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How do we get better moving forward? No pun intended

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Old
01-30-2014, 01:52 PM
  #26
Persona5
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this is what i've been saying. no one will agree with me. everyone wants offensive talent, me included via FA, the fact is, we have to pay big $$$. and so what, we'll have it. i doubt there will be many complaints when we actually get offensive guys here.

i could definitely see pitches to callahan (if available), moulson, gaborik and stastny.
I still do not understand why we didn't go after Filppula in the offseason instead of Cullen. He is making 5m a year and has 40 points in 53 games and it's not like he isn't a 2-way player either and he is also strong on faceoffs. Had we signed him and maybe Nystrom I think we would be a better team right now...

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01-30-2014, 02:01 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by thecloser View Post
this is what i've been saying. no one will agree with me. everyone wants offensive talent, me included via FA, the fact is, we have to pay big $$$. and so what, we'll have it. i doubt there will be many complaints when we actually get offensive guys here.

i could definitely see pitches to callahan (if available), moulson, gaborik and stastny.
Don't think anybody will dispute we have to overpay for talent, but there's definitely a difference in the extent to which we'd overpay for it. A player like Moulson, 30 goal scorer, one-dimensional, lacks the ability to create his own offense, is overpaid at $6M per, as is a Callahan, but I could see some case to be made that we need to overpay those types of guys to bring them in. $7M-$7.5M per, as you proposed in another thread, would be a poor deal for us. He's not a top-line center, and he's not a forward that can be the focal point of your offense, he doesn't deserve to get paid like one, Nashville premium or no.

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01-30-2014, 02:04 PM
  #28
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I still do not understand why we didn't go after Filppula in the offseason instead of Cullen. He is making 5m a year and has 40 points in 53 games and it's not like he isn't a 2-way player either and he is also strong on faceoffs. Had we signed him and maybe Nystrom I think we would be a better team right now...
I'll admit I hated the possibility of Filppula at that dollar amount...not as much as Stalberg, but still... That said, his production has proven me wrong to this point. C'est la vie.

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01-30-2014, 02:43 PM
  #29
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Why wouldn't we keep Goose around? He's a solid fourth-line center. On the list of concerns about the forwards, he ought to be at the very bottom of the list along with Clune and Nystrom ... IF they're all playing on the fourth line.
Because he is expensive and it is time to plug in Watson unless you plan on him being a top two line center

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01-30-2014, 04:15 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Smashville615 View Post
Because he is expensive and it is time to plug in Watson unless you plan on him being a top two line center
Maybe not a top center, but I think Watson is more projected to be a third-line type center, no? Well, use Cullen as the third-line center next year. Bring Watson up a time or two for injury call-ups. Have him ready to step into the role after next season when Cullen's contract expires.

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01-30-2014, 04:17 PM
  #31
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Ellis will be moved if not now, then in the summer. There's simply too many offensive Dmen on this team. I just don't see Ellis wanting to agree to a new deal knowing how crowded it in Nashville. I'd move him for a forward prospect of equal value.

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01-30-2014, 04:32 PM
  #32
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Because he is expensive and it is time to plug in Watson unless you plan on him being a top two line center
That is more illogical than my arguments. There is nothing we can do with the amount of the contract. All we can do as look at the role each player provides on the team. And Goose is one of the few that is living up to his role. And to insert another young guy that is not ready for the NHL just makes the team worse. Watson was looked at last season and was no where near ready. And looking at his body of work this season is not impressive at the AHL level.

When it comes to the nut cutting there are not many players on this roster that are living up to the role they need to for the team to have success. That's the entire problem. Horni is down, Borque and Wilson are floundering Stalhberg has been a huge disappointment Cullen shows flashes of the player he was when younger then goes invisible again. Nystrom is playing well above what has been expected of him and Spaling is as well. For a great part Maz and even Hutton have had good to great streaks. Leggy and Fish are right in the area they have been in years past.

Before the season I told all of you that it would take career years from each on the roster for this team to be competitive, they have not and they are not. This is a confused team a team that beat the Sharks then gets humiliated but the Flames and the Oil. There is no rhyme nor reason decernable short of Nystrom scoring 4 goals keeping them in the Flames game, im sure theres nobody could have seen that coming.

Now it is important to build the team from the farm but right now the farm is not going to fix this team in a short time. If that is the route we are looking at 5 years to return to the playoffs. To go thru F?A route if you think Goose is overpayed the numbers required to land Vanek and Moulson will cause you to go starke mad. And to do that DP is going to have to shed some salary even with the cap going up. If he does not the team will be in this same situation near the top of the cap this year with little ability to sign help that's needed now.


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Old
01-30-2014, 07:39 PM
  #33
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Attachment 70411

That is more illogical than my arguments. There is nothing we can do with the amount of the contract. All we can do as look at the role each player provides on the team. And Goose is one of the few that is living up to his role. And to insert another young guy that is not ready for the NHL just makes the team worse. Watson was looked at last season and was no where near ready. And looking at his body of work this season is not impressive at the AHL level.

When it comes to the nut cutting there are not many players on this roster that are living up to the role they need to for the team to have success. That's the entire problem. Horni is down, Borque and Wilson are floundering Stalhberg has been a huge disappointment Cullen shows flashes of the player he was when younger then goes invisible again. Nystrom is playing well above what has been expected of him and Spaling is as well. For a great part Maz and even Hutton have had good to great streaks. Leggy and Fish are right in the area they have been in years past.

Before the season I told all of you that it would take career years from each on the roster for this team to be competitive, they have not and they are not. This is a confused team a team that beat the Sharks then gets humiliated but the Flames and the Oil. There is no rhyme nor reason decernable short of Nystrom scoring 4 goals keeping them in the Flames game, im sure theres nobody could have seen that coming.

Now it is important to build the team from the farm but right now the farm is not going to fix this team in a short time. If that is the route we are looking at 5 years to return to the playoffs. To go thru F?A route if you think Goose is overpayed the numbers required to land Vanek and Moulson will cause you to go starke mad. And to do that DP is going to have to shed some salary even with the cap going up. If he does not the team will be in this same situation near the top of the cap this year with little ability to sign help that's needed now.
I believe it is time we start to look at this but I do not know if it would take five years or what, I believe it depends on what we do with Weber and if Rinne wants out. It might hurt in the short term but long term we will be fine.

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Old
01-30-2014, 08:08 PM
  #34
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That is what i mentioned before. I would like Watson and Spaling to compete for the 3C and 4C spot. If that's not going to happen then we need to move forward with something else.

I understand we have to pay players and i am ok with that if it's not for 4th line grinders and "faceoff specialist"

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01-30-2014, 08:16 PM
  #35
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I don't get the mindset that we should keep legwand but trade cullen. If you switched their histories (cullen being the preds 1st pick in franchise history) and legwand being the free agent signing, I think people would say trade legwand keep cullen. We can't continue to have this emotional connection to legwand when moving him is the best move for our franchise at this time. The kind of return that we could get far exceeds what value he brings to our team right now. On top of that, cullen has shown some pretty dynamic chemistry with Smith throughout the season. I would keep those guys together. Yes I know the legwand spaling smith line is playing well right now, but are we really going to be taken seriously if those guys are our top line?
It is hockey sense in why you keep Legwand.

Cullen at 37 is in the last years of his career here. His decline will be faster than Legwand. Legwand still has a couple more years of consistent production left. That is important with the possibility of Fisher retiring after next year. You can't bank on Poile/Fenton/whoever GM is to go and sign scoring centers in the offseason. If They did, then you can deal him. But you see the possibility of after next year our centers being maybe Wilson, Watson, Spaling and Gaustad? Barf. Think we are bad now, wait for that. Throw Legwand in there in a 2-3 line role like now and it is bearable with the talent we have on the wing that hopefully develops.

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01-30-2014, 08:23 PM
  #36
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Obviously, this isn't the year for us, but we might not be as far off as we think. The defense is set, Rinne should be back at 100%. I think we're all counting on Forsberg being an offensive weapon.

I figure there's 3 high upside guys in the draft this year - Bennett, Reinhardt, and Draisaitl.

I'd sell off any asset we can get, collect picks, and take our pick and move up to get one of those guys. They could be very ready very soon.

Go out and buy the top center on the market. If you have to overpay for Grabovksi or Stastny, do it. A scorer on a stupid contract is better than a no-talent guy on a cheap contract.

Wilson-Stastny-Smith
HQ-Bennett/Reinhardt/Draisaitl-Forsberg
Bourque-Fisher-Stalberg
Nystrom-Gaustad-Clune

That could be pretty a pretty decent forward corps to pair with our D.

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01-30-2014, 08:33 PM
  #37
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I'd also argue that Nylander has plenty of upside in this years draft too. But he has much higher potential to bust which is why his draft stock plummeted out of the top 5. I'd much rather try and move up if we get enough assets to do so but I wouldn't be disappointed with him if we got it. At least it would show poile has the guts to not pick the safe 2nd/3rd line upside winger at that point.

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Old
01-30-2014, 09:00 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by predshabs View Post
This is why I am a big fan of moving Weber but only for the right package.
Such as the one I proposed on the NSH-EDM trade proposal on the trade board.


Weber
Stalberg


Hall
2014 1st
Marincin

I also believe it might be easier to get a Vet RHD to sign here than it seems to be to get those elite forwards here.
Such as Niskanen or Girardi.
What has Weber ever done to you? Why do you have such a obsession with shipping him out? Also unless Trotz in traded to Edmonton too, getting young kids that do not play defense is a recipe for disaster. FF is wasting away in an ads uni because Trotz won't use him properly.

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01-30-2014, 11:32 PM
  #39
predshabs
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What has Weber ever done to you? Why do you have such a obsession with shipping him out? Also unless Trotz in traded to Edmonton too, getting young kids that do not play defense is a recipe for disaster. FF is wasting away in an ads uni because Trotz won't use him properly.
It has nothing to do with Weber.
I do not have an obsession with trading him unless it vastly improves our team on the offensive side.
The deal I have mentioned gives us Taylor Hall who is currently 11th in the NHL in Points and Edmonton's 2014 1st which could land us that Potential #1 Center(Sam Reinhart, Sam Bennett, or Leon Draisaitl) and Marincin who is 6-5 and only 21 year old LHD.

I believe it will do Forsberg some good to be in Admirals uniform for now. Just like next year Aberg will probably need a year or two in the minors once he gets here. These type players could be what we are waiting for here in Smashivlle but until we get a #1 Center it will not matter.

We continue to be just good enough to not get those elite draft picks. Last year was our chance and look how luck or the hockey gods or whatever you want to call it treated us we got another stud defenseman in Jones. Now people are calling for us to spend big money on players who may make us a little better but still not fix the long term problem. Yes a Vanek-Statsny-Hornqvist line makes me excited just like everyone else. We need that #1 Center that we are going to have to draft. This year has three that I have mentioned above that will go in the top five. We are going to have to decide to either rebuild this hot mess or to live with mediocre hockey that will contine to land you picks in the 8-16 range.

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01-31-2014, 01:15 AM
  #40
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predshabs, you do. every weber trade you make is for an oilers offensive guy. great, we get it, but right now we're not gonna rely on two 23 y/o and a 19 y/o to anchor our d.

plus, the trades you do post involving weber, should just have weber. if we're trading him, we're not the ones adding anything to it. that's asinine.

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01-31-2014, 01:29 AM
  #41
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Moving Weber would be like those teams that traded Pronger...

You don't trade a player like Weber, imho. You find ways to build around him.

I have HUGE respect for Trotz and I think he is an amazing coach. I also have huge respect that NSH has only had one coach and stuck by him.

That said, it might be time for a new direction. Trotz will go on and be great with another team and some fans will always wish he stayed, but it really might be good to try a new plan.

I loved that my fav player of all time chose Nashville to play for. I have stayed close in my heart with you guys since.

I have been to NSH and it is a wonderful city. I would think UFAs could be attracted to come there. Goalie, assuming he can come back 100%, is set. Great D is a given...just lack fire power or a coach that can find a way to get offense.

Perhaps a new coach and more up-tempo offense would attract UFA forwards and with that D and goalie all should work out just fine.

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01-31-2014, 01:56 AM
  #42
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predshabs, you do. every weber trade you make is for an oilers offensive guy. great, we get it, but right now we're not gonna rely on two 23 y/o and a 19 y/o to anchor our d.

plus, the trades you do post involving weber, should just have weber. if we're trading him, we're not the ones adding anything to it. that's asinine.
That is not true I have also done one with Carolina.

Asinine?????????????

I added Stalberg in this one to make room for Hall on the left side plus he is not what Poile was hoping for in an Erat replacement plus we could spend that money better elsewhere.


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01-31-2014, 02:14 AM
  #43
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What makes everyone think we are going to attract top notch free agents all of a sudden?

As of now Cap geek has us having $23,691,190 Needing to sign Ekholm,Ellis, Del Zotto, Spaling, Beck.

I get tired of saying this but I will continue to say this until it happens. WE WILL NEVER COMPETE FOR THE CUP UNTIL WE GET A #1 CENTER

So how are we going to address that? I want to here some people answer this question.
We will have to draft one but how are we going to do that if we continue to be mediocre?

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01-31-2014, 07:02 AM
  #44
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What makes everyone think we are going to attract top notch free agents all of a sudden?

As of now Cap geek has us having $23,691,190 Needing to sign Ekholm,Ellis, Del Zotto, Spaling, Beck.

I get tired of saying this but I will continue to say this until it happens. WE WILL NEVER COMPETE FOR THE CUP UNTIL WE GET A #1 CENTER

So how are we going to address that? I want to here some people answer this question.
We will have to draft one but how are we going to do that if we continue to be mediocre?
not true. You generally need 2 superstars to win a cup. We have that. We need consistency.

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01-31-2014, 07:44 AM
  #45
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Neither of them are forwards, token. We need top 3 forwards. Look at the top teams, toews and Kane, Crosby and Malkin, perry and getlaf, etc. the only team I don't see having superstar forwRds is boston but they have enough talent throughout their line up to make up for that. We don't. A number 1 center, a true #1 would make a difference here for sure.

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01-31-2014, 08:04 AM
  #46
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I tend to agree that we do need a true #1 center pretty badly, if for no other reason it puts the centers you do have where they need to be.

Fisher moves down to 2nd
Legwand moves down to 3rd
Gaustad/Spaling on the 4th

This team looks much better in that situation, the big question is where you going to get it. Whatever you do you are probably going to have to overpay or lose a talented piece to get it.

I really like the defense we have set up, and if Rinne is back and in form most nights you aren't going to need to win 5-4. However, you aren't winning a cup, as we have seen, winning 1-0 or 2-1 every night either.

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01-31-2014, 09:01 AM
  #47
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Prying a true 1C from a team is difficult. Usually if a 1C hits F/A there on the down side of there career or looking for a cup. The Oil trade proposals make the most sense for us since there polar opposites of the Preds. They have an abundance of talented forwards and we have the blueliners. The key would be an equitable trade one of our failure forwards and Ellis is not going to get Hall, Yak. RNH nor is Eberle and there scraps gonna get them Weber, Josi or Jones. There is a logical trade to help both teams there if the GM's want to work it out.

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01-31-2014, 11:03 AM
  #48
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Here's my question. People say we have plenty if not extra 'D' but I don't understand this.

Yes we have highly skilled "D" but who replaces a D-man who is traded? Do we sign a mediocre player and downgrade the "D"? We don't really have much in the pipeline coming up.

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01-31-2014, 11:22 AM
  #49
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Here's my question. People say we have plenty if not extra 'D' but I don't understand this.

Yes we have highly skilled "D" but who replaces a D-man who is traded? Do we sign a mediocre player and downgrade the "D"? We don't really have much in the pipeline coming up.
I certainly wouldn't say we "have plenty of extra D", but if we truly want to upgrade our offense via trade, it'll have to be at the sacrifice of some D. Nobody on the offensive side of the puck would net us a great return.

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01-31-2014, 11:57 AM
  #50
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We pretty much have to hope the Avs do not re-sign Stastny, Poile decides to go after him hard core in free agency, and Stastny chooses the Predators as the team he wants to sign with this offseason. This really is the only short term fix to our number one center issue right now. Every other option is long term. As much as I would love to see this happen it simply won't...

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