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Official GDT February 5: NY Rangers VS Detroit Red Wings, 7:00p VERSUS

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Old
02-05-2007, 10:30 PM
  #376
WheresBarnaby
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Originally Posted by g52 View Post
Gimme a break. The D this year has sucked beyone belief. Old Kasper who was gritty was much better then Ward. Rozival has been better, same a little bit with Tyutin, but thats about it. Everything else has taken a MAJOR step backward.
Besides who the players you've mentioned who's left? Ozo, Poti and Kaspar better then the guy's we have now? Come on. Pock's looked good to me. Kasper better than Ward, no way. Kaspar could check and that was about it. Ward does that, and then some.

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02-05-2007, 10:32 PM
  #377
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I still think that the main probelms with defence stem from the 5-man units on the ice, not just the six D men. As a group the Rangers haven't been nearly as tight this season as last

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Old
02-05-2007, 10:50 PM
  #378
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You can blame Jagr, Malik, Renney etc.

To me it always traces back to Sather yet he is usually spared the deserved venom.

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02-05-2007, 10:57 PM
  #379
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tonight was horrible.

I was sitting in the stands between the second and third and said to myself - "theyll find a way to lose this game and get no points".

The puck is deep in the zone with 1:15 left, and if Renney deploys a 6th man the puck stays deep instead of coming out of the zone, but thats one very small piece of insignificance in a larger picture of dimwitted play.

Ah **** it, i cant talk about this game.

I was getting pissed off afterwards but then i realized this team isnt very good and didnt deserve anything so it quickly went away.

Im just tired of being sick and tired with this team!

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02-05-2007, 10:59 PM
  #380
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Missed the game due to work and there doesn't appear to be a rewind (and have to go back to work now) - could someone sum up for me in a coupla paragraphs? Sounds like it was preeeeeetty bad.

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02-05-2007, 11:01 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Missed the game due to work and there doesn't appear to be a rewind (and have to go back to work now) - could someone sum up for me in a coupla paragraphs? Sounds like it was preeeeeetty bad.
The Rangers had two 2 goal leads-2-0 and 3-1.The Rangers took the 3-1 lead into the third period where they preceeded to collapse.3-1 became 3-2 which became 3-3 and eventually they were down 4-3.It happened so fast just like the games in Florida and Tampa in December

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02-05-2007, 11:04 PM
  #382
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I actually tend to agree w/ the sentiment that our defenseman this year are better than last year.

the problem is our defense is worse.

why?

because last year, to almost a man (including jagr sometimes) they backchecked as a 5 man unit. the forwards supported the defenseman, and the defenseman supported the goalie. when 5 players are playing hard defensively, its a lot harder to score than when 2 or 3 players are. this year, way too many forwards are not coming back hard, and way too many players are trying home run plays rather than simple and smart plays.

ALSO and this is most important. last year our defense was good because of our offense. our forwards controlled the puck. the HMO line would control the puck in the offensive zone for the bulk of their shifts, same with the other lines. they may have not put the puck in the net, but they controlled the puck posession end of things which limits the oppportunities against. this simply is not happening this year. our puck posession time is probably 30-40% WORSE than last year, which is leading to more neutral zone turnovers and more brainfarts in the defensive zone.

All this comes back to discipline, accountability, and oh yeah....COACHING.

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02-05-2007, 11:10 PM
  #383
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Just got home from the game...haven't read a thing yet...for now all I'll say is sweet getting to meet Larry for 20 minutes during warm-ups (nice of him to inform me about the transactions) and also...not sure if it was heard on VS but my section began a mini FIRE-RENNEY chant which didn't last long. Section 207 btw. Also looking behind me up at Larry (sat right in front of him)...said it all tonight. He called off the cameras and refused to dance and stayed after the game for 5-10 minutes motionless. My rants, responses, and all that good stuff coming shortly

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Old
02-05-2007, 11:14 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
Just got home from the game...haven't read a thing yet...for now all I'll say is sweet getting to meet Larry for 20 minutes during warm-ups (nice of him to inform me about the transactions) and also...not sure if it was heard on VS but my section began a mini FIRE-RENNEY chant which didn't last long. Section 207 btw. Also looking behind me up at Larry (sat right in front of him)...said it all tonight. He called off the cameras and refused to dance and stayed after the game for 5-10 minutes motionless. My rants, responses, and all that good stuff coming shortly

i know exactly what he was feeling.

im STILL numb.

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Old
02-05-2007, 11:24 PM
  #385
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Let's face it: the first 2/3 of last year were an abberation. These are the Rangers we expected to see last year and that most experts had picked to finish near the bottom of the league. Was Sports Illustrated so wrong in picking them to finish 30th?
Last season everyone came back super motivated from the lockout and were willing to go that extra mile to be accountable to the coach and each other and to give extra effort. The European connection fed off of each other and the team had a unique chemistry. The SI article was a tremendous motivator for the team: you can never underestimate what a professional can accomplish when their pride is hurt. And they had unexpectedly strong years from Lundquist and Prucha. The psychological charge powering the team ran strong until the Olympic Games when the two week break destroyed their fragile chemistry. When injuries hit, the team collapsed.
Management (and many of us) were fooled into thinking the team was better than it was and only needed a bit of tinkering to be a Cup contender. Well, they, and again, many of us were fooled.
This team is not only flawed, but in its current configuration and with the wealth of young talent sprouting all around the NHL, is not shaping up as a serious playoff team for many more years. I don't know what the answer is: but I know where I would start....getting rid of the current management team. But, we all know that is not going to happen. Maybe they should let Isiah Thomas run the Rangers and Sather run the Knicks. Each can't do any worse.The only way to have a team is to build a core with youth and supplement with free agents. But for all the talk about bringing the kids up (and believe me, I want them up ASAP), most of our prospects are 3rd liners or 3 pair D. Only Staal and Montoya (perhaps Sanguinetti but he's to far off to get a handle on yet) look like better than average players. As much as I hate to say it, we must trade either Montoya (after he has proved himself in the NHL) or Lundquist in the next year for a legit, young #1 center or a first line young power forward.
Tonight was a disaster...the worst since the last disaster (the last game against the Bolts). And, what will tomorrow against the Devs bring? Ugh..Ugh...Ugh

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Old
02-05-2007, 11:26 PM
  #386
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Just awful...

I'm sick..

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Old
02-05-2007, 11:28 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
You can blame Jagr, Malik, Renney etc.

To me it always traces back to Sather yet he is usually spared the deserved venom.
Sather sucks...although, he's getting by right now with the possibility of these kids he's been drafting for a few years now pan out.

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02-05-2007, 11:32 PM
  #388
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sickening tonite, absolutely sickening..! defenseman still do not clear the front of the net.. players can just hang out in front all day long..

you give up 3 straight goals and your team has nothing going in it's favor in the 3rd and this moron known as renney still does not use the timeout to try and settle them down.. then to top if off we pull the goalie and our passing squad was playing hot potato in the neutral zone not advancing the puck at all.. this team needs a wake up call asap.. this season is in serious danger of being over quickly..

this team plays no system, and has a bunch of square pegs in round holes, a recipe for complete disaster..

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Old
02-05-2007, 11:34 PM
  #389
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What the **** happened? I turned off the T.V after the 1st hoping to see the rangers core more goals, only for them to lose. ***? I don't even wanna know.****.

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Old
02-05-2007, 11:45 PM
  #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
You can blame Jagr, Malik, Renney etc.

To me it always traces back to Sather yet he is usually spared the deserved venom.
I gotta agree with you.

I think there are lot of people who didn't help the situation, but at the end of the day it falls back to management.

Tonight was a back breaker, no way around it.

At the begining of the third period I just knew inside that this team was screwed.

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Old
02-05-2007, 11:54 PM
  #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
You can blame Jagr, Malik, Renney etc.

To me it always traces back to Sather yet he is usually spared the deserved venom.
Sather, Maloney AND Renney had the right idea in the off-seaon, by trying to sign North AMerican N-S grit to make up for our physival failings late last year...Good plan but lousy execution....We dumpster dived for Cullen and Ward...Cullen was a huge mistake and Ward ony a little less so with his inconsitent play...And then there was SHANNY..Individually, a good signing but a signing that put the entire team chemisty out of whack...

It shouldnt have, but id id because Renney let it..As Renney has let this team play with lack of heart, smarts, guts and any type of chemistry...This is not a great team, but it should be playing alot better then it has, and for that I think Renney is the main culprit...

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02-06-2007, 12:06 AM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Sather, Maloney AND Renney had the right idea in the off-seaon, by trying to sign North AMerican N-S grit to make up for our physival failings late last year...Good plan but lousy execution....We dumpster dived for Cullen and Ward...Cullen was a huge mistake and Ward ony a little less so with his inconsitent play...And then there was SHANNY..Individually, a good signing but a signing that put the entire team chemisty out of whack...

It shouldnt have, but id id because Renney let it..As Renney has let this team play with lack of heart, smarts, guts and any type of chemistry...This is not a great team, but it should be playing alot better then it has, and for that I think Renney is the main culprit...
Personally I don't think Shanny put anything out of whack, but that's just me.

I see a team that is even worse shape without Shanahan on this team.

I just think if we go with that mindset we might as well say that the entire thing was doomed from the begining because Jagr never has been and probably never will be the type of player who "leads" a team to anything and you've essentially built the structure of a team over a fault that is destined to implode.

To me the big problems are still a mediocre defense and not a single complete line outside of the first. Those two are big holes that will sink any ship.

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Old
02-06-2007, 12:29 AM
  #393
Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Personally I don't think Shanny put anything out of whack, but that's just me.

I see a team that is even worse shape without Shanahan on this team.

I just think if we go with that mindset we might as well say that the entire thing was doomed from the begining because Jagr never has been and probably never will be the type of player who "leads" a team to anything and you've essentially built the structure of a team over a fault that is destined to implode.

To me the big problems are still a mediocre defense and not a single complete line outside of the first. Those two are big holes that will sink any ship.
I guess this discussion has already been had so probably just beating a dead horse....BUT....the way I see it...Last year's team had heart, chemistry and played it's collective butt off for most of the year...And, despite it's mediocre defense, with great results until the physical limitations caught up with them at the end of the year...

This years team, IMO, with Shanny, Cullen, Ward and 2nd year from Pruch and Lundy is more talented and should be doing a hell of alot better...But there has been no chemistry from the start and Renny has been unable to find it or develop..And you have to think the intorduction of SHanny has somehow had an effect on that chemistry or the wy the team is coached....Maybe not...Still .it's Renney's job to mesh the players OR play the players that will mesh....Some peolpe will also say that last year we got the best out of Jagr and The King...That's true..and that's another area where Renney has failed---in getting the best out of his best players...Or any players for that matter..

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Old
02-06-2007, 01:00 AM
  #394
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
I guess this discussion has already been had so probably just beating a dead horse....BUT....the way I see it...Last year's team had heart, chemistry and played it's collective butt off for most of the year...And, despite it's mediocre defense, with great results until the physical limitations caught up with them at the end of the year...

This years team, IMO, with Shanny, Cullen, Ward and 2nd year from Pruch and Lundy is more talented and should be doing a hell of alot better...But there has been no chemistry from the start and Renny has been unable to find it or develop..And you have to think the intorduction of SHanny has somehow had an effect on that chemistry or the wy the team is coached....Maybe not...Still .it's Renney's job to mesh the players OR play the players that will mesh....Some peolpe will also say that last year we got the best out of Jagr and The King...That's true..and that's another area where Renney has failed---in getting the best out of his best players...Or any players for that matter..
I can see your approach, but I just can't really buy into it.

I think last year's team had a good 2/3 of a season before reality kicked in. I don't think the first 2/3 of last season were really where the expectations should've been, to me a lot of guys played the hockey of their lives and whether we signed these guys or didn't, that was going to be the reality of things.

Now having said I don't know what you really do about that. If the team is so fragile that you can't bring in players (and in Shanny's case guys who are respected league wide) than you're probably doomed anyway.

To me this team was flawed from the get-go but I don't think a lot of people saw it. I can remember having conversations during the summer, after the signings that this team still lacked a second line center and a good defense. The responses I got ranged from everything from 30 goals for Cullen to the believe that this was a team people were ready to go into battle with.

So in hindsight, was it ever really as talented or as good as was believed or where their glaring holes that really weren't addressed. I agree the team is more talented, but that talent seems to be to be top heavy with glaring holes. This team essentially had no scoring from it's bottom forwards, a very mediocre defense and a glaring second line center hole.

To some extent, mistakes and all, I tend to think Renney beld the turnip last season and there was nothing to get out of some of these guys. I think we got overprojected the types of players Cullen, Ward and Hall were. I think we didn't improve our defense and at the end of the day I think were a little over optmistic about what we had in guys like Jason Ward and Immonen.

I think this team was screwed even moreso without Shanahan.

I think this team has an average coach who doesn't have much to work with and at the same time isn't good enough to overachieve with this group again.

I think we have a mediocre defense and a pretty dismal bottom 6 forwards.

I think our best player is 35 years old and despite all the skill in the world is going to battling father time at this point.

I think Lundqvist hasn't been playing too his full ability and I think this defense only highlights that.

I think you're right on the right track with Straka,Jagr,Nylander,Shanahan, Lundqvist and Tyutin but there is too much of drop after those guys.

To me the key is not to change those 4 guys, but to maximize what they give you.

At the end of the day I think this team did some really ****** asset management and too many people put on those rose colored glasses last season.

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Old
02-06-2007, 02:11 AM
  #395
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I can see your approach, but I just can't really buy into it.

I think last year's team had a good 2/3 of a season before reality kicked in. I don't think the first 2/3 of last season were really where the expectations should've been, to me a lot of guys played the hockey of their lives and whether we signed these guys or didn't, that was going to be the reality of things.

Now having said I don't know what you really do about that. If the team is so fragile that you can't bring in players (and in Shanny's case guys who are respected league wide) than you're probably doomed anyway.

To me this team was flawed from the get-go but I don't think a lot of people saw it. I can remember having conversations during the summer, after the signings that this team still lacked a second line center and a good defense. The responses I got ranged from everything from 30 goals for Cullen to the believe that this was a team people were ready to go into battle with.

So in hindsight, was it ever really as talented or as good as was believed or where their glaring holes that really weren't addressed. I agree the team is more talented, but that talent seems to be to be top heavy with glaring holes. This team essentially had no scoring from it's bottom forwards, a very mediocre defense and a glaring second line center hole.

To some extent, mistakes and all, I tend to think Renney beld the turnip last season and there was nothing to get out of some of these guys. I think we got overprojected the types of players Cullen, Ward and Hall were. I think we didn't improve our defense and at the end of the day I think were a little over optmistic about what we had in guys like Jason Ward and Immonen.

I think this team was screwed even moreso without Shanahan.

I think this team has an average coach who doesn't have much to work with and at the same time isn't good enough to overachieve with this group again.

I think we have a mediocre defense and a pretty dismal bottom 6 forwards.

I think our best player is 35 years old and despite all the skill in the world is going to battling father time at this point.

I think Lundqvist hasn't been playing too his full ability and I think this defense only highlights that.

I think you're right on the right track with Straka,Jagr,Nylander,Shanahan, Lundqvist and Tyutin but there is too much of drop after those guys.

To me the key is not to change those 4 guys, but to maximize what they give you.

At the end of the day I think this team did some really ****** asset management and too many people put on those rose colored glasses last season.
I agree that reality and the teams flaws kicjked in after 2/3rd of a season last year but the team still played with heart and chemisty that is nowhere to be found this year...I also agree that the coach go the best out of most of his players last year...soemthing he is not doing this year...

I was not one of those that expected great things out of this team this year because I HATED the signings of Cullen and Ward and thought they (2nd C and physical D-man) were the two main holes left unfilled....Still, I thought there was no reason not to expect Renney and his crew to continue the chemistry and growth of last year...But none of it has materialezed and, in fact, the team has taken a step back......And I don;t know why the chemistry is so lacking...whether it's coaching...or it's makeup...probably both

I think, other then a 2nd C, the parts have been there to produce much better then we have even without the flaw...And the TEAM defense should also be as good or better then last year but it is not..I'll say it's chemistry and effort and coaching, but who knows why?

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02-06-2007, 03:32 AM
  #396
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Well, this game sucked. But when we were down 3-1, I kept telling my friend (a Wings fan): Have faith, we'll blow this lead. And that's what happened.

I'm not ready to give up on this team yet because I want to see how Avery helps the team, but I'm not holding my breath.

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02-06-2007, 06:57 AM
  #397
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I can see your approach, but I just can't really buy into it.

I think last year's team had a good 2/3 of a season before reality kicked in. I don't think the first 2/3 of last season were really where the expectations should've been, to me a lot of guys played the hockey of their lives and whether we signed these guys or didn't, that was going to be the reality of things.

Now having said I don't know what you really do about that. If the team is so fragile that you can't bring in players (and in Shanny's case guys who are respected league wide) than you're probably doomed anyway.

To me this team was flawed from the get-go but I don't think a lot of people saw it. I can remember having conversations during the summer, after the signings that this team still lacked a second line center and a good defense. The responses I got ranged from everything from 30 goals for Cullen to the believe that this was a team people were ready to go into battle with.

So in hindsight, was it ever really as talented or as good as was believed or where their glaring holes that really weren't addressed. I agree the team is more talented, but that talent seems to be to be top heavy with glaring holes. This team essentially had no scoring from it's bottom forwards, a very mediocre defense and a glaring second line center hole.

To some extent, mistakes and all, I tend to think Renney beld the turnip last season and there was nothing to get out of some of these guys. I think we got overprojected the types of players Cullen, Ward and Hall were. I think we didn't improve our defense and at the end of the day I think were a little over optmistic about what we had in guys like Jason Ward and Immonen.

I think this team was screwed even moreso without Shanahan.

I think this team has an average coach who doesn't have much to work with and at the same time isn't good enough to overachieve with this group again.

I think we have a mediocre defense and a pretty dismal bottom 6 forwards.

I think our best player is 35 years old and despite all the skill in the world is going to battling father time at this point.

I think Lundqvist hasn't been playing too his full ability and I think this defense only highlights that.

I think you're right on the right track with Straka,Jagr,Nylander,Shanahan, Lundqvist and Tyutin but there is too much of drop after those guys.

To me the key is not to change those 4 guys, but to maximize what they give you.

At the end of the day I think this team did some really ****** asset management and too many people put on those rose colored glasses last season.

Actually, here's where the signing altered the Rangers' locker room. Last year's team was much more Eurocentric, and Jagr was perceived as being the leader of that faction. The NA leaders were basically Rucchin and Dom Moore, neither of which are strong enough to pose any challenge personality-wise to Jagr's position as the main man.

But, last year's immediate ouster from the playoffs forced management to address the Eurocntric nature of the team, and not only did management undercut Jagr's poer base of support - most notably by not signing Rucinsky, but, also Sykora - they also altered the NA dyanmic by not only adding Shanny, a charsmatic, very public type of leader, plus Ward, stronger voice in the defensive crew, and clearly someone who'll support Shanny. They also moved Moore, and didn't re-sign Rucchin. The chemistry was clearly altered.

Now to say this wasn't an issue is wrong, because, clearly, it has been one all season. First of all, because the fans immediately made it one from the moment Jagr was made captain, and fans aligned themselves with each camp. And, it became a bigger issues when media members started going back and forth between both players on issues concerning the team.

Now, considering that the prospect base is full of NA types, I think having Shanny around will be very important, regardless of what he brings to the ice. And, considering that, for the most part, last year, when put in proper context, was an aberration, and this team is really only completing its 2nd year of rebuilding, (3rd for the system as a whole, then this year should be seen as a temporary side step/slight move backwards.

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02-06-2007, 08:02 AM
  #398
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What a ******* joke

We lost this game tonight because of Henke. He needs to sit
The guy always finds a way to lose 1-,0 2-1, or 4-3 not good for a goalie.

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02-06-2007, 08:29 AM
  #399
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To me this team was flawed from the get-go but I don't think a lot of people saw it. I can remember having conversations during the summer, after the signings that this team still lacked a second line center and a good defense. The responses I got ranged from everything from 30 goals for Cullen to the believe that this was a team people were ready to go into battle with.

So in hindsight, was it ever really as talented or as good as was believed or where their glaring holes that really weren't addressed. I agree the team is more talented, but that talent seems to be to be top heavy with glaring holes. This team essentially had no scoring from it's bottom forwards, a very mediocre defense and a glaring second line center hole.

I think this team was screwed even moreso without Shanahan.
I remember that too Edge, and props to you for it. Very good stuff.

Overall now, we are a few % short on so many accounts through line 2-4. Very little overall talent. Which have practically forced us to abandon our puckpossesion game, we aren't seeing it form the 2nd line, Betts and Co just dumps the puck in, and we got no Moore to tie the knots together on the 4th line, loosing Poti have also had a negative impact in that aspect, while it might be a gain in other...

On Shanahan, some reports seems to indicate that the reason for the Hall deal were to play him on the 2nd line, I personally don't belive that, I think we would have brought Rucinsky back if Brendan wouldn't have shown up knocking on the door. Still, Shanahan is a upgrade over Rucinsky.

Last year, we had success with our puckpossesion game, but got sweept in the PO's because our glaring holes, especially team toughness and PO experince. We tryed to upgrade thoose flaws, but couldn't do so without hurting the puckpossesion game.

Thats how it is, I remember a ton of complaints last season on the lack of team toughness, and they were of course correct. We are better in that deparment now, but it came at the cost of much of our offensive game. There are allot of talk about how Jagr alone took this team to the PO's last season, but that is actually not correct. Our 1st line as a unit didn't score all that many goals. We got decent production from line 2, 3 and 4. Guys like Steven Rucchin got his goals since we had a much higher overall talent level on the team, something we don't have this year.

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02-06-2007, 08:46 AM
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In The Flesh
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the team chemistry from last year is gone now, we needed upgrades last year but there really were know upgrades, just swaps for different players and it put the whole team chemistry out of whack, thats what I feared most during the summer, and it happened.

Where would the team be right now if we had the same team and roster from last season?

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