HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Game 2 of a Day-Night Double Header

View Poll Results: 3 game balls
Orlando Callahan 1 0.92%
Boof Richards 1 0.92%
Elvis Boyle 13 11.93%
Prince Lundqvist 80 73.39%
Miggy Brassard 13 11.93%
Alcides Carcillo 55 50.46%
Andrelton Hagelin 1 0.92%
Coco Kreider 5 4.59%
Dominic Moore 10 9.17%
Rollie Nash 11 10.09%
Shigetoshi Pouliot 29 26.61%
Pedro Stepan 0 0%
Yunel Klein 0 0%
Hideki Zuccarello 20 18.35%
Ichiro Girardi 3 2.75%
Jorge McDonagh 5 4.59%
John Moore 1 0.92%
Jemile Staal 48 44.04%
Ubaldo Stralman 6 5.50%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-30-2014, 10:17 AM
  #151
GordonGecko
Stanley Cup 2015
 
GordonGecko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 3,686
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by varanger94 View Post
Just like last game, Milbury gave the Rangers absolutely no credit. In between the 2nd and 3rd period, he said the Islanders bad bounces lead to Ranger scoring chances and the goal we scored was a lucky one. Please try to assault another kid and get fired.
And this suprises you? Not only is he a former Islanders guy, but he hates Ulf Samuleson with a passion and blames him for wrecking his boy's career

GordonGecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 10:24 AM
  #152
GordonGecko
Stanley Cup 2015
 
GordonGecko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 3,686
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
The odds are very much against the Rangers winning the cup this year.
Odds pretty much against every team in the NHL, what's your point?
http://www.vegasinsider.com/nhl/odds/futures/

GordonGecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 10:28 AM
  #153
Matt Carle Place
Man Gravity Forgot
 
Matt Carle Place's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
And this suprises you? Not only is he a former Islanders guy, but he hates Ulf Samuleson with a passion and blames him for wrecking his boy's career
Why is Milbury an analyst anyway? You'd think NBC would be able to get better talking heads than Mike ****ing Milbury.

Matt Carle Place is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 10:36 AM
  #154
NHRangerfan
enfoonts
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Country: United States
Posts: 3,091
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
And this suprises you? Not only is he a former Islanders guy, but he hates Ulf Samuleson with a passion and blames him for wrecking his boy's career
He simply hates the Rangers...after giving Jagr crap on every NBC telecast he did while JJ was a Ranger, he all of a sudden found all kinds of love for him on Sunday during the Rangers/Devils game...what a fraud.

Though he isn't alone, lots of Devil fans that I know who did the same thing when he was a Ranger, now think he is the best thing since sliced bread now that he's a Debbie.

NHRangerfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 11:40 AM
  #155
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianBoyle View Post
Klein was solid, I agree.

Doesn't mean you can just discount a statistic because...why are you discounting it again? Oh yeah, you don't have any tangible argument to discredit it, you just yell at people like a homeless person telling them "IT'S GARBAGEE111".
I do have a tangible argument and I've stated it before in pieces, which is puck possession and shots on goal although objective on the surface are subjective in terms of their value as stats. Not all shots are equal (obviously) and puck possession sometimes is dangerous and often leads to scoring chances (i.e, when John Tavares has the puck for 5 seconds) and sometimes it is nothing more than pinning the puck against the boards waiting for someone to pry it away (and in today's league where pucks are almost never frozen along the boards this happens all the time). So, the advanced stats although they appear objective; they are not.

My real issue is that this is an opinion board; a place to voice your thoughts and impressions and to allow for others to either agree, disagree and in many cases attack you. However, some seem to think this is a place to try and be "correct" and to establish themselves as correct and instead of just voicing an opinion they present advanced stats as though they are objective and reliable.

I often wonder if such people watch the game, decide that Kevin Klein had a bad game and instead of posting that they don't like the way he played they check the Corsi to see if their opinion is correct. And if the stats carroborate their opinion they post with the stats as proof that they in fact are right.

Or do they just look at the stats and post using the stats as their opinion.

These stats are for professionals who need them to cover their ass when a prospect or player they touted falls on his face; the same way baseball scouts will draft a pitcher who's 6' 5" instead of one who's 5' 10" because it covers their ass if he fails. I just don't see what place it has on these boards. I want to read people's opinions; not see how much leg work they did after a game. Sue me.

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 11:46 AM
  #156
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
I do have a tangible argument and I've stated it before in pieces, which is puck possession and shots on goal although objective on the surface are subjective in terms of their value as stats. Not all shots are equal (obviously) and puck possession sometimes is dangerous and often leads to scoring chances (i.e, when John Tavares has the puck for 5 seconds) and sometimes it is nothing more than pinning the puck against the boards waiting for someone to pry it away (and in today's league where pucks are almost never frozen along the boards this happens all the time). So, the advanced stats although they appear objective; they are not.
Actual puck possession time isn't even a real thing. When advanced stats talks about puck possession, they're basically just measuring shots for your team while you're on the ice vs shots against your team while you're on the ice, not how much time you or your team actually has the puck on the stick.

That said, supposedly they've found that shot quality isn't much of a thing and there's no relevant way of measuring that, but eh.


Quote:
These stats are for professionals who need them to cover their ass when a prospect or player they touted falls on his face; the same way baseball scouts will draft a pitcher who's 6' 5" instead of one who's 5' 10" because it covers their ass if he fails. I just don't see what place it has on these boards. I want to read people's opinions; not see how much leg work they did after a game. Sue me.
I think the advanced stats can definitely be useful but they are incomplete and not particularly good at picking out individual players and providing a clear picture of how good or bad they are.

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 12:06 PM
  #157
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Actual puck possession time isn't even a real thing. When advanced stats talks about puck possession, they're basically just measuring shots for your team while you're on the ice vs shots against your team while you're on the ice, not how much time you or your team actually has the puck on the stick.

That said, supposedly they've found that shot quality isn't much of a thing and there's no relevant way of measuring that, but eh.




I think the advanced stats can definitely be useful but they are incomplete and not particularly good at picking out individual players and providing a clear picture of how good or bad they are.

So, it's all about the shots on goal with adjustments made for zone starts and competition? Again, subjective and not reliable even over a large sample. If people quoted these stats as just an additional measure of a player's performance I would be fine. But too often they are used as a means of providing a definitive measure of performance and that is not credible; at all.

You shouldn't need stats to determine how good or bad you think a player is; if you watch them play night after night. And as Ranger fans I assume we're all watching them night after night.

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 12:22 PM
  #158
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
SnowblindNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 17,218
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
I do have a tangible argument and I've stated it before in pieces, which is puck possession and shots on goal although objective on the surface are subjective in terms of their value as stats. Not all shots are equal (obviously) and puck possession sometimes is dangerous and often leads to scoring chances (i.e, when John Tavares has the puck for 5 seconds) and sometimes it is nothing more than pinning the puck against the boards waiting for someone to pry it away (and in today's league where pucks are almost never frozen along the boards this happens all the time). So, the advanced stats although they appear objective; they are not.

My real issue is that this is an opinion board; a place to voice your thoughts and impressions and to allow for others to either agree, disagree and in many cases attack you. However, some seem to think this is a place to try and be "correct" and to establish themselves as correct and instead of just voicing an opinion they present advanced stats as though they are objective and reliable.

I often wonder if such people watch the game, decide that Kevin Klein had a bad game and instead of posting that they don't like the way he played they check the Corsi to see if their opinion is correct. And if the stats carroborate their opinion they post with the stats as proof that they in fact are right.

Or do they just look at the stats and post using the stats as their opinion.

These stats are for professionals who need them to cover their ass when a prospect or player they touted falls on his face; the same way baseball scouts will draft a pitcher who's 6' 5" instead of one who's 5' 10" because it covers their ass if he fails. I just don't see what place it has on these boards. I want to read people's opinions; not see how much leg work they did after a game. Sue me.
This 1,000 times this. What's annoying is how smug "holier than thou" advanced stats proponents are. They seem to think they have the objective key measure every player and team's performance and are smarter than everyone else because they can understand basic math. I know it was tongue in cheek, but remember the original name of 31's thread? Every joke is partially true.

SnowblindNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 12:57 PM
  #159
Mint
Registered User
 
Mint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,704
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
This 1,000 times this. What's annoying is how smug "holier than thou" advanced stats proponents are. They seem to think they have the objective key measure every player and team's performance and are smarter than everyone else because they can understand basic math. I know it was tongue in cheek, but remember the original name of 31's thread? Every joke is partially true.
Wow Snowblind, I think the exact opposite. The smugness is coming from the side that has no proponent facts to base their opinions off of and end up retorting to the 'you just don't understand hockey' or 'watch the damn game', but in a more aggressive tone more often than not.

Mint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 01:08 PM
  #160
Killem Dafoe
Moderator
modus operandi
 
Killem Dafoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Land of Bad Drivers
Country: United States
Posts: 15,253
vCash: 50
There is just a lot of smugness in general, but that's the internet. Some people feel the need to prove themselves. Nothing wrong with that. We each have different personalities and ways of posting in a forum like this. You just got to roll with it and let some people do their thing.

Killem Dafoe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 01:10 PM
  #161
NYR2047
WebMD Trained Doctor
 
NYR2047's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,663
vCash: 50
One thing I liked about both outdoor games is that it seems like even when the team gets down a goal or two they just fight back and not seem to break down like they did in the beginning of the season

NYR2047 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 01:10 PM
  #162
Pizza
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,918
vCash: 500
There are a lot of IFs in any Stanley Cup equation. A few things are constants though.

Superior goal tending.

Solid D.

Timely scoring.

If Hank gets red hot (I still think we have not seen that upper level from him), that alone makes the Rangers a very scary opponent.

If Staal continues his consistent play and the D can elevate a bit more, we are even scarier.

If Nash actually shows up in the playoffs, Zucc, Kreider, Cally, others ditto...well you get where I'm going.

This team....at it's best can play with anyone. That's a tall order, but not impossible.

Pizza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 01:48 PM
  #163
SwedeAmerican
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 95
vCash: 500
just was on the isles board... of course they're giving the Rangers no credit and also saying that Ranger fans were obnoxious...

SwedeAmerican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 01:50 PM
  #164
GordonGecko
Stanley Cup 2015
 
GordonGecko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 3,686
vCash: 50
I'm sure they love how nobody told C-Lo the Islanders were actually the home team

ha ha

GordonGecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 02:50 PM
  #165
KingP
Registered User
 
KingP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New york
Posts: 3,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedeAmerican View Post
just was on the isles board... of course they're giving the Rangers no credit and also saying that Ranger fans were obnoxious...
Right where we want them

MAD

KingP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 03:01 PM
  #166
ImIdaho
Choo-Choo-Choose me!
 
ImIdaho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,151
vCash: 500
Who cares what Stan thinks?

Just stick Stan in a wooden rocker that's placed in a corner and give him some apple sauce to keep him quiet.

ImIdaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 03:25 PM
  #167
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mint View Post
Wow Snowblind, I think the exact opposite. The smugness is coming from the side that has no proponent facts to base their opinions off of and end up retorting to the 'you just don't understand hockey' or 'watch the damn game', but in a more aggressive tone more often than not.
This is exactly the issue. You hit it on the head. We base our opinions on what we see hopefully with a large sample; and most posters when forming an opinion with a small sample qualify their comments with something that recognizes that fact. We are hockey fans who form opinions on players based on our perception of how much they help our team win games. Why do we NEED additional information. We can use it if we want but you guys make it seem like advanced stats are a necessary component to fan player evaluation. I think it's not.

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 03:25 PM
  #168
The Undertaker
Registered User
 
The Undertaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 586
vCash: 500
Well that was cold.

Edit:

Harder to analyze while there but, I'd go with.

1. Hank
2. Stralman
3. Carbomb

The Undertaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 03:27 PM
  #169
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mint View Post
Wow Snowblind, I think the exact opposite. The smugness is coming from the side that has no proponent facts to base their opinions off of and end up retorting to the 'you just don't understand hockey' or 'watch the damn game', but in a more aggressive tone more often than not.
Oh and btw advanced stats are not "facts" so neither of us is using proponent facts in our differing analyses.

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 03:28 PM
  #170
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedeAmerican View Post
just was on the isles board... of course they're giving the Rangers no credit and also saying that Ranger fans were obnoxious...
We were. As were they. It was alot of fun.

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 05:15 PM
  #171
The Perfect Paradox
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,496
vCash: 50
While I am glad that the Rangers took four of four points, I am completely done with the outdoor games. These outdoor games lost their novelty after the second or third Winter Classic IMO. Even seeing my favorite team play in them doesn't really get me excited. Maybe if I actually attended one of these three games I would be singing a different tune.

POTG for me was Staal. These last few games he has been absolutely fantastic. His style of play and ability to shut down the opposition is in top form. He's playing at the level he was at before those string of injuries started.

The Perfect Paradox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2014, 05:46 PM
  #172
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,628
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
This 1,000 times this. What's annoying is how smug "holier than thou" advanced stats proponents are. They seem to think they have the objective key measure every player and team's performance and are smarter than everyone else because they can understand basic math. I know it was tongue in cheek, but remember the original name of 31's thread? Every joke is partially true.
o.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Oh and btw advanced stats are not "facts" so neither of us is using proponent facts in our differing analyses.
Well, yeah, they are. You can make the argument that they are facts that are misinterpreted, but they are facts.

__________________
Rangers Unlimited
Hockey Graphs
Brian Boyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:14 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.