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Official GDT February 5: NY Rangers VS Detroit Red Wings, 7:00p VERSUS

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Old
02-06-2007, 08:50 AM
  #401
94now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
Actually, here's where the signing altered the Rangers' locker room. Last year's team was much more Eurocentric, and Jagr was perceived as being the leader of that faction. The NA leaders were basically Rucchin and Dom Moore, neither of which are strong enough to pose any challenge personality-wise to Jagr's position as the main man.

But, last year's immediate ouster from the playoffs forced management to address the Eurocntric nature of the team, and not only did management undercut Jagr's poer base of support - most notably by not signing Rucinsky, but, also Sykora - they also altered the NA dyanmic by not only adding Shanny, a charsmatic, very public type of leader, plus Ward, stronger voice in the defensive crew, and clearly someone who'll support Shanny. They also moved Moore, and didn't re-sign Rucchin. The chemistry was clearly altered.

Now to say this wasn't an issue is wrong, because, clearly, it has been one all season. First of all, because the fans immediately made it one from the moment Jagr was made captain, and fans aligned themselves with each camp. And, it became a bigger issues when media members started going back and forth between both players on issues concerning the team.

Now, considering that the prospect base is full of NA types, I think having Shanny around will be very important, regardless of what he brings to the ice. And, considering that, for the most part, last year, when put in proper context, was an aberration, and this team is really only completing its 2nd year of rebuilding, (3rd for the system as a whole, then this year should be seen as a temporary side step/slight move backwards.
Very good analysis. I was trying to express my concern at the beginning of the season, but overall optimism swept it away... To me the worse thing was the bringing Hall in. Besides the fact that we lost Dom Moore, Hall is impersonating everything the Czechs are not. They (the management) misread the playoff results, panicked and made very bad decisions.

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02-06-2007, 09:54 AM
  #402
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This team has many problems. First off, this team has no chemistry. Last year they bounded and it was an us against the world situation. This year they've seemed flat and emotionless all season long. No passion, no drive. Looks like guys are going through the motion. Others have mentioned it before but I will say it again. This is not a team -- its a collection of individuals who don't give a hoot and certainly won't fight or rally for one another.

Coaching has been a problem all season long. The pp sucks! Yet Renney refuses to change anything as if miraculaously things are going to improve. Makes no sense! Defensively we've sucked all year. Renney's hands are tied on that one cause thanks to Sather he's got a boatload of #5 and #6 d-men who are asked to do much too much. Still if we played a more conservative game, play more as a 5 man unit with the forwards coming back to help out, some of the problems on the backline could be masked. Again that comes down to guys being more concerned about their own stats then the good of the team.

Another problem has been no 2nd line center. I stated before the season that Straka should be centering the 2nd line and you could put Prucha or Hossa with Jags and Nylander. Hasn't been tried once! What gives??? Renney used it with varying success last season yet hasn't really given it a chance this year. Again, doesn't make much sense unless someone is insisting on keeping that line together. Certainly not for the good of the team.

Too many things just don't add up with this team. Bad chemistry, bad coaching, and bad management have given us exactly what we should have expected. A bad hockey team. Time is running short. If this franchise doesn't wake up and make some big changes over the next week we might as well write off this season!

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02-06-2007, 09:54 AM
  #403
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Originally Posted by natureboy View Post
The guy always finds a way to lose 1-,0 2-1, or 4-3 not good for a goalie.
I brought this up in a thread a couple of weeks ago, and was attacked by the forum faithful. No matter how many amazing saves the guy makes, the goal that beats us seems to find it's way into the net way too often.

Take last night...Hasek played like crap, but came up big when it mattered most. Lundqvist came up big a lot, but played like crap when it mattered most.

I think the thing that bothered me the most was the second goal. Giving the puck away was a bad mistake, stuff like that happens. But not hustling to get back in net to make up for his mistake was unconscionable. If you still have the game on Tivo, take a look and you'll see what I mean. Lundqvist didn't exactly give maximum effort on that play, it was like he conceded the goal.

Who does he think he is, Jaromir Jagr?

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02-06-2007, 09:59 AM
  #404
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The thing about this Ranger's club (and the reason I believe we can't hang Sather just yet) is that he designed a majority of the signings to be one-years. So, even if he does miscalculate in one off-season he's almost got a clean slate for next off-season.

Take into account that we're likely freeing up close to $5 million by keeping both Kaspar and Ozo down in the minors next year, and the impending $2 mill cap raise. This team is in a good position to add some younger talent, and bring some ready prospects into the fold (read: 1st line center, hartford deployments, etc.).

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02-06-2007, 10:56 AM
  #405
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
I brought this up in a thread a couple of weeks ago, and was attacked by the forum faithful. No matter how many amazing saves the guy makes, the goal that beats us seems to find it's way into the net way too often.

Take last night...Hasek played like crap, but came up big when it mattered most. Lundqvist came up big a lot, but played like crap when it mattered most.

I think the thing that bothered me the most was the second goal. Giving the puck away was a bad mistake, stuff like that happens. But not hustling to get back in net to make up for his mistake was unconscionable. If you still have the game on Tivo, take a look and you'll see what I mean. Lundqvist didn't exactly give maximum effort on that play, it was like he conceded the goal.

Who does he think he is, Jaromir Jagr?
On a team with no offense and no defense it is unfair and silly to expect a goalie to consistently save their butts.

Again, I feel that too many of you are focusing in the wrong areas. Management put together this team with no offense, defense, heart, chemistry etc. yet most here and in the media give management a pass unlike perhaps any other situation I have ever seen in sports.

Picking on any individual player is missing the point. We are watching a diseased animal and wondering why it isn't getting healthy when management is doing nothing to make it healthy.

I hate that Sather gets away with this while people here and elsewhere target incredibly small targets that have nothing to do with the major problem. Sather is attempting to put band aids on a wound that has been festering for years. Why everyone does not realize this as the problem is the single greatest mystery in all of this.

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02-06-2007, 10:56 AM
  #406
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There aren't many one-year signings, though...

Straka was two, Ward was two, Cullen was four. Shanny, one guy who you may've wanted to keep around another year, is one. Nylander probably should've been extended at the cheap rate, instead of negotiating a higher price for a longer term. Last season there were several, although Malik was three, Ozo was two, Kaspar was re-upped, which ended up being three more years. And perhaps a couple of those one-year signings may've been better off being two, like Straka, who was re-signed to a higher amount anyways. Like Rucchin, who seems to be missed this season. Like Rucinsky, who, while he may not have liked it, would've looked nice on a third line with Cullen, or even with Shanny to fill-in spots. [this all takes into account the fact that kids aren't being chosen for those spots, so why not have the 'fillers', if that's the direction the organization is going, although I'm not sure they know where they want to go.

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02-06-2007, 11:04 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
On a team with no offense and no defense it is unfair and silly to expect a goalie to consistently save their butts.

Again, I feel that too many of you are focusing in the wrong areas. Management put together this team with no offense, defense, heart, chemistry etc. yet most here and in the media give management a pass unlike perhaps any other situation I have ever seen in sports.

Picking on any individual player is missing the point. We are watching a diseased animal and wondering why it isn't getting healthy when management is doing nothing to make it healthy.

I hate that Sather gets away with this while people here and elsewhere target incredibly small targets that have nothing to do with the major problem. Sather is attempting to put band aids on a wound that has been festering for years. Why everyone does not realize this as the problem is the single greatest mystery in all of this.
I'm the biggest Sather critic on this forum. I think the man is an idiot, has no idea how to construct a team, pick a proper coach for that team, or to judge young talent. Because of the trade I immediately think M-A Cliche was one of the best prospects we had in the organization. And I think it's ridiculous he refuses to face the media, which means he's basically refusing to face us, the fans. The man is a joke, and will continue to run this organization into the ground for the next 5-10 years, or however long he feels like cashing his fat paychecks. Or until Dolan sells the team.

Yes there is PLENTY of blame to go around, from GM to coach to players.

But that doesn't mean Lundqvist has played well, and his lack of effort on the second goal where he gave the puck away behind the net was particularly alarming. Maybe a guy like Sean Avery will 'address' that in the locker room in the future.

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02-06-2007, 11:38 AM
  #408
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
But that doesn't mean Lundqvist has played well, and his lack of effort on the second goal where he gave the puck away behind the net was particularly alarming. Maybe a guy like Sean Avery will 'address' that in the locker room in the future.
Counting on Avery to fix the team attitude is like hoping that getting cancer will cure your heart disease.

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02-06-2007, 12:20 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Counting on Avery to fix the team attitude is like hoping that getting cancer will cure your heart disease.
That comment was sarcastic, I should have added the icon.

But I STILL didn't like Lundqvist's effort on the second goal, something you haven't commented on.

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02-06-2007, 12:29 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
That comment was sarcastic, I should have added the icon.

But I STILL didn't like Lundqvist's effort on the second goal, something you haven't commented on.
Didn't see the goal but I have no quarrel with your assertion. All goalies give up bad goals. I didn't go to the game because I have the flu and unfortunately I don't have Versus.

My point remains the same; Concentrating on a bad play by a player that gives up a goal is 2,755 levels below in importance to the big picture of Sather's total ineptitude. Why focus on something so minute when the cure can only be affected by fixing from the top down.

I am far more concerned by our horrible group of forwards and horrible group of defensemen than I am with Lundqvist. Put Lundqvist on a decent team and he's considered among the very best. On the Rangers he stands out for being one of the few who is upholding his end of the bargain. Of all the things to complain about on this team I am confident that Lundqvist is by far my least concern.

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02-06-2007, 12:42 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Didn't see the goal but I have no quarrel with your assertion. All goalies give up bad goals. I didn't go to the game because I have the flu and unfortunately I don't have Versus.

My point remains the same; Concentrating on a bad play by a player that gives up a goal is 2,755 levels below in importance to the big picture of Sather's total ineptitude. Why focus on something so minute when the cure can only be affected by fixing from the top down.

I am far more concerned by our horrible group of forwards and horrible group of defensemen than I am with Lundqvist. Put Lundqvist on a decent team and he's considered among the very best. On the Rangers he stands out for being one of the few who is upholding his end of the bargain. Of all the things to complain about on this team I am confident that Lundqvist is by far my least concern.
I agree with your overall point, but I was still very disappointed in his play last night. As far as bad goals are concerned, yes it happens to everyone, including Brodeur. The third goal that went through Lundqvist's legs was a bad goal at the worst possible time for a bad goal.

But it's the effort I saw on the second goal that disturbs me the most, as SOMEONE has to step up and show their teammates that it's not OK to play lazy hockey. Before last night I'd have to say I would NEVER have accused Henke of playing a lazy second in the NHL. Now I can.

I guess he's just mirroring the attitude of the entire team. When your captain plays lazy hockey, why should you play hard?

Not sure how I feel about Avery, but I'm pretty confident he'll work hard 100% of the time, which will be a rarity on this team.

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02-06-2007, 12:51 PM
  #412
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Can't blame Lundqvist on that 2nd goal, the whole team let up. If you're gonna blame Henke might as well blame the rest of them who just stopped.

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02-06-2007, 01:21 PM
  #413
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Agreed, jas...

and agreed that the chemistry needed to be altered. One mustn't forget what this team did post-Olympics, which is when teams were finally back up to speed and were rolling again after the year layoff.

The problem is, as it has been with this club for so long, they can't commit to waht they are or want to be. I've said this before, but it's like the toughness issue. You don't become tough when you have your top two lines consisting of finesse players and your bottom two of grinders. Hedging begets mediocrity, and the Rangers hedge a lot.

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02-06-2007, 01:34 PM
  #414
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The team has failed almost all season long to play 60 minutes of hockey. Even when they had the lead, they just seemed content to dump the puck in and then skate back and defend. They also gave up 20 feet in front of the blue line, and let Detroit shoot from within the circle at will. You knew Detroit would come back, on the otherhand, you knew NY couldn't hold the lead. They just don't seem to play smart hockey, and they play even worse at home.

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02-06-2007, 02:18 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
I agree that reality and the teams flaws kicjked in after 2/3rd of a season last year but the team still played with heart and chemisty that is nowhere to be found this year...I also agree that the coach go the best out of most of his players last year...soemthing he is not doing this year...

I was not one of those that expected great things out of this team this year because I HATED the signings of Cullen and Ward and thought they (2nd C and physical D-man) were the two main holes left unfilled....Still, I thought there was no reason not to expect Renney and his crew to continue the chemistry and growth of last year...But none of it has materialezed and, in fact, the team has taken a step back......And I don;t know why the chemistry is so lacking...whether it's coaching...or it's makeup...probably both

I think, other then a 2nd C, the parts have been there to produce much better then we have even without the flaw...And the TEAM defense should also be as good or better then last year but it is not..I'll say it's chemistry and effort and coaching, but who knows why?
I can certainly see that. I guess for me it comes down to chemistry or ability?

And even with that I don't know if I can fault any of the big 4 forwards. If this team has a second line center, I'm not we even mention Shanahan and I have a feeling that we're really not talking about the bottom lines much at all.

I just don't know Larry

I think a lot of frustrations come from not winning and not winning comes from having an incomplete team.

I think if this team didn't have such glaring holes, no one gets as frustrated.

But again I find myself going back to concerns about Jagr actually being the "leader" of the team. Have nothing against his talent, but I just have to admit that he's never won me over as an actual captain. It almost seemed like it was move that was made because it "had" to happen so that things didn't come crashing down but that inevitably, over the long haul it's not going to work.

Now I could be wrong on that, but I can't shake that feeling.

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