HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

LA Kings looking at Markov

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-04-2014, 11:38 AM
  #151
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PATCHESx67 View Post
offer is fair but why do we need to keep adding grinders,cant we just add to Markov and try to land Toffoli
Toffoli and a 1st is the minimum I would want from LA, maybe more depending on what other teams offer.

If Kaberle can get Toronto Colborne, a 1st and a 2nd(conditional), we should AT LEAST get that. Maybe we have to eat a Mitchell or Greene as part of the deal to let them dump cap hit, that's fine.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:38 AM
  #152
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Yup, the fact is you just don't get top flight scoring players who are young via trade very often anymore. Those have to be drafted and developed so if there is an ability to trade for younger bottom 6 players who can actually play the game, fight and win puck battles you do it. Markov has been a good soldier but this team needs a face lift and you do what you can and hope the kids you drafted fit into the top 6.

Moen-Eller-Clifford
Prust-White-Weise

While not sexy, that's a heavy bottom 6 that can lean on teams and soften them up for our smaller speedy top 6 guys. Think about how much more effective Gallagher, Desharnais and Gionta could be if they weren't taking the brunt of the beating from every defenseman in the league?
Aye.

Big problem then is obviously out Top-4. Beaulieu is better no shat the bed

PricePkPatch is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:39 AM
  #153
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 23,450
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I would rather a Toffoli than a Pearson, but I think that's a bit of a fantasy. I was lukewarm at best on Pearson when he was drafted, but he seems to be scoring at a good clip in the AHL. Could be a decent 2nd-3rd liner down the road. Not sure Markov is going to get you a real bluechipper but Pearson has some interesting upside.

Clifford may not be a sexy player either but those guys are hard to come by and have value beyond the scoresheet. The first will be a late pick but that's the nature of trading to a contender.

I wasn't crazy about it at first because I think we desperately need to upgrade our scoring and this deal doesn't really help that, but all things considered, it's not a bad package at all.
I'm not sure I would pull that trade. I like Clifford, but enough with the grinders.
Prust, Moen, White, Weise, and now Clifford too? No thanks. I don't want my two bottom lines filled with grinders.

So I look at a prospect and 1st. Pearson is decent from what I've read. Don't know much about him, has improved production in the AHL over his last season, so that's good. Decent size. As you said 2nd-3rd line potential. So not that bad, but to me it's not enough.

As for the 1st, well, a late one in not the best draft.

If that is really the best offer LA can make, then I don't think I accept because I know Markov will attract a lot of attention from other contenders and I'm certain we could do better. There's also the possibility of us adding a prospect or pick or our own so we could reach for more too.

Personally, I don't want Markov dealt. I think it will create a big hole on Defense. Beaulieu is not ready to fill in Markov's shoes. Neither are Tinordi and Pat.
The only reason I want to see him moved, and I do so before the deadline, is if they're too far away from a deal.

Kriss E is online now  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:40 AM
  #154
Smoky Thompson
Registered User
 
Smoky Thompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: 514
Posts: 3,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgy View Post
I usually agree with you on your value evaluations but you're way off here. That's not a package for Markov. Clifford is a grinder, Pearson isn't an upgrade over anyone in the system right now and the 1st is a glorified 2nd.
If you look at our goal scoring / offensive upside forward prospects, Pearson would be the only one measuring 6ft. He's probably an upgrade on Thomas, Collberg, Ghetto, Lehkonen. He's the closest to being NHL ready in any case.

And that 1st is 20th overall as of today.

Smoky Thompson is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:40 AM
  #155
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,341
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
Bergs is not going to trade Markov. He wouldn't get much for him and just traded Diaz, that would put him too thin on blue line depth heading the playoffs. Most Habs would get would be a 2nd round pick, Habs are better off keeping him.
If we trade Markov, I wouldn't be spending my time worrying about the playoffs, especially if we're trading Gionta and maybe another player or two.

Frozenice is online now  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:40 AM
  #156
Habsawce
Registered User
 
Habsawce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,097
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Aye.

Big problem then is obviously out Top-4. Beaulieu is better no shat the bed
Beaulieu-Subban would have some growing pains and it's a lot of pressure to put on the kid but that's how stars are born. You play with a Norris winner who can do everythign with the puck and the kid will learn from him and grow.

We're not winning the cup this year, so why not let him grow with Subban. Those 2 are perfect for each other, both big, strong and have out of this world puck skills. They would take very little abuse from forechecking and with soem confidence from playign together coudl dominate the league.

Habsawce is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:40 AM
  #157
sheed36
Registered User
 
sheed36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,959
vCash: 500
I'm a little surprised this thread is still open TBH. Usually threads like these without a valid source link are closed until someone else can confirm they also heard the radio report. Nice to see HF being more lenient on such things.

sheed36 is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:41 AM
  #158
rockjngo
Registered User
 
rockjngo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,184
vCash: 500
Moving Markov would give $5.5 million to Subban.

rockjngo is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:41 AM
  #159
Team_Spirit
Tinordi-Subban
 
Team_Spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 20,540
vCash: 700
1st pick.
Former 1st pick F with good progression.
depth F player with size and grit.

The asking price is fair for a player of Markov skill and status (UFA).

Kaberle landed a similar return in 2011. Colborne (former 16th overall) + 1st pick + 2nd pick.

Id like to keep Markov around but if contract talks are difficult you have to make a move for the future of the team.

Team_Spirit is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:41 AM
  #160
Crimson Skorpion
Global Moderator
 
Crimson Skorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lachine, Quebec
Country: Germany
Posts: 27,957
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgy View Post
I usually agree with you on your value evaluations but you're way off here. That's not a package for Markov. Clifford is a grinder, Pearson isn't an upgrade over anyone in the system right now and the 1st is a glorified 2nd.
Clifford is another Prust. You wouldn't take that on your bottom 6?

Pearson IS an upgrade over quite a few prospects. I'd take him.

Glorified 2nd rounders landed the Habs a Fucale and a De La Rose last year. But hey, that's just me...

__________________
Shawn Wilken,
Head of Hockey Department
LastWordOnSports.com


Want to write for us? Head to lastwordonsports.com/writeforus and apply!
Crimson Skorpion is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:42 AM
  #161
Smoky Thompson
Registered User
 
Smoky Thompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: 514
Posts: 3,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Toffoli and a 1st is the minimum I would want from LA, maybe more depending on what other teams offer.

If Kaberle can get Toronto Colborne, a 1st and a 2nd(conditional), we should AT LEAST get that. Maybe we have to eat a Mitchell or Greene as part of the deal to let them dump cap hit, that's fine.
I need some of what your smoking dude...

Smoky Thompson is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:43 AM
  #162
Habsawce
Registered User
 
Habsawce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,097
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'm not sure I would pull that trade. I like Clifford, but enough with the grinders.
Prust, Moen, White, Weise, and now Clifford too? No thanks. I don't want my two bottom lines filled with grinders.

So I look at a prospect and 1st. Pearson is decent from what I've read. Don't know much about him, has improved production in the AHL over his last season, so that's good. Decent size. As you said 2nd-3rd line potential. So not that bad, but to me it's not enough.

As for the 1st, well, a late one in not the best draft.

If that is really the best offer LA can make, then I don't think I accept because I know Markov will attract a lot of attention from other contenders and I'm certain we could do better. There's also the possibility of us adding a prospect or pick or our own so we could reach for more too.

Personally, I don't want Markov dealt. I think it will create a big hole on Defense. Beaulieu is not ready to fill in Markov's shoes. Neither are Tinordi and Pat.
The only reason I want to see him moved, and I do so before the deadline, is if they're too far away from a deal.
We're not scoring goals on the bottom 2 lines and if we do it's grinding goals from 2 feet in front of the net. This is the style they want to implement so it makes a lot more sense to supplement the team with players that can do that instead of trying to jam that square peg.

Yeah it would suck to lose Markov, but this is a business and the kid Beaulieu is showing a lot right now and I can't see the harm letting him get his bumps before we're ready to actually contend.

Habsawce is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:44 AM
  #163
googlymoogly
Registered User
 
googlymoogly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Yup, the fact is you just don't get top flight scoring players who are young via trade very often anymore. Those have to be drafted and developed so if there is an ability to trade for younger bottom 6 players who can actually play the game, fight and win puck battles you do it. Markov has been a good soldier but this team needs a face lift and you do what you can and hope the kids you drafted fit into the top 6.

Moen-Eller-Clifford
Prust-White-Weise

While not sexy, that's a heavy bottom 6 that can lean on teams and soften them up for our smaller speedy top 6 guys. Think about how much more effective Gallagher, Desharnais and Gionta could be if they weren't taking the brunt of the beating from every defenseman in the league?

Side note: Everyone wants Toffoli which I completely agree with but I don't see why the LA Kings, who have a worse time scoring than us would trade one of their better young forwards who can actually put the puck in the back of the net. It doesn't add up for them. The trade presented here does make sense for them and it can make a lot of sense for us as well. It's a hockey trade and a win-win, unless Markov refuses to waive of course.
If they need scoring we can toss them Briere. He scores goals with only 2 minutes ice time

googlymoogly is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:45 AM
  #164
Gary320
Moderator
 
Gary320's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 13,206
vCash: 500
If you trade Andrei Markov. I'd trade him at the deadline. That's when teams will overpay for a QB on the powerplay.

I don't see Markov has part of the plans in 5 years... so why wouldn't you get something serious if it's available in return?

Gary320 is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:46 AM
  #165
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Beaulieu-Subban would have some growing pains and it's a lot of pressure to put on the kid but that's how stars are born. You play with a Norris winner who can do everythign with the puck and the kid will learn from him and grow.

We're not winning the cup this year, so why not let him grow with Subban. Those 2 are perfect for each other, both big, strong and have out of this world puck skills. They would take very little abuse from forechecking and with soem confidence from playign together coudl dominate the league.
I do know that Beaulieu-Subban pairing this year has been really promising!

Oh well. I'd roll the dice and just.. just be ready to withstand the growing pains. Just be ready to realize that we are going to have a rookie as part of our Top-4.

PricePkPatch is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:48 AM
  #166
Hannibal
Brandon Prust FTW
 
Hannibal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,556
vCash: 500
It's the perfect time to trade Markov. He has value and he's not a part of our futur!

Hannibal is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:49 AM
  #167
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,939
vCash: 500
I hope people also realize that trading Markov (and not signing him as a UFA) means we have plenty of Cap space left to resign Subban, substitute Gionta for Vanek and still have leftover

PricePkPatch is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:49 AM
  #168
Habsawce
Registered User
 
Habsawce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,097
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I do know that Beaulieu-Subban pairing this year has been really promising!

Oh well. I'd roll the dice and just.. just be ready to withstand the growing pains. Just be ready to realize that we are going to have a rookie as part of our Top-4.
We've seen Bouillon and Gorges on the top pair for a good chunk of this season I think we can withstand a few growing pains from Brolieu. The fact that he actually possesses the skill set to be a #2 defenseman is more than enough for me to be patient, just like how we were all patient in 2012 because we knew a good draft was coming and management/coaching was going to be turned over.

The fruits of our pain on the horizon. I seriously would love this trade, and I've always been a huge Markov fan.

Habsawce is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:50 AM
  #169
Habsawce
Registered User
 
Habsawce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,097
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I hope people also realize that trading Markov (and not signing him as a UFA) means we have plenty of Cap space left to resign Subban, substitute Gionta for Vanek and still have leftover
Vanek is going to Minnesota, that's already all but done. Moulson could be interesting though to replace Gionta.

Habsawce is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:51 AM
  #170
Watsatheo
Error 503 Service
 
Watsatheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,301
vCash: 50
I really hope the rejecting PAP for Bourque is not true...sadly it seems very Bergevin.

Watsatheo is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:51 AM
  #171
googlymoogly
Registered User
 
googlymoogly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Beaulieu-Subban would have some growing pains and it's a lot of pressure to put on the kid but that's how stars are born. You play with a Norris winner who can do everythign with the puck and the kid will learn from him and grow.

We're not winning the cup this year, so why not let him grow with Subban. Those 2 are perfect for each other, both big, strong and have out of this world puck skills. They would take very little abuse from forechecking and with soem confidence from playign together coudl dominate the league.
You can't put our two puck movers together. That leaves
Emelin
Gorges
Murray
Cube
Tinordi
Pateryn
Whiskie

Of those D Emelin has shown some decent passing skills

Probably need to go with
Emelin Subban
Gorges Beulieu
Murray Pateryn(my choice) over Cube

I'd like to see Emelin back at left with Subban. Has it been done yet? I never seem to remember seeing them together.

googlymoogly is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:51 AM
  #172
Habsawce
Registered User
 
Habsawce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,097
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I really hope the rejecting PAP for Bourque is not true...sadly it seems very Bergevin.
Poker bluff I'm sure. If it's actually on the table you'd think he would pull the trigger at the deadline if they didn't bite and swap McGinn

Habsawce is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:52 AM
  #173
pepperMonkey
Registered User
 
pepperMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,418
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
We're not scoring goals on the bottom 2 lines and if we do it's grinding goals from 2 feet in front of the net. This is the style they want to implement so it makes a lot more sense to supplement the team with players that can do that instead of trying to jam that square peg.
We aren't scoring goals on the top 2 either

pepperMonkey is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:52 AM
  #174
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Vanek is going to Minnesota, that's already all but done. Moulson could be interesting though to replace Gionta.
How do you know that? Why can we be so sure?

(replace Gionta with Jagr then :-P Or Moulson)

PricePkPatch is offline  
Old
02-04-2014, 11:53 AM
  #175
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockjngo View Post
Moving Markov would give $5.5 million to Subban.
Does he have somekind of "Markov trade" bonus clause in his contract?

Monctonscout is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:27 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.