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How do we get better moving forward? No pun intended

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Old
02-01-2014, 07:33 AM
  #76
adsfan
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Originally Posted by Persona5 View Post
I would be fine with moving any or all of these players...
Cullen, Nystrom, Stalberg, Beck, Clune, Hellberg, Mazanec, Budish, and Shalla.

The rest of the Predators I do not want to see moved or not re-signed. If you can get future picks or prospects for any of the players above I would do it. If not I would just stick to what we have and try to fix things this offseason. Rinne alone will be a huge boost next year. Sign Legwand to a 2 year extension now. Fisher might retire after next season and at that point we will need some of our young guys to step it up. Would anyone be upset to see this line-up in 2 years?

Smith/Wilson/Forsberg
UFA signing/Legwand/Hornqvist
Bourque/Spaling/Leipsic
Salomaki/Goose/Clune or Nystrom

Josi/Weber
MDZ/Jones
Bartley/Ellis
I would be willing to trade the bolded players. Mazanec hasn't been playing as well in Milwaukee since he came back. Why would you trade Maz and Hellberg? If Rinne has a relapse / injury / slow recovery, the Preds have Hutton and Dub. Milwaukee has Darling (injured) and Toivonen.

The Ads Roundtable joked that Roscoe the mascot will get a game in goal. With your thinking, that may really happen this season! Nashville would have little backup in goal in Milwaukee, unlike when Maz saved your bacon. The Admirals will make the playoffs, unless Nashville screws everything up! They have the #6 spot and could easily move up to #5 with one win. Thirty-three games remaining with the next 5 at home.

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Old
02-01-2014, 09:38 AM
  #77
token grinder
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A lot of this is hot video game garbage. McDonald had a good year, but not a number one center. That Selanne guy played his RW. You sunk your own point about that team.

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Originally Posted by predshabs View Post
You might need to go back and check the stats of players from that 06-07 Anahiem team.
McDonald had 78pts as Center.


Look down this list and you will see what I am talking about. Seems just about every team in the NHL is set at #1 Center but we are no where close.
Anaheim-Getzlaf
Boston-Bergeron/Krejci nope
Buffalo-they hope Hodgson but probably will draft one this year. nope
Calgary-Hudler as of now will be Monohan nope
Carolina-Eric Staal
Chicago-Toews
Colorado-Duchene/MacKinnon maybe
Columbus-Johansen maybe
Dallas-Seguin not yet
Detroit-Datsyuk
Edmonton-RNH not yet
Florida-Barkov maybe one day
LA-Kopitar
Minnesota-Parise left winger...what are you watching?
Montreal-Plekanec nope
Nashville- Legwand nope
NYI-Tavares
NYR-Stepan nope
Ottawa-Spezza/Turris nope
Philadelphia-Giroux
Phoenix-Riberio/Hanzel nope
Pittsburgh-Crosby
San Jose-Thornton/Pavelski
St. Louis-Oshie another wing. plays with Backes, a very good center, but not an elite number 1 goal scoring one
Tampa Bay-Stamkos
Toronto-Kadri/Bozak nope
Vancouver-H. Sedin/Kesler nope
Washington-Backstrom
Winnipeg-Little nope


A True #1 Center could go along way for Hornqvist,Wilson,Smith and Forsberg.
SO I reviewed your list, and think I disagree about most players being number one centers. Some may be one day, but the fact you listed wings, and our own teams number 2 center makes me want to not read anything else you opine.


Last edited by token grinder: 02-01-2014 at 06:07 PM.
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02-01-2014, 01:15 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
A lot of this is hot video game garbage. McDonald had a good year, but not a number one center. That Selanne guy played his RW. You sunk your own point about that team.



SO I reviewed your list, and think I disagree about most players being number one centers. Some may be one day, but the facts you listed wings, and our own teams number 2 center makes me want to not read anything else you opine.
Urs is a misconception of a number one center and a superstar center.

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02-01-2014, 02:20 PM
  #79
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agreed predsrule.

alot of these "#1C" phrases being thrown around are pretty much whatever the writer wants them to be. it's strictly opinion, with the exception of guys like crosby, stamkos, tavares, staal, and a few others.

predshabs did have some wingers in there but i don't think he was entirely off on some that token had written off. i think it's more opinion than anything else and where the guys are playing as of right now on their current line combos.

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02-01-2014, 06:15 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Predsrule View Post
Urs is a misconception of a number one center and a superstar center.
no, I think the group think here classifies a #1 center as one that scores at a ppg clip, of which, there are only 7 or 8 in the NHL right now.

Me personally, a number one center is one that scores at 60 point per season plus, can play in all situations, and is a team leader. I may have been a too harsh on a guy like Bergeron, but I see him as Legwand with better wings. Other guys are way too young to be true number 1s.

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02-01-2014, 06:31 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
A lot of this is hot video game garbage. McDonald had a good year, but not a number one center. That Selanne guy played his RW. You sunk your own point about that team.



SO I reviewed your list, and think I disagree about most players being number one centers. Some may be one day, but the fact you listed wings, and our own teams number 2 center makes me want to not read anything else you opine.
I made that list in 15 mins at work so sorry about some being Wingers.I know Minnesota has Koivu as #1 because his brother was my favorite player I know I was in a rush It does not matter if you list Fisher or Legwand as our #1 Center the point is most teams have a either a really great or good player at #1 or have a prospect that could be some day. Nashville on the other hand does not. Who do we have or have in our system to fill this role?


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02-01-2014, 06:36 PM
  #82
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no, I think the group think here classifies a #1 center as one that scores at a ppg clip, of which, there are only 7 or 8 in the NHL right now.

Me personally, a number one center is one that scores at 60 point per season plus, can play in all situations, and is a team leader. I may have been a too harsh on a guy like Bergeron, but I see him as Legwand with better wings. Other guys are way too young to be true number 1s.
So why did you say nope to Kesler?

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02-01-2014, 06:59 PM
  #83
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You know what would be a huge way of getting better?

If suddenly a certain goaltender of Finnish nationality were to show up at Centennial during the break and discover he was back to 100%.

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02-01-2014, 07:47 PM
  #84
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Kesler has not met the 60 point threshold since 2011. He would be an upgrade for the 2C for us but he is starting his declining years. He is on a 5 mil contract for two more years which the Canuck fans even don't like. He is one of the first Vancouver players that is brought up by fans in most there trade speculation.

With all that said if he was signed here he would be the 1C since we have nobody capable of his production at the position. If DP is going to pay 5 mil for Kesler he should up the ante for a better fit.

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02-01-2014, 07:56 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by predshabs View Post
So why did you say nope to Kesler?
he has regressed from his one selke season. He is a leader and could be a number one. but he isn't. Top 6 F for sure on any team. I would love to have him, but he isn't what we need.

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02-01-2014, 08:26 PM
  #86
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Kesler has not met the 60 point threshold since 2011. He would be an upgrade for the 2C for us but he is starting his declining years. He is on a 5 mil contract for two more years which the Canuck fans even don't like. He is one of the first Vancouver players that is brought up by fans in most there trade speculation.

With all that said if he was signed here he would be the 1C since we have nobody capable of his production at the position. If DP is going to pay 5 mil for Kesler he should up the ante for a better fit.
I am not pushing for Kesler.

I guess the point I am trying to make is I believe no matter what we think of any other teams #1 Center and Some #2 it seems just about every teams #1 or #2 would be our #1 due to the weakness we have on offensive Centers.

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02-01-2014, 08:42 PM
  #87
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I am not pushing for Kesler.

I guess the point I am trying to make is I believe no matter what we think of any other teams #1 Center and Some #2 it seems just about every teams #1 or #2 would be our #1 due to the weakness we have on offensive Centers.
Pretty much the same with every player in our top 6 It would not be too difficult to find upgrades for each at this point. The thing is we are putting out a couple declining veterans and a pile of guys with POTENTIAL. And neither group is putting the puck in the net. Weber is the only offensive threat on the ice . When Weber misses the net is about the only chance the forwards have at getting a goal far too often. As Weber goes so does this team.

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02-02-2014, 12:05 AM
  #88
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Pretty much the same with every player in our top 6 It would not be too difficult to find upgrades for each at this point. The thing is we are putting out a couple declining veterans and a pile of guys with POTENTIAL. And neither group is putting the puck in the net. Weber is the only offensive threat on the ice . When Weber misses the net is about the only chance the forwards have at getting a goal far too often. As Weber goes so does this team.
So just as the op wondered what can we really do about this moving forward?

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02-02-2014, 12:43 AM
  #89
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Many things can be done, first and foremost what needs to be done is to identify which players that can be traded for assets and if the two compliance buyouts are going to be used and on who. With that said the organization is not projected to make money again this year so as many will chime in for the buyout of Goose and Stahlberg that's 15 mil that I do not think owners will agree to shell out.

What I think will be done Cullen and Sthalberg will be moved in trades that may cost another asset to sweeten the deal. Legwand will walk when they will not meet salary demands. In the offseason DP will pick up a couple more aging veteran forwards and the roster will be backfilled with young guys from Milwaukee who are questionable as being ready. The offense will struggle next year while the D gets better and Pekka comes back and they do well enough to finish 10th in the west yet again. The following year the young guys start to produce and the team flirts with the playoffs but miss out in the last week. Then Trotz is let go after 4 consecutive years from not making the playoffs.

Now most will think well its the old Byrddog being negative again, I don't see it as me being negative just going by what the front office has done in the past and having no indication whatsoever that's the situation will change. 2014 is a average to below average draft and F/A does not appear to have the players available that will fix the offense. By the first day of F/A most will be resigned by there current teams, the two available Vanek and Moulson will be scooped up quick. Vanek may well land in Minn or Detroit. Moulson will go to the highest bidder or could remain on the island.

Unless Weber , Rinne, Josi are made available for trade I don't see much return for any of the others with the exception of maybe Ellis who may well get a decent prospect from a team like Florida or Edmonton or Colorado who need help on there blueline. But he will not in any way return a 1C or top 6 winger ready now even if packaged with picks.

So to make it short it is going to be a while to turn it around. The defense looks great going forward and if Rinne makes a 100% recovery we are still set there but need a upgrade in the backup slot and to reload depth across the whole team. The cupboards are getting bare. It would have been great to have traded Hellberg last summer as I had suggested he has had a horrific season to this point and his value has taken a hit.

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02-02-2014, 02:02 AM
  #90
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[QUOTE=Byrddog;79051605]Attachment 70411

That is more illogical than my arguments. There is nothing we can do with the amount of the contract. All we can do as look at the role each player provides on the team. And Goose is one of the few that is living up to his role. And to insert another young guy that is not ready for the NHL just makes the team worse. Watson was looked at last season and was no where near ready. And looking at his body of work this season is not impressive at the AHL level.

Aaron Sims ‏@aaronadmirals Jan 31
Watson's goal moves him into a tie for 23rd on @mkeadmirals AHL goals list with 31. Tied with Andrew Hutchinson & @JuusoPuustinen

This was from friday night and he has only been in MKE about 1.5 seasons. Watson pretty much on 3rd line his whole time in MKE but still producing. In my opinion he is ready.

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02-02-2014, 03:20 AM
  #91
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So if it is a four to five year rebuild,retool,whatever. Who will want out? Will Rinne want to stay? Will Weber ask to be traded? Or will they stay the long haul and hope we can get top end talent and go for the cup before Rinnes contract is out?

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02-02-2014, 10:25 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by predshabs View Post
So if it is a four to five year rebuild,retool,whatever. Who will want out? Will Rinne want to stay? Will Weber ask to be traded? Or will they stay the long haul and hope we can get top end talent and go for the cup before Rinnes contract is out?
This day and age, there's rarely a "4 to 5 year rebuild". Also, keep in mind we're still 10th in the West without Rinne basically all season long. Hell, if we win 4 of our 10 shootouts instead of only 1, we're two points out of 8th. But, the past is the past, and we're somehow still playing some meaningful hockey into February and will HOPEFULLY get Pekka back. We only play two games in the next 4 weeks, so that's a month of free rest. If Rinne is healthy this whole season, I think we're focused more on pieces we need to get us into a better team to try and make a playoff run (I'm just saying I think we would be in the 7/8 range right now), and not questioning a potential rebuilding of the team. We made him a $7 mil/year goalie for a reason. Because he's a HUGE part of our success. There's no denying that he's a big part of our identity as a team, and when you lose him like we have, we scramble to find a new one. I'd say we've done pretty well, all things considered. I just hope he comes back and gives us some hope going into next season at the least.

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02-02-2014, 10:40 AM
  #93
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This day and age, there's rarely a "4 to 5 year rebuild". Also, keep in mind we're still 10th in the West without Rinne basically all season long. Hell, if we win 4 of our 10 shootouts instead of only 1, we're two points out of 8th. But, the past is the past, and we're somehow still playing some meaningful hockey into February and will HOPEFULLY get Pekka back. We only play two games in the next 4 weeks, so that's a month of free rest. If Rinne is healthy this whole season, I think we're focused more on pieces we need to get us into a better team to try and make a playoff run (I'm just saying I think we would be in the 7/8 range right now), and not questioning a potential rebuilding of the team. We made him a $7 mil/year goalie for a reason. Because he's a HUGE part of our success. There's no denying that he's a big part of our identity as a team, and when you lose him like we have, we scramble to find a new one. I'd say we've done pretty well, all things considered. I just hope he comes back and gives us some hope going into next season at the least.
We're definitely alot closer to being in the playoffs than we were two weeks ago. Having Rinne back would be nice for the home stretch but i'm honestly not betting on it.

For me personaly the moves im hoping to see the preds make at the deadline inculde:

-Moving Leggwand for a pick/prospect
-Trading Ellis to EDM in a package of some sort for Ganger
-Bring in Kulemin from the leafs, I don't think there looking for anything major in return.

Again this is just my opinion, love to hear some feedback

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02-02-2014, 11:37 AM
  #94
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We're definitely alot closer to being in the playoffs than we were two weeks ago. Having Rinne back would be nice for the home stretch but i'm honestly not betting on it.

For me personaly the moves im hoping to see the preds make at the deadline inculde:

-Moving Leggwand for a pick/prospect
-Trading Ellis to EDM in a package of some sort for Ganger
-Bring in Kulemin from the leafs, I don't think there looking for anything major in return.

Again this is just my opinion, love to hear some feedback
I'm not one for specific trade proposals because the odds of them happening are essentially zero, but I'm not very big on Gagner. If we actually want to trade Ellis I'd rather try and use him as part of a bigger package deal, not one that gives us a player like Gagner as the centerpiece. Personally I'm not in much of a rush to trade off players. I don't want to trade Legwand but we may get someone to massively overpay for him.

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02-02-2014, 11:51 AM
  #95
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I'm not one for specific trade proposals because the odds of them happening are essentially zero, but I'm not very big on Gagner. If we actually want to trade Ellis I'd rather try and use him as part of a bigger package deal, not one that gives us a player like Gagner as the centerpiece. Personally I'm not in much of a rush to trade off players. I don't want to trade Legwand but we may get someone to massively overpay for him.
I can understand that, I personally hope they move legwand just because for the money he's going to want/get in FA i don't have faith that he can produce at the level he's at right now for another 2-4yrs.

The only reason i propose gagner and Kulemin is because they are the two targets that i beive are most reasonable for the preds to acquire. Nashville has been noted before to have interest in Gagner, and Nasvhille scouts have been buzzing around the leafs games for the last few weeks and its more likely that there interest in Kulemin that say Kadri.

In the end its all just us talking about what we hope to happen, Im guessing no one predicted the MDZ for KK swap.

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02-02-2014, 12:44 PM
  #96
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I can understand that, I personally hope they move legwand just because for the money he's going to want/get in FA i don't have faith that he can produce at the level he's at right now for another 2-4yrs.

The only reason i propose gagner and Kulemin is because they are the two targets that i beive are most reasonable for the preds to acquire. Nashville has been noted before to have interest in Gagner, and Nasvhille scouts have been buzzing around the leafs games for the last few weeks and its more likely that there interest in Kulemin that say Kadri.

In the end its all just us talking about what we hope to happen, Im guessing no one predicted the MDZ for KK swap.
My thought process around a guy like Gagner and Kulemin isn't that I'm opposed to them on our team, I'm opposed to doing something like giving up Ellis to make it happen. As it stands right now, I'd rather keep Ellis, maybe get an overpayment from a desperate team for Legwand, and just see how things play out. Maybe Ellis is expendable, especially since Del Zotto will likely be here for a long time, but I think we should be picky as to who we trade him for, if we do.

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02-02-2014, 12:47 PM
  #97
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I can understand that, I personally hope they move legwand just because for the money he's going to want/get in FA i don't have faith that he can produce at the level he's at right now for another 2-4yrs.

The only reason i propose gagner and Kulemin is because they are the two targets that i beive are most reasonable for the preds to acquire. Nashville has been noted before to have interest in Gagner, and Nasvhille scouts have been buzzing around the leafs games for the last few weeks and its more likely that there interest in Kulemin that say Kadri.

In the end its all just us talking about what we hope to happen, Im guessing no one predicted the MDZ for KK swap.
I didnt but I think it was a good move. MDZ and Jones look pretty dang good together and they are so young.

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02-02-2014, 01:45 PM
  #98
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Attachment 70411

That is more illogical than my arguments. There is nothing we can do with the amount of the contract. All we can do as look at the role each player provides on the team. And Goose is one of the few that is living up to his role. And to insert another young guy that is not ready for the NHL just makes the team worse. Watson was looked at last season and was no where near ready. And looking at his body of work this season is not impressive at the AHL level.

Aaron Sims ‏@aaronadmirals Jan 31
Watson's goal moves him into a tie for 23rd on @mkeadmirals AHL goals list with 31. Tied with Andrew Hutchinson & @JuusoPuustinen

This was from friday night and he has only been in MKE about 1.5 seasons. Watson pretty much on 3rd line his whole time in MKE but still producing. In my opinion he is ready.

Wow theres just no way a guy that's on the 3rd line on a farm team can be anywhere near being called ready. He may be ready for a larger load there and I hope he is we sure need him to be on a fast track to be ready to play a LARGE role in Nashville but 25 points in 44 games on the farm is not encouraging at all. this would relate to yet another 30 point player in Nashville something we have loads of. The guy is only 22 and has time to improve but hes just not an improvement over anything we have here at this point. He is going to need to be a point per game guy in MKE before we can start to get excited here. That would equate to perhaps a 50 point guy here if he can get to that point, then again how many have we seen just tear it up in the minors and fall on there face here. Gamache is a good example I was very excited to see what he did up there and was so jazzed when he got here but he could not adjust his game to the NHL level. Now there will be people rthat will say its all about size that caused him to fail. Well St Louis, Nathan Gerbe, Tyler Ennis, Steve Sullivan all adjusted there game to the league. Hutchinson was also another that I was excited to see due to what he did in MKE he could never make the jump. He floundered here then in Dallas and got his last look for the Pens then just faded away.

We have a great relationship[ with MKE and really want them to do well but the quality of players we have down there right now short of FF are not real encouraging for replacing the glut of 3rd and 4th liners on Nashvilles roster.

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02-02-2014, 07:56 PM
  #99
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I can understand that, I personally hope they move legwand just because for the money he's going to want/get in FA i don't have faith that he can produce at the level he's at right now for another 2-4yrs.

The only reason i propose gagner and Kulemin is because they are the two targets that i beive are most reasonable for the preds to acquire. Nashville has been noted before to have interest in Gagner, and Nasvhille scouts have been buzzing around the leafs games for the last few weeks and its more likely that there interest in Kulemin that say Kadri.

In the end its all just us talking about what we hope to happen, Im guessing no one predicted the MDZ for KK swap.
not bad. could see it. but idk about kulemin, russian and all i believe.

i think people are forgetting we will have 20+ million this offseason. Poile only brings in aging veterans again if he misses out on others.

i think we ink stastny if he makes it to market.

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02-02-2014, 08:42 PM
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not bad. could see it. but idk about kulemin, russian and all i believe.

i think people are forgetting we will have 20+ million this offseason. Poile only brings in aging veterans again if he misses out on others.

i think we ink stastny if he makes it to market.
Stastny would be nice.

If the rumors of Edm wanting to move Eberle are true i hope GMDP would make it happen at whatever cost. Sounds like Edm doesnt want a high end piece in return, more likely a 1st a few depth roster pieces and a prospect.

Me personally, the only players i wouldnt give up to land Eberle would be Smith/Forsberg/Weber/Josi/MDZ/Jones/Rinne

But im sure a large portion of the forums disagree with me.

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