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Can Sutter survive latest round of infighting Blackhawks battles?

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01-28-2004, 02:42 PM
  #1
Stuy
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Can Sutter survive latest round of infighting Blackhawks battles?

Things getting really bad in Blackhawk land.


http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/co...intid=38014205

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01-28-2004, 02:47 PM
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All I can say as a hockey fan....wow.

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01-28-2004, 03:27 PM
  #3
Darth Vitale
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The entire organization is a joke, the laughing stock of the NHL. At least the Penguins and Sabres (to name two), for all their troubles, are basically a cohesive organization. Where despite very little in the way of hockey resources, they make a concerted effort to win and give something decent to the fans.

The Hawks have "resources" coming out their ears but do nothing with them, year in and year out. Honestly I wish Wirtz would sell the team, even move it. Original Six means nothing if you treat your fans the way the Hawks do. Let them go somewhere else under new ownership and thrive.

It all starts at the top; this team will never win with Wirtz as the owner. Winning is not his goal.

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01-28-2004, 06:45 PM
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Man, I feel even worse for Hawks fans. I agree they got tons of young talent. Perhaps the crap that Sutter is pulling is one reason that Ruutu hasn't shined like he was supposed to. And this sounds awful too:

"Pulford is still trying to make an impact and make trades.

And he has made some - until Tallon finds out about them and nixes the deals. This isn't making the Hawks very popular among GMs around the league, but then that's nothing new, either."

So just in case Chicago does try to get some help, who's going to want to trade with them.

This seems like a situation you just want to fire everybody and start over with new management (who hopefully knows how to play nice with others).

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01-28-2004, 08:01 PM
  #5
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That franchise is just one big joke. For an Original Six team with that much history, its gotta be really disheartening to be a Blackhawks fan right now.

Somebody should just buy it of off Wirtz, its not like the franchise is worth a lot at this point ...

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01-28-2004, 08:14 PM
  #6
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Wow. You gotta feel for the 'Hawks fans that are putting up with this crap. The whole situation is a joke.

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01-28-2004, 08:22 PM
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Vlad The Impaler
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The article make it sound awful but give absolutely no sources. There's nothing to substantiate most of what is in this article.

I don't like Brian Sutter as much as Darryl but I'd say the Sutter carry an undeserved reputaion perpetuated in great parts by joe-average-fans. This is in fact the first year I don't see at least half of the HF population say Darryl Sutter is a crappy coach.

As for Brian, well, you try to win with such a crappy lineup AND on top of that, their key players like Zhamnov and Thibault were injured. Ruutu was also injured slightly during camp. Seems to me this guy went into action too early.

I would say the Hawks organization is bush-league when it tries to save money by not paying an ex-GM but much of what is in this article is not very different from what happens in every losing organization. When you struggle, nobody is happy and everybody's job is often on the line.

Where's the meat in this article?

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01-28-2004, 08:32 PM
  #8
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Wirtz will never sell.

We can sadly only wait until he passes away. But true to his Mr. Burns-esque demeanour, he also seems to have share the unnatural longevity(proof that the liver is the strongest organ in the body!).

Peter Wirtz will then take over. Publically he says that he supports all of his fathers mandates, but most believe that this isn't necessarily true. For one thing, its said that peter is "softer" on the No home Television policy(for those that don't know, even if the hawks sold out, the home games will not be on tv-because its "not fair" to season ticket holders such as myself to let someone else watch for free...no kidding thats the rationale).

The worst part is, I don't think there is an owner in Hockey with as much money as Wirtz. This guy is loaded-loaded, and the hawks constantly make money- even when they are trying to make it look like they lose money.

Don't forget, Wirtz owns the UC(not Reinsdorff, although i'm sure they have something worked out). He owns all the lots surronding the UC. He owns all the concessions(and most of the beer/liquor distributors in the midwest). All of that, and he won't pay anyone over 4.5 mil. Not to mention the banks, building on Michigan Ave, etc etc etc.... Cranes business chicago had Wirtz INc as the second biggest money maker in 2003 in chicago- something around 850 million... And remember he couldn't "afford" to resign Roenick at 3.5 mil or whatever it was...

You will all share our pain in the CBA, because Wirtz won't budge until there is "cost certainty". There isn't a single owner in sports that I wouldn't rather have than Wirtz. Boston fans, I'd trade in a minute!

-fullmetalninja

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01-28-2004, 08:40 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
The article make it sound awful but give absolutely no sources. There's nothing to substantiate most of what is in this article.

I don't like Brian Sutter as much as Darryl but I'd say the Sutter carry an undeserved reputaion perpetuated in great parts by joe-average-fans. This is in fact the first year I don't see at least half of the HF population say Darryl Sutter is a crappy coach.

As for Brian, well, you try to win with such a crappy lineup AND on top of that, their key players like Zhamnov and Thibault were injured. Ruutu was also injured slightly during camp. Seems to me this guy went into action too early.

I would say the Hawks organization is bush-league when it tries to save money by not paying an ex-GM but much of what is in this article is not very different from what happens in every losing organization. When you struggle, nobody is happy and everybody's job is often on the line.

Where's the meat in this article?
Vlad-

Rozner is a mudslinger, so most of what he says about anything should be taken with a grain of salt. Here's the deal though... the only consistantly good hockey writer in chicago is Tim Sassone- who also writes for the Herald. I'm not alone when I state that Sassone is most likely the "source". And Sassone is the most connected reporter in chicago- hockey wise. Rozner was famous for slamming Smith from day 1 forward. Mike Smith once said that he has never seen Rozner at a hawk practice, nor has he ever been to a game. Smith invited Rozner to dinner to try and work out the differences, and allegedly Rozner declined.

A year ago, Rozner was calling for Smith's head everytime he wrote about hockey(which wasn't often) and praising Sutter. Now, almost the reverse.

That said, the tension between tallon and Pulford has been an ongoing theme in Chicago since Dale was named "asst" Gm. Everyone expected pully's "son-in-law" Lombardi to be named GM. When Tallon got the promotion, Pulford came out in the papers and said that the move didn't necessarily mean that Tallon was going to be the Next GM. This prompted Wirtz himself, to come out of the Spider Hole and say he "completely intended" on promoting Tallon to the job once he had some on the job training.

The bickering between Smith(who never wanted to hire Sutter anyway) and Sutter was also well known.

Anyway, you are right- there is no meat there. Rozner is a mudslinger, a poor man's Jay Mariotti(which means bad). But the beat writer- who has to watch what he says negatively about players/mgmt is probably letting Rozner in on some of this, so not all of it should be discounted.

-fullmetalninja

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Old
01-28-2004, 10:30 PM
  #10
I Am Ziggy Palffy
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at least they still have really cool uniforms...both home and away...but not their 3rd

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01-30-2004, 03:36 AM
  #11
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Has anyone seen this website: http://www.careermisconduct.com/

From the book:

Quote:
Career Misconduct exposes a series of corrupt practices by Chicago Blackhawks owner Bill Wirtz, including repeated antitrust violations, bribery of public officials, stealing from his 'niece's' trust fund, collusion against the NHL players, and the buying of special-interest legislation. In addition, the book details Bill Wirtz's greed, mismanagement, lies and civic irresponsibility as owner of the Blackhawks. The book is replete with startling, undisputed, never-before-made-public factual evidence of Wirtz's corporate mismanagement of a kind that is often rumored but seldom documented. Bill Wirtz is one of the richest men in the world, and one of the most powerful men in Chicago, but as the evidence in this book reveals, Wirtz has cynically abused his power and privilege for years. It is a story neither the Blackhawks nor Bill Wirtz want you to read. It is a story that brings into sharp focus Wirtz's commercial immorality. It is a story that proves that at least for billionaires like Wirtz crime does pay. It is a story that will turn your stomach. It is the story of Career Misconduct.

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01-30-2004, 03:40 AM
  #12
Baron Von Shark
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And for anyone wondering how rich Bill Wirtz really is

Quote:
In Chicago, Bill Wirtz is best known as the owner of the Chicago Blackhawks, but beyond that he is also one of the richest men in the world. In its October 2000 issue, Forbes magazine, our society's chronicler of the wealthy elite, estimated that there were 298 billionaires in America and 482 billionaires across the globe, and Bill Wirtz is certainly one of them. The Wirtz family guards its financial data zealously, but what is known is this: Wirtz's major assets include the Chicago Blackhawks, the United Center, several liquor distributors, exclusive real estate, banking interests, and substantial stock holdings. The Blackhawks themselves are valued at close to $200 million. The United Center, of which Wirtz owns 50 percent, is worth at least $200 million. Crain's Chicago Business estimates that Wirtz also owns approximately 100 residential buildings, most of them near or on the Chicago lakefront, and owns one of Chicago's premier commercial properties, the 333 N. Michigan Ave. office building. An average property on Chicago's lakefront is conservatively worth $20 million, which puts Wirtz's real estate holding alone at $2 billion.

Wirtz is also the eighth-largest beverage distributor in the U.S., owning a collection of liquor distributors in various states, including Judge & Dolph Ltd., which sells approximately 33% of all wine and liquor in Illinois. Other Wirtz-owned distributorships exist in Wisconsin, Texas, Nevada and Minnesota. According to court filings in 1999, Wirtz's liquor distributorships have annual sales of approximately $750 million. In addition, public records reveal that Wirtz owns 6,451,122 shares of Firstar Bank, a multi-state bank holding company that owns over 1,200 banks in 12 states. The stock currently has a market value of more than $148 million. In addition, Wirtz owns 1,754,000 shares of Alberto-Culver Co. with a current market value of over $52 million. (Since he sits on the board of directors of both these companies, these two stocks are the only ones that Wirtz is compelled to disclose by law.) He also owns numerous parking lots, as well as horse farms in Illinois and Ohio, and several independent banks, including 100% of First Security Trust & Savings Bank in Elmwood Park, Illinois, and 72% of First National Bank of South Miami, Florida. All told, even a conservative estimate of Wirtz's assets brings them to between $3 - $4 billion.
The man has an empire. His money will go a long way. I wouldn't expect the Blackhawks to be any more succesful once Wirtz is gone; his family will run the organization into the ground.

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01-30-2004, 03:58 AM
  #13
fullmetalninja
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Its even bigger than that Baron-

This fall, The Suntimes got a hold of court documents from the Peter Wirtz divorce Trial. The dumb @ss was actually trying to low ball his wife on how much money he had.

So her attorneys opened up his books.... The flow chart of businesses took a two page spread up pretty damn well!

A quick story that I tell people. My boss sits on a charity board that the Wirtz's are also involved with. He was invited for a trip on the Blackhawk- their enormous family yacht. My boss actually felt sorry for them as they sailed through the harbor people were flipping them off and screaming: YOU SUCK WIRTZ.... amongst other more colorful phrases :p

-fullmetalninja


Last edited by fullmetalninja: 01-30-2004 at 04:01 AM.
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01-30-2004, 04:42 AM
  #14
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Wow. That is just sickening......

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01-30-2004, 06:47 AM
  #15
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I feel for Hawks fans, and I hope that franchise can turn it around. That being said, I hope they don't begin turning it around until after tomorrow when I go to watch them get worked by the Flames.

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01-30-2004, 08:06 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
The article make it sound awful but give absolutely no sources. There's nothing to substantiate most of what is in this article.

I don't like Brian Sutter as much as Darryl but I'd say the Sutter carry an undeserved reputaion perpetuated in great parts by joe-average-fans. This is in fact the first year I don't see at least half of the HF population say Darryl Sutter is a crappy coach.

As for Brian, well, you try to win with such a crappy lineup AND on top of that, their key players like Zhamnov and Thibault were injured. Ruutu was also injured slightly during camp. Seems to me this guy went into action too early.

I would say the Hawks organization is bush-league when it tries to save money by not paying an ex-GM but much of what is in this article is not very different from what happens in every losing organization. When you struggle, nobody is happy and everybody's job is often on the line.

Where's the meat in this article?
Reading that article, I was wondering the same thing myself Vlad. This is really a scalding article and we don't know if the guy has any credibility at all. He is making some HUGE accusations and he *SHOULD* have sources to back up those pretty nasty charges.

Perhaps a Hawks fan could tell us if this guy is usually on the level or if he is a sensationalist.

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01-30-2004, 08:30 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirtzsucks
Things getting really bad in Blackhawk land.


http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/co...intid=38014205
Jesus Christ, just looking at this from an ouside point of view Wirtz seems to be the biggest part of the problem and I am sure he has to shoulder some of the blame but if that article is accurate the Hawks have a ton of problems.

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01-30-2004, 08:35 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Von Shark
Has anyone seen this website: http://www.careermisconduct.com/

From the book:
I had heard of it but didnt know how to get a copy, I am going to order one now and read about what a POS Wirtz is. He has absolutely alianated great sports fans.

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01-30-2004, 03:22 PM
  #19
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Here's what Steve Rosenbloom said about Wirtz...

"Nowhere does it stink worse than here.

Billfold Wirtz trashed a near-Cup team. His organ-I-zation went from the legendary Stadium to a league record for attendance to a laughingstock.

He ran out every star. He gave you no one to watch. He refused to pay for your heroes and brought in a Russophile GM who turned this into a hockey gulag along with a coach who wanted to sissify what once was the toughest team in the league.

And of course, Billfold Wirtz raised prices. That's what he does. And of course, Billfold Wirtz lowered the quality. That's also what he does.

Eventually he quit on the fans. Quit trying to win. Quit trying to fake acting like a professional. Quit on what used to be the loudest fan base in sports history (and I have national anthem after national anthem to prove it).

And so the fans have quit on him, not that he knows or cares, seeing as how he has done nothing to show it matters. Billfold Wirtz's organ-I-zation doesn't get it. What it got last week was last place. Which is what it deserves. Shame there's no spot lower."

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01-30-2004, 03:24 PM
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(Rosenbloom writes for the Chicago Tribune, if anybody cares.)

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01-30-2004, 11:50 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stardog
Perhaps a Hawks fan could tell us if this guy is usually on the level or if he is a sensationalist.
Rozner never lets the facts get in the way for his hatred when writing an article. He usually has a few people that he doesnt like and he consistently blasts them from an an extrememly biased point of view.

He was totally unrealistic in his hatred of Mike Smith last year and he supported Sutter and Pulford and I thought some of his musings were out and out laughable. I have always thought SUtter has been an AWFUL coach for the Hawks, especially with the younger players. He is a dinosaur who has worn out his welcome.

Now Rozner has turned his hatred on Pulford and Sutter but at least he shares the consensus view of Chicagoans whereas with Smith his hatred seemed more personal in nature. But nothing he wrote in this article appears untrue, it seems totally ion line with how the Hawks are operating.

It is common knowledge that Peter Wirtz has grown weery of Pulford. Outside of Bill WIrtz dying the only thing that the Hawks can do to right the ship is flat out fire Pulford to the point where he has NOTHING to do with the organization. He has sabotaged any potential this team has had for success.

For instance it was Pulford that let Pulfords old scouting regime headed by Michel Dumas and his scouts make the second 1st rdr& 2nd-4th rds a few years ago and took Adam Munro in the first instead of letting Smith and his personnel make the picks. (Pulford didnt want Smith to load up on more more Euros after the Alpo Suhonen fiasco)

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01-31-2004, 05:01 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Von Shark
And for anyone wondering how rich Bill Wirtz really is



The man has an empire. His money will go a long way. I wouldn't expect the Blackhawks to be any more succesful once Wirtz is gone; his family will run the organization into the ground.
This man scares the hell out of me.

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Old
01-31-2004, 05:59 AM
  #23
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All I can say is what's happened to the Hawks is sad, if Montreal Canadiens fans thought it was bad a few years ago they just have to look at Chicago and feel better about the Habs organization.

Also, rich people suck. Just look at Paris Hilton. Isn't is sad that such an uneducated fool will inherit millions of dollars? I don't know him but I'd be willing to bet that Wirtz is an arrogant *****.

If the hawks ever move it'll be a sad day because the original six still means something.

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