kind of arrogance? Or was this a joke? (honest question)

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01-28-2014, 01:56 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Well, but,

Except that as a trade it is win/nothing. We won, Blues gained next to nothing.

If Blues felt their lineup and payroll was too stacked then trade for a draft asset future rather than a guy that looks like a bust.

lets not discount either that there was a little arrogance involved here. I imagine the Blues figured they'd transform Paajarvi to a much more rounded player than he's been.

Not even on a good team with every support available is Paajarvi looking like a good player. Still running around like a scared rabbit.
They traded for a 21-22 year old guy who can skate well and is having a few problems. They acquired a very very high 2nd rounder. If you can skate in this league you have a shot to play for a while. How quickly people forget about one andrew cogliano.

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01-28-2014, 02:15 PM
  #756
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Cogliano from the very beginning of his career has been better than PRV, but yeah.

I don't think Perron had a great couple of years in the playoffs, and I'm not sure he was suited for Hitchcock's system. They probably look at guys like Schwartz and Tarasenko and think he can be replaced, at least eventually.

Obviously the cap money was the main reason, and they weren't going to move a d-man or someone like Berglund or Backes.

Really a pretty decent hockey trade IMHO.

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01-28-2014, 02:45 PM
  #757
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I was the biggest Maggs fan on this board-- but something went wrong. Oilers needed help ASAP and Perron has done it

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01-28-2014, 02:48 PM
  #758
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Yeah, let's be fair to the Blues, Perron was essentially a cap casualty.

On paper, Paajarvi should be a perfect fit for a Hitchcock system, but he's simply not putting it together. And while everyone predicted that Perron would increase his numbers, I don't think that anyone called him setting a new career high in goals less than 3/4 of the way through the season.

Don't get me wrong, we absolutely won the Perron trade, but at the time, it really looked like a trade that would help both teams.
I always got the impression that Perron didn't want to be there. The way Andy "i hate Edmonton" Strickland talked about Perron to Edmonton and how well Perron would fit in here just gave me that vibe.

As for Prv. On paper he was a guy that was rushed into the NHL and then split two seasons between the AHL and NHL. He has the skillset to fit into Hitch's system, he just needs some maturing to happen.

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01-28-2014, 02:51 PM
  #759
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I think Pajaarvi has potential, key word potential, to be one of the best shutdown wingers in the league. Especially while learning in STL. I don't see him ever becoming a scorer. Doesn't have the hockey sense or the finish. Maybe a 20-30 point guy who flirts with 40 points in overachieving years. Will be capable of spot duty in the top 6 in time of injuries. He's going to be a useful player in the league by virtue of size and skating ability alone.

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01-28-2014, 02:52 PM
  #760
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Hard to imagine how much worse we'd be this season if we had PRV instead of Perron. The Perron and Hendricks pick ups have made me a believer in MacT.

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01-28-2014, 03:23 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
They traded for a 21-22 year old guy who can skate well and is having a few problems. They acquired a very very high 2nd rounder. If you can skate in this league you have a shot to play for a while. How quickly people forget about one andrew cogliano.
How quickly people forget one Ralph Intranuovo.....

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01-28-2014, 03:26 PM
  #762
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I bet that is bs but who knows. This deal will not be judged by this year's performance by PRV and even though your opinion is quite clear as always I think you actually know this (and probably think it doesn't matter).

edit. Wait, do you really think that the Blues took PRV because of some kind of arrogance? Or was this a joke? (honest question)
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They traded for a 21-22 year old guy who can skate well and is having a few problems. They acquired a very very high 2nd rounder. If you can skate in this league you have a shot to play for a while. How quickly people forget about one andrew cogliano.
MPS has shown himself to be afraid of the NHL game. This being the virtual bane for many players who couldn't make the transition to the physical NHL game.

I really don't think he overcomes that. Its a monumental problem.

I initially liked the player. Until I recognized the fear. Which precludes him having much success in this league.

So yes I think the Blues were arrogant, if not delusional in figuring they were going to break something as basic as ingrained fear.

This is an extremely timid player. Good luck with him.

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01-28-2014, 03:31 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
They traded for a 21-22 year old guy who can skate well and is having a few problems. They acquired a very very high 2nd rounder. If you can skate in this league you have a shot to play for a while. How quickly people forget about one andrew cogliano.
I honestly think it's more the Ducks have done a fantastic job with his development.

I watched a Ducks game and he looks nothing like the guy we saw here. He's grittier and uses the body more, he's creating more offense, I even saw him win puck battles. They are using him more as a W, so keep that in mind too.

This franchise has never understood how to develop and nurture talent. We just throw them into the water and tell them to swim. Deep end too.

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01-28-2014, 03:36 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
They traded for a 21-22 year old guy who can skate well and is having a few problems. They acquired a very very high 2nd rounder. If you can skate in this league you have a shot to play for a while. How quickly people forget about one andrew cogliano.
I don't recall Andrew ever being shy going to the net. Even in his rookie year.

Cogs was a player from the start, just wasn't going to be here longterm.

MPS is big and tall but somehow plays a much smaller game despite every physical advantage.

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01-28-2014, 04:03 PM
  #765
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I honestly think it's more the Ducks have done a fantastic job with his development.

I watched a Ducks game and he looks nothing like the guy we saw here. He's grittier and uses the body more, he's creating more offense, I even saw him win puck battles. They are using him more as a W, so keep that in mind too.

This franchise has never understood how to develop and nurture talent. We just throw them into the water and tell them to swim. Deep end too.
That and he has a team that plays big to play with and his matured into a man.

I really don't think Cogliano would be that much worse if he was here today. We'd be complaining that he sucks, but I doubt it would be a major difference overall.

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01-28-2014, 05:15 PM
  #766
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Cogs would be sharing whipping boy responsibilities with Gagner if he was still here. Not a fit here. Good to see he's doing well in Anaheim though.

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01-28-2014, 09:58 PM
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How quickly people forget one Ralph Intranuovo.....
Steve Kelly says hi as well.

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01-28-2014, 10:07 PM
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How quickly people forget one Ralph Intranuovo.....
The Iceman

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01-28-2014, 10:42 PM
  #769
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PRV tops out as Ethan Moreau? Bleah.

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01-28-2014, 10:57 PM
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I would love to see go full circle... we trade the Blues Smyth at 50% so they have another battle tested vet for playoffs... in return we take back MPS on his suddenly inconvenient contract... Paajarvi turns into useful third liner and Blues get a lone 2nd for their troubles...

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01-28-2014, 11:12 PM
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22 goals Vs. 4 goals, yeah we got hosed in the trade.....
As far as the trade goes, its obviously a win for the Oilers. Don't even think we need to have that discussion. The Leafs fan should have just been ignored and he would have gone away to troll somewhere else.

Still, I'm a bit surprised to see you dog-piling MPS. As you know I was no big fan of this player and said three years ago that he wouldn't stick in this league. BUT ... I have to say that I'm impressed he has managed to hold onto his spot on the Blues roster. This is a far greater achievement than I thought him capable of.

Let's remember that the Blues aren't the Oilers. They don't just waste roster spots and hand players minutes willy nilly because, unlike the Oilers they actually try to win every season. They have a development team in the AHL that has produced some pretty impressive players over the last half dozen seasons while the Oilers have produced none.

Its not totally impossible that the Blues find a player in there after all. I'm not totally up to speed on the Blues depth chart, but surely they wouldn't be giving MPS thirty two games for no reason. The real tell will be whether he sees the ice in the playoffs.

MPS has a minus six on a team where most forwards are double digit plus. And he only has forty shots on goal (safe to assume half of those are his patented hopeful wrister from the wall). Looking at his stats alone, there's no reason for a good club like the Blues to keep him on the big team. Yet he played nine minutes tonight and managed an assist. Somebody on the Blues must see something in this player.

Oilers win the trade for sure - imagine what we could get for Perron if we traded him tomorrow. But I'm not nearly as confident in saying that MPS will be back in Europe in two years as I was when he was Oiler property.

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01-28-2014, 11:40 PM
  #772
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I don't recall Andrew ever being shy going to the net. Even in his rookie year.

Cogs was a player from the start, just wasn't going to be here longterm.


MPS is big and tall but somehow plays a much smaller game despite every physical advantage.
You say that now, but I seem to recall you really having a major hate on for Cogliano. Actually one quite similar to the one you had for Paajarvi the last couple of years.

It's easy to say Cogliano was always a player now when it looks like he's found a niche in the league on a really good team. There was stretches as an Oiler where he looked like he would never figure it out and you were maybe literally the first to start pointing it out.

Cogliano actually had the worst offensive season of his career the year after being traded to Edmonton. He's bounced back very nicely and is having a fantastic year this year. Paajarvi can bounce back too.

Not to say that this was a good trade for the Blues. They gave up far and away the better player and right now Paajarvi isn't showing much. But he might in the future, and you never know with the 2nd rounder.

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01-29-2014, 01:27 AM
  #773
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As far as the trade goes, its obviously a win for the Oilers. Don't even think we need to have that discussion. The Leafs fan should have just been ignored and he would have gone away to troll somewhere else.

Still, I'm a bit surprised to see you dog-piling MPS. As you know I was no big fan of this player and said three years ago that he wouldn't stick in this league. BUT ... I have to say that I'm impressed he has managed to hold onto his spot on the Blues roster. This is a far greater achievement than I thought him capable of.

Let's remember that the Blues aren't the Oilers. They don't just waste roster spots and hand players minutes willy nilly because, unlike the Oilers they actually try to win every season. They have a development team in the AHL that has produced some pretty impressive players over the last half dozen seasons while the Oilers have produced none.

Its not totally impossible that the Blues find a player in there after all. I'm not totally up to speed on the Blues depth chart, but surely they wouldn't be giving MPS thirty two games for no reason. The real tell will be whether he sees the ice in the playoffs.

MPS has a minus six on a team where most forwards are double digit plus. And he only has forty shots on goal (safe to assume half of those are his patented hopeful wrister from the wall). Looking at his stats alone, there's no reason for a good club like the Blues to keep him on the big team. Yet he played nine minutes tonight and managed an assist. Somebody on the Blues must see something in this player.

Oilers win the trade for sure - imagine what we could get for Perron if we traded him tomorrow. But I'm not nearly as confident in saying that MPS will be back in Europe in two years as I was when he was Oiler property.
I'm not dog piling, it is what it is, Perron is an impact player for us and Paajarvi is too soft to be a complimentary player here. It was top 6 or bust with him here and Perron adds more grit and skill than Paajarvi. On a big and tough team Paajarvi could be a good 2nd or 3rd line LW, but like Gagner IMO a better fit for him would be on a team not named the Oilers.

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01-29-2014, 01:45 AM
  #774
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Not sure how this trade can be debated. Absolute steal.
Magnus may develop into a solid two-way winger, but from what I saw he was solid until he crossed the offensive blueline then just seemed lost...not Smid lost...but uncertain about whether to pass or dump or shoot.

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01-29-2014, 07:55 AM
  #775
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You say that now, but I seem to recall you really having a major hate on for Cogliano. Actually one quite similar to the one you had for Paajarvi the last couple of years.

It's easy to say Cogliano was always a player now when it looks like he's found a niche in the league on a really good team. There was stretches as an Oiler where he looked like he would never figure it out and you were maybe literally the first to start pointing it out.

Cogliano actually had the worst offensive season of his career the year after being traded to Edmonton. He's bounced back very nicely and is having a fantastic year this year. Paajarvi can bounce back too.

Not to say that this was a good trade for the Blues. They gave up far and away the better player and right now Paajarvi isn't showing much. But he might in the future, and you never know with the 2nd rounder.
Cogs problems were awful hands that looked at times like they might never score another goal, and diminutive size which prevented him from being too effective in critical areas. I would never question his heart or perseverence to play at this level. Any player his size that has crafted an NHL career is worthy of credit. Clearly, on a much better club Cogs can have a role and make a contribution. He was never going to be a go to player which is kind of what the club needed from him at times here. We needed some production here and that pressure was felt. There is no production pressure in Anaheim, just fill out a role.

In anycase, as mentioned, Paajarvi reminds me much more of Brule than Cogliano in that Paajarvi's lack of success stems from his mixed conviction in playing an NHL game. Neither, I fear, has the spirit for physical play.

In NHL terms the diagnosis, to that condition, is that the player "came up lame".

Paajarvi is gifted with size, height, frame, speed and parlays this to essentially nothing at the NHL level. In recent years I watched a shadow of what he could be feigning rushes up ice while all the while for some reason losing races to loose pucks, not converging on puck battles, and basically avoiding hits and physical play. Half a dozen times a game I watched this player pull up lame on 50/50 dumps when he had a clear bead on a loose puck. Somehow his speed rarely getting there on time.

Can't believe other people don't spot this. Paajarvi made a habit of avoiding contact here. Diagnosis is fear.


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