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GDT February 3: Rangers at Tampa Bay, 7:30p MSG2

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Old
02-04-2007, 11:36 AM
  #401
klingsor
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Gadzooks!!!

I pity any pregnant woman who had to lug around the likes of anyone who would question her undeniable and justifiable right to complain about it every so often.

Talk about ungrateful.

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02-04-2007, 11:41 AM
  #402
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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
Yes, it happens every "freakin game" to the RANGERS. Not every team is treated like us. SO excuse us & Shanahan for acting like a bunch of pregnant women.
I just can't agree with that my friend. Yeah we have gotten plenty of bad calls, I'm not disagreeing with that and it drives me nuts, but I've seen a lot of games and there's bad calls in every one of them. Regardless of the team. I don't buy the conspiracy against the Rangers thing and just don't like whining or making excuses. We have to play better, plain and simple.

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02-04-2007, 11:50 AM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
I really love having Joe as our color guy.

This is probably sacrilige, but...

I think I enjoy him as much as I enjoyed JD...
My problem with Joe's outburst was that he should have shown Sam a little more respect. I understand he was very upset, but he's a professional and must realize that he's live on the air. I caught the whole conversation and although I'm not a Ranger fan I did find it a bit uncomfortable to listen to in respect of Rosen trying to reason with him. I thought he was out of line. Maybe it's just that I like Sam Rosen and respect his opinion.

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02-04-2007, 11:51 AM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Garv23 View Post
I just can't agree with that my friend. Yeah we have gotten plenty of bad calls, I'm not disagreeing with that and it drives me nuts, but I've seen a lot of games and there's bad calls in every one of them. Regardless of the team. I don't buy the conspiracy against the Rangers thing and just don't like whining or making excuses. We have to play better, plain and simple.
Thats just plain bogus, im not saying there is a conspiracy against the Rangers, but i know for sure there are a few refs who just hate the Rangers, and Spada (who reffed last night) is probably tops on that list, along with Mcgeough and others.

some refs are totally fair (Frasier, imho, for example), let me change that, the bulk of the refs are totally fair who may occasionally have bad games, but 3 or 4 are definitely biased against the Rangers, all you need to do is watch games on a consistent basis and note who those refs are.

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02-04-2007, 11:52 AM
  #405
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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post
My problem with Joe's outburst was that he should have shown Sam a little more respect. I understand he was very upset, but he's a professional and must realize that he's live on the air. I caught the whole conversation and although I'm not a Ranger fan I did find it a bit uncomfortable to listen to in respect of Rosen trying to reason with him. I thought he was out of line. Maybe it's just that I like Sam Rosen and respect his opinion.
i didnt even hear it, was stuck with the Tampa feed (*sigh*)
what exactly was said? any chance anyone knows what period it was in? i can go back and download the game and find out for myself.

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02-04-2007, 12:03 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Thats just plain bogus, im not saying there is a conspiracy against the Rangers, but i know for sure there are a few refs who just hate the Rangers, and Spada (who reffed last night) is probably tops on that list, along with Mcgeough and others.

some refs are totally fair (Frasier, imho, for example), let me change that, the bulk of the refs are totally fair who may occasionally have bad games, but 3 or 4 are definitely biased against the Rangers, all you need to do is watch games on a consistent basis and note who those refs are.
Since you know that certain refs are biased against the Rangers and you have the visual proof I suggest you send it to the NHL offices and all of the media outlets. Heads are gonna roll!

By the way, why do these refs hate the Rangers? Are they betting on the opposition? Do they hate the city of New York? Are they Jihadists? What drives these evildoers?

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02-04-2007, 12:09 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
i didnt even hear it, was stuck with the Tampa feed (*sigh*)
what exactly was said? any chance anyone knows what period it was in? i can go back and download the game and find out for myself.
It was about a particular penalty that Micheletti lost his cool on and went on a rant and when Sam tried to reason with him or maybe it was more to calm him down, he kind of came off to Rosen, which was not very professional.

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02-04-2007, 12:10 PM
  #408
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Inferno: Basically the play went like this St Louis had moved the puck up the boards and a few seconds later Cullen bumped him. The call was made and it was called interferance because St Louis had already let the puck go. Sam felt it was a good call, but Joe felt as though it was another example of the passion being taken out of the game. Sam said somthing to the effect of how its in the rule book and that play was a clear example of it. Joe basically was just like " yeah" "ok" "yeah" "I know", kind of just brushing Sam off a little I guess. I think it was in the second.

EDIT: Its at 19:04 in the second according to NHL.COM

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02-04-2007, 12:16 PM
  #409
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''It looked like it helped us a lot, the last comment we made,'' Jagr said.

Jagr disagreeing with Shanny.

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02-04-2007, 12:52 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by 51tyutin51 View Post
''It looked like it helped us a lot, the last comment we made,'' Jagr said.

Jagr disagreeing with Shanny.
Yea Jaromir, I sure saw alot of offensive production to overcome that one goal lead. He seriously needs to shut the heck up and just produce. Tell him to stick his secondary assists up his ass.

This sarcasm is not needed.

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Old
02-04-2007, 12:54 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Sorry Inferno but a backhander from 15 feet out, regardless of who was screening is a soft goal.

The second and third goals were shot you just have to stop. It doesn't matter if you make 37 saves, a bad goal is a bad goal. Lundqvist has struggled with that this year. He can make an amazing save one minute and then give up a goal that looks way beneath him. To be honest with you, this year he resembles less the goalie I saw last year and more of what I saw out of and didn't like about Tom Barasso for 15 years.
I'm a little surprised you're calling Lundqvist on the 2nd goal, Edge.

From the goaltender's perspective it's pretty simple: he's either down in his butterfly or he's in his stance. If he's down and the puck goes up top people criticize him for being down too early. If he's up and the puck goes between his legs, people criticize him for that. The guy can't win.

I'm not sure how many of you have ever had the opportunity to look through 4-5 players in order to find the puck, but it's not fun. At that point you're using your ears as much as you're using your eyes in an attempt to catch when the puck is leaving the opponents stick. If they wrist it or backhand it, you're ****ed.

I can't comment on the 3rd goal because I was watching UFC 67, but Henrik Lundqvist is far from the problem.


Last edited by BigE: 02-05-2007 at 11:23 AM.
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02-04-2007, 01:03 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by 51tyutin51 View Post
''It looked like it helped us a lot, the last comment we made,'' Jagr said.

Jagr disagreeing with Shanny.
Where was this from?

If it's true and accurate, let the in-fighting begin.

Damn shame...

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02-04-2007, 01:57 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Il Ragazzone View Post
Yea Jaromir, I sure saw alot of offensive production to overcome that one goal lead. He seriously needs to shut the heck up and just produce. Tell him to stick his secondary assists up his ass.

This sarcasm is not needed.

He's right...

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02-04-2007, 02:01 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by BigE View Post
Where was this from?

If it's true and accurate, let the in-fighting begin.

Damn shame...
Infighting between a guy that hasn't scored an even strength goal in two months vs one of the best players in hockey...

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02-04-2007, 02:39 PM
  #415
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I'm not sure how thats disagreeing with Shanny. He probably meant, a comment was made, and it didn't change things.

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02-04-2007, 03:10 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Infighting between a guy that hasn't scored an even strength goal in two months vs one of the best players in hockey...
I've been reading your posts on this subject for sometime and your bias is overwhelming evident.

Give it a rest.

The "blame" for the direction of this club falls on everyone's shoulders - not just Shanahan, not just Lundqvist, not just Jagr.

It's funny that Jagr is so quick to forget that when no one would stand up for him - not Straka, not Nylander, not any of his other Czech buddies - it was Shanahan who fought one of the toughest guys in the league. It's Shanahan who's been coming to his rescue all year long; defending him from the press, defending him from other players, and defending him from the referees.

You see it as one of the best players in the league vs. a guy who hasn't scored an even strength goal in 20 some games. The rest of the league sees it as a chronic whiner vs. one of the best leaders in the league.

Jagr decided to make this stretch drive about him with his comments last week. Last time I checked he's yet to come through. So if you're going to call Shanahan on his contributions you'd better be willing to call Jagr as well. Jagr doesn't play the PK, isn't backchecking, isn't forechecking, and really isn't even making things happen offensively the way Shanahan is. And if Shanahan's performance offensively has been so awful what does that say of Jagr?

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02-04-2007, 03:26 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post
I just can't agree with that my friend. Yeah we have gotten plenty of bad calls, I'm not disagreeing with that and it drives me nuts, but I've seen a lot of games and there's bad calls in every one of them. Regardless of the team. I don't buy the conspiracy against the Rangers thing and just don't like whining or making excuses. We have to play better, plain and simple.
Its certainly not a consipercy, and you are a better team, while being extremely far from a contender you still have some gas left from the god old days.

But, the Rangers have been the bad guys in this league for a decade now. When pretty much all Canadian teams stunk for a long time the reason that always were brought up were big US $, and we personalized big US $.

We are also lead by Jagr who never have been appreciated among refs, probably for good reasons back in the days...

I played the game till I were 22 y/o, it were my life for a good 14-15 years. I probably watch 150 games in a year, at all levels. I can tell if there is a compensation call, if a team is getting a little favored on home ice because of the pressure from the crowd.

Would I trust myself to being 100% objective watching the Rangers play? Definitely not.

Though over the course of a season, its obvious that we are not getting any respect, or whatever word should be used, from the refs. On the contrary, in situations were maybe a compensation penalty would be in order, more often then not the refs sticks it to us again just to make a point.

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02-04-2007, 03:48 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by BigE View Post
It's funny that Jagr is so quick to forget that when no one would stand up for him - not Straka, not Nylander, not any of his other Czech buddies - it was Shanahan who fought one of the toughest guys in the league. It's Shanahan who's been coming to his rescue all year long; defending him from the press, defending him from other players, and defending him from the referees.
I agree BigE, Shanahan is what 38 years old. When he came here I honestly were worried that he would have allot of problems even getting 50-60 pts.

He is defenitly contributing as much as can be asked from him, and allot more. The same IMO can be said of Jagr.

The problem is that besides the first line, Shanahan in the leadership deparment, Rozival stepping up and actually beeing decent for a top pairing D, not one player on this team have really contributed. And by contributing I don't mean just holding their own filling a roster spot, but really stepping up and constantly winning battles for this team. We got that last season from the 3rd and 4th line, we even got it occasionaly from the 2nd line, we defenitly got it from Lundqvist.

I think the reason we are in trouble now are because a few miscalculations made this off season. First of all, the belief that Shanahan, Cullen + a lw from within could form a good enough 2nd line. Not realizing that if production was expected from Prucha he would need allot more support then what we got to offer. Not realizing that Immonen was a bust, and probably counting on him to fill the void after Moore.

I saw Washington vs Islanders tonight, Washington is seen as a team with really poor depth. Though without a doubt, guys like Danius Zubrus and Richard Zednik would easily be the 4th and 5th most talented forwards for us. Not that I ever would take them over Prucha and Shanahan, but my point is that in terms of just pure skills, we defenitly don't have much after our top 3.

Cullen can at times be a likeable player, and at times be pretty annoying, but its obvious that he don't see the ice well enough to play a big role on a 2nd line. Marcel Hossa clearly don't have the gods. I love Prucha, but he too aren't anything but a role player, I still belive he can be a tremendous role player though, in the right enviorment...

I can see the reasoning behind the Hall trade and giving up on Rucinsky after our PO's last season, we aimed higher, but now I personally defenitly think we would be allot better of with Rucinsky instead of Cullen for example.

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02-04-2007, 04:26 PM
  #419
Inferno
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Its certainly not a consipercy, and you are a better team, while being extremely far from a contender you still have some gas left from the god old days.

But, the Rangers have been the bad guys in this league for a decade now. When pretty much all Canadian teams stunk for a long time the reason that always were brought up were big US $, and we personalized big US $.

We are also lead by Jagr who never have been appreciated among refs, probably for good reasons back in the days...

I played the game till I were 22 y/o, it were my life for a good 14-15 years. I probably watch 150 games in a year, at all levels. I can tell if there is a compensation call, if a team is getting a little favored on home ice because of the pressure from the crowd.

Would I trust myself to being 100% objective watching the Rangers play? Definitely not.

Though over the course of a season, its obvious that we are not getting any respect, or whatever word should be used, from the refs. On the contrary, in situations were maybe a compensation penalty would be in order, more often then not the refs sticks it to us again just to make a point.
absolutely 110% agree.

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02-04-2007, 04:33 PM
  #420
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anyone got a sound bite of Joe going off?

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02-04-2007, 05:24 PM
  #421
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SoS...

I don't think it's fair to say a guy who hasn't produced cannot speak out. Shanny's been in the league for nearly 20 years. He's always been outspoken, and this was known when he was acquired in the offseason. The Rangers didn't havea 'player spokesperson' last season - Jagr doesn't want to be it - and Shanny's it this season. He talks about the team, not about himself, and he's honest in his assessment. I don't see a problem with that.

As for infighting...if there is any, blame Sather and Renney. Sather has a mixed team. He has finesse, and a flair of N.A. style - personally, it's like toughness on team, and you don't get toughness by dressing an enforcer for 3 minutes per game. You play one style, and that's about it, not mix and match. That's an issue of the coach and the GM, and any resulting conflicts, if there are such conflicts from within, are a result of that. I can't complain too much about Shanny. He's not that far off Jagr in points and has more goals. He's been a great PKer and seems to go out there and play real hard, and this despite playing with who he's played with. He's not Jagr, we all know that, but without him, this team is battling Philly. Both Shanny and Jagr need to step it up. Jagr's on pace for 30 goals and just under 100 points - a bit off last season's pace of over 50 goals...this team needs him to begin dominating once again, no doubt.

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02-04-2007, 06:05 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by BigE View Post
I've been reading your posts on this subject for sometime and your bias is overwhelming evident
.

I don't care..Jagr is the best player on the team..As he goes this team goes...He can say whatever he wants...he's earned it...

Quote:
Give it a rest.
yeah right..

Quote:
The "blame" for the direction of this club falls on everyone's shoulders - not just Shanahan, not just Lundqvist, not just Jagr.
Any more general statements...why not comeback with something original..instead of this comment above..What's next.."If they all played 60 solid minutes they would be contenders" Look up more cliches...

Quote:
It's funny that Jagr is so quick to forget that when no one would stand up for him - not Straka, not Nylander, not any of his other Czech buddies - it was Shanahan who fought one of the toughest guys in the league. It's Shanahan who's been coming to his rescue all year long; defending him from the press, defending him from other players, and defending him from the referees.
Wow that Shanny he made a difference...Forget the fact that Straka and Nylander are producing (at even strength as well) Shanny fought one of the toughest guys in the league..you know that turned into..NOTHING..WHO CARES..Funny it looks like Jagr never asked Shanny to defend him to the press...Nor did he want him to defend him to referees..Perhaps Shanny was just looking to deflect the attention away from his old hands and old body...his lazy shifts of late...oh can we bash brendon or has the 4 months he's been on the Rangers made that impossible..Oh wait Jagr can be bashed for everything..but not shanny..he fought brashear and he even had so much gumption that get this...he talked to the press....oh what a team guy...what a leader..

Quote:
You see it as one of the best players in the league vs. a guy who hasn't scored an even strength goal in 20 some games. The rest of the league sees it as a chronic whiner vs. one of the best leaders in the league.
or is it perhaps the best player in hockey vs a guy that looks washed up? Guess you missed Jagrs two cups? he won them in pittsburgh...That Shanny look how he is leading this team...What a LEADER!!

Quote:
Jagr decided to make this stretch drive about him with his comments last week. Last time I checked he's yet to come through. So if you're going to call Shanahan on his contributions you'd better be willing to call Jagr as well. Jagr doesn't play the PK, isn't backchecking, isn't forechecking, and really isn't even making things happen offensively the way Shanahan is. And if Shanahan's performance offensively has been so awful what does that say of Jagr?
I too think Jagrs comments were BS..I posted it in the thread where everybody was praising Jagr..So the past 4 games means Jagrs words mean nothing..You can judge a guy by 4 games...wow...good for you man...why not look at the past 2 months...hey who has 1 even strength goal? What's that guys name again?

Shanny is making things happen offensively?

i wonder how many goals shanny has scored this season that Jagr has assisted on? I wonder how many goals would the our 38 year old paper captain have without Jagr? Jeez I don't know..

The fact is Shanahan should shut up and play..he did this team no favors...

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02-04-2007, 06:33 PM
  #423
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
.

I don't care..Jagr is the best player on the team..As he goes this team goes...He can say whatever he wants...he's earned it...
Earned what? The right to say that he's the man and as he goes, the team goes, then fail to deliver? He should be the last one talking right now. The only thing he should be doing is proving he's the best player in the league. No more excuses of shoulder this, and shoulder that.


Quote:
Any more general statements...why not comeback with something original..instead of this comment above..What's next.."If they all played 60 solid minutes they would be contenders" Look up more cliches...
So you're into blaming one or two people at a time are you? The thing people seem to forget about cliches is that they're said often for a reason. I wonder why...

Quote:
Wow that Shanny he made a difference...Forget the fact that Straka and Nylander are producing (at even strength as well) Shanny fought one of the toughest guys in the league..you know that turned into..NOTHING..WHO CARES..Funny it looks like Jagr never asked Shanny to defend him to the press...Nor did he want him to defend him to referees..Perhaps Shanny was just looking to deflect the attention away from his old hands and old body...his lazy shifts of late...oh can we bash brendon or has the 4 months he's been on the Rangers made that impossible..Oh wait Jagr can be bashed for everything..but not shanny..he fought brashear and he even had so much gumption that get this...he talked to the press....oh what a team guy...what a leader..
Funny, last time I checked Marty Straka had 4 even strength goals in his last 20 games, 3 of which came in the same game! Over the same period Michael Nylander had 2! Now let's compare what each of these individuals has to work with...!

No, it doesn't look like Jagr asked him to defend him, but you can bet that he thanked Shanahan. Did Gretzky "ask" Semenko, does Ovechkin "ask" Brashear, did Tanguay "ask" Iginla? You don't have to ask. A good teammate does what needs to be done, and the fact that the Rangers failed to respond after this should reflect the ENTIRE team, not discount the actions and intent of Shanahan.

Yeah, it must have been those lazy Shanahan shifts. I question the number of shifts you've really even seen with that Jagr jersey pulled over your head.

Quote:
or is it perhaps the best player in hockey vs a guy that looks washed up? Guess you missed Jagrs two cups? he won them in pittsburgh...That Shanny look how he is leading this team...What a LEADER!!
I concede your point. Clearly Shanahan's 3 cups are inferior to Jagr's 2. Good one...


Quote:
I too think Jagrs comments were BS..I posted it in the thread where everybody was praising Jagr..So the past 4 games means Jagrs words mean nothing..You can judge a guy by 4 games...wow...good for you man...why not look at the past 2 months...hey who has 1 even strength goal? What's that guys name again?

Shanny is making things happen offensively?

i wonder how many goals shanny has scored this season that Jagr has assisted on? I wonder how many goals would the our 38 year old paper captain have without Jagr? Jeez I don't know..

The fact is Shanahan should shut up and play..he did this team no favors...
I'll put it this way: Shanahan is doing more to help the Rangers than Jagr. At least he's still getting chances. Jagr's doing **** all with the puck. Then you factor in the killing he does, his physical presence on the forecheck, and his hustle on the backcheck. Twist his performances all you want, but it does nothing for your argument or your credibility.

If this team falls apart its Jagr they should be trading - not Shanahan.

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02-05-2007, 01:25 AM
  #424
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how exactly is he supposed to stop it? I dont get that? there were 4 people in his way, 4, not 1 or 2, 4 people make a wall man, Ranger skated from a clear shot, right into the walled off area and took a backhand that nobody saw coming, I dont blame Henrik for that goal at all..
1)you physically can not see anything from his angle, not Ranger, not the shot, nothing, 4 players basically lining up like a wall in soccer.
2)you play the odds, people dont throw backhands at the net from 15 feet out, so you dont react like there will be a shot, because it might put you out of position if there actually is a shot.
3)it was an unbelievably lucky shot that somehow found its way through the wall, and right into the 5 hole, i bet you if Ranger tries that shot 100 times, at least 95 of those times it hits one of the 4 bodies shielding Henrik.
I disagree with you.

1. I can understand not seeing but that shot was about as much of a floating shot as you can get. Being perfectly honest this board would've crucified Weekes for the same shot.
2. He played the odds and he got it. Doesn't change the fact that I've seen goalies make the same save with as many bodies in front. We aren't talking about an impossible shot.
3. See above.

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02-05-2007, 01:27 AM
  #425
Edge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
It's much easier to blame everything on the goalie for the loss huh?

We're a high scoring team and managed to score the massive amount of 2 goals. We let up 41 shots, Jagr made a boneheaded play at the end of the game, Nylander made a boneheaded play, Ward had 4 penalties and we had 10 penalties as a total. But yeah, it's all Lundqvist's fault for not seeing through 4 people and letting in 2 cannons on the PP. Lecavalier has scored 33 times this season and is tied with Ovechkin at 1st place in the league. Stupid goalies, why don't they just save the puck instead?

This loss is a team effort and a damn unnecessary one. We practically gave this one away by dumb, individual mistakes and I'm not talking about Lundqvist. He did what he should to give this team a chance for winning.
Who'se blaming everything on Lundqvist? I said I thought he should've had two of those goals.

I also pointed to other factors as to why I thought the team lost as well. But I'm not going to not callout something on the sacred cow when I see it either.

Just as I call out others on their mistakes, I'm going to do the same for Lundqvist who even when he was clearly off this season seems to be the one untouchable.

Not buying into that mindset personally.

Thought Lundqvist made some great saves, also thought he should've had those shots.

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