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Old
01-30-2014, 11:49 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
contracts that were signed before the most recent CBA.

Because that contract has significant back diving years, if that player retires at any time, the signing team is hit with a cap recapture penalty.

We can trade Richards, but if he retires from the acquiring team after 3 years, The Rangers are hit the cap recapture. Not the team that traded for him.
so what you are saying is Kovalchuk reeeeeeally effed up the Devils?

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01-30-2014, 12:15 PM
  #102
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so what you are saying is Kovalchuk reeeeeeally effed up the Devils?
nope, because of the way the first few years were structured...its a long penalty, but its not much dollar wise.

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01-30-2014, 12:25 PM
  #103
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based strictly on offensive production, Stastny and Richards (the now Richards, not the Richards from Dallas) the players are even.

Based on skating, Stastny has a major edge.

Based on defensive awareness and ability, Stastny has a major edge.

Based on ability to win a face off thus leading to a more controlled puck possession kind of game, Stastny again has a major edge.

Richards at 6.66 this year takes up 10.4% of the teams overall cap number.

Assuming we sign Stastny to a 6 year deal (same remaining term as Richards) at 7.5 per, that equates to 10.6% of the teams overall Cap number starting in 2014-15

So, we get the same player offensively, but a better player to fit AV's system at the same cap hit percentage wise AND he's 6 years younger.

The odds of a 28 year old Stastny maintaining a 55-60 point pace over the next 4-5 seasons is much greater than the odds are of a 34 year old Brad Richards maintaining that same pace.


But who guarantees us that we get Stastny?

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01-30-2014, 02:39 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
But who guarantees us that we get Stastny?
this is the other point...

WHat if Statsny decides he wants to stay in Colorado? What if he's Roy's Boy? What if Colorado makes a balls-out playoff run and their management overpays for his services?

There's no guarantee we can even get Statsny, and if we don't, the next best options are 2C's, at most, in their career years, otherwise they are 3C's.

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01-30-2014, 03:00 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
this is the other point...

WHat if Statsny decides he wants to stay in Colorado? What if he's Roy's Boy? What if Colorado makes a balls-out playoff run and their management overpays for his services?

There's no guarantee we can even get Statsny, and if we don't, the next best options are 2C's, at most, in their career years, otherwise they are 3C's.
So are you willing to cripple the team for 6 more years cap wise because you don't see an immediate replacement?

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01-30-2014, 03:27 PM
  #106
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But who guarantees us that we get Stastny?
no guarantee.

But even if we DON'T get Stastny, I Still do not want to commit 6.66 to a 34 year old player.

no sane management team commits that kind of money to a 34 year old non-elite player.

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01-30-2014, 06:20 PM
  #107
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I REALLY wish the PA would work with the league to allow a reconstruction of contracts with a player per mutual consent of both parties.... Of course you'd have to add stipulations (could not have been traded since date of new CBA, must remain on team originally signing you, etc), but my god it would have eliminated some of the ridiculous buyouts because of bad contract structuring.

As far as I know, they closed the loophole where you can be bought out, then signed by another team, and then immediately traded for. I guess you'd have to play through one contract, or play for more than one team, or perhaps X required games on new team.

Anyway, I digress...

I like Brad, I really do. I really don't want him going away. Total Professional in the locker room, example on the ice, solid all around play. Nowhere near elite, but still great. Still think alot of this falls on AV's decision. if AV sees he is an integral part of the team, and Sather is willing to sacrifice cap penalties later for contention now, then he sticks.

If AV is not involved, it's up to Sather, and he'll probably be out the door.

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Old
01-30-2014, 11:30 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
So are you willing to cripple the team for 6 more years cap wise because you don't see an immediate replacement?
Agree with this. The only tough part is being weak down the middle (assuming nobody here thinks a stepan-brassard-miller-moore/boyle superfecta is lighting up the league) in a year that the rest of our 'window' is open.

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Old
01-31-2014, 09:18 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
So are you willing to cripple the team for 6 more years cap wise because you don't see an immediate replacement?
but think about it, if we DO buy him out and sign a "replacement" center like Statsny, who is to say that this move isn't just as crippling, if not more so?

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01-31-2014, 09:43 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
but think about it, if we DO buy him out and sign a "replacement" center like Statsny, who is to say that this move isn't just as crippling, if not more so?
It almost can't be, by definition.

Brad has six years left at $6.66MM, will be 34 by the end of this season, and his contract is subject to recapture if he retires.

The longest contract we could give to Stastny would be seven years (unless we acquire him before signing him, in which case it would be eight), he will be 28 at the end of this season and his contract is not subject to recapture if he retires.

Throw in the fact that at this point in their careers Stastny is the better all-around player AND is likely to remain at his current level for the duration of his contract, and if he signs for an AAV anywhere close to Richards (say $7.5MM or below), there's no way the deal could be worse.

That said, I'm not advocating signing him - the analysis above is more an indictment against Richards and an argument that it is absolutely VITAL that they amnesty him this offseason.

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01-31-2014, 10:05 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
but think about it, if we DO buy him out and sign a "replacement" center like Statsny, who is to say that this move isn't just as crippling, if not more so?
The problem with Richards is the last 3 years of his deal. His salary in those years is 1 mil. If you think he's going to stick around for 3 years, and be an effective player, for 1 mil per year, I've got a bridge I want to sell you. When he retires early, we will be hit with a large cap penalty (in excess of 5 mil per year for 3 years).

The only way to avoid that is to give him a compliance buyout this summer. Like I said last summer, it isn't a hockey decision. It's a business decision.

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Old
02-02-2014, 12:58 AM
  #112
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Brad Richards is on pace for 60 points and a ton of shots on net.

He is a nice fit on the powerplay as well.

NY can do much worse (and has) for the money.

I am not against buying him out, but would like to see specifically where that money should be spent

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02-02-2014, 01:10 AM
  #113
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I think he ultimately should be bought out, but my gut feeling is a lot of posters here will be very disappointed next summer.

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02-02-2014, 01:14 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
It almost can't be, by definition.

Brad has six years left at $6.66MM, will be 34 by the end of this season, and his contract is subject to recapture if he retires.

The longest contract we could give to Stastny would be seven years (unless we acquire him before signing him, in which case it would be eight), he will be 28 at the end of this season and his contract is not subject to recapture if he retires.

Throw in the fact that at this point in their careers Stastny is the better all-around player AND is likely to remain at his current level for the duration of his contract, and if he signs for an AAV anywhere close to Richards (say $7.5MM or below), there's no way the deal could be worse.

That said, I'm not advocating signing him - the analysis above is more an indictment against Richards and an argument that it is absolutely VITAL that they amnesty him this offseason.
Both players have 39 points on the season, the PPP are also pretty much a wash.

Stastny has played the majority of his time with Landeskog

Richards with Callahan

Stastny has lost a step IMO since the broken foot as well as numerous ankle injuries including one over the last couple of games.

To expect anything other than 60 points from Stastny is unlikely.

So if we are talking about

Richards at X
or
Stastny at Richards buyout plus X

being equal

I don't see the logic in making the move to buy richards out and bring stastny in.

I guess a great thing about this issue is that we will soon know how Slats wants to play things. My money is on keeping Richards

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02-02-2014, 03:47 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
I think he ultimately should be bought out, but my gut feeling is a lot of posters here will be very disappointed next summer.
He can be bought out this summer or not at all. The compliance buyout has to be done this year and a regular buyout does nothing to help the team.

The cap recapture penalty makes buying him out not an option, but a necessity. He is gone.

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02-02-2014, 08:25 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
The problem with Richards is the last 3 years of his deal. His salary in those years is 1 mil. If you think he's going to stick around for 3 years, and be an effective player, for 1 mil per year, I've got a bridge I want to sell you. When he retires early, we will be hit with a large cap penalty (in excess of 5 mil per year for 3 years).

The only way to avoid that is to give him a compliance buyout this summer. Like I said last summer, it isn't a hockey decision. It's a business decision.
This is the reason he has to go. When signed in the previous agreement--this was a retirement contract. It's all front loaded. The new agreement does not allow these kind of contracts. It's as if Richards already understood that he'd be retiring three years before his contract ended because there's little in it for him in those final 3 years. Now there's a cap hit for the Rangers that wasn't there before for years not played and it's significant.

.and Richards is no longer a point per game player. Not even close. Last year his season was a debacle--there's no telling what his future seasons are going to be but he's hardly even been at his best with us the same player that he was in Dallas or Tampa Bay. He's got to go--even if it means taking a step back for a year.

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02-02-2014, 08:48 AM
  #117
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We have so many players due for new contracts and raises, we are going to end up losing somebody on this roster, buying out Brad gives us a lot of options but can we find a 2c and resign all the guys with his boughout cap space? Or do we let somebody walk instead? If Slats really offered Callahan 6 million I assume he did that knowing Brad would be bought out so the Rangers have extra cash to play with in the offseason.

My real question is do we roll the dice and see if under AV Brassard can turn into a 2c, a 3c is much cheaper to find. My goodness how would the Rangers have looked this year if we still had Gaborik's contract on this roster and never made that trade for those players!

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02-02-2014, 09:56 AM
  #118
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Are we even sure Stastny would want to come to NY?

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02-02-2014, 10:47 AM
  #119
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I am not against buying him out, but would like to see specifically where that money should be spent
I doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if we replace him with someone better or worse or not at all. It's the contract that is the problem, not the player.

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02-02-2014, 11:12 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by donpaulo View Post
Both players have 39 points on the season, the PPP are also pretty much a wash.

Stastny has played the majority of his time with Landeskog

Richards with Callahan

Stastny has lost a step IMO since the broken foot as well as numerous ankle injuries including one over the last couple of games.

To expect anything other than 60 points from Stastny is unlikely.

So if we are talking about

Richards at X
or
Stastny at Richards buyout plus X

being equal

I don't see the logic in making the move to buy richards out and bring stastny in.

I guess a great thing about this issue is that we will soon know how Slats wants to play things. My money is on keeping Richards
As GAGline points out, the issue is the contract, not the player. You'd be getting much the same player, perhaps at a marginally higher cap hit, but without the risk of a massive cap recapture penalty. That was my point.

Honestly, my preference is that the Rangers don't keep Richards or sign Stasty, and instead figure out a way to get a solid 1C candidate in a trade for Cally (or any other deal), and then go into next year with:

Stepan
Brassard
Miller/Lindberg
Boyle/Moore/Lindberg/UFA

And then bring the solid 1C candidate up the following year.

I think that squad would actually do better than most people think next year (despite his points, I don't think Richards has been a net positive on this team) and would then be positioned to be a perpetually contender starting the year after.

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02-02-2014, 12:15 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
As GAGline points out, the issue is the contract, not the player. You'd be getting much the same player, perhaps at a marginally higher cap hit, but without the risk of a massive cap recapture penalty. That was my point.

Honestly, my preference is that the Rangers don't keep Richards or sign Stasty, and instead figure out a way to get a solid 1C candidate in a trade for Cally (or any other deal), and then go into next year with:

Stepan
Brassard
Miller/Lindberg
Boyle/Moore/Lindberg/UFA

And then bring the solid 1C candidate up the following year.

I think that squad would actually do better than most people think next year (despite his points, I don't think Richards has been a net positive on this team) and would then be positioned to be a perpetually contender starting the year after.
I'm not all that jazzed about Stastny either. Richards being bought out means hanging onto Brassard IMO and then maybe look for another option. Don't really want to be committing $7.5 mil per annum for 7 years to Stastny.

The main problem with Richards is the contract but even though he's playing better this year than last he's still not delivering the offense we thought we were going to get--so it's a little bit of both. Truly if he plans on playing past 2016-17--and he's still an offensive threat of any kind he's not going to like his $1 mil (actual remuneration) a year at that point any more than the Rangers are going to like his $6.667 mil cap hit. This summer's our last chance to get rid of this problem--it would be colossally stupid not to take it.

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02-02-2014, 01:39 PM
  #122
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I would vote no on Stastny... I would rather keep Brad if he is going to keep playing like this... I think for the most part he is having a decent season, he is also a veteran and could be good to have around for young centers.

Stastny will cost more then Richards and even though we all hated Brad last season he still put 10 more points up then Stastny did last year. Stastny while just looking at stats he has only played 80 games 2 times... he gets hurt more often, not worth the risk.

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02-02-2014, 05:03 PM
  #123
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Completely seeing where you are coming from. It would be a tough thing to ask from him. Its possible that next training camp Richards, Callahan, Girardi, Brassard, Boyle and Stralman are not here. How do you fill those holes? Free agency. So i get it. Thats why its all the more important to get roster players back in the deals for Cally and Girardi if they are made.

Some tough navigating ahead. I really hope theres a master plan in place.
there is: anything can happen!

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02-03-2014, 12:28 AM
  #124
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regarding JT Miller I was under the impression he had clearly stated he prefers NOT to play center

As far as getting a center back in exchange for Cally I think thats very wishful thinking. I doubt the return comes close to that. Teams wanting Callahan want to keep their centermen for the playoff push.

Ideally you take the best return, which most likely means a non center simply because there are 5 other positions available for teams to offer NY in return for the captain.

I also strongly believe that Girardi resigns

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02-03-2014, 12:45 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
As GAGline points out, the issue is the contract, not the player. You'd be getting much the same player, perhaps at a marginally higher cap hit, but without the risk of a massive cap recapture penalty. That was my point.

Honestly, my preference is that the Rangers don't keep Richards or sign Stasty, and instead figure out a way to get a solid 1C candidate in a trade for Cally (or any other deal), and then go into next year with:

Stepan
Brassard
Miller/Lindberg
Boyle/Moore/Lindberg/UFA

And then bring the solid 1C candidate up the following year.

I think that squad would actually do better than most people think next year (despite his points, I don't think Richards has been a net positive on this team) and would then be positioned to be a perpetually contender starting the year after.
I think we basically of the same mind, just slicing the bread differently.

I don't see another candidate of Richards quality or experience available.

I view Stastny as more of a "grass is greener". He will be more expensive than Richards, plus the cost to waive the Bradster on top of things makes me conclude NY is better off with Richards in the fold. If he continues to train with Saint Louis in the offseason as he did last year I think he can continue to put up points. After all Conn Smythe winners don't grow on trees.

Not sure I see the logic in hoping Cally magically returns NY a top line potential centerman. Can you give me a specific name or three we can discuss ? otherwise its just a pipe dream. If there is that kind of player available do you realistically think Callahan would bring him to NY ?

I know I am repeating myself but JT Miller appears to NOT want to play center. so that would leave

Stepan
Brassard RFA

I don't think Boyle or Moore returns as another team will offer them more. But I could be wrong on that. Wouldn't be the first time either.

But as I see it
Stepan
Richards
Brassard

plus whatever the best return for Cally is better than

Stepan
Brassard
...
Boyle/Moore

maybe its just a different preference on how we hope NY will fill out the roster.

but as I said we all know about all of this within the next 6-8 months

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