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Old
01-31-2014, 10:09 PM
  #76
101st_fan
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Originally Posted by Montross View Post
Yeah whatever. He has 25 points in 25 games. Leads all D in goals. If this is Weber good one out of four months I will take it the rest of his career here.
You sure left off a huge chunk at the beginning of the season in your stat citation. Telling of the basis you have to support the position that Weber has played well all season long ... just as absent as his early season numbers.

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01-31-2014, 10:19 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
Fair or not, Weber will get a bump from the Olympics if he has a big tournament. As bad as the Preds have been this year, it could be the year he finally wins it.
He'd have to have a huge tournament then follow up with a strong March and April that more closely resembles his January play than his October through December play. A minus player who is only two goals ahead of other defenders while far behind in assists and on a small market team is not going to win. Only three minus players have ever won ... he has a long way to go to reach even. He's only two goals ahead of the nearest blueliner, twenty two assists behind Keith and ten points back. As I stated earlier, he needs to continue his January play throughout the rest of the season to earn a place in the discussion ... his early play was not enough to get him into it.

Sadly, games like tonight remain the exception from him over the first 56 games of the season. He has 26 games remaining that determine his chances. If they look like the past 16, he and the team benefit. If they look like the first 40 games the team played, heaven help us.

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01-31-2014, 10:20 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
You sure left off a huge chunk at the beginning of the season in your stat citation. Telling of the basis you have to support the position that Weber has played well all season long ... just as absent as his early season numbers.

Isn't this how most of his seasons are though? Start off kinda slow then as the season goes, he gets warm, then hot.

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01-31-2014, 10:36 PM
  #79
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Uh oh. Weber was only even on plus minus tonight. He clearly isn't on top of his game. I mean look how bad he looked on the Devils first goal.

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01-31-2014, 10:45 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
He was good ... not damn good ... in October through December. He picked up his game after Christmas. All of his early numbers were on the PP. Two ES goals in the first three months, one an empty netter .... less effective in three months than he was tonight alone. When he plays like he has throughout January ... and highlighted tonight ... he's elite. When he plays as he did Oct-Dec, he's vastly overpaid and underperforming with no logical basis for inclusion in Norris discussion. Being a fan favorite and face of our franchise does not mean he performed as needed or hoped all season long nor was his early play worthy of league award talk.
I respect your opinions but we will just have to agree to disagree. And it is a fact that you are in the vast minority here- you would be hard pressed to find any knowledgeable hockey people who would agree with anything you said above. And are you really using number of even strength goals as a basis for proving your theory?? As many others have pointed out, so much of what he does does NOT show up on the scoresheet. Just take him out of the lineup and see what happens to our team.....

Trotz tonight: "Weber is having the best year of his career"

I am sure Trotz haters will just dismiss anything he says, but regardless of how you feel about him, he knows more about hockey than ANYONE on this board, especially defensive hockey.

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01-31-2014, 10:55 PM
  #81
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Nice of the jets to help us out and beat Vancouver tonight. How we are 2 games above 500 with a goal diff of -29 is mind boggling. It just says when we are bad we are really bad and when we win it is by 1 goal. That is why the only stat that matters is win/loss and points.

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01-31-2014, 11:00 PM
  #82
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A bit of a roller coaster tonight. The second period is our nemesis. Two horrible goals let in. And somehow we tie it up and win in OT.

Wilson should have been moved to center a long time ago.

Will be in St. Louis tomorrow with Dodgie (Preds boards). Hope no beer gets dumped on us.

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01-31-2014, 11:01 PM
  #83
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Woo hell of a game; massive mood swing after Leggy got the goal.

Also GCL tape delay really messes with you sometimes. I was watching on GCL and you can tell when a game will end by how much of the bar is left. So, nearing end of the third, bar almost at end, figure we are going to lose. Leggy ties it so that means someone is going to score relatively quickly in OT. Was looking good at the start then Ryder got the breakaway, bar has like no space left, and I was positive it was over. Hutton save, Preds score the next possession, and mind = blown.

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01-31-2014, 11:04 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
He'd have to have a huge tournament then follow up with a strong March and April that more closely resembles his January play than his October through December play. A minus player who is only two goals ahead of other defenders while far behind in assists and on a small market team is not going to win. Only three minus players have ever won ... he has a long way to go to reach even. He's only two goals ahead of the nearest blueliner, twenty two assists behind Keith and ten points back. As I stated earlier, he needs to continue his January play throughout the rest of the season to earn a place in the discussion ... his early play was not enough to get him into it.

Sadly, games like tonight remain the exception from him over the first 56 games of the season. He has 26 games remaining that determine his chances. If they look like the past 16, he and the team benefit. If they look like the first 40 games the team played, heaven help us.
I think the addition of Del Zotto and the return of Pekka will allow Weber to keep improving hit statistics. Their transition game seems improved with the addition of Del Zotto, another PMD. And most would expect Pekka to stop at least one of the two goals that Hutton allowed tonight. Remember Weber started the season with a rookie when Josi was concussed. Then Pekka's infection resulted in goalie roulette. Whether Weber continues at a point per game the remainder of the season I can't say. But I think his numbers will be better with Pekka's return and a more offensive-minded 2nd defense pair.

Concerning the Olympics, I don't think Weber has to rip the puck through the back of the net again to gain a little traction for the Norris. Playing solid in big minutes in Sochi will make up for the small market handicap. He doesn't have to be a superhero like he was four years ago. He just has to perform as expected, like he does most nights against the best players in the NHL. If Canada makes it to the Gold medal game, he'll be heralded as one of the best players in the world. The North American press will love him.

I think the Norris is like the Heisman. You need the stats to be considered a finalist. But the winner is debated more subjectively.

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01-31-2014, 11:09 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by INDhockeyfan View Post
Nice of the jets to help us out and beat Vancouver tonight. How we are 2 games above 500 with a goal diff of -29 is mind boggling. It just says when we are bad we are really bad and when we win it is by 1 goal. That is why the only stat that matters is win/loss and points.
When you play the majority of the season with AHL goalies that give up 1-2 softies each game, it shouldn't shock anyone. You can't discount that we've had horrible goaltending most of the season. We won tonight, but Hutton gave up two goals that average NHL caliber goalies stop.

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01-31-2014, 11:17 PM
  #86
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Really, when you get right down to it, how in the heck DO we have the record we have right now??

If you had told me in October:

that we would lose Pekka for most of the season and juggle two minor league level goaltenders, our offense would continue to be near the bottom of the league, and our team defense/goals allowed would also be near the bottom of the league-

I would have guessed we would have a record like Edmonton or Buffalo.

I would love to see where we would be right now had Pekka not gone down- we would almost certainly be solidly in the playoffs right now.

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01-31-2014, 11:28 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by drwpreds View Post
I respect your opinions but we will just have to agree to disagree. And it is a fact that you are in the vast minority here- you would be hard pressed to find any knowledgeable hockey people who would agree with anything you said above. And are you really using number of even strength goals as a basis for proving your theory?? As many others have pointed out, so much of what he does does NOT show up on the scoresheet. Just take him out of the lineup and see what happens to our team.....

Trotz tonight: "Weber is having the best year of his career"

I am sure Trotz haters will just dismiss anything he says, but regardless of how you feel about him, he knows more about hockey than ANYONE on this board, especially defensive hockey.
It never ceases to amaze me how Trotz is universally dismissed here until he praises a fan favorite in the midst of a good month, then he's quoted often. Weber's January is significantly anomalous compared to the first three months ... an over .4 point per game difference in January compared to Oct - Dec.

6g (4ES), 10a (7ES), +3 in January (16 games) .... 9g (2ES, one of which was EN), 13a (6ES), -13 Oct-Dec (37 games played). A point per game is unsustainable ... his 5on5 play (the majority of every game) through the first three months was unacceptable. I'm not sorry for expecting him to live up to past demonstrated performance, his contract, and the letter on the front of his jersey.

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01-31-2014, 11:29 PM
  #88
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Now ,would be a good time for the forwards to score.

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01-31-2014, 11:30 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey diva View Post
A bit of a roller coaster tonight. The second period is our nemesis. Two horrible goals let in. And somehow we tie it up and win in OT.

Wilson should have been moved to center a long time ago.

Will be in St. Louis tomorrow with Dodgie (Preds boards). Hope no beer gets dumped on us.
What section? I'll be front row, 331. Still haven't decided on a jersey thanks to the Klein trade.

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01-31-2014, 11:38 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
It never ceases to amaze me how Trotz is universally dismissed here until he praises a fan favorite in the midst of a good month, then he's quoted often.
Like I said, I knew his comments would immediately be dismissed.

I only mentioned the Trotz quote because he isn't prone to praising players- usually it is just the opposite. He has no reason for saying that about Weber unless he believed it. He could just as easily just said he had a great night and left it at that.

So why did Trotz make the comment? Do you think he is lying? He doesn't believe what he is saying? He doesn't know what he is talking about?

Do you think you are in a better position to judge Weber than Trotz is??

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01-31-2014, 11:45 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
The problem is that he's looked good for one out of four months. Keith has a strong case for the Norris. The big strike against Karlsson is his +/- this season compared to his Norris season, but his goals and assists look good. Chara is held back by his assist number while putting up the goals and minutes. Hedman and Krug have outside shots with their current numbers.

For Shea to have a strong case requires him playing the rest of the season like he has in January ... good numbers in all situations (more ES goals and assists in Jan than Oct - Dec combined while still a major part of a top ten PP) and an improving +/- (only two winners with a minus rating since 1981-82, three since the last Leafs championship season, one of them Lidstrom in his final year).
your points are valid if the voters are rational... but if that were the case Shea would have one or two Norris trophies already.

you are correct that he needs to keep playing well after the Olympics, but if he does, especially if he ends the season with the most goals among D men, I think the voters could well decide that its his turn

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02-01-2014, 12:39 AM
  #92
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come on, we all know the norris isn't about numbers...

lidstrom'd

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02-01-2014, 02:21 AM
  #93
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Nice comeback!!


Leggy!! and Captain!!! I've never seen Legwand celebrate so hard for anything, lol.

Hutton...started with some good saves, just awful goals, then totally redeemed himself!




For goodness sakes be ready tomorrow and use this momentum in st.louis!!!

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Old
02-01-2014, 04:01 AM
  #94
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I haven't been posting at all recently, but it really sucks coming to every thread and seeing people argue about the same repetitive ********. It never used to be that way.

Just thought id vent that.

Crazy game.

Weber has a for sure chance at Norris. Other than the all might important +/- stat.. He's having his best year statisticly yet..
And he does so much more than what shows on the stats sheet.

Bye until god knows when.

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02-01-2014, 06:47 AM
  #95
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I tend to dismiss people's opinions who compare Shea Weber to a powerplay specialist, then further try to prove their point with one of the worst statistics of any sport: +/-.

Shea Weber was on ice for both of the Devil's goals tonight. I guess that means he is a bad even strength player...

Oh wait, Carter Hutton played his role of sieve again and let in two goals on a shot that wasnt even on net, and a 0.05% wrap-around shot.

Our goaltending has been horrendous. Our defense was lock down almost all night.

Weber has been and continues to dominate the ice. The powerplay is part of the game and is a huge reason we are actually winning games. He is a beast on the PK. He is a beast at even strength.

As for Trotz, I don't like his forward lineup decisions, but he is an excellent defensive coach. He certainly knows what he is talking about. This is the second time I have heard him say "This is the best year of Weber's career." Truthfully, it is. He has went to another level this past month, but he was playing very good hockey prior.
----

Great save by Hutton in OT. Still a garbage goaltender.

I don't know what this organization should do with Legwand. Give him a 3-4 year extension at 4.5-5 million. Trade him for a 1st round pick and watch him leave. Hold on to him and let him walk? I just don't know. He is playing very well this year, and he fits this team like a glove.

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02-01-2014, 07:40 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by drwpreds View Post
Like I said, I knew his comments would immediately be dismissed.

I only mentioned the Trotz quote because he isn't prone to praising players- usually it is just the opposite. He has no reason for saying that about Weber unless he believed it. He could just as easily just said he had a great night and left it at that.

So why did Trotz make the comment? Do you think he is lying? He doesn't believe what he is saying? He doesn't know what he is talking about?

Do you think you are in a better position to judge Weber than Trotz is??
In all fairness, Trotz also recently said the TEAM is playing as well as it has in years. Either he's obfuscating, or the team is playing well while goaltending is giving games away. Trotz has an agenda, and he isn't above bending the truth. We all joke about his injury reports. A Day-to-day statement from Trotz means a broken leg and will be out for 6 weeks.

So why would he bend the truth about Weber? No idea. Maybe he isn't. But to say he is always straightforward is stretching the truth.

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02-01-2014, 08:18 AM
  #97
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Nice to see Weber playing this way this past month. This is the Weber that we've always known that is in there. This is the C. Let's hope he keeps it up.

Hope he does get the Norris this year. Because he does play here , I hope he has a super fantastical Olympics (except against the US) so he is more in the minds of the Norris voters.

The team needed this victory and the way it happened. Seems like it would do wonders for them mentally.........

Oh, all you St Louis bound people. Have fun and watch out for the beer throwers.!!

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02-01-2014, 09:17 AM
  #98
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Oh to those who left early last night and the Devs fan who flipped the bird while on the 'tron.


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02-01-2014, 10:00 AM
  #99
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One of the most exciting wins to a Predators game in a long time. I am glad I stayed.
Shocked the Predators came back after Hutton let in two beach balls and gave up the lead to a very good defensive team.

DZ made some great passes that were close to turning into scoring chances. I think Smith hit the post once after a great pass from DZ.

Legwand was unnoticeable the entire game until he happened to be in the right spot for a rebound goal with 10 seconds left.

Two of the Three goals came from the defense. Thank goodness are defense can carry the Predators offense.

Both goals on the Predators were not Weber's fault even though I know he was on the ice and his +/- will be used against him but he had nothing to do with either goal. Both should of been saved and were not good shots.


People wondering about Legwand just remember he is in a contract year and do some research if you have forgot about the last time he was in one. Time to cut the cord with Legwand and get something for him while his value is high.

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02-01-2014, 10:11 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
I tend to dismiss people's opinions who compare Shea Weber to a powerplay specialist, then further try to prove their point with one of the worst statistics of any sport: +/-.
If you paid attention to what I wrote before trying to get dismissive, you would have noticed the only time I use +/- is in highlighting that only three minus players ever won the Norris. What I mention is Weber's lack of ES offense through the first three months .... one empty net ES goal, one past a goalie, in other words half of the ES goal scoring in his first 37 games than his last 16.

Your claim he's "a beast at even strength" ... a claim that doesn't hold up to scrutiny over the year. Last night he was the Shea we expected when inking him to a huge deal and put a C on his chest. It was the type play we rarely saw from him before Christmas. He turned up the emotion, physicality, and overall play for whatever reason around a month ago. It shows on and off the stat sheet.

Hutton does give up too many soft goals. However, he's won six of his last seven and went 6-2-0 for January allowing 3+ on three occasions in the month. For comparison, Maz gave up 3+ in seven of his last ten starts going 3-3-3 in that run (pulled vs MTL) ... DD is 0-1-1 averaging 4.5 ga/g.

I'll gladly take how Shea played last night in any game ... how he's played in January overall for the course of a season ... but it does lead to the question of where the hell was that level of heart and play early in the season.

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