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LD Sean Day - Mississauga Steelheads, OHL (2016 Draft)

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Old
11-30-2013, 01:40 PM
  #576
Rabid Ranger
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Are you kidding me 220 lbs (100 kg) as a 15 yo tween...?! What do they put in kids porridge in Canada?
Michigan?

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11-30-2013, 01:43 PM
  #577
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I haven't had a chance to look through this whole thread, so I apologize if this has already been asked and answered, but does he have any relation to former NHLer Joe Day?

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12-01-2013, 09:14 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Brock View Post
Numbers aren't everything. The -24 is incredibly deceiving IMO. The Steelheads just aren't a great hockey team and Day has had a rotating group of defensive partners this year.

Like any rookie defenseman in this league (let alone a 15 year old one), he can have some problems with his reads in his own end and he can chase the puck at times. BUT, overall I think he's actually been better in his own end than I would have anticipated. He's already a pretty solid board player and does a good job of separating players from the puck. He's already confident enough to play physical and use his 6'2, 220lbs body. And of course, his skating ability is an asset when defending off the rush. It's just all about getting the experience on reads and situations that will further his development in his own end.

I've been incredibly impressed with him this year.
That's good to hear. It sounds like he has potential to be a good defensive player even if the results aren't there yet. But he was a -3 again yesterday and is now at -27.

Have you noticed any recent change? Because it seems the bottom dropped out of his game statistically in the last month. He was -9 in his first 16 games and -18 in his last 12 games. The first number isn't good but perhaps not unexpected for a 15 year old on a poor team, but the second is terrible regardless of age. I'm guessing he's been mostly paired with Jacob Graves during this time period. Could that be a poor partner for him?

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12-01-2013, 09:27 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by Larry Hoover View Post
Not going to name names, but I know one of the coaches for the Steelheads and he had some interesting thoughts on Sean Day. Pretty much, he's not sure how high the kids potential is...he is just so far ahead developmentally than his peers but will he hit a rock soon while the others catch up and possibly exceed him? Was surprised to hear that concern from one of the coaches. Now, he did say he could end up going #1 in his draft year and continue to develop, he just isn't sure whether he is going to continue developing and at the same rate his peers will.
So....this guy is admitting he's not good at his job? It's his job to develop this kid at this level. If he can't teach him anything because he's so far ahead in development, than start teaching him things he'll learn at the next level. He's probably ready for it.

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12-01-2013, 10:06 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by Doomsday Device View Post
That's good to hear. It sounds like he has potential to be a good defensive player even if the results aren't there yet. But he was a -3 again yesterday and is now at -27.

Have you noticed any recent change? Because it seems the bottom dropped out of his game statistically in the last month. He was -9 in his first 16 games and -18 in his last 12 games. The first number isn't good but perhaps not unexpected for a 15 year old on a poor team, but the second is terrible regardless of age. I'm guessing he's been mostly paired with Jacob Graves during this time period. Could that be a poor partner for him?
They played erie for the second straight night. The entire team was -2 or -3 pretty much.

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12-01-2013, 10:09 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by sabresEH View Post
So....this guy is admitting he's not good at his job? It's his job to develop this kid at this level. If he can't teach him anything because he's so far ahead in development, than start teaching him things he'll learn at the next level. He's probably ready for it.
I think you misunderstood what I meant. He's certain that Sean Day is great for a 15-year old. The question is how will he develop at the NHL level when his peers catch up to his physical gifts. He's uncertain of whether or not Day will continue to develop at a similar rate to his peers.

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12-01-2013, 11:43 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by Doomsday Device View Post
That's good to hear. It sounds like he has potential to be a good defensive player even if the results aren't there yet. But he was a -3 again yesterday and is now at -27.

Have you noticed any recent change? Because it seems the bottom dropped out of his game statistically in the last month. He was -9 in his first 16 games and -18 in his last 12 games. The first number isn't good but perhaps not unexpected for a 15 year old on a poor team, but the second is terrible regardless of age. I'm guessing he's been mostly paired with Jacob Graves during this time period. Could that be a poor partner for him?
-/+ is indicative of the team your on, not necessarily how good of a defensive player you are. Connor Brown was a -72 18 months ago, and here we are today, hes not much better defensively, yet hes a plus 22 after 28 games. Its one of the worst ways to attempt to judge a hockey player, because its due to the team that your on and who your playing with/against. It never actually says how good you are, more so the situation your in.

Hes doing fine, ahead of where Ekblad was at the same age, take that for what you will.

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12-02-2013, 08:40 AM
  #583
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Originally Posted by Doomsday Device View Post
That's good to hear. It sounds like he has potential to be a good defensive player even if the results aren't there yet. But he was a -3 again yesterday and is now at -27.

Have you noticed any recent change? Because it seems the bottom dropped out of his game statistically in the last month. He was -9 in his first 16 games and -18 in his last 12 games. The first number isn't good but perhaps not unexpected for a 15 year old on a poor team, but the second is terrible regardless of age. I'm guessing he's been mostly paired with Jacob Graves during this time period. Could that be a poor partner for him?
As Sean said, don't focus on +/-. The Steelheads just aren't a very good team and they're giving up a large amount of goals recently (the last few weeks).

During this time Jacob Graves has indeed been his partner, but he's also seen time with rookie Jared Walsh. Graves isn't necessarily a poor partner for Day. He's a rough, stay at home guy who allows Day to be the primary puck mover in the pairing. Gives him a bit of free reign at times.

And as I said before, he's certainly not having a poor season...or playing any worse lately. He's been consistently strong all season for a rookie defenseman in the league (despite what his +/- might indicate) and his development is coming along very nicely.

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12-02-2013, 09:06 AM
  #584
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Originally Posted by SeanLafortune View Post
-/+ is indicative of the team your on, not necessarily how good of a defensive player you are. Connor Brown was a -72 18 months ago, and here we are today, hes not much better defensively, yet hes a plus 22 after 28 games. Its one of the worst ways to attempt to judge a hockey player, because its due to the team that your on and who your playing with/against. It never actually says how good you are, more so the situation your in.

Hes doing fine, ahead of where Ekblad was at the same age, take that for what you will.
Plus minus is only useful in taken in the context of the team, not the league, and in many instances means very little.

Day is generally speaking noticably worse than the rest of the team, which means whomever he is on theice with, issues have arisen. So in this case I find it does point to player deficiencies.

That said, of course he will have a few issues. He is 15. Anyone who expected much different had unrealistic expectations. I'm pretty sure by the end of the season you'll see his +/- correct itself and come in balance with the rest of the team.

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12-02-2013, 09:28 AM
  #585
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Watched the Friday game with Erie, he looked very good in the third.

Like McDavid, there were a few "wow" moments in terms of puck poise and speed. He's also a beast, I think the exception must have been somewhat "Ekbladian" as if he was playing with kids his age he would be so physically ahead of them that his skills would set him even further apart.

It'll be interesting watching him next year and onward, definitely showed some glimpses of brilliance, but as should be expected he's clearly not "there" yet.

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12-02-2013, 01:07 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Michigan?
Pretty much the same thing, no?

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12-02-2013, 08:53 PM
  #587
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Originally Posted by ottawah View Post
Plus minus is only useful in taken in the context of the team, not the league, and in many instances means very little.

Day is generally speaking noticably worse than the rest of the team, which means whomever he is on theice with, issues have arisen. So in this case I find it does point to player deficiencies.

That said, of course he will have a few issues. He is 15. Anyone who expected much different had unrealistic expectations. I'm pretty sure by the end of the season you'll see his +/- correct itself and come in balance with the rest of the team.
But even thats subjective. Defenders who constantly play against the best forwards will almost always have a worse +/- versus teammates who are powerplay specialists and never see the ice against top competition. Plus minus is a severely flawed measuring point. Easiest way to see if someone plays well in their own end, use your eyes and judge.

That said, you are right, any 15 year old will be bad defensively. Day has been better then most expected, and should be pretty damn impressive as a 17 year old in this league.

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12-02-2013, 09:32 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by SeanLafortune View Post
But even thats subjective. Defenders who constantly play against the best forwards will almost always have a worse +/- versus teammates who are powerplay specialists and never see the ice against top competition. Plus minus is a severely flawed measuring point. Easiest way to see if someone plays well in their own end, use your eyes and judge.

That said, you are right, any 15 year old will be bad defensively. Day has been better then most expected, and should be pretty damn impressive as a 17 year old in this league.
Quick question, since when did power play production factor into +/-??

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12-02-2013, 09:37 PM
  #589
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Quick question, since when did power play production factor into +/-??
I think he means guys that play sheltered minutes 5 on 5 but get loads of PP time (ie. Cody Franson) are more likely to have a higher +/- because they aren't playing against the stiffest of competition while playing even strength.

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12-02-2013, 09:51 PM
  #590
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As Sean said, don't focus on +/-. The Steelheads just aren't a very good team and they're giving up a large amount of goals recently (the last few weeks).

During this time Jacob Graves has indeed been his partner, but he's also seen time with rookie Jared Walsh. Graves isn't necessarily a poor partner for Day. He's a rough, stay at home guy who allows Day to be the primary puck mover in the pairing. Gives him a bit of free reign at times.

And as I said before, he's certainly not having a poor season...or playing any worse lately. He's been consistently strong all season for a rookie defenseman in the league (despite what his +/- might indicate) and his development is coming along very nicely.

Let me ask u a question, if Darnell Nurse played in Day's spot this year in the exact same scenario's and same ice time, would the plus/minus numbers be identical on the Steelheads? It would be tough to say yes they would be. If u want to take it further to the extreme, insert Chara in there...is he -27? Its not a knock to suggest the young man needs to polish up his own zone, its normal for a 15 or 16 yr old. I agree that -27 does not tell the whole story about him, not at all. It may suggest he needs to polish up work in his own zone and I think thats fair by watching him play this year a handful of times, its expected for any young man. He is doing great and I think his future is extremely bright in all zones.

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12-02-2013, 10:00 PM
  #591
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I think he means guys that play sheltered minutes 5 on 5 but get loads of PP time (ie. Cody Franson) are more likely to have a higher +/- because they aren't playing against the stiffest of competition while playing even strength.
Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Makes sense to me. My opinion is +/- rating is one of the most overrated statistics (not as much as GAA though). Examples.....

Ron Francis was a -6 during his career, but is widely known as one of the better two-way centers to ever play the game.

Bob Gainey won the Selke trophy in 79/80, while he was -2.

On the other hand, Jaromir Jagr is currently +289 in his career, but has been regarded as one of the biggest "floaters" in the league.

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12-02-2013, 10:10 PM
  #592
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Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Makes sense to me. My opinion is +/- rating is one of the most overrated statistics (not as much as GAA though). Examples.....

Ron Francis was a -6 during his career, but is widely known as one of the better two-way centers to ever play the game.

Bob Gainey won the Selke trophy in 79/80, while he was -2.

On the other hand, Jaromir Jagr is currently +289 in his career, but has been regarded as one of the biggest "floaters" in the league.
I agree that it's very overrated. There are more factors than individual play that come into play when taking +/- into account.

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12-02-2013, 10:28 PM
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Quick question, since when did power play production factor into +/-??
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Originally Posted by Patmac40 View Post
I think he means guys that play sheltered minutes 5 on 5 but get loads of PP time (ie. Cody Franson) are more likely to have a higher +/- because they aren't playing against the stiffest of competition while playing even strength.
Exactly, thought it was fairly well put out, but thanks for that.

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12-02-2013, 10:29 PM
  #594
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Originally Posted by No Reimer Reason View Post
Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Makes sense to me. My opinion is +/- rating is one of the most overrated statistics (not as much as GAA though). Examples.....

Ron Francis was a -6 during his career, but is widely known as one of the better two-way centers to ever play the game.

Bob Gainey won the Selke trophy in 79/80, while he was -2.

On the other hand, Jaromir Jagr is currently +289 in his career, but has been regarded as one of the biggest "floaters" in the league.
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I agree that it's very overrated. There are more factors than individual play that come into play when taking +/- into account.

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12-03-2013, 07:06 AM
  #595
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But even thats subjective. Defenders who constantly play against the best forwards will almost always have a worse +/- versus teammates who are powerplay specialists and never see the ice against top competition. Plus minus is a severely flawed measuring point. Easiest way to see if someone plays well in their own end, use your eyes and judge.

It is obviously easier seeing in person.

In this case though, as his D is a lot worst than the other D men, and he always will have another out with him, they are obviously rotating D men in and out with him and regardless of whom is out there the +/- happens.

Comparing outliers of the +/- on the same team is the only time I find that stat useful, but even then its still somewhat limited.

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12-03-2013, 12:15 PM
  #596
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Let me ask u a question, if Darnell Nurse played in Day's spot this year in the exact same scenario's and same ice time, would the plus/minus numbers be identical on the Steelheads? It would be tough to say yes they would be. If u want to take it further to the extreme, insert Chara in there...is he -27? Its not a knock to suggest the young man needs to polish up his own zone, its normal for a 15 or 16 yr old. I agree that -27 does not tell the whole story about him, not at all. It may suggest he needs to polish up work in his own zone and I think thats fair by watching him play this year a handful of times, its expected for any young man. He is doing great and I think his future is extremely bright in all zones.
There's no question that he has some things to work on. I didn't mean to imply that he was perfect or wasn't responsible for some of those "minuses." He's a 15/16 year old rookie, of course he has his faults. What I was simply stating was that he hasn't been as bad defensively as his +/- suggests. In fact, I expected him to struggle more than he has defensively. All things considered, I've been impressed with his potential in his own end and his ability to develop into an elite two-way defender.

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12-12-2013, 10:47 PM
  #597
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I have attended most of the home games and what I see is a good young player on a pretty mediocre team. Day gets lots of ice time but is generally not paired with the top forwards so not much scoring happening to balance out goals against - whether his fault or that he just happened to be on the ice (like against Guelph where the Guelph player looped a shot form centre to get a change and the puck does a funny bounce over the goalie's arm). His PP unit is pretty productive, whether he is on #1 or #2 unit but none of those goals count on +/-. In interviews he has said the coaches are asking him to breakouts and hold back to focus on the defensive side of the game so his previous offense threat has been toned down for a while on purpose. At the end of the day, the coaches obviously know his contribution and play are way better than the +/- rating since they keep dressing him and keep giving him a regular shift. Same cannot be said for all the D even though they are down to 6 players.

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12-22-2013, 02:38 AM
  #598
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He has the worst +/- on the team with -26 (and he missed 3 games).

Has he been rushed to the OHL?

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12-22-2013, 02:59 AM
  #599
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He has the worst +/- on the team with -26 (and he missed 3 games).

Has he been rushed to the OHL?
It's really not a big deal. Slater Koekkoek was a -26 last year with Peterborough and he was a 10th overall pick the year before. As a 16 year old, he was a -29. He's a +36 right now with Windsor. Roland McKeown was a -24 last year with Kingston and he's now a +26. Sean Monahan was a -18 in the OHL last year and he's in the NHL now lol

The stat means nothing unless it's put into context.

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02-02-2014, 09:44 PM
  #600
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He has the worst +/- on the team with -26 (and he missed 3 games).

Has he been rushed to the OHL?
His plus minus stat, tells a very accurate story right now. His defensive zone play is below average right now. Lack of compete, stop's skating and just watches as chaos increases around him. Its actually quite puzzling to watch at times the situations that are happening and he doesnt seem to mind at all. Little urgency when the puck is in dangerous spots. He comes to life when his team has possession though but needs to grow his game in his own zone, no question about it.

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