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Old
02-02-2007, 02:48 PM
  #101
Edge
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The problem is that it probably takes Montoya, Prucha + to get Horton...which is ok because I'd still pull the trigger (I love Horton and if I've got a chance at him I'm gonna pull out all the stops.) But Prucha's not moving to the third line in that senario. It's also unlikely that Florida would move Horton untill after the season, as it makes no sense to move him at the deadline when many of the teams that would be interested in his services (rebuilding, developming teams) will be sellers and not looking to aquire at this time.
I think alot of it comes down to what offers are out there and whether the Panthers want to get a pick for the upcoming draft.

I don't think getting Horton necessarily means trading Prucha. I think you could probably offer something along the lines of Montoya, a first, and Dubinsky for Horton or something comparible to that.

I also don't think that only rebuilding/developing teams will be interested in his services. What make Horton valuable is that his ability isn't all based on potential, but rather that as of right now he's already a second line player.


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also, does anyone know if there is any truth to the: "Florida desperate wants Montoya so they can market him to the hispanic/cuban populace of south florida" rumor? or is this simply conjecture from those of us on these boards?

I'm loath to move montoya, but for Horton I'd do it.
That's been a rumor for a while but I'm sure at best it's a "bonus" for Florida.

And I'm with you on not necessarily wanting to move Montoya, but this is one of those situations where you do.

Horton is one of those players who I accept having to give up assets to get.

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As for Boyes, do we really know what he's going to cost? He seems to be in the same position that Prucha is this year, but none of us ranger boards want to say that Prucha has lost signifigant trade value, so why should it be the same with Boyes?
Really depends on how Boston feels. We might be more inclined to move Prucha if we had better scoring on the second line, it all really comes down to a team's strength and weaknesses. If nothing else I view it as adding scoring depth and in this case young scoring depth. If the talent we get back is NHL-proven AND young, that makes it much easier for me to trade prospects.

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02-02-2007, 02:59 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Really depends on how Boston feels. We might be more inclined to move Prucha if we had better scoring on the second line, it all really comes down to a team's strength and weaknesses. If nothing else I view it as adding scoring depth and in this case young scoring depth. If the talent we get back is NHL-proven AND young, that makes it much easier for me to trade prospects.
Agree, but think that the physicality and energy Prucha plays with also endears him to the fans. Fans see Prucha, who stands under 6 feet tall throw his body around and the fans love him, additionally because a guy like Malik, although it's never been his game, over 6 1/2 feet tall go weeks without delivering a hard hit.

As for Horton, I am torn. He definitely has displayed talent at the NHL level and as a guy labeled as a power forward, he is supposed to get better, I am a little discouraged by the attitude comments made by your Florida friends. But as we recently discussed with Savard, I don't know whether the attitude issue is being overblown or a result of Martin's handling of his icetime...

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02-02-2007, 03:12 PM
  #103
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I think alot of it comes down to what offers are out there and whether the Panthers want to get a pick for the upcoming draft.

I don't think getting Horton necessarily means trading Prucha. I think you could probably offer something along the lines of Montoya, a first, and Dubinsky for Horton or something comparible to that.
I can't speak for florida, but I'd imagine that a team that has been awful for as long as they have would be interested in tangible assets rather than draft picks. Montoya and Prucha gives them a second line winger now and a Goaltender who is very close. If you swap Prucha for Dubi and 1st then your going to have to wait alot longer on those assets. If I was florida I'd preffer Prucha.

There's also the potential that moving prucha works out better for the rangers as well, if Dawes turns into a similar player (though this is pure speculation.)

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I also don't think that only rebuilding/developing teams will be interested in his services. What make Horton valuable is that his ability isn't all based on potential, but rather that as of right now he's already a second line player.
It's not that only rebuilding/developing teams will be interested in his services, I'm sure every team in the league would be interested in picking up Horton. But right now only half the league is really thinking about moving assets, the other half is in sell mold. If Florida waits untill the offseason then they double the group of potential buyers for Hornton.

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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Really depends on how Boston feels. We might be more inclined to move Prucha if we had better scoring on the second line, it all really comes down to a team's strength and weaknesses. If nothing else I view it as adding scoring depth and in this case young scoring depth. If the talent we get back is NHL-proven AND young, that makes it much easier for me to trade prospects.
I'm not against moving talent for Boyes, I've just not yet heard anything credible about what Boston might want. I think Boyes could be a good aquistion, but I'm not prepaired to move major pieces for him, though I am open to moving some quality.

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02-02-2007, 03:21 PM
  #104
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After watching his emotional fight last night, I may consider it

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02-02-2007, 03:31 PM
  #105
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After watching his emotional fight last night, I may consider it
His 26 G 43 A from last year do anything for ya?...

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02-02-2007, 03:32 PM
  #106
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How does a fight have anything at all to do with the guy being able to fit the bill as second line center? Man, you're easy. All a guy has to do is fight ONCE and you're sold. C'mon man...

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02-02-2007, 03:38 PM
  #107
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How does a fight have anything at all to do with the guy being able to fit the bill as second line center? Man, you're easy. All a guy has to do is fight ONCE and you're sold. C'mon man...
Shanny?

I'm pretty sure he's not saying, " Oh he fought well so I wan't him". It is more like "That fight put me over the fence on wanting him."

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02-02-2007, 04:48 PM
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Shanny?

I'm pretty sure he's not saying, " Oh he fought well so I wan't him". It is more like "That fight put me over the fence on wanting him."
No, he's talking about brad Boyes who had a fight with notorious pugilist Tony Lydman last night in the Bos/Buf game. What does Shanahan have to do with that?

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02-02-2007, 06:48 PM
  #109
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No, he's talking about brad Boyes who had a fight with notorious pugilist Tony Lydman last night in the Bos/Buf game. What does Shanahan have to do with that?
My point was Shanny did the same thing. Terrible comparison on my part.

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02-02-2007, 10:34 PM
  #110
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His 26 G 43 A from last year do anything for ya?...
Of course but it seemed to me this year that he was a player who needed some extra motivation (maybe it was just his team). Good to see passion from the kid though

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02-02-2007, 10:36 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
How does a fight have anything at all to do with the guy being able to fit the bill as second line center? Man, you're easy. All a guy has to do is fight ONCE and you're sold. C'mon man...
No...not at all. However...fighting to me shows many things....including toughness, physical edge, emotion, passion

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02-02-2007, 10:36 PM
  #112
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No, he's talking about brad Boyes who had a fight with notorious pugilist Tony Lydman last night in the Bos/Buf game. What does Shanahan have to do with that?
Point is...a fight can do alot of things...especially when its Brad Boyes...and not Colton Orr or Parros or Shelley or etc.

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02-02-2007, 11:04 PM
  #113
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Most kids need motivation in the NHL. I mean, it's only natural. Sometimes these young players lose their confidence and need vets or the coaching staff to lift their spirits. Boyes is in a funk and so is the rest of the team.

Actually, in this situation, I think a change of scenery would hurt him. His confidence would be shot and he'd probably start questioning his own play. The Bruins staff better make a decision on him quickly because this could hurt his game now AND in the future.

Personally, I think he'll stay in Boston. I know Bruins management isn't the best but he's got the potential to be a solid player in this league for a long time. Would they trade that away? IDK, they traded Thornton away, so I guess anything is possible

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02-03-2007, 09:09 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Waiting for Dubi View Post
Most kids need motivation in the NHL. I mean, it's only natural. Sometimes these young players lose their confidence and need vets or the coaching staff to lift their spirits. Boyes is in a funk and so is the rest of the team.

Actually, in this situation, I think a change of scenery would hurt him. His confidence would be shot and he'd probably start questioning his own play. The Bruins staff better make a decision on him quickly because this could hurt his game now AND in the future.

Personally, I think he'll stay in Boston. I know Bruins management isn't the best but he's got the potential to be a solid player in this league for a long time. Would they trade that away? IDK, they traded Thornton away, so I guess anything is possible
Is Boyes suffeing in the same manner that Prucha is on the Rangers? Savard has come in and taken quality minutes much like Shannahan has on the Rangers. Only problem is that for boston Savard still has 4 more years. So Boston might have created its own problem. Did they not send a message to Boyes when they signed Savard? Is Boyes better suited as a center vs a winger?

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02-03-2007, 11:58 AM
  #115
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i dont understand why boston wants to move boyes for so cheap? something's fishy here

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02-03-2007, 04:02 PM
  #116
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I can't speak for florida, but I'd imagine that a team that has been awful for as long as they have would be interested in tangible assets rather than draft picks. Montoya and Prucha gives them a second line winger now and a Goaltender who is very close. If you swap Prucha for Dubi and 1st then your going to have to wait alot longer on those assets. If I was florida I'd preffer Prucha.

There's also the potential that moving prucha works out better for the rangers as well, if Dawes turns into a similar player (though this is pure speculation.)
Without doubt they'll probably ask, but I also wonder how much is about depth potentially or if Prucha is even a player they are high on. For all we know they might prefer to get more players who are younger but who they feel will be players, than one who is already a player whom they have doubts about (maybe durability, etc.)

Not really in disagreement with you here, I can just see Florida asking for something other than Prucha.

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It's not that only rebuilding/developing teams will be interested in his services, I'm sure every team in the league would be interested in picking up Horton. But right now only half the league is really thinking about moving assets, the other half is in sell mold. If Florida waits untill the offseason then they double the group of potential buyers for Hornton.
I dunno, a team that normally is in sell mode would probably be willing to make a move now for Horton and could make an attractive package with a draft pick that looks like it might be pretty high in a pretty deep draft. Horton, because of his age and production is one of those rare situations where I don't think timing is as much of a factor.


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I'm not against moving talent for Boyes, I've just not yet heard anything credible about what Boston might want. I think Boyes could be a good aquistion, but I'm not prepaired to move major pieces for him, though I am open to moving some quality.
Agreed and again a lot of this for me is just a pipe dream.

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02-03-2007, 04:55 PM
  #117
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I dunno, a team that normally is in sell mode would probably be willing to make a move now for Horton and could make an attractive package with a draft pick that looks like it might be pretty high in a pretty deep draft. Horton, because of his age and production is one of those rare situations where I don't think timing is as much of a factor.
that is plausible, but I also think that Florida would be better orr waiting untill the offseason because that would give them some more time to work on him and convince him to stay. Then there's always the possibility that someone just goes nuts with an offer sheet and then Florida ends up with a boatload of draft picks, which they might preffer. Whenever Florida desides to move him, they will get a good return, but they probably have more options in the offseason.


If this rumor really is true, and right now it is nothing more than a rumor, then I think it is an opertunity that the rangers have to try and sieze. I'm not usually someone who says: you have to get this guy! but this is one of those chances that comes along very rarely and the brass must make a big push. How often do we lament the lack of a bonafide first line/franchise level talent in the system? We talk all the time about the rangers eventually making a move for that big young talent, well here it is. As long as the cost isn't silly then you have to pull the trigger. If it means montoya and prucha, ok. If it's Montoya Prucha and a 1st, well that's still probably ok. If it's Dubinsky instead of Prucha then that's ok too. Now we have to reasonable, and I want him as cheap as possible, but this is a player that you go the extra mile for.

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02-03-2007, 05:06 PM
  #118
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also, does anyone know if there is any truth to the: "Florida desperate wants Montoya so they can market him to the hispanic/cuban populace of south florida" rumor? or is this simply conjecture from those of us on these boards?
Bob McKenzie said that Florida really wanted Montoya at the 2004 draft. how much of that is because he's Cuban I have no idea.

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