HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Is Anton Stralman in a Tenuous Spot with Rangers?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-03-2014, 01:42 PM
  #51
mschmidt64
Registered User
 
mschmidt64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 828
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
This, absolutely.

Resign Stralman without question. If a kid is ready, that's great, deal Klein and give that kid a spot. Don't depend on kids being ready. Wait until they are and then make a deal.
Right on. If Stralman is so in demand that he'd fetch $4m on the open market, well, you'd find a taker next trade deadline then if McIlrath or Allen have progressed.

He's a solid player, don't give him away for free.

mschmidt64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 01:44 PM
  #52
mrjimmyg89
'13-'14 East Champs
 
mrjimmyg89's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,847
vCash: 500
Preliminary talks have taken place with Stralman. I asked Katie Strang in her chat last week. Says he is on the back burner because of Girardi and Callahan negotiations and trade options. I think he should come back. He should get PP time. Has a good shot and good passer. It's tough. Will McIlrath be ready? All of these guys on the right side have either new contracts or will. Long term. Do we think it is better to give another long term contract and have a solid right side or take the risk and let Stralman walk and hope to sign either a 3rd pairing guy on a lesser term deal for cheaper or have McIlrath be given the 3rd spot?

The defense is finally clicking. I would hate to break it up. Klein is here to stay. Just traded for him. Girard looks to be very close to being here for at least 5 years more. Stralman may be an odd man out.

mrjimmyg89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 01:50 PM
  #53
Blue Blooded
Registered User
 
Blue Blooded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Handicap spot
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,734
vCash: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
Preliminary talks have taken place with Stralman. I asked Katie Strang in her chat last week. Says he is on the back burner because of Girardi and Callahan negotiations and trade options. I think he should come back. He should get PP time. Has a good shot and good passer. It's tough. Will McIlrath be ready? All of these guys on the right side have either new contracts or will. Long term. Do we think it is better to give another long term contract and have a solid right side or take the risk and let Stralman walk and hope to sign either a 3rd pairing guy on a lesser term deal for cheaper or have McIlrath be given the 3rd spot?

The defense is finally clicking. I would hate to break it up. Klein is here to stay. Just traded for him. Girard looks to be very close to being here for at least 5 years more. Stralman may be an odd man out.
You can't make a decision to keep Klein over Strålman "because we just traded for Klein", that is the epitome of bad business. How and when a player was acquired is a sunk cost - you only look at the present and the future.

These are the questions that should be asked:

Is Strålman a better player then Klein right now? Easily.

Will Strålman be a better player in the near future? Barring a career ending injury - easily.

Will Strålman's contract be so much more expensive that his overall value to the Rangers will be lower than Klein's? I don't see how, he'd need to make almost $6M/year for that to happen.

Is Klein untradeble? No. Not yet at least.

Blue Blooded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 01:53 PM
  #54
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,628
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
You can't make a decision to keep Klein over Strålman "because we just traded for Klein", that is the epitome of bad business. How and when a player was acquired is a sunk cost - you only look at the present and the future.

These are the questions that should be asked:

Is Strålman a better player then Klein right now? Easily.

Will Strålman be a better player in the near future? Barring a career ending injury - easily.

Will Strålman's contract be so much more expensive that his overall value to the Rangers will be lower than Klein's? I don't see how, he'd need to make almost $6M/year for that to happen.

Is Klein untradeble? No. Not yet at least.
Yes, that's how you and I would operate, but what will the Rangers do?

As you've already mentioned, they don't see Klein in the same way.

__________________
Rangers Unlimited
Hockey Graphs
Brian Boyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 01:54 PM
  #55
Badko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 112
vCash: 500
McIlrath was drafted 10th overall in 2010. Get him up here and let's see what he can do. Heaven knows we can use some more crease clearing and toughness. If he can't cut it, then move on like we did with DZ. Keeping him down can't be doing any good for the kid's confidence and that's half the battle.

Trade Girardi for some offense.

Badko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 01:55 PM
  #56
Blue Blooded
Registered User
 
Blue Blooded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Handicap spot
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,734
vCash: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Yes, that's how you and I would operate, but what will the Rangers do?

As you've already mentioned, they don't see Klein in the same way.
I want to believe that our front office will act rationally until proven otherwise. I will then ignore the irrational behavior and continue to expect rationality.

This is highly irrational behavior on my part.

Blue Blooded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 01:57 PM
  #57
Blue Blooded
Registered User
 
Blue Blooded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Handicap spot
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,734
vCash: 504
Re: Klein.

I hope AV sets our front office straight on his (lack of) ability.

He is currently getting extremely sheltered minutes and zone starts, yet is completely dominated out there. He may not make any obvious mistakes, but he has been replacement-level at best so far as a Ranger.

Blue Blooded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 01:58 PM
  #58
haveandare
Registered User
 
haveandare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 5,751
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Yes, that's how you and I would operate, but what will the Rangers do?

As you've already mentioned, they don't see Klein in the same way.
I'd be surprised if AV at least doesn't realize that Stralman is more of what he seems to want in a d-man than Klein is. Sather is another story. Who ever knows with that guy?

haveandare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 02:01 PM
  #59
Dactyl
Registered User
 
Dactyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 7,086
vCash: 500
Are Klein and stralman that much worse than G that it justifies how much money we are willing to commit to G? Stralman for 3-4 mill and Klein under 3 is pretty good bang for our buck. Girardi also happens to have the most trade value. This seems like a no brainier to me. Flip G for offense and bring up Allen. Let Allen play with Staal or McD, they will coverup any rookie mistakes.

Dactyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 02:02 PM
  #60
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 8,084
vCash: 500
sign stralman. hes the better value player. hang on to anton stralman. imo, hes been one of our best 3 dmen all season long.

trade girardi. hell bring back more value in a trade. they wont trade him though.

we cannot count on what mcilrath may or may not do at this point. he may not even be healthy. he seems to be fighting the injury thing alot. not only does his overall game need work, but he hasnt shown that he can stay healthy playing the type of game he MUST play to bring anything to this team at all.

and all this talk about klein not being 2nd pair capable or whatever ?? since hes been here, hes helped stabilize the defense, played quality minutes, and has allowed john moore to freelance and play the type of skating game hes best suited to play.

moving stralman would not bring enough back to warrant that play. he should be resigned and part of our top 6 for the next few years.

with girardi, anton and klein, were all set on the right side. and that side of teh defense doesnt need mcilrath next season..... thats the sad fact.

but we could sure use vlad tarasenko and his 18 goals im thinking.

offdacrossbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 02:03 PM
  #61
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,113
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Re: Klein.

I hope AV sets our front office straight on his (lack of) ability.

He is currently getting extremely sheltered minutes and zone starts, yet is completely dominated out there. He may not make any obvious mistakes, but he has been replacement-level at best so far as a Ranger.
Let's not forget that it took the rest of the team a training camp plus a month and a half to figure out AV's system. Klein joined midway through the season. I'm not saying he's been a world-beater since he's been here - and I wanted assets with more upside when we traded MDZ - but let's give him a little time before we declare him awful and barely worthy of 3rd pair duties. He was by all reports a very solid defenseman for NSH and his pair with Moore has been better than what we saw pre-trade.

That said, I'm on record that we should definitely bring Stralman back. Having too many RDs is like having too much left-handed pitching. A good problem to have.

BrooklynRangersFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 02:04 PM
  #62
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,371
vCash: 500
Stralman is Michal Rozsival. Good offensive tools, but little to no offensive hockey IQ. I think if he was ever going to be a realistic option on the powerplay, it would have happened by now. He just doesn't have that kind of ability.

The Rangers need more offense from their blue line. If they're locking up Girardi, and have no intention of trading Klein, then someone has to budge. It's not impossible to get a 2nd pairing RHD who is responsible defensively, but more potent offensively.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 02:04 PM
  #63
Dactyl
Registered User
 
Dactyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 7,086
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Re: Klein.

I hope AV sets our front office straight on his (lack of) ability.

He is currently getting extremely sheltered minutes and zone starts, yet is completely dominated out there. He may not make any obvious mistakes, but he has been replacement-level at best so far as a Ranger.
He's played what 4 games? In those games Moore has not looked like the nightmare he has this season. That alone is a huge benefit for us. Also keep in mind how long it took for the entire team except McDonagh to adjust to AV. Give him at least 10 games before completely writing him off.

Dactyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 02:11 PM
  #64
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 8,084
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Let's not forget that it took the rest of the team a training camp plus a month and a half to figure out AV's system. Klein joined midway through the season. I'm not saying he's been a world-beater since he's been here - and I wanted assets with more upside when we traded MDZ - but let's give him a little time before we declare him awful and barely worthy of 3rd pair duties. He was by all reports a very solid defenseman for NSH.
correct. he would have been 2nd pair but for a loaded d corps in nashville.

hes more than capable of playing 2nd pair with us. without girardi, a top 4 of staal/stral and mcd/klein would be very solid. add to that a john moore/(healthy)mcilrath 3rd pair and i still like this defense alot.

but a defense WITH girardi is obviously stronger. kleiner paired with moore on the 3rd and girardi with mcd as the #2 makes me very comfortable.

offdacrossbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 02:17 PM
  #65
Blue Blooded
Registered User
 
Blue Blooded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Handicap spot
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,734
vCash: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Let's not forget that it took the rest of the team a training camp plus a month and a half to figure out AV's system. Klein joined midway through the season. I'm not saying he's been a world-beater since he's been here - and I wanted assets with more upside when we traded MDZ - but let's give him a little time before we declare him awful and barely worthy of 3rd pair duties. He was by all reports a very solid defenseman for NSH and his pair with Moore has been better than what we saw pre-trade.

That said, I'm on record that we should definitely bring Stralman back. Having too many RDs is like having too much left-handed pitching. A good problem to have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dactyl View Post
He's played what 4 games? In those games Moore has not looked like the nightmare he has this season. That alone is a huge benefit for us. Also keep in mind how long it took for the entire team except McDonagh to adjust to AV. Give him at least 10 games before completely writing him off.
The part about the system is legitimate.

However, Klein has been a negative possession player throughout his career - so while he has been worse in that department than expected, don't expect a big improvement.

I'd say that a big part of Moore-Klein looking "solid" is that they haven't let in any goals with them on the ice yet. Considering how many shot attempts they are conceding, that will change sooner rather than later. It may not be "blatant turnover leads to odd man rush"-goals, but rather more likely "hemmed in our zone for a minute while failing to clear the puck thrice" type of goals.

Klein had an O/D zone start ratio of 85.7% against the Isles, yet his realtive CF% was a whopping -16.3%. To put it in simple terms: when one of the top-2 pairings were out there mostly against the Isles top-6 the Rangers were utterly dominant, yet when Moore-Klein were out there mostly against the Isles' bottom-6 we were significantly outchanced.

Klein may be decent at not getting burnt and not turning over the puck at the worst of times - but his inability to move the puck is far more detrimental on the whole than Del Zotto's propensity for mistakes.

I would honestly prefer Conor Allen on the 3rd pairing.

Blue Blooded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 02:47 PM
  #66
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
It would be outrageously stupid to let Stralman walk if he can be signed for a reasonable cost. I'd give him 3.5-4M and be happy paying him that.
I agree, preferebly at a bit lower AAV, but still.

If we find a better offensive alternative or McI is ready? Just trade him.

Stralsy will sign here at a decent rate, unless Slats takes too long to get the talks going.

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 02:52 PM
  #67
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Stralman is Michal Rozsival. Good offensive tools, but little to no offensive hockey IQ. I think if he was ever going to be a realistic option on the powerplay, it would have happened by now. He just doesn't have that kind of ability.

The Rangers need more offense from their blue line. If they're locking up Girardi, and have no intention of trading Klein, then someone has to budge. It's not impossible to get a 2nd pairing RHD who is responsible defensively, but more potent offensively.
You have a point, but I think Stralman is really good and smart coming out of his own end. But, ever since they moved the blue lines back, it seems like the production of the good but not great O Ds have dipped. You need some special attribute to get through. Or to play in an environment that open things up (like Letang).

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 03:08 PM
  #68
Ian
Mike York fan club
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,608
vCash: 500
Having a glut of capable defensemen is never a bad thing. And there is typically zero difficulty in finding a suitor for a guy signed to a reasonable deal (See: Kevin Kline).

Obvious answer is to resign Stralman to a 3-4 year deal for a reasonable price. If Moore/Allen/McI/Skjei/etc progress as expected, you trade him next offseason.

Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 03:09 PM
  #69
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,006
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Klein may be decent at not getting burnt and not turning over the puck at the worst of times - but his inability to move the puck is far more detrimental on the whole than Del Zotto's propensity for mistakes.

I would honestly prefer Conor Allen on the 3rd pairing.
Not every defenseman needs to be a puck moving defenseman. And Conor Allen is not what Klein is right now.

True Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 03:10 PM
  #70
Mint
Registered User
 
Mint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,704
vCash: 50
I thought AV was a guy into 'advanced statistics'. Makes me wonder why he may choose Klein over the vastly superior Stralman.

Mint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 03:18 PM
  #71
Chimp
Registered User
 
Chimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: In my food garden.
Country: Sweden
Posts: 10,476
vCash: 500
So now we're discussing to move our only RD-man who can actually pass the puck? Girardi is absolutely horrible at it, Klein I haven't seen enough of, but he's more in the Girardi category than the Strålman category. I would deal Girardi, simply because he will not be worth the money he will be asking for. Solid stay at home D, but he will also guarantee more often than not that defending is exactly what you will have to do.

The best D-men are those who make sure you don't need to even defend and Strålman is an alot more modern D-man in that regard than Girardi. Although, if the choice would then be to keep either Callahan or Girardi, I don't know. Deal one of them, but not both and not at the expense of Strålman, who is more worth the bang for the buck than either Callahan or Girardi, especially under AV.

Shutdown D-men comes at at a dime of a dozen. Mobile two-way D-men who can skate and move the puck don't and it's the former a modern hockey franchise wants and needs. That's my take on it.

Chimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 03:38 PM
  #72
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,006
vCash: 500
Moving Stralman is in a similar vein as moving Callahan or Girardi. There are several questions that need to be asked:

1. Are we a serious contender? In other words, are we good enough to beat the Pens and B's on a yearly basis?
2. Does Stralman want to be paid as he is worth or does he want to shoot the moon when his value is the highest it can possibly be?
3. In a salary cap world, how many high priced players can one team afford?
4. If signed to a long term team, will the team be content to pay a high salary for a player whose skills will be on the down turn?

First of all, if the Rangers are not a threat to unseat either the Bruins or Penguins in the next 3-4 years, then essentially no one is untradeable. Second of all, if Stralman wants a 6 years deal at 5-6m per, then he should not be brought back. Third of all, the team is not going to be able to resign everyone. The trick is deciding which players need to be kept in the fold.

True Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 03:45 PM
  #73
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,113
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Moving Stralman is in a similar vein as moving Callahan or Girardi. There are several questions that need to be asked:

1. Are we a serious contender? In other words, are we good enough to beat the Pens and B's on a yearly basis?
2. Does Stralman want to be paid as he is worth or does he want to shoot the moon when his value is the highest it can possibly be?
3. In a salary cap world, how many high priced players can one team afford?
4. If signed to a long term team, will the team be content to pay a high salary for a player whose skills will be on the down turn?

First of all, if the Rangers are not a threat to unseat either the Bruins or Penguins in the next 3-4 years, then essentially no one is untradeable. Second of all, if Stralman wants a 6 years deal at 5-6m per, then he should not be brought back. Third of all, the team is not going to be able to resign everyone. The trick is deciding which players need to be kept in the fold.
This is all very true. Those of us in favor of bringing him back are thinking he can be signed for 3-4 years at $4MM or less. If he thinks he can get 6 years at 5-6MM, trade him.

BrooklynRangersFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 03:46 PM
  #74
Blue Blooded
Registered User
 
Blue Blooded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Handicap spot
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,734
vCash: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
This is all very true. Those of us in favor of bringing him back are thinking he can be signed for 3-4 years at $4MM or less. If he thinks he can get 6 years at 5-6MM, trade him.
I'd honestly take him back at ~$4.5M. I don't think he will command that much, but I'd be willing to give it to him.

Luckily, he doesn't score many points which will work in our favor in the contract negotiations.

Blue Blooded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2014, 03:48 PM
  #75
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
You have a point, but I think Stralman is really good and smart coming out of his own end. But, ever since they moved the blue lines back, it seems like the production of the good but not great O Ds have dipped. You need some special attribute to get through. Or to play in an environment that open things up (like Letang).
He's okay. Again, I liken him to Rozsival in that regard. When given time, he can do good things with the puck. Under pressure, I often see him throw the puck to nowhere, or throw it into a teammate's skates. It's that lack of cool under pressure that keeps him from being a PP option.

People always say, "Oh, we can trade him later" but that doesn't always work.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:07 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.