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Grabovsky, Kostitsyn, Milroy next season?

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Old
02-05-2007, 09:41 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
That's a sorry looking lineup...3 rookies, 2 second year players, 1 unproven player (Perezho)

This team needs a balance of young players and veterans.
agreed!! We need Johnson (great 2 way player) in there somewhere.

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02-05-2007, 09:41 AM
  #27
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Higgins-Koivu-Latendresse
Kostytsin-Grabovski-Kovalev
Perezhogin-Pleckanek-Johnson
Bégin- Lappierre- Streit

now that's a great line-up with a HUGE potential right there, no Ryder, no Samsonov, a great 3rd line center who's young and hard working. A 2nd line center with hands and good playmaking skills. More talent then 95% of all teams. I can only think of Buffalo that has more. Yes it's avery young and inexperienced team but Grabo is 23 years old and Kosty is 22 so there not exactly kids anymore.

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02-05-2007, 09:46 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Guillaume the great! View Post
Higgins-Koivu-Latendresse
Kostytsin-Grabovski-Kovalev
Perezhogin-Pleckanek-Johnson
Bégin- Lappierre- Streit

now that's a great line-up with a HUGE potential right there, no Ryder, no Samsonov, a great 3rd line center who's young and hard working. A 2nd line center with hands and good playmaking skills. More talent then 95% of all teams. I can only think of Buffalo that has more. Yes it's avery young and inexperienced team but Grabo is 23 years old and Kosty is 22 so there not exactly kids anymore.
i don't mind this at all. not bad.

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02-05-2007, 10:14 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Guillaume the great! View Post
Higgins-Koivu-Latendresse
Kostytsin-Grabovski-Kovalev
Perezhogin-Pleckanek-Johnson
Bégin- Lappierre- Streit

now that's a great line-up with a HUGE potential right there, no Ryder, no Samsonov, a great 3rd line center who's young and hard working. A 2nd line center with hands and good playmaking skills. More talent then 95% of all teams. I can only think of Buffalo that has more. Yes it's avery young and inexperienced team but Grabo is 23 years old and Kosty is 22 so there not exactly kids anymore.
Personally I'd rather save the 2m+ that Johnson would cost us and give his 3rd line spot to Streit, seeing as he's only a fraction of the cost (.6m) not to mention he's better defensively and pretty much as good offensively. We could possibly get some other depth elsewhere...Someone gritty, a pest, someone that would make us less of pushovers, a Chris Neil type of player.

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02-05-2007, 10:33 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Personally I'd rather save the 2m+ that Johnson would cost us and give his 3rd line spot to Streit, seeing as he's only a fraction of the cost (.6m) not to mention he's better defensively and pretty much as good offensively. We could possibly get some other depth elsewhere...Someone gritty, a pest, someone that would make us less of pushovers, a Chris Neil type of player.
We need Johnson's experience, he's as reliable as they come and with such a young line-up it's a must, because other then that, ya we'd be clearing another 2 mil witch would be used to sign our 2 D's

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02-05-2007, 10:33 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
If they continue scoring at the pace that they have been for the last 1-2 months (or so) all 3 should easily reach the 70 point mark (the last to do so is Jason Ward I believe). They seemingly (and I don't get to watch very many bulldog games so maybe Qui can pitch in) form a very good very productive line with Milroy seemingly being the 2nd coming of Ryder (keep in mind that I've only seen him 10 games roughly). Does anyone believe that Gainey will make a move to trade away the more expendable players on the current roster for a few spots for these kids?
AK, MG and DM do indeed form a very good line and have produced enough to save the Dogs on a few occassions. However, Don Lever has recently split them up for no other reason than to spread the scoring out across more than one line. Current lines of favour in Hamilton are (l-r) Kostitsyn-Grabovski-D'agostini and Lemieux-Locke-Milroy. But when things get tough for the Dogs and they need a goal, the Kost-Grabs-Milroy line gets reformed and as witnessed last Friday against Philadelphia, they got the job done. As long as the Dogs are scoring, the trio will be mixed but when the new lines slow down, back to the tried and tested.

As far as the way they are playing, Milroy has played a different game to AK and MG this year. He isn't as skilled as these guys (obviously), but where he has shone is in his consistency. He has been the most consistant Bulldog so far this year and has been solid both ends of the ice while continuing to score at a solid rate. AK and MG on the other hand go through patches. Sometimes they just don't have much of an impact, sometimes they are dangerous but just can't finish and sometimes they go on impressive scoring sprees. Both have improved their games this year although I'm still a little concerned about Grabovskis play with the puck in his own zone. To put it simply, he can be very eratic. He can take the puck behind his own net and beat three opponents before leaving his zone and he can also make so very lax passes. He doesn't always get his head up when making a pass which may be the only downfall to him playing with Kostitsyn. In the last game, I saw Grabs make a play to win the puck on the far boards in his zone and make an instinctual pass to Kostitsyn who was leaving the zone up the middle. I saw him make the exact same play about 5 minutes later only Kostitsyn wasn't in that part of the ice and the pass was picked off. The chemistry they have is fantastic, but Grabs needs to make sure of his instincts a few times at this level before acting on them.

I'm not sure what Milroys future is, especially on a team loaded with forwards. In my opinion, if he wants a spot on the Habs next year, he has to continue his solid play, be a leader and an almost go to guy in the playoffs (Dogs will get there if they keep this form up) and show up at camp next year in even better shape than this year. He turned up this year in the best shape of his career and he is going to have to push hard and win a spot over someone else. I'm not entirely sure where he would fit best on the Habs, although I'd start him on the 4th line as a sort of solid, all round guy to round out a couple of spark plugs to see how he does (although I'd LOVE to see a Begin - Lapierre - Ferland line). He doesn't strike me as a guy who could be put on a typical shut down 3rd line at NHL level and he would have to be seriously impressive to win a scoring line spot, which leaves the 4th line, and he isn't a bang and crash player. IMO, he may be able to win a spot but I just think he would struggle to find a place in Montreals roster unless a number of forwards are moved out the way for him. Then again, maybe management sees something in him or expects further development from him and will give him a shot. Bit early to tell but at this point, I'd be a little suprised to see him make it.

As for the rest of next years team, I think that a lot of that will be decided upon review of Plekanec and Grabovskis seasons. Can Grabovski be a 2nd line centre in the NHL? Can Plekanec be a 3rd line centre in the NHL? If management thinks so, those positions are sorted and quite cheaply too. It also likely means Bonk is gone and that is more money that can be saved for Souray/UFA/RFA raises. If management deems neither Pleks or Grabs ca be a 2nd line centre on a serious contender (which is what they want to become) then that means looking outside the organisation and spending some substantial money. Which could affect Souray being resigned (if that is a possibility) or getting another Dman.

I think that the two of them can be 2nd and 3rd line centres, but whether management shares this view, time will tell. The advantage Grabs should have is playing with Kost on a scoring line. Playing with someone he already knows will give him a chance to concentrate on the other areas of his game in the NHL instead of struggling to form chemistry with new players.

As far as having a guess at lines next year:

(1) - Koivu - Latendresse
Kostitsyn - Grabovski - Kovalev
(2) - Plekanec - Johnson
Begin - Lapierre - Ferland/Streit/someone who can fight

(1) - Likely players being Higgins and Ryder, maybe Pez if he can turn his game round. Although if Ryder doesn't make this spot his own, I don't see him fitting in elsewhere. I think Gainey might prefer to not have the trouble resigning him and save a little money. Higgins could potentially be put on any line and fit in. I think Pez is worth keeping around as he still can improve and be versatile at a cheap price. Carbo mentioned recently that he loves the versatility he gets from having Streit around, with a little more work Pez maybe become the forward equivalent. Could round out a scoring line or help out the third.

(2) - Likely players being Higgins or Perezhogin, maybe a UFA if Pez isn't kept around.

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02-05-2007, 10:34 AM
  #32
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i don't mind this at all. not bad.
hey your the one who called me biased!

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02-05-2007, 11:55 AM
  #33
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I was under the impression he was more benefiting from playing with better players (i.e. Kostitsyn, Grabovsky) than actually being good.
I'm not so sure. Lever just reunited these guys after breaking them up a couple of weeks ago. Strangely enough, it worked well enough to contribute to the current upturn in the Dogs play.

I would like to see Milroy get a shot. I'm guessing he might be the type of player who can makes an easy transition from the AHL to NHL because of his work ethic and because his fundamentals are so sound. I don't believe he'll be subject to waivers next season though, which might see him end up in Hamilton due to the body count.

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02-05-2007, 12:05 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
I wouldn't call Ryder a veteran.

Also, I don't think that by losing Sammy and Ryder that we become more soft...Quite the contrary, Grabovsky fights for pucks. He's been the hardest working player in alot of Hamilton's games and if he can add 10ish pds in the off-season (which I guarantee he will with Scott Livingstone) he will be our best option at 2nd line center, better than any FA signing we can afford. As for Kostitsyn, he's definitely less soft than Samsonov.

Our top 6 wouldn't be much less "soft" than Buffalos or Ottawa's...and our bottom 6 would be very comparable; with Begin, Lapierre and Ferland (I would imagine Carbo would want him on next years team).

How about we give these a look;

Higgins - Koivu - Latendresse
Kostitsyn - Grabovsky - Kovalev
Perez - Plekanec - Streit
Begin - Lapierre - Ferland

The 4th line would do an amazing amount of checking, the 3rd line would be one of the greatest forchecking lines we've had in ages... The top 2 lines would provide very good scoring.
That line-up is skilled but inexperienced and physically weak. It's not going to win many games that come down to a physical battle. Even in the new NHL you sometimes have to be able to smash your opponent into submission. Especially in the playoffs and tight divisional rivalry games, speed and skill can get neutralized by any competent coach with a good system.

One of the big differences in this year's team (and shades of last year's) is that they're starting to show that they can win those games. They're less easy to physically intimidate and bully than they have been in the past. I just think it would be a major step backward -- again, it's not about being able to withstand physical play, as K and G can, it's about being able to take the physical play to the other team and breaking them down. That line-up would be as physically dangerous as nerf missiles.

IMO, the team still needs more warrior veteran types up front. Realistically, I don't think we're going to see K and G slotted into the 2nd line. Sure, they'll play there over the course of the season, but they're probably still going to be the 7th/13th forwards in general -- some games in the top 6, some on the 4th line, others still in the pressbox.

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02-05-2007, 12:20 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
If they continue scoring at the pace that they have been for the last 1-2 months (or so) all 3 should easily reach the 70 point mark (the last to do so is Jason Ward I believe). They seemingly (and I don't get to watch very many bulldog games so maybe Qui can pitch in) form a very good very productive line with Milroy seemingly being the 2nd coming of Ryder (keep in mind that I've only seen him 10 games roughly). Does anyone believe that Gainey will make a move to trade away the more expendable players on the current roster for a few spots for these kids?

Example; Trade Ryder for 2nd round pick (ya I know, real original), Samsonov for whatever you can get. This gives us enough money for Souray + Markov (and maybe even Rivet). It also gives us the possibility of keeping either Bonk or Johnson.

So what does this give us?

Higgins - Koivu - Latendresse
Perezhogin/Kostitsyn - Grabovsky - Kovalev
Kostitsyn/Perezhogin - Plekanec - Milroy
Begin - Lapierre - Streit

It isn't very likely, but it does save us a ton in Cap space. This team to me seems like it'd have alot of success. It's built purely on speed (which kills in the new nhl, although Lats and Milroy aren't the fastest) and talent.

Maybe I'm a little too eager to see Kost/Grabo in the big leagues
You don't want/think Johnson will be back?

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02-05-2007, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
If they continue scoring at the pace that they have been for the last 1-2 months (or so) all 3 should easily reach the 70 point mark (the last to do so is Jason Ward I believe). They seemingly (and I don't get to watch very many bulldog games so maybe Qui can pitch in) form a very good very productive line with Milroy seemingly being the 2nd coming of Ryder (keep in mind that I've only seen him 10 games roughly). Does anyone believe that Gainey will make a move to trade away the more expendable players on the current roster for a few spots for these kids?

Example; Trade Ryder for 2nd round pick (ya I know, real original), Samsonov for whatever you can get. This gives us enough money for Souray + Markov (and maybe even Rivet). It also gives us the possibility of keeping either Bonk or Johnson.

So what does this give us?

Higgins - Koivu - Latendresse
Perezhogin/Kostitsyn - Grabovsky - Kovalev
Kostitsyn/Perezhogin - Plekanec - Milroy
Begin - Lapierre - Streit

It isn't very likely, but it does save us a ton in Cap space. This team to me seems like it'd have alot of success. It's built purely on speed (which kills in the new nhl, although Lats and Milroy aren't the fastest) and talent.

Maybe I'm a little too eager to see Kost/Grabo in the big leagues
This is the perfect recipe to miss the play-offs !

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02-05-2007, 01:16 PM
  #37
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You don't want/think Johnson will be back?
I'd want him back, but it all depends...If Grabovski and Kostitsyn are coming up next year, we'll need an agitator on the team...Someone better than Murray or Begin. Someone who will drop the gloves when he needs to.

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02-05-2007, 01:17 PM
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This is the perfect recipe to miss the play-offs !
Right....By losing Ryder and Samsonov, we'd miss the playoffs. Makes sense.

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02-05-2007, 02:14 PM
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Right....By losing Ryder and Samsonov, we'd miss the playoffs. Makes sense.
Wrong ! It is not losing Ryder and Samsonov that will push this team out of the playoffs. It is replacing them with raw rookies only.

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02-05-2007, 02:29 PM
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Wrong ! It is not losing Ryder and Samsonov that will push this team out of the playoffs. It is replacing them with raw rookies only.
Emm, have you seen Ryder and Samsonov? They would be getting ouplayed badly by these "raw rookies". Ryder and Samsonov have very little impact on the team this season.

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02-05-2007, 03:56 PM
  #41
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The issue I have with adding Kostitsyn and Grabovski without subtracting from the top 6 (apart from Ryder) is that the team becomes so soft again. That's not to say that these guys are pansies who are afraid of physical play and high traffic areas, but it just doesn't help the team become more intimidating and aggressive, which is an area where they need improvement and consistency.
The proposed lineup also subtracts Samsonov and Sammy is softer that Kostsitsyn... in fact, a lot of guys are softer than Kostsitsyn

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02-05-2007, 04:33 PM
  #42
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i think we should pick up marco sturm form boston and call up grabovsky and put them on the second line together..they're both german

to boston:Ryder+bouillon

to mtl: marco sturm+4th or 5th
we call up cote from the AHL.....

latendresse-koivu-kovalev
sturm-grabovsky-samsonov
plekanec-begin or lapierre-streit
higgins-bonk-johnson

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02-05-2007, 04:58 PM
  #43
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Who knows what Gainey has in mind for these players. He knows that Kostitsyn has to play in the NHL next year or be traded cause he won't clear waivers. There's a chance that Kostitsyn may have an extra year in his contract based on him playing in the ahl at 19, some think that year doesn't count towards his contract, but I don't agree with that until I see it in writing. My opinion is that Kostitsyn will either be a Hab or get moved at some point. He's playing a lot better of late and I hope he gets another shot this year.

Grabovski can go to Hamilton next year without waiver concerns, so I don't know if he makes the team full time but he will surely see more games. He's been very impressive this year, but still needs to work on things. I don't know if he's ready just yet, I wouldn't pencil him in the lineup just yet, will be interesting to see how he handles the playoffs assuming the dogs make it. I'd be all for him making the team if does.

Milroy deserves a look at camp, I would think that him, Ferland and maybe Murray will all be fighting for a spot on the 4th line. He is playing a lot better this year, I wouldn't pencil him in the lineup next year but a good camp from him could make things interesting.

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02-05-2007, 04:59 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Poochie_D View Post
If Milroy has the same type of camp Ryder had during his rookie year he has a pretty good shot of making the team IMO. I think Kostitsyn and Grabovski are almost locks for opening night next year. The line-up will probably look something like this:

Higgins - Koivu - Ryder
Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
Latendresse - Grabovski - Perezhogin
Begin - Lapierre - Milroy/Streit (or UFA)
Who would be the checkers? The penalty kilers? Can these neophytes take the place of Bonk and Johnson?

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02-05-2007, 05:08 PM
  #45
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Grabovski can go to Hamilton next year without waiver concerns, so I don't know if he makes the team full time but he will surely see more games.
Hadn't realised that. Thats good news as it'll give him some extra time to develop if he isn't deemed ready and will also hopefully give him extra incentive to work on his English (whatever stage he is up to with that) if Kostitsyn is moved from Hamilton (either to Montreal or traded). From all I've heard, AK is explaining everything to Grabs this year so without AK to fall back on, and assuming another 'Ivanans' isn't brought in, he'll either need an interpreter, which will be a problem when on the ice, or he will need to make sure his understanding is up to a decent level. Glad to hear he doesn't need to go through waivers though, opens up another option.

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02-05-2007, 05:16 PM
  #46
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Hadn't realised that. Thats good news as it'll give him some extra time to develop if he isn't deemed ready and will also hopefully give him extra incentive to work on his English (whatever stage he is up to with that) if Kostitsyn is moved from Hamilton (either to Montreal or traded). From all I've heard, AK is explaining everything to Grabs this year so without AK to fall back on, and assuming another 'Ivanans' isn't brought in, he'll either need an interpreter, which will be a problem when on the ice, or he will need to make sure his understanding is up to a decent level. Glad to hear he doesn't need to go through waivers though, opens up another option.
Well from what I understand the younger Kostitsyn has some understanding of English and he's been over here a year longer then Grabovski, so he'll be joining the Dogs next year and I would think he'll join the Dogs this year if London doesn't go too far in the playoffs (but they could go far) since there's about a month between the end of OHL's season and the end of Hamilton's regular season.

So Hamilton fans could be hearing more of Grabovski passed it to Kostitsyn for the goal!

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02-05-2007, 05:21 PM
  #47
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The truth of the matter is, Kostitsyn should be in the NHL right now. He is absolutely dominating the AHL, and although his effort can be Kovalev-like he really is something to watch. He's become very sound in his own zone, and likes to use the body. I don't like to overhype guys on the Dogs, but he's the most talented player I've seen since this team moved to Hamilton in 1996. I don't quite understand why the team wastes it time with guys like Murray, Downey, etc...

Grabovski needs another year in the AHL, after this one. He's got to get more physical, and learn not to give the puck up so easily. Of course, that won't be easy with his size, but it's something he's gotta maximize with the size he's got. Other than that, the guy is phenomenal. Him and Kosty are both 1st line NHL material, and I hope the Habs realize this before they trade them away like they have prospects in the past (at least for Kostitsyn's sake considering the time he has spent in the hammer).

Milroy...well, in the 3 seasons prior I was not a fan of his, and despite his numbers I am still not. Yes, he is the man leading his line (usually playing with Locke and either Chipchura or Lemieux) but intensity just doesn't shine out of Duncan. He's done great things for the community, so I really respect the guy, but his play just doesn't make me get out of my seat. I will say his AHL future is bright, as he could have a long career, but I don't see him jumping up to the NHL anytime soon.

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02-05-2007, 05:42 PM
  #48
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Well from what I understand the younger Kostitsyn has some understanding of English and he's been over here a year longer then Grabovski, so he'll be joining the Dogs next year and I would think he'll join the Dogs this year if London doesn't go too far in the playoffs (but they could go far) since there's about a month between the end of OHL's season and the end of Hamilton's regular season.

So Hamilton fans could be hearing more of Grabovski passed it to Kostitsyn for the goal!
Another thing I hadn't realised. That'll be good for both of them if Grabs does spend more time in Hamilton next year.

Does anyone know if SK is still running round his dressing room proclaiming to be French? Wouldn't want to have Grabs worrying about another language

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02-05-2007, 06:31 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post
Hadn't realised that. Thats good news as it'll give him some extra time to develop if he isn't deemed ready and will also hopefully give him extra incentive to work on his English (whatever stage he is up to with that) if Kostitsyn is moved from Hamilton (either to Montreal or traded). From all I've heard, AK is explaining everything to Grabs this year so without AK to fall back on, and assuming another 'Ivanans' isn't brought in, he'll either need an interpreter, which will be a problem when on the ice, or he will need to make sure his understanding is up to a decent level. Glad to hear he doesn't need to go through waivers though, opens up another option.
You forget a certain other Kostitsyn will be with the Bulldogs next year. I think we'll see the S. Kost - Grabovski - Milroy line next year in the AHL. I think Grabovski will make the team about halfway through next year. Kostitsyn will be in the NHL next season, either replacing Samsonov or Ryder.

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02-05-2007, 06:44 PM
  #50
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Location: hockey city
Posts: 13,693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorblade View Post
The truth of the matter is, Kostitsyn should be in the NHL right now. He is absolutely dominating the AHL, and although his effort can be Kovalev-like he really is something to watch. He's become very sound in his own zone, and likes to use the body. I don't like to overhype guys on the Dogs, but he's the most talented player I've seen since this team moved to Hamilton in 1996. I don't quite understand why the team wastes it time with guys like Murray, Downey, etc...
Grabovski needs another year in the AHL, after this one. He's got to get more physical, and learn not to give the puck up so easily. Of course, that won't be easy with his size, but it's something he's gotta maximize with the size he's got. Other than that, the guy is phenomenal. Him and Kosty are both 1st line NHL material, and I hope the Habs realize this before they trade them away like they have prospects in the past (at least for Kostitsyn's sake considering the time he has spent in the hammer).

Milroy...well, in the 3 seasons prior I was not a fan of his, and despite his numbers I am still not. Yes, he is the man leading his line (usually playing with Locke and either Chipchura or Lemieux) but intensity just doesn't shine out of Duncan. He's done great things for the community, so I really respect the guy, but his play just doesn't make me get out of my seat. I will say his AHL future is bright, as he could have a long career, but I don't see him jumping up to the NHL anytime soon.
For someone who only sees Kosty a handful of times each year. Does his talent really stand out now? When i was watching what hit me was his wrister and how balanced he was on his skates. But not really his dekes or amaizing passes. Has he improved alot in that area? Stats wise he seem's to be a star on the Dogs but i was just wondering what does he do exactly on the ice

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