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Trade Rumours Thread XIV: Rangers gauging interest on Callahan/Girardi

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01-30-2014, 10:41 PM
  #876
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I know I'm in the minority in that I want to see Cally and Girardi in NY for the rest of their careers, and would be willing to see a "slight" overpayment to lock them up...I really hope this trade talk is just to put pressure on the two players to sign quickly.

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01-30-2014, 10:43 PM
  #877
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Impossible to know what the true value is. Would be great if we had a fly on the wall to hear the GM conversations. What will this trade market be like come deadline day.

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01-30-2014, 10:45 PM
  #878
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I know I'm in the minority in that I want to see Cally and Girardi in NY for the rest of their careers, and would be willing to see a "slight" overpayment to lock them up...I really hope this trade talk is just to put pressure on the two players to sign quickly.
I felt the same... Until I read Cally wants 7M...

Then I was like "**** that mother****ing bull****ing horse ****"

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01-30-2014, 10:48 PM
  #879
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From the reports, let's assume Girardi will sign.

Regarding Callahan, it is a catch 22. I am no Sather supporter, but this is a very touchy subject and a tough position to be in. Callahan is a "heart and soul" player, if that counts as a legitimate thing, and leads by example on the ice. He is always contributing, either on the scoreboard or by doing what he can to shift each play in our favor. He sacrifices his body, he kills penalties at an elite level, he has his head on straight and understands what it takes to win and what it takes to be a professional athlete in New York City.

Some may not subscribe to those "intangibles", but the more players that are shipped out that possess those qualities, the more you continue to strip away your identiy. It would take quite some time to find a suitable replacement that will do the things he does and brings the same never-quit mentality.

On the flip side there is a business.

Personally, i feel using emotion and business when making these decisions is not wise. Rather, what is a good hockey decision. What decision makes the team better. Not the product, not the entertainment, not what sells more tickets, not what makes fans or management happy. What is the smart hockey decision. Take into consideration chemistry, identity, longevity, and function within the limits of the salary cap.

We can see this is a touchy and polarizing subject. Unfortunately, no matter what happens, there will be unhappy people. We can just hope that management makes a smart decision based not on what business or emotion dictates, but what is best for the team and what makes the team better moving forward.

If he is traded, personally i hope there are certain personality and player types that are avoided. Avoid enigmatic players that are all skill and dont possess the right mentality. That means no high-risk players such as Yakupov. No KHL risks. No players with prior serious injuries, specifically head injuries. Make sure the main piece coming back is a young player that has leadership qualities, has won in his career (NCAA Title, Memorial Cup, etc), fills a specific role (top 6 center, scorer, power forward, etc), has their head on straight, work ethic on and off the ice. The return doesn't need to be a #1 pick or a former #1 pick, but a player they specifically target who fills a specific role, who exemplifies the identity they want to instill. Be it a forward or defenseman (preferably a center).

You simply can not trade Callahan because of cap implications, for what ever return presents its self. If the return isn't there, then figure out a way to make the cap work. This isn't Del Zotto we are discussing. Del Zotto SHOULD have returned something more than Kevin Klein, a 29 year old "solid" borderline top 5 defenseman with no upside. Yes he fills a role, yes he is signed to a manageable contract. Fact is Sather waited until the coaching staff completely evaporated his trade value.

Which brings us to the root of the problem. 70+ year old Sather. It begins and ends with (James Dolan, really) Glen Sather. If he can't figure out a way to either A- sign Callahan and manage the cap in such a way that he can further improve the team, or B- get a cornerstone piece in return for Callahan, then Sather needs to be fired on the spot. And not just from the GM position, but as President, as well. He has had his grubby fingers on this organization for 14 years and he has gotten it nowhere. His time has come and gone a long time ago.

So, what is the right move, here? Its a profound situation, and there is no easy decision.
Great, thoughtful post. I agree with the majority of what you're saying. It's completely on Slats if the Rangers don't get the correct return, or lose him for nothing. Its been on him the entire time, seemingly with no accountability whatsoever.

It's been back and forth and turning over this team every season except for one and the Rangers made the conference finals that year. It's been coach after coach, switching styles for styles. It's short sided, unplanned approach with shiny toys sporting dying batteries. Truth is he should have been out of here a long time ago.

And welcome to the board.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 01-30-2014 at 10:54 PM.
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01-30-2014, 10:49 PM
  #880
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Would everyone be more-or-less copesetic with a contract similar to what Dustin Brown signed?

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01-30-2014, 10:52 PM
  #881
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Cally/Girardi seem like they would fit in extremely well with Anaheim and their system is loaded with talent. Same goes for Chicago. I would think that there could be a deal completed between us and those squads.

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01-30-2014, 10:52 PM
  #882
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Would everyone be more-or-less copesetic with a contract similar to what Dustin Brown signed?
I'd be happy with any contract under 6M as long as there wasn't a NMC. I think Callys the type of guy you can trade for value, even when his play starts to diminish. Although id rather see us move him for assets before the deadline.

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01-30-2014, 10:53 PM
  #883
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CHI
Adam Clendening
Jeremy Morin
Garret Ross

NSH
Ryan Ellis
Austin Watson
Zach Budish

DET
Ryan Sproul
Riley Sheahan
Landon Ferraro

BUF
Zemgus Girgensons
Marcus Foligno
Tyler Myers

ANA
Sami Vatanen
Emerson Etem
Kyle Palmieri

MIN
Charlie Coyle
Mathew Dumba
Jason Zucker

FLA
Nick Bjugstad
Drew Shore
Vincent Trocheck

OTT
Mika Zibanejad
Jared Cowen
Cole Schneider

LAK
Tyler Toffoli
Linden Vey
Tanner Pearson

SJS
Matthew Nieto
Matt Tennyson
Tommy Wingles

If we can't get a substantial return for a package including Callahan, then is it worth it to simply make him a cap casualty.
You want 1 of those players, right?

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01-30-2014, 10:55 PM
  #884
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Would everyone be more-or-less copesetic with a contract similar to what Dustin Brown signed?
No.

Any contract signed by Ryan Callahan should not go over 5 years. He's too injury prone to justify that.

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01-30-2014, 11:00 PM
  #885
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No.

Any contract signed by Ryan Callahan should not go over 5 years. He's too injury prone to justify that.
Unless it's a six year for under 5 million. But he's not looking for that.

He deserves to get paid. He should go to free agency. Most hell get from rangers is 6 over 5 or thereabouts. He could get 6-7 over 7 on the open market and that's a difference of almost 20 million. Who gives up that kind of money when you know it's your last contract, when you are an injury prone player. You and your family are set for life. That extra 20 is a big deal, and no one should fault him for that. I don't think many are.

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01-30-2014, 11:01 PM
  #886
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Unless it's a six year for under 5 million. But he's not looking for that.
Yeah, under 5 million is not realistic.

This is just an ugly situation.

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01-30-2014, 11:03 PM
  #887
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Great, thoughtful post. I agree with the majority of what you're saying. It's completely on Slats if the Rangers don't get the correct return, or lose him for nothing. Its been on him the entire time, seemingly with no accountability whatsoever.

It's been back and forth and turning over this team every season except for one and the Rangers made the conference finals that year. It's been coach after coach, switching styles for styles. It's short sided, unplanned approach with shiny toys with dying batteries. Truth is he should have been out of here a long time ago.

And welcome to the board.
Thanks. Agree, the constant turnover has really taken a toll. There's not much you can do if the players (or their agents) price themselves out and force your hand to trade them or let them walk, but we have seen bit by bit the identity of the "black and blueshirts" walk or get shipped out.

Lately it seems as though the team is starting to gel again. Seeing behind the scenes footage and seeing the players enjoying themselves and eachother' company is refreshing from last year's utter disappointment.

But the truth is, it is still a team in flux or transition. From Tortorella's team to Vignault's. Or is it really just Dolan's and Sather's? I can't tell anymore. And I can't tell if there is a concise plan or objective.

Any Callahan (and/or Girardi) trade needs to be done with true vision, and not just on a whim.

Sather has to go. The Rangers need a fresh and intelligent hockey mind at their helm with foresight, purpose, and a clear objective set forth for everyone to follow.


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01-30-2014, 11:09 PM
  #888
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Would it shock anyone to see a 1-year deal for Callahan? It could work to his advantage. Growing cap, could play/produce more next year in AV's system, especially if he stays healthy. He'll still be under 30 when free agency starts.

Players obviously want to see max term, but a 1 year deal can be beneficial to both parties.

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01-30-2014, 11:10 PM
  #889
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You want 1 of those players, right?
Ideally, no. But it couldn't be just Callahan, it would have to include other parts. But that's sort of the point. If you are trading him, its because you admit to yourself you arent winning the Cup this season, the buyer ideally is looking to make a run or use Callahan as a building block for their own immediate future.

The buyer should ideally pay for a player of Callahan's reputation (he holds a lot of respect around the league).

But like i mentioned earlier, if the return isnt there, then you have to make the cap work. This is Sather's defining decision, IMO. If he botches this one, that has to be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

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01-30-2014, 11:11 PM
  #890
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Sather has to go.
You're going to fit right in.

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01-30-2014, 11:11 PM
  #891
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Would it shock anyone to see a 1-year deal for Callahan? It could work to his advantage. Growing cap, could play/produce more next year in AV's system, especially if he stays healthy. He'll still be under 30 when free agency starts.

Players obviously want to see max term, but a 1 year deal can be beneficial to both parties.
Thought about it, but that would be really foolish on his part.

Rangers would take that and run with it.

Callahan could potentially lose well over 40 million by doing that.

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01-30-2014, 11:18 PM
  #892
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CHI
Adam Clendening
Jeremy Morin
Garret Ross

NSH
Ryan Ellis
Austin Watson
Zach Budish

DET
Ryan Sproul
Riley Sheahan
Landon Ferraro

BUF
Zemgus Girgensons
Marcus Foligno
Tyler Myers

ANA
Sami Vatanen
Emerson Etem
Kyle Palmieri

MIN
Charlie Coyle
Mathew Dumba
Jason Zucker

FLA
Nick Bjugstad
Drew Shore
Vincent Trocheck

OTT
Mika Zibanejad
Jared Cowen
Cole Schneider

LAK
Tyler Toffoli
Linden Vey
Tanner Pearson

SJS
Matthew Nieto
Matt Tennyson
Tommy Wingles

If we can't get a substantial return for a package including Callahan, then is it worth it to simply make him a cap casualty.
You and I think very much alike in terms of value. Enjoyed reading your first post. Agree across the board to be frank.

I think that if he will not sign by the deadline, then he should be moved. It hurts to say it, but him walking for nothing would be a huge setback to the franchise. Much in the vein Bouwmeester was to Florida.

The value you present are pinpoint to what I would ask for from those organizations. Will copy and paste some if these teams were the dance partner in terms of prospects.


SJS
Matthew Nieto
Matt Tennyson
Tommy Wingles

MIN
Charlie Coyle
Mathew Dumba
Jason Zucker

Tyler Groavac is another one in Minny worth looking at.


CHI
Adam Clendening
Phillipe Danault
Ryan Hartman

BUF
Zemgus Girgensons
Marcus Foligno
Mark Psyk


ANA
Devante Smith Pelley
Emerson Etem
Kyle Palmieri

OTT
Mika Zibanejad
Mark Stone
Cody Ceci

Not many centers there. The Rangers need a top 6 center in the system. I think Lindberg slots in nicely as a 3rd line center. Miller I have I hopes for, but I don't know if the offense will translate into a 50-60 pt center.

I view Miller as athletically on par with McD and Kreider without the speed. I get the sense they move him, and they will want an NHL player in return.

What if Cally grabs a return on those prospects and signs back with the Rangers, getting his C back? Stuff of fantasy maybe, but I can totally be on board with a 7x5.8 plus a ton of prospects.

Wink wink, nudge nudge.

Gets to play for the cup this year. Sets up franchise to compete next year and comes back as a hero. Would Callahan do that for the team?

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01-30-2014, 11:19 PM
  #893
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Thought about it, but that would be really foolish on his part.

Rangers would take that and run with it.

Callahan could potentially lose well over 40 million by doing that.
Unless it's a career ending injury, or he has an abysmal season, I don't think he would lose anywhere near that much.

I realize there's not a huge incentive for him, but there could be some. It's just a scenario that ran through my mind that wouldn't shock me.

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01-30-2014, 11:27 PM
  #894
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Callahan for Brandon Pirri and a 2nd. Girardi for Vatenen/Etem and a 3rd. Pick turns into a first if either player is resigned.

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01-30-2014, 11:28 PM
  #895
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You and I think very much alike in terms of value. Enjoyed reading your first post. Agree across the board to be frank.

I think that if he will not sign by the deadline, then he should be moved. It hurts to say it, but him walking for nothing would be a huge setback to the franchise. Much in the vein Bouwmeester was to Florida.

The value you present are pinpoint to what I would ask for from those organizations. Will copy and paste some if these teams were the dance partner in terms of prospects.


SJS
Matthew Nieto
Matt Tennyson
Tommy Wingles

MIN
Charlie Coyle
Mathew Dumba
Jason Zucker

Tyler Groavac is another one in Minny worth looking at.


CHI
Adam Clendening
Phillipe Danault
Ryan Hartman

BUF
Zemgus Girgensons
Marcus Foligno
Mark Psyk


ANA
Devante Smith Pelley
Emerson Etem
Kyle Palmieri

OTT
Mika Zibanejad
Mark Stone
Cody Ceci

Not many centers there. The Rangers need a top 6 center in the system. I think Lindberg slots in nicely as a 3rd line center. Miller I have I hopes for, but I don't know if the offense will translate into a 50-60 pt center.

I view Miller as athletically on par with McD and Kreider without the speed. I get the sense they move him, and they will want an NHL player in return.

What if Cally grabs a return on those prospects and signs back with the Rangers, getting his C back? Stuff of fantasy maybe, but I can totally be on board with a 7x5.8 plus a ton of prospects.

Wink wink, nudge nudge.

Gets to play for the cup this year. Sets up franchise to compete next year and comes back as a hero. Would Callahan do that for the team?
Thanks.

Regarding Miller, I would include him on the no-trade list based on what we have in the organization. If he tops out as a 3rd line center, that is more then enough, IMO.

You know, i've always wondered why it doesn't happen more often that players get dealt at the deadline and resign with the original team in July. Assuming it wasnt a bad breakup. It would benefit the club long term. Is it considered tampering? It has happened before. But not often.

I agree, we badly need a top 6 center. Preferably a gutsy young leader that plays a tough two-way game.

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01-30-2014, 11:29 PM
  #896
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Unless it's a career ending injury, or he has an abysmal season, I don't think he would lose anywhere near that much.

I realize there's not a huge incentive for him, but there could be some. It's just a scenario that ran through my mind that wouldn't shock me.
There's no way he's going to take that chance.

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01-30-2014, 11:33 PM
  #897
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There's no way he's going to take that chance.
Now that he's a father he probably wants the long term security.

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01-30-2014, 11:38 PM
  #898
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Haha ****. I didn't even think of Grigorenko yesterday when I thought what a potential package from Buffalo might look like.

I was thinking more along the lines of Foligno, Ott, and their 2nd (essentially a 1st).

Grigorenko and Foligno though...
So you'rre arguing we trade one of the most versatile players in about in Rangers history, the best 3rd line forward in the NHL. a 2-time Olympian for a young third liner, approaching ARFA, a 30+ third liner, approaching UFA, and a 2nd round pick in a weak draft (which every draft is for us)?

How 'bout Callahan for overrated Lucic and Boston's 1st?

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01-31-2014, 12:27 AM
  #899
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So you'rre arguing we trade one of the most versatile players in about in Rangers history, the best 3rd line forward in the NHL. a 2-time Olympian for a young third liner, approaching ARFA, a 30+ third liner, approaching UFA, and a 2nd round pick in a weak draft (which every draft is for us)?

How 'bout Callahan for overrated Lucic and Boston's 1st
?
In a perfect world.

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01-31-2014, 12:29 AM
  #900
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I am kind of torn on what I would want for Callahan. On one hand I want to stock up for the future. On the other hand as much as it would kill certain posters here to admin, we are a competitive team to an extent and do need a player who can step in now to replace him.

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