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We Should Become Sellers!!!

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Old
02-03-2007, 04:13 PM
  #76
True Blue
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Otherwise they would have kept Ozo and Kaspar around and would have sold Shanny before his value goes down.
Kasper and Ozolinsh were not kept around becuase their play was deficient. And marketdly so.

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02-03-2007, 04:31 PM
  #77
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You realize that this team played the whole year without a second line center and still doing it. Rucchin would have worked with Shanahan. They need to add and not sell.

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02-04-2007, 10:32 AM
  #78
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You realize that this team played the whole year without a second line center and still doing it. Rucchin would have worked with Shanahan. They need to add and not sell.
Sell, sell, sell, sell,sell!!!!!Anyonone whio thinks this team is any good now or 1 or 2 players away from being good is kidding themselves. There are 10-12 teams better than us in this conference hands down. Even if we can get an 8th seed (which will not happen) we will just get swept again in the playoffs by either Buffalo or the Devils! (and Drury is not coming here next season, why would he want to or any other decent free agent)


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02-04-2007, 11:55 AM
  #79
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The problem is the coach. It has been all season and everyone here saw it. I don't post much, but I read often, and I distinctly remember a LARGE number of posters on here who were upset that Renney wasn't rolling 4 lines. I remember them being upset that the top line and Shannahan were playing 20 minutes per game for no reason (including in the waning minutes, on the PK, etc). I remember them saying that at that rate, those older players would be burnt out before the end of the season. Well...it's now February. Those four players look to be burnt out. Shocking. You guys called this months ago.

If we add a top level center and maybe a defenseman and an agitator in the offseason, then this team can compete for a cup next year. The car isn't broken. The driver is just a freaking idiot.

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02-04-2007, 12:54 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
The problem is the coach. It has been all season and everyone here saw it. I don't post much, but I read often, and I distinctly remember a LARGE number of posters on here who were upset that Renney wasn't rolling 4 lines. I remember them being upset that the top line and Shannahan were playing 20 minutes per game for no reason (including in the waning minutes, on the PK, etc). I remember them saying that at that rate, those older players would be burnt out before the end of the season. Well...it's now February. Those four players look to be burnt out. Shocking. You guys called this months ago.

If we add a top level center and maybe a defenseman and an agitator in the offseason, then this team can compete for a cup next year. The car isn't broken. The driver is just a freaking idiot.
sure, lets get thorton, Iginla, and Neidermeyer, and while were are at it maybe we can get Hossa, then we might finish 8th in the conf.

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02-04-2007, 03:47 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
Sell, sell, sell, sell,sell!!!!!Anyonone whio thinks this team is any good now or 1 or 2 players away from being good is kidding themselves. There are 10-12 teams better than us in this conference hands down. Even if we can get an 8th seed (which will not happen) we will just get swept again in the playoffs by either Buffalo or the Devils! (and Drury is not coming here next season, why would he want to or any other decent free agent)
The Rangers are old, slow, and not physical enough. I totally agree this can not be fixed with one or two players. The older guys are half gased already and will be dead in the playoffs.

The upside is the Rangers have some current players and prospects to build around.


Goal

Lundqvist - Superstar potential, young, somewhat proven
Montoya- Superstar potential, young, Great tradeable asset

Defence

Tyutin - Young, strong, perfect #3, getting physical, offence will come
Staal - top pairing potential, young, strong, great skater
Sanguenetti - possible #3 dman, strong skater, offensive talent
Baranka - young, can skate, good frame, deserves shot next year
Girardi - good NHL start, even if he is #5 -6, he fits the bill
Rachunek - this guy has to be re-signed, put him in a better system he'll adapt
Rozsival - used right, 2nd pairing, 2nd Powerplay, he fills his role well
Sauer - promising prospect with good frame.

That is 8 under 30 players that we should be able to pick 4 out of to play with 2 quality (Stuart, Souray, Hannan) free agent signings over the next few years.


Forward = major weakness

Prucha - only true NHL ready youngster, size is issue, heart is not
Dawes - possible younger Prucha clone
Betts - great checking line, 4th line center
Ortmeyer - late 20's but quality checking line, pen kill winger
Cullen - 30ish, but we locked him up long and expensive, still great 3rd line center
Korpikowski - decent prospect, should be excellent checking line winger
Dubinsky - decent prospect, worst case Korpikowski's center


we have decent youth for the bottom 2 lines, and guys like Cullen whos contract leaves him virtually unmovable. Dubinsky, Dawes and Korpikowski have outside chances of being top 6'ers.

Tradeable Assets

Jagr - We dont have the core for a playoff team so why keep him. He has a great contract that should fetch us a 1st rounder, high prospect, roster player

Shanny- Playoff super stud - love the guy, but get a 1st rounder prospect for him.

Nylander - While I am not as high as some on him, he should bring back a decent prospect as a lot of teams are looking for playoff rental centerman

Straka - love him but he would fetch a decent return from a rental team.

A. Ward- Nashville would love him as would many others, might pick up a decent defence prospect

Immonen, J Ward, Hall, and even Ozo can be thrown in with the above for fill ins.

Malik - put him on the market, if we get a 6th rounder take it just to dump the contract.


Yeah I know, they will suck for the next few years but after that they will at least have a core of players to build around. When that is done NYR becomes competative and can in turn be buyers.

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Old
02-04-2007, 05:19 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by funky View Post
The Rangers are old, slow, and not physical enough. I totally agree this can not be fixed with one or two players. The older guys are half gased already and will be dead in the playoffs.

The upside is the Rangers have some current players and prospects to build around.


Goal

Lundqvist - Superstar potential, young, somewhat proven
Montoya- Superstar potential, young, Great tradeable asset

Defence

Tyutin - Young, strong, perfect #3, getting physical, offence will come
Staal - top pairing potential, young, strong, great skater
Sanguenetti - possible #3 dman, strong skater, offensive talent
Baranka - young, can skate, good frame, deserves shot next year
Girardi - good NHL start, even if he is #5 -6, he fits the bill
Rachunek - this guy has to be re-signed, put him in a better system he'll adapt
Rozsival - used right, 2nd pairing, 2nd Powerplay, he fills his role well
Sauer - promising prospect with good frame.

That is 8 under 30 players that we should be able to pick 4 out of to play with 2 quality (Stuart, Souray, Hannan) free agent signings over the next few years.


Forward = major weakness

Prucha - only true NHL ready youngster, size is issue, heart is not
Dawes - possible younger Prucha clone
Betts - great checking line, 4th line center
Ortmeyer - late 20's but quality checking line, pen kill winger
Cullen - 30ish, but we locked him up long and expensive, still great 3rd line center
Korpikowski - decent prospect, should be excellent checking line winger
Dubinsky - decent prospect, worst case Korpikowski's center


we have decent youth for the bottom 2 lines, and guys like Cullen whos contract leaves him virtually unmovable. Dubinsky, Dawes and Korpikowski have outside chances of being top 6'ers.

Tradeable Assets

Jagr - We dont have the core for a playoff team so why keep him. He has a great contract that should fetch us a 1st rounder, high prospect, roster player

Shanny- Playoff super stud - love the guy, but get a 1st rounder prospect for him.

Nylander - While I am not as high as some on him, he should bring back a decent prospect as a lot of teams are looking for playoff rental centerman

Straka - love him but he would fetch a decent return from a rental team.

A. Ward- Nashville would love him as would many others, might pick up a decent defence prospect

Immonen, J Ward, Hall, and even Ozo can be thrown in with the above for fill ins.

Malik - put him on the market, if we get a 6th rounder take it just to dump the contract.


Yeah I know, they will suck for the next few years but after that they will at least have a core of players to build around. When that is done NYR becomes competative and can in turn be buyers.
I agree, get rid of the old man team, the only thing im not sure of is anyone will take Jagr because the team that would get him would be charged the whole $8M on the cap, not sure too many teams can afford that.

Interesting stat yesterday during the Devils game, Buffalo had 12 of 20 players that they drafted in the game while the Devils had 13 of 20 (it might have been 12 devils, 13 buf. but who's counting).

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02-04-2007, 05:28 PM
  #83
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What you are proposing is being like the kings or Capitals. We don't have the young players to be like them and they are not good teams. Every prospect we got can be one or two years away, otherwise they would have already made this team. How can you not play any young players and then trade your vets for more young players that you never going to play. What prospect are you going to get for Shanahan that will make this team? Another Immonen?

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Old
02-04-2007, 05:38 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funky View Post
The Rangers are old, slow, and not physical enough. I totally agree this can not be fixed with one or two players. The older guys are half gased already and will be dead in the playoffs.

The upside is the Rangers have some current players and prospects to build around.


Goal

Lundqvist - Superstar potential, young, somewhat proven
Montoya- Superstar potential, young, Great tradeable asset

Defence

Tyutin - Young, strong, perfect #3, getting physical, offence will come
Staal - top pairing potential, young, strong, great skater
Sanguenetti - possible #3 dman, strong skater, offensive talent
Baranka - young, can skate, good frame, deserves shot next year
Girardi - good NHL start, even if he is #5 -6, he fits the bill
Rachunek - this guy has to be re-signed, put him in a better system he'll adapt
Rozsival - used right, 2nd pairing, 2nd Powerplay, he fills his role well
Sauer - promising prospect with good frame.

That is 8 under 30 players that we should be able to pick 4 out of to play with 2 quality (Stuart, Souray, Hannan) free agent signings over the next few years.


Forward = major weakness

Prucha - only true NHL ready youngster, size is issue, heart is not
Dawes - possible younger Prucha clone
Betts - great checking line, 4th line center
Ortmeyer - late 20's but quality checking line, pen kill winger
Cullen - 30ish, but we locked him up long and expensive, still great 3rd line center
Korpikowski - decent prospect, should be excellent checking line winger
Dubinsky - decent prospect, worst case Korpikowski's center


we have decent youth for the bottom 2 lines, and guys like Cullen whos contract leaves him virtually unmovable. Dubinsky, Dawes and Korpikowski have outside chances of being top 6'ers.

Tradeable Assets

Jagr - We dont have the core for a playoff team so why keep him. He has a great contract that should fetch us a 1st rounder, high prospect, roster player

Shanny- Playoff super stud - love the guy, but get a 1st rounder prospect for him.

Nylander - While I am not as high as some on him, he should bring back a decent prospect as a lot of teams are looking for playoff rental centerman

Straka - love him but he would fetch a decent return from a rental team.

A. Ward- Nashville would love him as would many others, might pick up a decent defence prospect

Immonen, J Ward, Hall, and even Ozo can be thrown in with the above for fill ins.

Malik - put him on the market, if we get a 6th rounder take it just to dump the contract.


Yeah I know, they will suck for the next few years but after that they will at least have a core of players to build around. When that is done NYR becomes competative and can in turn be buyers.

Suck more, man I'm getting sick and tired of the rangers sucking. I can't go throw another tenure of the dark years. The Pens didn't suck nearly long enough for them to be as good as they are, why do we have to go through sucking twice as long for nothing half as good. Its BS, its already been 10 yrs of nothing, last year was just a tease.

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Old
02-04-2007, 07:45 PM
  #85
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The thing is, we actually suck now. Win 5 lose 5, win 3 lose 4, offense two weeks in a row, nothing the next two, is not sign of a good team. Jagr has two years left, Straka and Nylander have about the same, then the Rangers have nothing as they will retire or move on. No compensation. We have 2 first rounders between now and then and no hope to sign any decent young free agents as we have bloated contracts.

Using the Kings as an example. They are rebuilding but they have a core they are building around. Their record is not as bad as the team shows as they had no goaltending at all until this recent hot stretch by 40 year old Burke. If rumors hold true and they sell of some of the vets this year and sign a few key free agents next year, Goalie and Defenseman. They will be dangerous. McCauley their checking line center has been out all year, and both starters, Cloutier and Garon were gone for a long time. Again they have a core they are building around. as for that Core

Kopitar - draft pick = Montoya
Frolov - draft pick = Staal
Brown - draft pick = Sanguinetti
O'Sullivan/Lewis - trade for Demetra = Jagr
Johnson - trade = Straka
Cammy - draft pick = Dawes
Visnovsky - draft = Tyutin
Bernier - draft = Lundqvist
2nd overall pick = Shanny and Rangers first 10 - 15

As you see L.A's core and how it came about is easily duplicated by the Rangers. The Rangers have an advantage as they already have a stud young goalie in Lundqvist and are rich in young defensman. L.A's core has no NHL ready goalie and consists mostly of forward. We all know that defence/goaltending is more valued.

So the Rangers miss the playoffs for the next couple years. Its not like they would make it if the season ended today. Therefor, rebuild, develop your core and supplement it through trades and free agency. The younger a team is, the less cap trouble it will have.

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02-04-2007, 08:03 PM
  #86
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I understand what you're saying, and agree with it, but missing the playoffs for another two years is brutal. I think the next two yrs, with Jagr and Co. still on the team, we can make the playoffs both those yrs, with some adjusting of course. By the time they're gone alot of our young guys, some of whom will probably already be playing in the NHL, take over, along with some trades, hopefully young, and will be competing just as much as the two yrs before that with Jagr and Co. I see no point in even having Jagr and Co, and Shanny on the team if we're not making the playoffs. If we're going to go that way Get rid of them and go all out young, but I'd like to see the concept "building while winning", in full affect, except we need to go younger than this years attemp at that.

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02-04-2007, 08:43 PM
  #87
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If we were to move the following guys what do you think we would get in return

Jagr?

Shanny

Weekes

Pock

Malik

Straka

Cullen


I would love to see at least 4 of them gone. Not because i don't like them but rather how happy the youth we get in return and maybe some grinders

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Old
02-04-2007, 09:32 PM
  #88
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This team is losing because they don't have enough. Cullen is no second line center and the defense isn't that good. Not signing Poti and phasing out Kasparaitis while Staal, is not ready is not a smart move. Rachuneck is worst than Poti. They never gave this team a chance to win. They are not going to give you a lot for Jagr and Shanahan. Maybe some cheap prospects. No team gives up their top prospects.
We should not do it either but they are talking about finishing dead last. When Shanahan and Jagr retire in two years then hope the guys in Hartford will be ready.

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02-04-2007, 11:15 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AXN View Post
This team is losing because they don't have enough. Cullen is no second line center and the defense isn't that good. Not signing Poti and phasing out Kasparaitis while Staal, is not ready is not a smart move. Rachuneck is worst than Poti. They never gave this team a chance to win. They are not going to give you a lot for Jagr and Shanahan. Maybe some cheap prospects. No team gives up their top prospects.
We should not do it either but they are talking about finishing dead last. When Shanahan and Jagr retire in two years then hope the guys in Hartford will be ready.
A team that is very close to the cup that needs that one last piece will give up top young assets. The 92-93 and 93-94 Rangers did it over the span of 2 seasons to lock up the cup.

So what are they going to do, throw all of these guys out there at one time so that they can lose every damn game because they all have little or no experience at all? What this team has to do is start phasing guys into the lineup. Not a complete firesale, but keep some of the guys around.

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Old
02-05-2007, 09:51 AM
  #90
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So what are they going to do, throw all of these guys out there at one time so that they can lose every damn game because they all have little or no experience at all? What this team has to do is start phasing guys into the lineup. Not a complete firesale, but keep some of the guys around.
I agree that this team will never go through a complete rebuild...so the best we can hope for is that they start replacing the old guys with younger ones. Personally I would trade every player over 30 in a hearbeat for picks and prospects and younger players and be fine with sucking for 2 more years if it gave us a legitimate chance to put together a team that would be highly competitive for 5 or 10 years. Unfortunately that will never happen here. So the alternative is to at least hope that the team is smart enough to know they aren't 1 or 2 guys away, and not trade for guys like Forsberg at the expense of setting us back another 3-5 years. It's a vicious cycle, and despite the team saying they won't revert to the old ways, I'm still very concerned about what they might do.

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02-05-2007, 12:36 PM
  #91
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Remember the scene in Trading Places with Randolph and Mortimer Duke

They ran into the trading pit attempting to sell their frozen orange juice contracts/futures after Billy Ray Valentine and Louie Winthrope the III switched the crop report on them

"Get back in there and SELL,SELL,SELL"

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02-05-2007, 01:03 PM
  #92
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the problem about trading away shanahan and jagr is 2 fold.

1, i feel keeping shanahan around these guys will help their maturation and understanding of what needs to be done to play the game at this level. hes a good leader to have.

2, jagr shows the guys what its like to win, if we didnt have jagr, wed be probably vying for the first overall pick. Also, hes an absolute steal with his contract, trade him next year if you must.

Id be more interested in trading guys like..

Pock (i like him, but it looks like the club doesnt)
Immonen (see above)
Weekes (useless right now, could get back a decent return, possibly a 2nd round draft pick)
Straka (1 year deal left, and is producing big time, could get a good young player, or possibly a first rounder from a desperate team)
Nylander (probably get a first rounder for him)
Cullen (3rd rounder probably)
Malik (bag of pucks)
Rozsival (might give us a good return, which is why i would move him)
Betts
J. Ward
A. Ward
Rachunek
Hall
Krog
Hossa
etc

basically the only guys i would call untradeable right now are
Jagr
Shanahan
Prucha
Lundqvist
Tyutin
all the b-a kids


if we gutted our team, i could see us getting back, maybe 2 first rounders, several prospects, a few 2nd and 3rd rounders, etc.

would DEFINITELY help to move the rebuild along.

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02-05-2007, 02:26 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
the problem about trading away shanahan and jagr is 2 fold.

1, i feel keeping shanahan around these guys will help their maturation and understanding of what needs to be done to play the game at this level. hes a good leader to have.

2, jagr shows the guys what its like to win, if we didnt have jagr, wed be probably vying for the first overall pick. Also, hes an absolute steal with his contract, trade him next year if you must.

Id be more interested in trading guys like..

Pock (i like him, but it looks like the club doesnt)
Immonen (see above)
Weekes (useless right now, could get back a decent return, possibly a 2nd round draft pick)
Straka (1 year deal left, and is producing big time, could get a good young player, or possibly a first rounder from a desperate team)
Nylander (probably get a first rounder for him)
Cullen (3rd rounder probably)
Malik (bag of pucks)
Rozsival (might give us a good return, which is why i would move him)
Betts
J. Ward
A. Ward
Rachunek
Hall
Krog
Hossa
etc

basically the only guys i would call untradeable right now are
Jagr
Shanahan
Prucha
Lundqvist
Tyutin
all the b-a kids


if we gutted our team, i could see us getting back, maybe 2 first rounders, several prospects, a few 2nd and 3rd rounders, etc.

would DEFINITELY help to move the rebuild along.
Agreed on all , but Shanahan. Leadership and experience are good thing, but he is not quite compatible to Jagr. I've got the feeling that Jarg wont tolerate another top gun around. So, if Jagr stays, than Shanny must go. We can get 1st rounder for him. Or if you wanna keep Shanny, let Jagr go plus purge the team from the rest of the Czechs (it will be done later anyway when Anisimov and Tyutin will be core players). Since Jagr is not tradable being very cheap at the same time, then get Shanny moved.

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02-05-2007, 02:28 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
I agree that this team will never go through a complete rebuild...so the best we can hope for is that they start replacing the old guys with younger ones. Personally I would trade every player over 30 in a hearbeat for picks and prospects and younger players and be fine with sucking for 2 more years if it gave us a legitimate chance to put together a team that would be highly competitive for 5 or 10 years. Unfortunately that will never happen here. So the alternative is to at least hope that the team is smart enough to know they aren't 1 or 2 guys away, and not trade for guys like Forsberg at the expense of setting us back another 3-5 years. It's a vicious cycle, and despite the team saying they won't revert to the old ways, I'm still very concerned about what they might do.
That's not the way to do it though.

We have to keep around some players for some veteran leadership. That's where I think Shanahan and Ward come in. I mean even adding a guy like Drury through free agency, even if this team is going to suck would be great, because he's a great character guy. I don't like him as a 1st line center, but I'd love to have him around because of his leadership and character.

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02-05-2007, 03:06 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Agreed on all , but Shanahan. Leadership and experience are good thing, but he is not quite compatible to Jagr. I've got the feeling that Jarg wont tolerate another top gun around. So, if Jagr stays, than Shanny must go. We can get 1st rounder for him. Or if you wanna keep Shanny, let Jagr go plus purge the team from the rest of the Czechs (it will be done later anyway when Anisimov and Tyutin will be core players). Since Jagr is not tradable being very cheap at the same time, then get Shanny moved.
well, i think a mandate needs to happen w/ shanahan, we offer him a contract extension, if he signs it, we keep it, if he doenst, we trade him. this way we dont lose him for nothing.

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02-05-2007, 10:15 PM
  #96
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After tonight we should....

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02-05-2007, 10:21 PM
  #97
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from now on we have too

its not an option

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