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How do we get better moving forward? No pun intended

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Old
02-02-2014, 08:53 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by wentz22 View Post
Stastny would be nice.

If the rumors of Edm wanting to move Eberle are true i hope GMDP would make it happen at whatever cost. Sounds like Edm doesnt want a high end piece in return, more likely a 1st a few depth roster pieces and a prospect.

Me personally, the only players i wouldnt give up to land Eberle would be Smith/Forsberg/Weber/Josi/MDZ/Jones/Rinne

But im sure a large portion of the forums disagree with me.
If Edmonton put Eberle on the block, I think he'd fetch a huge return. Every other team in the NHL would offer something.

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02-02-2014, 09:00 PM
  #102
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If Edmonton put Eberle on the block, I think he'd fetch a huge return. Every other team in the NHL would offer something.
Agree

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Old
02-02-2014, 11:29 PM
  #103
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If Edmonton put Eberle on the block, I think he'd fetch a huge return. Every other team in the NHL would offer something.
except i have read things saying they aren't requiring a huge return. I would imagine the same but i wouldn't be surprised if it was a 1st, a decent roster piece, and a prospect.

think, edmonton would also probably entertain and lean towards offers from teams that are in the 1-16 area of the draft....soooo we could be in the race.

Since the draft is average this year...

NSH: Eberle
EDM: 1st, Watson, Stalberg

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02-03-2014, 01:17 AM
  #104
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except i have read things saying they aren't requiring a huge return. I would imagine the same but i wouldn't be surprised if it was a 1st, a decent roster piece, and a prospect.

think, edmonton would also probably entertain and lean towards offers from teams that are in the 1-16 area of the draft....soooo we could be in the race.

Since the draft is average this year...

NSH: Eberle
EDM: 1st, Watson, Stalberg
I'd pass if I were the Oilers. This is the Hemsky, Petry, and a pick for Josi in reverse.

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02-03-2014, 07:44 AM
  #105
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except i have read things saying they aren't requiring a huge return. I would imagine the same but i wouldn't be surprised if it was a 1st, a decent roster piece, and a prospect.

think, edmonton would also probably entertain and lean towards offers from teams that are in the 1-16 area of the draft....soooo we could be in the race.

Since the draft is average this year...

NSH: Eberle
EDM: 1st, Watson, Stalberg
Its a start, but i dont think Stalberg could be part of the deal. Maybe something like:

NSH: Eberle
EDM: 1st, Watson or Bourque, Wilson or Ellis

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02-03-2014, 08:00 AM
  #106
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If we're going after a forward like Eberle, a forward going back is probably going to happen. It's going to cost Wilson or Smith plus someone like Josi for Edmonton to even be interested. Are we willing to give up a top pairing defenseman to get Eberle? Doubt it.

So after looking at the standings and seeing how we've climbed back in to the race somehow, what do we do now? Are we buyers, sellers, stand pat? If someone offers us a great package for Legwand do we take it knowing that the playoffs this year are out at that point but know that the future is brighter or do you hold on to Legwand, squeak into the playoffs, maybe and take your chances against one of the three power houses in the conference? Cullen and Stalberg have not been missed from the lineup terribly. They could be gone. If you could get a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for Legwand, Cullen and Stalberg, do you do it?

All the talk about a top center is a great discussion because people have different ways of looking at what a top 3 forward is. Some say, there are 30 number 1 centers and 60 number 1/2 wingers because every team has a top line so there must be 90 top 3 forwards in essence. I always counter that point with, is Malkin a top 3 forward or is he a number 2 center because he plays behind Crosby? So here's the question, does it go by how many teams are in the league and there are truly 90 top 3 players, by the player itself, productivity or some combo above?

I really think there are tiers to this. There are the elite players which are the obvious ones then you have guys that fall in to the great category that are somewhere between top 3's and top 6's. You then have a list of guys that are good players that are top 6's. You then have a chunk of guys who are your bottom 6/sometimes good enough to play in the top 6 guys and then everyone else.

I think an interesting way to go about it would be to make a list of some of these types of players and see where these guys would fall according to people's views on what is a top 3 versus top 6 versus bottom 6 player. Other things to consider would be who guys play with. Are Kunitz and Dupuis top 3 forwards or are they very good top 6's because they play with Crosby?

Me personally, I go by talent alone, not by there are 30 teams so there must be 90 top 3 talents in the NHL. I may make a list later on if my headache goes away.

My point of making this thread was where is this team going to be in 3-5 years. Many of the guys we're talking about today won't be here because of age and/or expiring contracts: Legwand, Fisher, Cullen, Goose, Nystrom and Stalberg so I was curious what people thought we might do with them because of this and if we would be a better team with them gone and the youngsters, trade acquisitions or free agent signings making us a deeper roster up front.

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02-03-2014, 08:18 AM
  #107
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I'd pass if I were the Oilers. This is the Hemsky, Petry, and a pick for Josi in reverse.
If thats a top 3 pick i do it ^_^

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02-03-2014, 09:26 AM
  #108
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The bigger question is how the hell did we get in striking distance of the Post Season??

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02-03-2014, 09:45 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by AintLifeGrand View Post
The bigger question is how the hell did we get in striking distance of the Post Season??
By not actually being as disastrously bad as previously believed?

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02-03-2014, 10:01 AM
  #110
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I can understand that, I personally hope they move legwand just because for the money he's going to want/get in FA i don't have faith that he can produce at the level he's at right now for another 2-4yrs.

The only reason i propose gagner and Kulemin is because they are the two targets that i beive are most reasonable for the preds to acquire. Nashville has been noted before to have interest in Gagner, and Nasvhille scouts have been buzzing around the leafs games for the last few weeks and its more likely that there interest in Kulemin that say Kadri.

In the end its all just us talking about what we hope to happen, Im guessing no one predicted the MDZ for KK swap.
It's also much more likely that Kulemin is moved. Kadri has been beasting lately, and is likely moving himself off the trading block. Even if he is moved, I'm not sure the Preds have what it takes to get him. Nonis had been pretty clear he won't move for picks or veterans, and would only move him for an upgrade at forward. Don't think the Preds have that unfortunately.

Kulemin could be had. Not for super cheap though.

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02-03-2014, 10:28 AM
  #111
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It's also much more likely that Kulemin is moved. Kadri has been beasting lately, and is likely moving himself off the trading block. Even if he is moved, I'm not sure the Preds have what it takes to get him. Nonis had been pretty clear he won't move for picks or veterans, and would only move him for an upgrade at forward. Don't think the Preds have that unfortunately.

Kulemin could be had. Not for super cheap though.
I think Kulemin would do very well on this team, I'v heard the opposite when it comes to Nonnis trade requirments, at times it sounded like a veteran top 9 guy is something they were looking for, But who really knows with Nonnis. The hardest part about making a trade with the leafs at the deadline i believe, would be making everything fit under the cap.

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02-03-2014, 10:32 AM
  #112
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Looks like Vanek won't be resigning in the Isle.

Hypothetical: what would you offer if you were David Poile?

Remember 7 year max.

Would Poile offer a 7x7. 7x8?

I can't see him doing that.

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02-03-2014, 10:42 AM
  #113
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Looks like Vanek won't be resigning in the Isle.

Hypothetical: what would you offer if you were David Poile?

Remember 7 year max.

Would Poile offer a 7x7. 7x8?

I can't see him doing that.
Vanek is a tough sell to me honestly, a 7 year deal would put him at 37. What percentage of forwards play that late into there career without a drop off in production.

If Vanek would talk about a 4-5 year deal id be interested. It would probably mean paying him anywhere from 7.5-8.5M

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02-03-2014, 10:45 AM
  #114
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Then again, Looking at his stats, Vanek has never scored less that 25G in a season, he had 20 in the lockout year, and has 19 currently. Maybe he's the guy that the preds need to bite the bullet on, overpay on term and cost and just ride it out.

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02-03-2014, 10:49 AM
  #115
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I think Kulemin would do very well on this team, I'v heard the opposite when it comes to Nonnis trade requirments, at times it sounded like a veteran top 9 guy is something they were looking for, But who really knows with Nonnis. The hardest part about making a trade with the leafs at the deadline i believe, would be making everything fit under the cap.
I think Kulemin would be a very good fit on the Preds. He's an interesting player. He can play in most situations, including the top 6. He's a smart player, and he's willing to go to the dirty areas. He works hard and he plays the game the right way. Put him with a skilled player, and he's going to create space for that player to work. The biggest thing though is that people expect that this will lead to points, where Kulemin plays a more cerebral game, one that actually results in less stat success but more team success (if that makes sense). He'll help a line get a goal, and very much be a huge part of that goal, but he won't be on the stat sheet for it.

I'm not really sure what Nonis' asking price could be, I guess I was just saying he's not going to be had for like a 3rd or 4th. He's the kind of guy playoff teams will love, and I can see him getting a pretty decent return. That really depends on if Nonis is looking for picks/prospects or players though. I'm not really sure I see the value in swapping him for a top 9 forward. Maybe the right defender could make sense though.

To be honest, Kulemin really isn't what the Preds need though. They have enough top 9 type players like him. They need more skill, which unfortunately is harder to acquire.

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02-03-2014, 10:51 AM
  #116
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Then again, Looking at his stats, Vanek has never scored less that 25G in a season, he had 20 in the lockout year, and has 19 currently. Maybe he's the guy that the preds need to bite the bullet on, overpay on term and cost and just ride it out.
Vanek's a talented player, and given the market the Preds are in, they likely have to overpay to get him. It might not be the worst thing in the world though. Between adding Vanek, adding a forward in this draft, and Forsberg/Smith/Watson/Wilson it coudl really revamp the offense.

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02-03-2014, 11:02 AM
  #117
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The bigger question is how the hell did we get in striking distance of the Post Season??
7 points from 6-12th right now, so I'd say we're within striking distance. You can debate whether or not we've got the horses to be competitive in the first round, however.

I think the call on everything comes down to Peks. If he's healthy, GMDP rides it out and takes a shot at the POs. Maybe he moves Stalberg, since he's not contributing and honestly looks like a bad fit not only this year but next, as well, with the commitments we've got to the roster. You don't trade Leggy if you're making a run, and unless you sign Leggy you don't move Cullen.

Now, the exception would be someone who loves Ellis. He's simply not playing anything more than 3rd pair here, ever, and 2nd unit PP. I'm ok with hanging onto him for a few more years for that, but if someone came figuring they could use him as 2nd pair guy and PP QB, that's a deal Poile has to think about.

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02-03-2014, 11:03 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by theIceWookie View Post
I think Kulemin would be a very good fit on the Preds. He's an interesting player. He can play in most situations, including the top 6. He's a smart player, and he's willing to go to the dirty areas. He works hard and he plays the game the right way. Put him with a skilled player, and he's going to create space for that player to work. The biggest thing though is that people expect that this will lead to points, where Kulemin plays a more cerebral game, one that actually results in less stat success but more team success (if that makes sense). He'll help a line get a goal, and very much be a huge part of that goal, but he won't be on the stat sheet for it.

I'm not really sure what Nonis' asking price could be, I guess I was just saying he's not going to be had for like a 3rd or 4th. He's the kind of guy playoff teams will love, and I can see him getting a pretty decent return. That really depends on if Nonis is looking for picks/prospects or players though. I'm not really sure I see the value in swapping him for a top 9 forward. Maybe the right defender could make sense though.

To be honest, Kulemin really isn't what the Preds need though. They have enough top 9 type players like him. They need more skill, which unfortunately is harder to acquire.
Thats a great explanation of Kulemin, My buddie is a huge leafs fan and he's the one that started pointing out Kulemin to me. And your exactly right he doesn't put up huge points most night but he does the little things that lead to plays, perfect exampe is the leafs most recent game against Tampa. The first goal that kadri scored was directly because of kulemin checking his man on the boards and knocking the puck lose.

Id also take Kulemin over any of our current bottom 9 (Cullen,Bourque,Stalberg)

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02-03-2014, 11:09 AM
  #119
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The bigger question is how the hell did we get in striking distance of the Post Season??

Going 6-2-2 helps alot haha.

Im sure most of us can agree that if the Preds from Oct/Nov went down 2-0 against the Blues the game would have been over and became a blow out. Seems like the guys are finally starting to get on the same page. You could see it once the preds got 1 goal that they had all kinds of new energy. If only we could fix that whole, give up a goal 30 seconds after we score trend.

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02-03-2014, 11:27 AM
  #120
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Vanek is a tough sell to me honestly, a 7 year deal would put him at 37. What percentage of forwards play that late into there career without a drop off in production.

If Vanek would talk about a 4-5 year deal id be interested. It would probably mean paying him anywhere from 7.5-8.5M
Yeah, some good points brought up here. I'm worried about him being at the point that his body's going to start breaking down. He's managed to steer clear of the injury bug for the most part, but he's also a player with more than just finesse to his game, and that definitely takes a toll when guys start to hit his age. I agree that I probably look at going about 5 years at the most due to the above concerns.

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02-03-2014, 01:35 PM
  #121
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This is how I would see all the teams top line centers and if they really are number one's.

Anaheim-Getzlaf-Yes
Boston-Bergeron-Yes
Buffalo-Hodgson-Nope
Calgary-Monohan-Nope
Carolina-Eric Staal-Yes
Chicago-Toews-Yes
Colorado-Duchene-Yes
Columbus-Johansen-Nope
Dallas-Seguin-Yes
Detroit-Datsyuk-Yes
Edmonton-RNH-Nope
Florida-Barkov-Nope
LA-Kopitar-Yes
Minnesota-Koivu-Yes
Montreal-Plekanec-Nope
Nashville-Fisher-Nope
NYI-Tavares-Yes
NYR-Stepan-Nope
Ottawa-Spezza-Yes
Philadelphia-Giroux-Yes
Phoenix-Riberio-Nope
Pittsburgh-Crosby/Malkin-Yes
San Jose-Thornton-Yes
St. Louis-Backes-Yes
Tampa Bay-Stamkos-Yes
Toronto-Bozak-Nope
Vancouver-H. Sedin-Yes
Washington-Backstrom-Yes
Winnipeg-Little-Nope

So by my account 18 of the 30 teams have number one centers. One team has two of them with the Penguins. NYR, Florida, Edmonton, Columbus, and Calgary have young guys that may take on that role and run with it. Even if those 5 young guys become number one's you still have 7 teams out there looking for that top line center.

Lets look at those 7 teams left and see if they are doing well without that true number one and why.

Buffalo with Hodson. Their record speaks for itself. The team is rebuilding and will likely get the number one pick in the next draft.

Montreal has Plekanec and while he isn't what I would call a true number one he is a very good player. It doesn't hurt that he play along one of the better power forwards in the game in Pacioretty. They are in the playoffs as it stands now.

Nashville with Fisher who really should be a second line center. He has little help on the top line as well with Nystrom and Hornqvist. None of these players would be considered top line talent.

Pheonix with whoever you want to say is their number one with Ribero, Hanzel, Vermette. None of them are true number ones but all three would rival our centers for that top spot. No real top line talent on this team but they are deep. They are currenty not in the playoffs but are close.

Toronto has Kessel and JVR to surround their top line center. Hard not to do well with those two on your wings. They are currently in the playoffs and I think they will remain there easily.

Winnipeg has Little who plays with Kane and Wheeler. Both better wings than what the Predators have. They are not nearly as deep as the redators though and are tied in record with the Preds as well.

The first thing when listing these teams that jumps out at me is the fact only Montreal and Toronto will likely make the playoffs this season. What do those teams have that the other don't? Top line wingers to boost the play of their not so number one centers.

Simple fact is to be a cup contending team year in and year out you really do need a true number one center. It doesn't have to be someone who scores at a point per game pace either. Bergeron is one of the best centers in the game because he not only produces points very well, he also excells at faceoffs and defensively. It isn't all about points.

In the end the Predators need that top line talent in some form with it being a number one center or some true number one wingers. The center would be best but I think we all would take anything at this point.

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02-03-2014, 02:04 PM
  #122
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34yo Joe Thorton has 7g and 33a playing with high-end Fs; 33yo David Legwand has 10g and 29a playing with Smith and various 3rd/4th liners. I'm sure if I wanted to dig through the list I could find a few more examples where we continue to undervalue Leggy, and to some extent Fish, and over-value other team players.

That said, I agree with the sentiment - it's not about "get a center", it's about getting 2 top-line guys, whatever they play, and at least one MUST BE a reliable goal scorer.

and yes, I know JT has put up historically better numbers; my point was A) any given year folks don't necessarily put up the numbers and B) age matters, and some of those guys time has passed them by and they aren't as elite as Sid, etc., anymore.

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02-03-2014, 02:11 PM
  #123
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34yo Joe Thorton has 7g and 33a playing with high-end Fs; 33yo David Legwand has 10g and 29a playing with Smith and various 3rd/4th liners. I'm sure if I wanted to dig through the list I could find a few more examples where we continue to undervalue Leggy, and to some extent Fish, and over-value other team players.

That said, I agree with the sentiment - it's not about "get a center", it's about getting 2 top-line guys, whatever they play, and at least one MUST BE a reliable goal scorer.

and yes, I know JT has put up historically better numbers; my point was A) any given year folks don't necessarily put up the numbers and B) age matters, and some of those guys time has passed them by and they aren't as elite as Sid, etc., anymore.
Thorton has 55 point through 56 games this season so far and has had 7 years with 80 points or more. Legwand has never gone above 63 points. Thats a huge difference.

I do agree with your second statement though.

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02-03-2014, 03:42 PM
  #124
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I've been very bi-polar on Legwand this season. But I think we should keep him and ship out Bourque and Stalberg. Think we should keep cullen too and transition him to wing.

Realistically I think Legwand could hit 60 pts this season and be good for 40-70 (if playing with the right line mates) for the next 3 or 4 years. Plus he would be a welcome veteran presence for 2015-2016 once Fisher retires.

Would be all about signing Stas to a 5 year deal for 35 mil
Wouldn't also mind throwing ~6 per year for Moulson for 5 years


Forsberg-Stasny-Smith forsberg has 2 dudes with play making skills that can dish to him- Forsberg=finisher. Stastny+Smith =Fire

Moulson-Wilson-Hornqvist -Hornqvist trolling goaltenders providing ample distraction for Moulson to convert his deadly touch around the net into goals=stanley cup. Wilson also has a finisher to pass to

Cullen- Legwand-Watson/Sissons (could be converted to wingers) Watson/Sissons get 2 vet 2 way linemates to learn from

Fisher-Gaustad-Nystrom - Would be the best 4th line in the league

One thing that seems apparent about this theoretical team is the depth at center- While its not "elite", its solid as a rock.

Also like the fact that 5 of the 6 guys in the bottom 6 are all killer at taking faceoffs.

Combine that offense corps with

Weber-Josi
Jones-MDZ
Ellis-Ekholm

and we have a top 7 team in the league.

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02-03-2014, 03:44 PM
  #125
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Looks like Vanek won't be resigning in the Isle.

Hypothetical: what would you offer if you were David Poile?

Remember 7 year max.

Would Poile offer a 7x7. 7x8?

I can't see him doing that.
If Vanek turned down the rumored offer from the Isles to play with Tavares the rest of his career, there is no way in hell he would come here. Move along Pred fans nothing to see here.

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