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Old
01-29-2014, 02:27 PM
  #76
HockeyBasedNYC
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Too bad he cant restructure his contract.

He should be bought out.

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01-29-2014, 02:35 PM
  #77
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I think we have the wingers in place.

I just think that we need to do a better job seperating them bigger guys.

We have 20 million to play with after trading Callahan, Girardi, Brassard and buying out Richards.

Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Kreider - Stastny - Zuccarello
Winnik - Miller - Downie
Dorsett/Fast - Moore/Lindberg - Carcillo

That's a faster team, with size and an ability to play a good puck possession game.

you can even play around and keep Hags on the 3rd line, put Winnik with Stastny and Zuccs and keep Kreider with Stepan and Nash.

On D

McD - Klein
Staal - Stralman
Moore - Allen/McIlrath

The assets gained in the trades and be used in the draft in terms of actual selections, or they can be pooled for a better puck moving defenceman.

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01-29-2014, 02:50 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
But why should it be held against Richards that he gets more PP time?

Richards is a good PP player. Getting more points on the PP doesn't make you less effective.

I understand, if Stastny played that extra 300 minutes on the PP, you can argue he would have had more points, but he didn't.

Richards is a big reason, along with MZA, that the PP is vastly improved this year. To me, Richards bringing it on the PP is a positive.

And if it was the choice of letting Richards go and signing Stastny or NOT signing Stastny, I'd prefer to just buyout Richards and roll Stepan/Brassard.

No reason to overpay Stastny on the open market, who hasn't had a 70+ point season in years, at ~ $7.5M. We will have another situation where we acquire a center at a significant cost who will only put up 55-60 points. I'd rather save that cap for when a game breaking asset, if it ever does happen, hits the market.
So, Richards is getting a nod for the improved PP this year, but doesn't take the hit for a shoddy PP the previous 2 years?

Arniel is more of a reason for the improved PP than Richards. Brad surely is benefitting from it, but it's the system they are running as they have pretty much the same personel than had last year.

I would look to move Brassard as well.

We are a whole lot of mediocre. That's with Richards, Brassard Callahan and Girardi. Not saying that they are the primary reasons for it, but they haven't helped bring us out of mediocrity either.

You don't commit a cap hit of 6.66 to a non-elite 34 year old player for 6 years.

Two players that are both head and shoulders better than Richards didn't get 6 years from San Jose.

We need to cut ties.

That said and you seem like you agree there, you also have to know that Sather WILL spend the money on another player.

6.66 under the current cap is about 10.4% of the overall Cap.
7.5 under next years cap of 71 million is just about 10.6% of the overall cap.

Worst case scenario - What we get with Stastny is the same player, making the same % of cap space but 6 years younger.

However, as mentioned in a previous post.

Stastny, is better defensively. He's better on draws and he's a faster player which lends itself in a better way to the style and system that AV has been moving towards here in NY.

Best case scenario - What we get is a player that improves the overall team speed, adds to the teams defensive concious and enhances the puck possession game.

So, while actual production may be equal, everything else that Stastny adds to the team makes him a much better fit than Richards

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01-29-2014, 02:54 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
But why should it be held against Richards that he gets more PP time?

Richards is a good PP player. Getting more points on the PP doesn't make you less effective.

I understand, if Stastny played that extra 300 minutes on the PP, you can argue he would have had more points, but he didn't.

Richards is a big reason, along with MZA, that the PP is vastly improved this year. To me, Richards bringing it on the PP is a positive.

And if it was the choice of letting Richards go and signing Stastny or NOT signing Stastny, I'd prefer to just buyout Richards and roll Stepan/Brassard.

No reason to overpay Stastny on the open market, who hasn't had a 70+ point season in years, at ~ $7.5M. We will have another situation where we acquire a center at a significant cost who will only put up 55-60 points. I'd rather save that cap for when a game breaking asset, if it ever does happen, hits the market.
I think it's just more accurate to look at time on ice in certain situation rather than just points versus games played.

As far as power play time, Colorado already has other players getting that time, if Richards was there he would likely not be getting that time either.

Now it was some years ago 09-10 but when Stastny did get ~300 PP minutes in one season it also corresponded with his best statistical season as well as 25 power play points. .081 points per power play minute.

Compared to Richards, and once again not every thing is equal, Richards in his best statistical season as a Ranger, 11-12 341 mins 24 pts. his pts per power play min was .070

Now I am not saying things are/were equal, but I do not see any reason to think Richards is a better power play player. To me it looks like a numbers game, Richards one of the best options the Rangers have so he gets that time, Stastny is competing for that time with Duchene, O'Reilly, and now MacKinnon


All that junk withstanding, this is a free out of a contract that would end either with the player being 38-39, who has a no movement clause, who also carries recapture if he does retire for whatever reason.

It's just too much risk.


I am not saying they are sure fire to get Stastny or anyone comparable either, and in fact I think it's more likely they'd use that cap space on a less than desirable player but I still think If it was possible to swap the two players, I certainly would.

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01-29-2014, 03:37 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Well Sather did already use an amnesty buyout on Redden, so it's no fantasy to think he could do it again. No idea what you mean by that.

And Richards does not have trade value now. The Gomez comparison doesn't work - Gomez was 30 at the time of the trade, Richards will be 34 in May.
Redden spent 2+ years in Hartford. Richards, numbers wise is still a 1st line center. Borderline but 1st line. Some GM out there still might be convinced "That Brad Richards could be the difference between an early exit and a Stanley Cup" Maybe the Flames hire Neuiwendyk and he remembers fondly how Brad Richards played for the stars and trades for him. UNLIKELY, however...

agree to disagree with me - I think it's more likely that Brad Richards, a borderline 1st line center, 34 years of age with an unfavorable contract who is still showing that he can play this season, top 50 in power play points, would be traded before he is ever bought out by Sather. We all thought Gomez was done at 30 so not sure age is a big factor. He lost his famous end-to-end speed. 129th in power play points. He did very little for our team and his cap was way worse in the NHL environment back then (like ~60% of todays cap?). I wouldn't expect much back but I wouldn't say he has NO value or is absolutely untradeable like Gomez was (which we were proven wrong about).

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01-29-2014, 04:03 PM
  #81
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The only thing dumber than keeping Richards on this team past this summer would be then trying to trade him.

The retirement recapture penalty still would apply to the Rangers regardless, and while he has "value," it's probably not much.

For example, if the Rangers traded Richards to Tampa Bay in the 2015 offseason, they're still going to get hit with a $5,666,667 yearly penalty each year between when he retires and 19/20.

At least if he remains on this team going forward, he could provide some quality on the PP. Trading him for like a 3rd and a middling prospect or whatever the going rate would be for a 35+ aging center would be a complete waste.

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01-29-2014, 06:09 PM
  #82
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the richards buyout isn't glen, i can almost guarantee its big boy Jimmy Dolan himself.. he doesn't want to fork over the funds.. i dont blame him but its not smart keeping him.. he signed another 6years at 6.66AAV, no thanks!

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01-29-2014, 06:34 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Too bad he cant restructure his contract.

He should be bought out.
Yeah. I don't understand why the CBA doesn't allow for performance-based compensation / incentives (or so I've heard; please correct me if I'm wrong). Just allow them. If you don't want to use them, then don't use them, but there's no reason to eliminate possibilities. The fewer the constraints, the greater the possibilities, and the closer to optimality (max utility) both parties can get.

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01-29-2014, 06:36 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
the richards buyout isn't glen, i can almost guarantee its big boy Jimmy Dolan himself.. he doesn't want to fork over the funds.. i dont blame him but its not smart keeping him.. he signed another 6years at 6.66AAV, no thanks!
Dolan is forking out the cash either way

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01-29-2014, 07:04 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
I don't buy him out unless we have a center who is better than him. Stepan is not better than Richards. Richards is our #1 center right now.

At $6.6M, his cap hit isn't an issue anymore. It's a modest price for a 60-point center.

And I don't want Stastny. Why would we get him? Because he is younger? He is still another 60-point center who won't make a world of difference.

To swap out one 60-point center, who has proven to score 60-points in the Big Apple, for another 60-point center who hasn't played here, and will likely come at a cap hit of $6.6M or greater isn't a step forward. It's a step back in my opinion.
But is he going to be a 60 point center 3 years from now when he still has 3 years left on his contract?

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01-29-2014, 08:19 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
But is he going to be a 60 point center 3 years from now when he still has 3 years left on his contract?
then you Redden him. We don't get any cap penalty trading him do we? You are implying we retain cap (which, yes we would likely have to) but if we didn't then we get off the hook completely, yes? If we traded him for other people's cap issues, I'm sure we could get a 1-for-1 but obviously we have to deal with whoever we get but it's not impossible. Anyways, all signs point to him staying, however bad that is for us.

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01-29-2014, 08:32 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
then you Redden him. We don't get any cap penalty trading him do we? You are implying we retain cap (which, yes we would likely have to) but if we didn't then we get off the hook completely, yes? If we traded him for other people's cap issues, I'm sure we could get a 1-for-1 but obviously we have to deal with whoever we get but it's not impossible. Anyways, all signs point to him staying, however bad that is for us.
I thought he had a NMC?

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01-29-2014, 08:38 PM
  #88
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Statsny is not a good skater. I'd argue Stepan is a better skater than Statsny.

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01-29-2014, 08:39 PM
  #89
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I didnt read the entire thread........but i didnt see this mentioned........

Is it possible to trade BR to another team? More so, a contender who could use a 3rd line center with his skill....or to a team who needs a skilled player to help them reach the cap floor instead?

That way, at least you get something back for him. Might get a half way decent return too? Nothing major, but something of use......

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01-29-2014, 09:51 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noupf View Post
I didnt read the entire thread........but i didnt see this mentioned........

Is it possible to trade BR to another team? More so, a contender who could use a 3rd line center with his skill....or to a team who needs a skilled player to help them reach the cap floor instead?

That way, at least you get something back for him. Might get a half way decent return too? Nothing major, but something of use......
Even if we trade him, when Brad retires, we get hit with the cap-recapture penalty.

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01-29-2014, 10:20 PM
  #91
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NHL/NHLPA should have had a B option with the compliance buyout.
Option B: Team pays Player a penalty(20% of contract ?) to restructure the contract so that it abides by all CBA requirements, so the team will no longer have a potential penalty because of the contract.
I'm sure TBL would have done this with Vincent and NYR would prefer this with Richards.

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01-29-2014, 11:19 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by SKjEi o2 View Post
Statsny is not a good skater. I'd argue Stepan is a better skater than Statsny.
agreed this sucks that the centers going to free agency aren't "top notch" yeah some are good but i dont know if they are an improvement over richards... the only way we are getting another good center to complement stepan on the first line is to trade for one (overpay for one really) so pick your poison....

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01-30-2014, 07:04 AM
  #93
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No guarantees that Stastny or Grabovski sign us with anyway. Neither are or ever have been top notch first line centers. Grabovski is more a 2nd line center. Stastny if I were to guess if he went UFA will make $6.5 mil per annum--for 6-7 years. Grabovski will certainly be over $5 mil. On a really good team you'd want Stastny to be your 2nd line center and Grabovski your third line center.

Dumping Richards though is the right way to go.

If I'm choosing between him and Callahan and Callahan is staying. Won't have to worry about the cap recapture. Won't have to worry about the player keeping up to an NHL pace. Won't have to worry about a guy showing up to camp out of shape.

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01-30-2014, 07:54 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n8 View Post
then you Redden him. We don't get any cap penalty trading him do we? You are implying we retain cap (which, yes we would likely have to) but if we didn't then we get off the hook completely, yes? If we traded him for other people's cap issues, I'm sure we could get a 1-for-1 but obviously we have to deal with whoever we get but it's not impossible. Anyways, all signs point to him staying, however bad that is for us.
contracts that were signed before the most recent CBA.

Because that contract has significant back diving years, if that player retires at any time, the signing team is hit with a cap recapture penalty.

We can trade Richards, but if he retires from the acquiring team after 3 years, The Rangers are hit the cap recapture. Not the team that traded for him.

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01-30-2014, 08:01 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKjEi o2 View Post
Statsny is not a good skater. I'd argue Stepan is a better skater than Statsny.
Stastny, is not a good skater? And this is based on what exactly? No, he's not going to win any speed skating competitions, but he is a much better skater than both Richards and Stepan.

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01-30-2014, 08:09 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by peteyo View Post
agreed this sucks that the centers going to free agency aren't "top notch" yeah some are good but i dont know if they are an improvement over richards... the only way we are getting another good center to complement stepan on the first line is to trade for one (overpay for one really) so pick your poison....
based strictly on offensive production, Stastny and Richards (the now Richards, not the Richards from Dallas) the players are even.

Based on skating, Stastny has a major edge.

Based on defensive awareness and ability, Stastny has a major edge.

Based on ability to win a face off thus leading to a more controlled puck possession kind of game, Stastny again has a major edge.

Richards at 6.66 this year takes up 10.4% of the teams overall cap number.

Assuming we sign Stastny to a 6 year deal (same remaining term as Richards) at 7.5 per, that equates to 10.6% of the teams overall Cap number starting in 2014-15

So, we get the same player offensively, but a better player to fit AV's system at the same cap hit percentage wise AND he's 6 years younger.

The odds of a 28 year old Stastny maintaining a 55-60 point pace over the next 4-5 seasons is much greater than the odds are of a 34 year old Brad Richards maintaining that same pace.

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01-30-2014, 10:10 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
based strictly on offensive production, Stastny and Richards (the now Richards, not the Richards from Dallas) the players are even.

Based on skating, Stastny has a major edge.

Based on defensive awareness and ability, Stastny has a major edge.

Based on ability to win a face off thus leading to a more controlled puck possession kind of game, Stastny again has a major edge.

Richards at 6.66 this year takes up 10.4% of the teams overall cap number.

Assuming we sign Stastny to a 6 year deal (same remaining term as Richards) at 7.5 per, that equates to 10.6% of the teams overall Cap number starting in 2014-15

So, we get the same player offensively, but a better player to fit AV's system at the same cap hit percentage wise AND he's 6 years younger.

The odds of a 28 year old Stastny maintaining a 55-60 point pace over the next 4-5 seasons is much greater than the odds are of a 34 year old Brad Richards maintaining that same pace.
Good points. Thanks for the information.

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01-30-2014, 10:21 AM
  #98
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Not that it means much, different situations and all, but only Crosby and Kopitar have more points than Stastny out of their draft.

Kopitar's numbers are not all that much different. Works out to like 4 points a season more for Kopitar on average since their draft when one takes all their games and points since.

Based solely on stats in two totally different situations, which never really means anything, one could debate that if Kopitar is a top line center, so is Stastny.


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01-30-2014, 10:51 AM
  #99
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only the rangers would buy out a 60 point player and then give another 60 point player a bigger cap hit.

NO THANK YOU to stastny.

JT Miller. Use the saved money to re-up some important players.

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01-30-2014, 11:17 AM
  #100
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I'm not sure why this is a legitimate debate. We all remember Brad last season, no? We have six more seasons of Brad Richards. Somewhere over the course of the remainder of his contract he's going to begin a permanent regression. Expect to see Richards of '12-'13 on a regular basis, if not worse. And at his cap hit, that's a risk any of you would be willing to take?

We've a get out of jail free card here with the amnesty buyout and some of you actually want to throw it away because of an effective 50 or so games this year.

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