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How do we get better moving forward? No pun intended

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Old
01-31-2014, 12:03 PM
  #51
AtlantaWhaler
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The issue with hoping for free agency is that every team gets a considerable amount of cap space this summer. We're going to be contending with every team.

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01-31-2014, 12:06 PM
  #52
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per mynhltraderumors.com

Frank Provenzano of ESPN: Potential Sellers: Nashville Predators - David Legwand, Matt Cullen, Colin Wilson and Ryan Ellis. Washington Capitals - Troy Brouwer, Joel Ward, Jason Chimera, Eric Fehr and Martin Erat. Winnipeg Jets - Dustin Byfuglien, Evander Kane, Olli Jokinen and Devin Setoguchi. Potential Buyers: Tampa Bay Lightning - roster depth. Colorado Avalanche - Top-four defenseman. St. Louis Blues - Stanley Cup caliber goalie.


just thought it kind of interesting to see wilson and ellis's names pop up in the media. thought it was kind of just a fan, boards name that was being thrown out there. but who knows, i think ellis should net a good return.

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01-31-2014, 12:07 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by hockey diva View Post
Neither of them are forwards, token. We need top 3 forwards. Look at the top teams, toews and Kane, Crosby and Malkin, perry and getlaf, etc. the only team I don't see having superstar forwRds is boston but they have enough talent throughout their line up to make up for that. We don't. A number 1 center, a true #1 would make a difference here for sure.
Boston has two centers that would be our number one and by all accounts Bergeron is an elite center in the league. Columbus is probably the only team out there that is in the playoffs that does not have an elite number one center and the Predators are only 2 points behind them.

the difference between us and the playoffs this season is the loss of our elite goalie. We are also going through some growing pains on D as we are very inexperienced there. Those two combined spell doom for any team and yet we have held on to hope at a playoff spot as unlikely as it may be. We do need more scoring but it would not solve everything like many would lead you to believe...

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01-31-2014, 12:08 PM
  #54
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That is not true I have also done one with Carolina.

Asinine?????????????

I added Stalberg in this one to make room for Hall on the left side plus he is not what Poile was hoping for in an Erat replacement plus we could spend that money better elsewhere.
asinine.

https://www.google.com/search?q=defi...sm=93&ie=UTF-8

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01-31-2014, 12:11 PM
  #55
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Boston has two centers that would be our number one and by all accounts Bergeron is an elite center in the league. Columbus is probably the only team out there that is in the playoffs that does not have an elite number one center and the Predators are only 2 points behind them.

the difference between us and the playoffs this season is the loss of our elite goalie. We are also going through some growing pains on D as we are very inexperienced there. Those two combined spell doom for any team and yet we have held on to hope at a playoff spot as unlikely as it may be. We do need more scoring but it would not solve everything like many would lead you to believe...
i haven't taken the time to look at what our gpg is, but it has to be higher than last year. i feel like almost every other game we're scoring between 3-5 goals. it's crazy. now we win games 5-4 or lose 5-1, with rinne we win 2-1, 3-1, 1-0, and it just shows how great he is. I truly believe if we had rinne this season we'd be in the race. hopefully we can continue growing in the goals for column when rinne returns, hopefully that is next year.

i don't want to rush him.

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01-31-2014, 12:33 PM
  #56
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i haven't taken the time to look at what our gpg is, but it has to be higher than last year. i feel like almost every other game we're scoring between 3-5 goals. it's crazy. now we win games 5-4 or lose 5-1, with rinne we win 2-1, 3-1, 1-0, and it just shows how great he is. I truly believe if we had rinne this season we'd be in the race. hopefully we can continue growing in the goals for column when rinne returns, hopefully that is next year.

i don't want to rush him.
2.46 goals per game (23rd in the league) .... 2.91 goals allowed per game (t-22nd worst in the league).

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01-31-2014, 01:14 PM
  #57
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2.46 goals per game (23rd in the league) .... 2.91 goals allowed per game (t-22nd worst in the league).
The difference between those two numbers is what is really alarming. If you are 23rd in the league in scoring you better be in the top 10 in goals against or you will not fair well. Our offense has been inproving while our d and mainly goaltending has been very inconsistant all season.

In October we allowed 2.692 goals per game with Rinne playing 9 of those 13 games. We were scoring 2 goals a game in that stretch. The team was 6-5-2.

In November we allowed 2.643 goals per game. We scored 2.5 goals per game. The team was 7-6-1.

In December we allowed 3.231 goals per game. We scored 2.538 goals per game. The team was 5-7-1.

In January so far only missing tonight game against the Devils we have allowed 2.933 goals per game. We have scored 2.667 goals per game. The team is 6-5-4 so far this month.

As you can see December was a really bad month for our D/Goalies. Our offense has steadily improved all season long. Scoring almost 2.7 goals per game is solid and that is how the team has performed recently. We just need to get that goals against number down at or below how it was at the start of the season. That 2.7 goals per game number would put us right around 15th in the league right now. Pulling our goals against to around what it was for the first two months of the year would also put us around the 15th ranking in the league. We would more than likely be in the playoffs with those nuymbers over the entire year. The major question though is would we be cup contenders? I would say no.

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01-31-2014, 01:24 PM
  #58
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[QUOTE=thecloser;79110301]per mynhltraderumors.com

Frank Provenzano of ESPN: Potential Sellers: Nashville Predators - David Legwand, Matt Cullen, Colin Wilson and Ryan Ellis. Washington Capitals - Troy Brouwer, Joel Ward, Jason Chimera, Eric Fehr and Martin Erat. Winnipeg Jets - Dustin Byfuglien, Evander Kane, Olli Jokinen and Devin Setoguchi. Potential Buyers: Tampa Bay Lightning - roster depth. Colorado Avalanche - Top-four defenseman. St. Louis Blues - Stanley Cup caliber goalie.


just thought it kind of interesting to see wilson and ellis's names pop up in the media. thought it was kind of just a fan, boards name that was being thrown out there. but who knows, i think ellis should net a good return.[/QUOTE/]

They are probably reading the boards lol. Wilson was just being discussed on here the past couple of days. Not sure on Ellis I think he has improved a ton this year and even knocked Klein out of some minutes of playing time. I wonder if his play is due to him knowing the Pred's are going to move him and have worked out an agreement to move him to a team of his choice if a deal can be worked out.

On the Weber talk. It is getting really silly with all the trade proposals. Weber is the face of the Pred's and we need to build around him. End of story. Unless he is going to command a Stamkos or Crosby type. That is not going to happen so the Pred's need to build around one of the two legit superstars we have.

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01-31-2014, 03:01 PM
  #59
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Thanks for that!

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01-31-2014, 03:04 PM
  #60
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We pretty much have to hope the Avs do not re-sign Stastny, Poile decides to go after him hard core in free agency, and Stastny chooses the Predators as the team he wants to sign with this offseason. This really is the only short term fix to our number one center issue right now. Every other option is long term. As much as I would love to see this happen it simply won't...
I like Statsny alot. Would not mind him here but still not #1 Center we need going forward.

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01-31-2014, 03:18 PM
  #61
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I like Statsny alot. Would not mind him here but still not #1 Center we need going forward.
He's about the closest we can expect to get to one for the time being though, and would definitely fill the role better than Fisher, Legwand, or Cullen.

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01-31-2014, 03:37 PM
  #62
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He's about the closest we can expect to get to one for the time being though, and would definitely fill the role better than Fisher, Legwand, or Cullen.
Our chase for an elite center has taken on White Whale proportions.
If you want a #1 center, we'll have to draft one. Because as much as we value Shea Weber, the one thing that's more valuable than a franchise D-man is an elite #1 center.

Stastny compares favorably scoring wise to Bergeron in Boston. In fact, I think his stats this year are very similar to Kopitar. I don't think we necessarily need a Malkin/Crosby/Kopitar though.

We do need to generate more offense. Stastny is probably the only center out there that will likely make it to UFA and could reliably be counted on to score here (see Grabovski).

I'd probably offer Stastny literally anything we could afford under the cap. I'd make sure that if he turns us down, he's leaving money on the table. Yes, we'll have to overpay. But again - I don't care. My ticket prices aren't going down one way or the other. When we get shutout or score 1 goal and lose, I don't console myself with the "well, at least we saved some money" line.

I'd also do absolutely anything we could to get a guy like Draisaitl, Bennett, or Reinhart - which means we'll need to get into the top 4-5. If Poile does some good work at the trade deadline, we could have enough assets to move into that range.

A couple of moves like that could transform the forward corps pretty quickly, and won't open up a gigantic hole (like if we traded Josi).

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01-31-2014, 03:40 PM
  #63
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He's about the closest we can expect to get to one for the time being though, and would definitely fill the role better than Fisher, Legwand, or Cullen.
I agree with that. I just believe Colorado will re-sign what they have unless Statsny just wants out. Ryan O'Reilly might be who they trade and re-sign Statsny but who knows.

We need someone know but how are we going to address this going forward?
We are going to have to draft that #1 Center? Maybe we get a little luck and win the draft lottery who knows?

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01-31-2014, 03:45 PM
  #64
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Our chase for an elite center has taken on White Whale proportions.
If you want a #1 center, we'll have to draft one. Because as much as we value Shea Weber, the one thing that's more valuable than a franchise D-man is an elite #1 center.

Stastny compares favorably scoring wise to Bergeron in Boston. In fact, I think his stats this year are very similar to Kopitar. I don't think we necessarily need a Malkin/Crosby/Kopitar though.

We do need to generate more offense. Stastny is probably the only center out there that will likely make it to UFA and could reliably be counted on to score here (see Grabovski).

I'd probably offer Stastny literally anything we could afford under the cap. I'd make sure that if he turns us down, he's leaving money on the table. Yes, we'll have to overpay. But again - I don't care. My ticket prices aren't going down one way or the other. When we get shutout or score 1 goal and lose, I don't console myself with the "well, at least we saved some money" line.

I'd also do absolutely anything we could to get a guy like Draisaitl, Bennett, or Reinhart - which means we'll need to get into the top 4-5. If Poile does some good work at the trade deadline, we could have enough assets to move into that range.

A couple of moves like that could transform the forward corps pretty quickly, and won't open up a gigantic hole (like if we traded Josi).
Draisaitl, Bennett, or Reinhart.
Each one of these guys would be great here.
The more I see Draisaitl the more I like him he has size and skill.
Bennett stock is going up everytime I hear his name mentioned.
Reinhart we all know will be great.

I hope we just get one of them.

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01-31-2014, 04:09 PM
  #65
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I agree with that. I just believe Colorado will re-sign what they have unless Statsny just wants out. Ryan O'Reilly might be who they trade and re-sign Statsny but who knows.

We need someone know but how are we going to address this going forward?
We are going to have to draft that #1 Center? Maybe we get a little luck and win the draft lottery who knows?
Probably left to hoping that we're able to draft one. I don't really have confidence in us being able to outbid for a Stastny (I agree that him or O'Reilly are liable to move on at some point) as a UFA, even if we do offer the right contract. Just not optimistic about our chances of getting that piece. That said, if we can't land the key center piece, then we need to start making up for it with wingers, one way or another.

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01-31-2014, 04:45 PM
  #66
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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/junio...concentration/

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=699921

http://thehockeywriters.com/the-next...p-10-rankings/


Just a start of the background for the draft, its no sure thing that any help will be gained there. Average is the most optimistic thing said about this draft and there are a number of reports calling it weak. The top 4 players all considered for the midterm #1. Now most all the predictions are made by Canadian wiriters and scouts and we know they never skew anything. But just as with last years writ-ups the top 4 can do no wrong. I did read on article that proclaimed only Reinhart had a chance to jump right into the NHL roster, now the midterm has him at 4.

Bottom line the risk is really high this year and to move up to a top 3 pick that its going to take to get one of these guys is going to cost a decent roster player our 1st and likely a 2nd.

Someone mentioned Nylander in another post I would like to see this guy our selection as well. one reason is that he is not under the gleaming eyes of the Canadian media which neglect players playing in Europe. The Preds have had luck drafting Euros in the past and any evaluations on the guy are going to be undervalued IMO. Any pick we get is most likely going to need time to develop before hitting the Preds roster.

For giggles I looked at the hockey writers F/A valuation and if DP can't land Stasny then we will continue to be in need of a 1C or anything that resembles one.

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01-31-2014, 06:17 PM
  #67
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I think average is pretty spot on for this draft honestly. I just think it isn't getting the usual media or fan hype because it's wedged between two of the best draft classes in quite a while. If we manage to move up in the draft, I'd hope it'd be for our early to mid 1st+Ryan Ellis (or someone similar, maybe spaling type). I think it's a possibility if we finish between 6-8 as Edmonton/Calgary both need defense and one of them if not both will miss out on Ekbald depending on how the lottery goes so they might consider trading down to try and pick up Hayden Fleury in the 6-10 spot if there's a decent offer. I'd still like to see us try and move legwand(if he isn't willing to resign) or cullen for a mid to late first and draft Nylander/Perlini/McCann and Ho-Sang(another high risk reward type fwd) with a mid to late first. Unless Weber or Rinne can pull a Suter and convince a highly gifted offensive talent to come to us during free agency I don't really see the team righting the ship outside of trades/the draft.

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01-31-2014, 08:43 PM
  #68
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It has nothing to do with Weber.
I do not have an obsession with trading him unless it vastly improves our team on the offensive side.
The deal I have mentioned gives us Taylor Hall who is currently 11th in the NHL in Points and Edmonton's 2014 1st which could land us that Potential #1 Center(Sam Reinhart, Sam Bennett, or Leon Draisaitl) and Marincin who is 6-5 and only 21 year old LHD.

I believe it will do Forsberg some good to be in Admirals uniform for now. Just like next year Aberg will probably need a year or two in the minors once he gets here. These type players could be what we are waiting for here in Smashivlle but until we get a #1 Center it will not matter.

We continue to be just good enough to not get those elite draft picks. Last year was our chance and look how luck or the hockey gods or whatever you want to call it treated us we got another stud defenseman in Jones. Now people are calling for us to spend big money on players who may make us a little better but still not fix the long term problem. Yes a Vanek-Statsny-Hornqvist line makes me excited just like everyone else. We need that #1 Center that we are going to have to draft. This year has three that I have mentioned above that will go in the top five. We are going to have to decide to either rebuild this hot mess or to live with mediocre hockey that will contine to land you picks in the 8-16 range.
Edmonton with all that talent is the worst team in the Western Conference. They have scored 8 more goals than the Predators with what on paper is astronomicaly more talent. The Predators have also played an entire season without a Veznia finalist Goalie and a defensive core except Weber that is younger than some College teams. What is appealing about becoming the Oilers? Taylor Hall is not worth Weber, the 1st round pick could become a bust (as the great Hugh Durham once said "potential means you haven't ever done anything"), and Marincin is NOT a replacement for Weber. Also this market is not going to accept the type of rebuilding that the Oilers are having, Weber is the freaking face of the franchise, he sells tickets. Also learn from history how did St. Louis do after trading Pronger to Edmonton?


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01-31-2014, 09:35 PM
  #69
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Hopefully tonight ends the let's dump Weber threads!!!

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01-31-2014, 10:28 PM
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those guys won't even make it to free agency... I wish they would but nope.
Vanek's situation is up in the air and still questionable. Stastny is apparently asking for a lot on a team with a lot of centers. Gaborik doesn't seem to be a fit here.

I wouldn't write off the chances of them making it to UFA, but at the same time I wouldn't pin all my team improvement hopes on them either.

* * *
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Also unless Trotz in traded to Edmonton too, getting young kids that do not play defense is a recipe for disaster.
FTFY. That lack of defensive play is why Edmonton is so g-dawful.

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Boston has two centers that would be our number one and by all accounts Bergeron is an elite center in the league. Columbus is probably the only team out there that is in the playoffs that does not have an elite number one center and the Predators are only 2 points behind them.
I take it you haven't seen how Ryan Johansen is playing of late.

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01-31-2014, 11:19 PM
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Edmonton with all that talent is the worst team in the Western Conference. They have scored 8 more goals than the Predators with what on paper is astronomicaly more talent. The Predators have also played an entire season without a Veznia finalist Goalie and a defensive core except Weber that is younger than some College teams. What is appealing about becoming the Oilers? Taylor Hall is not worth Weber, the 1st round pick could become a bust (as the great Hugh Durham once said "potential means you haven't ever done anything"), and Marincin is NOT a replacement for Weber. Also this market is not going to accept the type of rebuilding that the Oilers are having, Weber is the freaking face of the franchise, he sells tickets. Also learn from history how did St. Louis do after trading Pronger to Edmonton?
Yes but Edmonton has allowed 22 more goals than we have as well.
We have actually only played a few games with a defensive core younger than some college teams, Klein has played most of the year.
Taylor Hall 11th in NHL in points. I do not need to say anything else.
Drafting players is always a game of chance but getting a top three pick normally works out.
I did not say anything about Marincin being a replacement for Weber. Jones is our replacement for Weber. Marincin is just a very good young player.
I do not get the argument that we would be rebuilding like the Oilers. We have Josi and Jones who are very very good along with Del Zotto and Ellis who are doing pretty good. Edmonton has no defense. We still would have Rinne. Edmonton might have a decent goalie in Scrivens now but he is not Rinne. We may or may not trade Weber but saying things like Hall is not worth Weber is a little ,how did you say it, asinine.
Weber is GREAT. I bought my son a Weber Jersey, so he would be upset. I for one am not like other people around here, I believe if he is a Predator next year he will retire a Predator.

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01-31-2014, 11:26 PM
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Neither of them are forwards, token. We need top 3 forwards. Look at the top teams, toews and Kane, Crosby and Malkin, perry and getlaf, etc. the only team I don't see having superstar forwRds is boston but they have enough talent throughout their line up to make up for that. We don't. A number 1 center, a true #1 would make a difference here for sure.
I am not saying it wouldn't make a difference. It would. Everyone is hung up on a center, I am not. I just want 2-3 60 point forwards to develop, no matter their position. We have guys with the potential, and most of them are still young, even though they have played a bunch coming up. I tend to hope that the fruits to the labor of watching them develop is coming


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01-31-2014, 11:35 PM
  #73
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I am not saying it wouldn't make a difference. It would. Everyone is hung up on a center, I am not. I just want 2-3 0 point forwards to develop, no matter their position. We have guys with the potential, and most of them are still young, even though they have played a bunch coming up. I tend to hope that the fruits to the labor of watching them develop is coming
Why not? Look at Boston,Anahiem,LA,Chicago,Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh ......
They have something we do not. #1 Center and what else

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01-31-2014, 11:59 PM
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Why not? Look at Boston,Anahiem,LA,Chicago,Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh ......
They have something we do not. #1 Center and what else
for starters....in 07, Andy McDonald was Anaheims big bad number one center. They won because of that worthless dman Chris Pronger and his worthless aging sidekick scott neidermeyer.

Boston--Bergeron would be a number once center here....and his numbers would loo like David Legwands playing with Nick Spaling, Eric Nystrom or whatever other grinder du jour we have.

LA, Chicago and Pitt, yes. they have number one centers. LA also had 2 superstars in Kopitar and Doughty and Carter to an extent with Quick coming on. Pittsburg had 2 superstars as well with 87 and 71, with Staal and Fleury as very very very good players. Chicago had stars everywhere.

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02-01-2014, 02:37 AM
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for starters....in 07, Andy McDonald was Anaheims big bad number one center. They won because of that worthless dman Chris Pronger and his worthless aging sidekick scott neidermeyer.

Boston--Bergeron would be a number once center here....and his numbers would loo like David Legwands playing with Nick Spaling, Eric Nystrom or whatever other grinder du jour we have.

LA, Chicago and Pitt, yes. they have number one centers. LA also had 2 superstars in Kopitar and Doughty and Carter to an extent with Quick coming on. Pittsburg had 2 superstars as well with 87 and 71, with Staal and Fleury as very very very good players. Chicago had stars everywhere.
You might need to go back and check the stats of players from that 06-07 Anahiem team.
McDonald had 78pts as Center.
Getzlaf had 58pt as Center.
Perry had 44pts.
Selanne had 94pts.
Kunitz had 60pts.
Penner had 45pts.
Think about that and having Pronger and Niedermayer.

If We could get a #1 Center and a top three LW. We would be fine.
This is just an example.
Vanek-Statsny-Hornqvist
Forsberg-Wilson-Smith
Beck-Fisher-Nystrom
Clune-Gaustad-Spaling

If we could sign Vanek and Statsny and get a solid young Center in the draft either this year or next who we can develop into our future #1 Center it would be Ideal. That way we take care of now and the future.

Boston is a well balanced team that I believe Poile was trying to build here but the pieces he picked are not cutting it.

Look down this list and you will see what I am talking about. Seems just about every team in the NHL is set at #1 Center but we are no where close.
Anaheim-Getzlaf
Boston-Bergeron/Krejci
Buffalo-they hope Hodgson but probably will draft one this year.
Calgary-Hudler as of now will be Monohan
Carolina-Eric Staal
Chicago-Toews
Colorado-Duchene/MacKinnon
Columbus-Johansen
Dallas-Seguin
Detroit-Datsyuk
Edmonton-RNH
Florida-Barkov
LA-Kopitar
Minnesota-Parise
Montreal-Plekanec
Nashville- Legwand
NYI-Tavares
NYR-Stepan
Ottawa-Spezza/Turris
Philadelphia-Giroux
Phoenix-Riberio/Hanzel
Pittsburgh-Crosby
San Jose-Thornton/Pavelski
St. Louis-Oshie
Tampa Bay-Stamkos
Toronto-Kadri/Bozak
Vancouver-H. Sedin/Kesler
Washington-Backstrom
Winnipeg-Little

A True #1 Center could go along way for Hornqvist,Wilson,Smith and Forsberg.

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