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Trade Rumours Thread XIV: Rangers gauging interest on Callahan/Girardi

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Old
01-29-2014, 07:36 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Why do you believe Girardi is worth 6 million a year? Serious question.
I think he's a capable #2/#3 defenseman for us now and can continue to perform in that role for at least another three or four years, at least. If the last year or two of his deal he begins to decline, $6M shouldn't hurt too bad barring some unforeseen collapse in the salary cap. I don't see Girardi's game falling off a cliff any time soon.

Also, there's something to be said for continuity. Too much roster turnover is problematic. We have a lot of guys potentially coming off the books, and I think it's important to keep key contributors if the cost is reasonable.

Girardi plays about 23 good minutes for us per night. We have to replace that if he walks or is traded. Do we have an in-house replacement? McIlrath may be ready next year, but not to assume Girardi's role. Stralman could leave. Klein is the only other right-handed defenseman. What will we find on the open market that is cheaper than Girardi but comparable to his skill? Will the cost savings of that player be worth the loss of continuity?

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01-29-2014, 07:38 AM
  #102
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Trade cally.

Offer dan 5.5 @ 6

I think we can live without cally and his return will be an impact type player and potentially a 1st round pick.

No brainer

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01-29-2014, 07:40 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Signing Girardi simply because there's no immediate replacement is not great justification. By that logic, we shouldn't buyout Richards because we have no immediate PP QB replacement.

By that logic, you'd throw a blank cheque at him just to keep the same mediocre team together.
The two are not remotely similar. Richards WILL be bought out and find a C that can score 40 pts in 60 games isn't nearly as difficult as finding a RHD that can log 25+ minutes per game. Look at the UFA list of who's available and get back to me.

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Our D core gets slightly worse immediately, but I highly doubt it costs us a playoff spot. Especially because he's been our second worst defenseman this month, not including Klein.

And who says we can't get a future replacement in a trade? I think Girardi for Barrie + 1st would be a good deal, bump up Stralman and Klein while Barrie develops.

Girardi hasn't played over 24 minutes in close to a month. AV doesn't like giving his top pair insanely high minutes. He likes to roll all three pairs. Similar to Callahan, if Girardi isn't playing 26+ minutes a game, his value goes down.
So... your solution to the problem is to create a fantasy trade that the Avs are likely not to make?

That about sums it up.

Stralman, Klein, & ________ looks a lot, A LOT, worse than Girardi, Stralman, & Klein.

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01-29-2014, 07:43 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I think he's a capable #2/#3 defenseman for us now and can continue to perform in that role for at least another three or four years, at least. If the last year or two of his deal he begins to decline, $6M shouldn't hurt too bad barring some unforeseen collapse in the salary cap. I don't see Girardi's game falling off a cliff any time soon.

Also, there's something to be said for continuity. Too much roster turnover is problematic. We have a lot of guys potentially coming off the books, and I think it's important to keep key contributors if the cost is reasonable.

Girardi plays about 23 good minutes for us per night. We have to replace that if he walks. Do we have an in-house replacement? McIlrath may be ready next year, but not to assume Girardi's role. Klein is the only other right-handed defenseman. What will we find on the open market that is cheaper than Girardi but comparable to his skill? Will the cost savings of that player be worth the loss of continuity?
I'd agree with the bolded if this team was close to being a contender. They aren't. If we keep the same mediocre team together, with pay raises, the roster doesn't get any better and we have the same problems.

Girardi doesn't have even close to the skill to warrant 6 million for a defenseman. Watching him with the puck is painful. He's excellent positionally, and blocks shots. That's really it. I can't possibly see a justification to giving him 6 million when he has zero puck skill.

Staal-Stralman have been our best defensemen this month, easily. And they play around 20 minutes a game. If they could take on a few extra minutes, the blow of losing Girardi is very softened. And I've already said it, but who says his future replacement can't come back in a trade?

We don't exactly need a defender of Girardi's caliber on McDonagh's pairing. And we still have a lot of roster holes. If by the trade deadline, all our defensemen keep up their good play, Girardi should be traded to fill another hole, notably pmd.

I also don't buy the argument that since he hasn't been injured, he'll continue to be that way. He's getting older, and he's played worse every year for three straight years. Now, he hasn't been that much worse, but the decline is happening, and it's noticeable.

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01-29-2014, 07:48 AM
  #105
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What if they feel McI can step it for Girardi?

That case, I can see them trading both Cally and Dan G.

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01-29-2014, 07:50 AM
  #106
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I'd agree with the bolded if this team was close to being a contender. They aren't. If we keep the same mediocre team together, with pay raises, the roster doesn't get any better and we have the same problems.

Girardi doesn't have even close to the skill to warrant 6 million for a defenseman. Watching him with the puck is painful. He's excellent positionally, and blocks shots. That's really it. I can't possibly see a justification to giving him 6 million when he has zero puck skill.

Staal-Stralman have been our best defensemen this month, easily. And they play around 20 minutes a game. If they could take on a few extra minutes, the blow of losing Girardi is very softened. And I've already said it, but who says his future replacement can't come back in a trade?

We don't exactly need a defender of Girardi's caliber on McDonagh's pairing. And we still have a lot of roster holes. If by the trade deadline, all our defensemen keep up their good play, Girardi should be traded to fill another hole, notably pmd.

I also don't buy the argument that since he hasn't been injured, he'll continue to be that way. He's getting older, and he's played worse every year for three straight years. Now, he hasn't been that much worse, but the decline is happening, and it's noticeable.
I don't think replacing Girardi with some random UFA of lesser talent, or a prospect and a pick, will get us any closer to being a contender in the next few years.

If the decline in Girardi's game has been so noticeable, and he's not worth close to $6M (which is probably the going rate for a #2/#3 on the open market), then what do you think we'll get for him in a trade? The player you're describing Girardi to be sounds like a bottom-pairing defenseman. Who's going to give us valuable assets for a bottom-pairing defender about to his UFA status? What good PMD are we getting for the mediocre player you're describing? If he's worth valuable assets, it's because he's a good player that can be counted on to play big minutes for a good team. You can't sit there and say Girardi is a mediocre defenseman in decline and at the same time think he'll return anything worthwhile.

Yes, he is getting older. But he's still only 29. He's not 32 or 33. He still has good years of hockey ahead of him. I guess the fundamental disagreement between us is that I think Girardi is quite a bit better than you do. I also think we stand a better chance of contending in the next five years with Girardi than whatever we'd receive in return for him (especially if he's viewed by the rest of the league as he is by you, which wouldn't net us a whole lot in return).

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01-29-2014, 07:53 AM
  #107
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I would like to keep stralman and girardi both.

If I was forced to choose I still go with stralman over girardi. Less expensive shorter contract and a better overall player IMO.

Trade cally.

Look to resign girardi but move him if he wants over 5.5/6

Add mcilrath as the 6th.

Staal stral
Mcd kleiner
Moore mcilrath

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01-29-2014, 07:54 AM
  #108
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The two are not remotely similar. Richards WILL be bought out and find a C that can score 40 pts in 60 games isn't nearly as difficult as finding a RHD that can log 25+ minutes per game. Look at the UFA list of who's available and get back to me.

So... your solution to the problem is to create a fantasy trade that the Avs are likely not to make?

That about sums it up.

Stralman, Klein, & ________ looks a lot, A LOT, worse than Girardi, Stralman, & Klein.
You're missing the big picture, Girardi is going to get overpaid for what little he brings. He can log minutes yeah, but he doesn't provide any offense, and needs his ass dragged around the ice by a good partner to be effective. That's worth maybe 5 million.

I'd resign him if the numbers were good. For what he's seeking, they aren't.

You can't just throw a blank cheque at players because you don't happen to have an immediate replacement.

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01-29-2014, 07:54 AM
  #109
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I think Girardi will have a major role in mentoring McI next year and going forward.

I would take Girardi back at 6 years $6 million. Right side of the D will be set for years with Girardi, McI and Klein.

I think Callahan will net a solid return from a western conference team. Those saying they would take a deal like Stewart and a 3rd are out of their minds.

I can see a deal like Runblad, Samuelsson and a conditional 1st or 2nd if he resigns.

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01-29-2014, 08:04 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Hypothetical: we trade Girardi tomorrow for a prospect or two and a 1st round draft pick. Who are our top 3 D? Who's going to play first pair and 25:00+ per game with McD?

Whoever it is it's going to be a stopgap measure AND it's going to cost us a playoff berth.

Skip to July - which guy (R D) are you signing to replace Girardi as a UFA? Because, whoever it is, he won't be as good as Girardi was.

That's why you sign Girardi.
Not a good way to think. This way of thinking gets organizations in long term binds with bad contracts. You have to look at every year of the contract and way the pro's/cons

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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I think he's a capable #2/#3 defenseman for us now and can continue to perform in that role for at least another three or four years, at least. If the last year or two of his deal he begins to decline, $6M shouldn't hurt too bad barring some unforeseen collapse in the salary cap. I don't see Girardi's game falling off a cliff any time soon.

Also, there's something to be said for continuity. Too much roster turnover is problematic. We have a lot of guys potentially coming off the books, and I think it's important to keep key contributors if the cost is reasonable.

Girardi plays about 23 good minutes for us per night. We have to replace that if he walks or is traded. Do we have an in-house replacement? McIlrath may be ready next year, but not to assume Girardi's role. Stralman could leave. Klein is the only other right-handed defenseman. What will we find on the open market that is cheaper than Girardi but comparable to his skill? Will the cost savings of that player be worth the loss of continuity?
I think Girardi will be fine for a few years. I worry about giving a d-man who is a just above average skater a long term deal at 30 though. Normally, the players who age gracefully in the NHL are great skaters.

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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
Trade cally.

Offer dan 5.5 @ 6

I think we can live without cally and his return will be an impact type player and potentially a 1st round pick.

No brainer
I think I would be good with this.

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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
The two are not remotely similar. Richards WILL be bought out and find a C that can score 40 pts in 60 games isn't nearly as difficult as finding a RHD that can log 25+ minutes per game. Look at the UFA list of who's available and get back to me.



So... your solution to the problem is to create a fantasy trade that the Avs are likely not to make?

That about sums it up.

Stralman, Klein, & ________ looks a lot, A LOT, worse than Girardi, Stralman, & Klein.
Again, what happens if in 5 years when Girardi is a borderline top-4 d-man?

Stralman and Klein are legit top-4 d-men. Neither are top pairing but the Rangers are lucky enough to have (2) top-pairing LD's in McDonagh and Staal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
I would like to keep stralman and girardi both.

If I was forced to choose I still go with stralman over girardi. Less expensive shorter contract and a better overall player IMO.

Trade cally.

Look to resign girardi but move him if he wants over 5.5/6

Add mcilrath as the 6th.

Staal stral
Mcd kleiner
Moore mcilrath
I think thy should sign one of them. Stralman or Girardi. Prioritize, move the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
I think Girardi will have a major role in mentoring McI next year and going forward.

I would take Girardi back at 6 years $6 million. Right side of the D will be set for years with Girardi, McI and Klein.

I think Callahan will net a solid return from a western conference team. Those saying they would take a deal like Stewart and a 3rd are out of their minds.

I can see a deal like Runblad, Samuelsson and a conditional 1st or 2nd if he resigns.

6 million is too much unless he backs down to 5 years, IMO.

I wouldn't want Rundblad, not overly interested. Samuelsson + 1st +






The people asking for NHL players are silly. Practically no rental has returned players like Hanzel or Yandle. Not happening.

If the Rangers don't see Callahan moving on his dollar figure, wouldn't it make more sense to try and build up a bidding war BEFORE the Olympics in case he gets injured?

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01-29-2014, 08:09 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I think he's a capable #2/#3 defenseman for us now and can continue to perform in that role for at least another three or four years, at least. If the last year or two of his deal he begins to decline, $6M shouldn't hurt too bad barring some unforeseen collapse in the salary cap. I don't see Girardi's game falling off a cliff any time soon.

Also, there's something to be said for continuity. Too much roster turnover is problematic. We have a lot of guys potentially coming off the books, and I think it's important to keep key contributors if the cost is reasonable.

Girardi plays about 23 good minutes for us per night. We have to replace that if he walks or is traded. Do we have an in-house replacement? McIlrath may be ready next year, but not to assume Girardi's role. Stralman could leave. Klein is the only other right-handed defenseman. What will we find on the open market that is cheaper than Girardi but comparable to his skill? Will the cost savings of that player be worth the loss of continuity?
Awesome post. I hope the Rangers keep Stralman too. The pairings as they stand are finally tremendous 1-6.

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01-29-2014, 08:11 AM
  #112
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It's a shame the Ducks probably wouldn't have interest in Cally with the season Cogliano is having.

Vatanen and Kerdilles would be good targets.

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01-29-2014, 08:11 AM
  #113
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People should get used to the idea of neither being on this team going forward... Especially if those #s are accurate.

That being said, this is just another step in negotiations. Sather does this all the time. He uses the media in an attempt to pressure the player and his agent.

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01-29-2014, 08:16 AM
  #114
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What if they feel McI can step it for Girardi?

That case, I can see them trading both Cally and Dan G.
They'd be idiots if thats the assumptions.

McIlrath is having trouble just taking an NHL shift. Hes not going to be a 1st pairing shutdown guy anytime soon, if ever.

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01-29-2014, 08:23 AM
  #115
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They'd be idiots if thats the assumptions.

McIlrath is having trouble just taking an NHL shift. Hes not going to be a 1st pairing shutdown guy anytime soon, if ever.
Agreed. However if they move Girardi, they could slot Stralman and Klein up a pairing or move Klein with McDonagh and leave the Staal-Stralman pairing together to allow for Allen or McIlrath time in the NHL this season. That's an option.

No matter how you look at it, moving Callahan and Girardi will lead to a less competitive NHL team right now, but for the long term health of the organization, it's the right move to make.

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01-29-2014, 08:24 AM
  #116
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Yeah anyone with delusions of McIlrath being ready to step into a top four role come October is out to lunch. We may never see him do more than be a called up 6th/7th D for all we know at this point.

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01-29-2014, 08:24 AM
  #117
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I don't think replacing Girardi with some random UFA of lesser talent, or a prospect and a pick, will get us any closer to being a contender in the next few years.

If the decline in Girardi's game has been so noticeable, and he's not worth close to $6M (which is probably the going rate for a #2/#3 on the open market), then what do you think we'll get for him in a trade? The player you're describing Girardi to be sounds like a bottom-pairing defenseman. Who's going to give us valuable assets for a bottom-pairing defender about to his UFA status? What good PMD are we getting for the mediocre player you're describing? If he's worth valuable assets, it's because he's a good player that can be counted on to play big minutes for a good team. You can't sit there and say Girardi is a mediocre defenseman in decline and at the same time think he'll return anything worthwhile.

Yes, he is getting older. But he's still only 29. He's not 32 or 33. He still has good years of hockey ahead of him. I guess the fundamental disagreement between us is that I think Girardi is quite a bit better than you do. I also think we stand a better chance of contending in the next five years with Girardi than whatever we'd receive in return for him (especially if he's viewed by the rest of the league as he is by you, which wouldn't net us a whole lot in return).
Saying he's declining doesn't mean I make him out to be a bad player. He's not at the level he used to be, though.

I really don't believe he has the skillset to warrant that paycheck. That's not to say he's a bad player, but not one that deserves 6 million dollars.

He has absolutely no puck skill, which is imperative for a defenseman in AV's system. And, most importantly, he needs an elite partner. We've all seen what happens if he's not at the hip of McD or Staal, his effectiveness plummets. If you're going to be paid 6 million dollars, you better be effective in your own right. Girardi isn't. Simple as that. What happens if god forbid McD or Staal go down? His effectiveness plummets.

This essentially goes down to I believe he's not as effective as you do. And that's fine.

Again, if he's willing to sign at a team friendly discount like 5 million per, I take that. 6 million at 6 years? Not a chance.

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01-29-2014, 08:26 AM
  #118
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People still think that $6m is $8m. It's pretty funny, really.

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01-29-2014, 08:28 AM
  #119
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I am not at all worried about giving Callahan 6 million right now. When healthy, he is a consistent force on the ice. It's 3+ years down the road where I start to worry. He will get 7 years. That's a lot of question marks for an undersized physical player. It just is.

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01-29-2014, 08:28 AM
  #120
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I think both stay BUT if one doesn't it will be Callahan. I will cry but it will be Cally

They took forever to find a RD for DZ. As Sather mentioned they didn't have 3 RD when Sauer went down. Eminger stunk

So Girardi will get his money. 5 yr ideally but likely 6 at 5.5 is my hope

Cally would get a lot in return so if its the right deal and they get a solid young winger and a top pick I guess it must be done.

Stupid Clarkson deal screws things up. Clowe got money, UFAs get overpaid all the time

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01-29-2014, 08:28 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
You're missing the big picture, Girardi is going to get overpaid for what little he brings. He can log minutes yeah, but he doesn't provide any offense, and needs his ass dragged around the ice by a good partner to be effective. That's worth maybe 5 million.

I'd resign him if the numbers were good. For what he's seeking, they aren't.

You can't just throw a blank cheque at players because you don't happen to have an immediate replacement.
Well then we fundamentally disagree about what kind of player Girardi is then. And, if he's half as bad as you make him out to be then why would any team want him, much less give us a 1st and a top prospect for a rental? You're on both sides of the fence and it diminishes your argument.

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01-29-2014, 08:30 AM
  #122
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Well then we fundamentally disagree about what kind of player Girardi is then. And, if he's half as bad as you make him out to be then why would any team want him, much less give us a 1st and a top prospect for a rental? You're on both sides of the fence and it diminishes your argument.
For the umpteenth time, he's not a BAD player, I never said he's a bad player.

He's not effective enough to be making 6 million dollars.

I end it there.

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01-29-2014, 08:32 AM
  #123
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This is the way I see it. Although they are different players on the offensive side of the puck. Prust and Callahan are similar players in more ways than one. They are great defensive players with grit that wear their hearts on their sleeves. Both are incredible PKers and are regarded by fans and management as "impact" players.

Prust played two full seasons for us unlike Callahan who hasn't played one full season to date. Both succeeded in the "Torts system," but Callahan's body took a toll. We didn't sign Prust at $2.5M for 4 years. Is a broken Callahan worth $5-6M on a long-term deal if only for the two-way play that he provides when he's not injured? In my opinion, no. Players are an investment and Callahan's value is depreciating at an increasing rate.

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01-29-2014, 08:33 AM
  #124
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A question I'm wondering is if Cally gets traded, Richards gets bought out and there aren't many significant moves made, who wears the C next year?

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01-29-2014, 08:34 AM
  #125
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People still think that $6m is $8m. It's pretty funny, really.
It's been really interesting to me how teams seem to be basing everything on % of cap (and % of future cap) vs the traditional model of using comparable players/deals as a base.

It makes sense given the growth the NHL is projecting. It's the right way to do it. But it's interesting how the landscape is changing so quickly. And how different people perceive the financial picture differently. "6M is the new 5M" if the cap goes to 77M which it should after one season of Girardi/Callahan's new deals.

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