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Old
01-01-2014, 11:34 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by RoDu View Post
Coburn is a guy who you can pair with (if you can get one) a #1 defenseman
Exactly. He's a 2/3. You keep him.

If I can get a # 1 for the Schenns+, I do it without a moment's hesitation.

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01-01-2014, 11:42 AM
  #77
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Id package Brayden and Luke for an upgrade at defense.
Bingo.

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01-01-2014, 12:01 PM
  #78
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Trading the Schenn's for a fair return is most likely easier said than done. Are there any teams in the league that are looking for a potential #2 center and shut down d-man? And out of those teams, are there any that are willing to give up what we want? Which I'm assuming is a top pairing, puck moving, mobile defenseman.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not the biggest fan of the Schenn brothers, but I don't think trading them both away for whatever is out there is going to make us better now - or in the future.

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01-01-2014, 12:39 PM
  #79
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Sigh..the new Carle. Once he's gone we'll be looking for a heavy minutes player like him just like Carle particularly last year when we really needed a PMD. He is far from perfect but as somebody noted ...problem is when the Flyers try to rely on him in a prominent role...like the substitute for Pronger or another PMD. He's fine ...what's around him needs to improve. Leave the dude alone....jeesh.
Coburn has a similar issue to Carle. is he worth 5m+ per season? Carle has his issues, but at what we were paying him, he was fine. is he worth what TB gave him, no way.

Coburn is nice at 4.5. Hopefully he doesn't want a raise. If so, 3-4 year extension is great. If he does, I hope we ship him out first and get something.

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01-01-2014, 12:43 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post

Simmonds and Grossmann for Buff + Frolik

We give the better F but get back better D(offensively in this deal)

Buff Kimmo
Coburn Streit
Schenn Gus
Ewww. yuk. I don't see what anyone likes about Buff, aside from his shot.

Do not want.

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01-01-2014, 12:47 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Funf View Post
Trading the Schenn's for a fair return is most likely easier said than done. Are there any teams in the league that are looking for a potential #2 center and shut down d-man? And out of those teams, are there any that are willing to give up what we want? Which I'm assuming is a top pairing, puck moving, mobile defenseman.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not the biggest fan of the Schenn brothers, but I don't think trading them both away for whatever is out there is going to make us better now - or in the future.
I think you are right. I wouldn't trade them for a "Mark Streit" defenseman. We want a shattenkirk, but I don't think that guy is out there or available.

trade them and our first for first overall? ekblad? <dreaming I know>.

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01-01-2014, 01:40 PM
  #82
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My reasoning is this:

Brayden Schenn: We have a #1 c in Giroux, we have a younger future #2 c who is already a more valuable piece than Schenn, we have Lecavalier who can play W or C up and down the lineup, and we have Laughton who will likely be ready next season, who can IMO replace what Schenn brings.

Luke Schenn: while luke is still young, we have Grossmann and Coburn who can play Luke's role just as good if not better. We also have Samuel Morin, who literally could replace what Luke brings right now if it were an option, and if he's not ready to go next season, sign a guy like Douglas Murray for a year until he is.

I'm not saying trade them for a bonafide #1 guy, but maybe a younger guy who can become that, or maybe add our 1st and make a run for an oppurtunity to pick Ekblad.

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01-01-2014, 01:49 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
My reasoning is this:

Brayden Schenn: We have a #1 c in Giroux, we have a younger future #2 c who is already a more valuable piece than Schenn, we have Lecavalier who can play W or C up and down the lineup, and we have Laughton who will likely be ready next season, who can IMO replace what Schenn brings.

Luke Schenn: while luke is still young, we have Grossmann and Coburn who can play Luke's role just as good if not better. We also have Samuel Morin, who literally could replace what Luke brings right now if it were an option, and if he's not ready to go next season, sign a guy like Douglas Murray for a year until he is.

I'm not saying trade them for a bonafide #1 guy, but maybe a younger guy who can become that, or maybe add our 1st and make a run for an oppurtunity to pick Ekblad.
I agree, I just don't think any teams would do those deals. I think that if the defenseman we want was out there, and we could package the Schenn's for him, it would already be done.

Maybe if Edmonton gets the 1st overall and is looking to add grit still? I'd love to get ekblad...

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01-01-2014, 01:49 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
My reasoning is this:

Brayden Schenn: We have a #1 c in Giroux, we have a younger future #2 c who is already a more valuable piece than Schenn, we have Lecavalier who can play W or C up and down the lineup, and we have Laughton who will likely be ready next season, who can IMO replace what Schenn brings.

Luke Schenn: while luke is still young, we have Grossmann and Coburn who can play Luke's role just as good if not better. We also have Samuel Morin, who literally could replace what Luke brings right now if it were an option, and if he's not ready to go next season, sign a guy like Douglas Murray for a year until he is.

I'm not saying trade them for a bonafide #1 guy, but maybe a younger guy who can become that, or maybe add our 1st and make a run for an oppurtunity to pick Ekblad.
we shouldn't trade them for anything less, because we don't have anything else to trade to get something like that. There are like 5 guys in the league that fit this bill.

Our problem is that these guys are just never available unless GMS are morons or their wives want out of edmonton.

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01-01-2014, 02:01 PM
  #85
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I hate bringing this name up, but there are a lot of Preds fans who seem absolutely disenchanted with Shea Weber right now. They need pretty much everything. A young top 6 forward with first line potential and a young physical dman with top 4 potential could be the start of a package that I'd be willing to add to that could entice the Preds. We'd more have to worry about what other teams would be willing to part with if Nashville made him available.

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01-01-2014, 02:29 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
My reasoning is this:

Brayden Schenn: We have a #1 c in Giroux, we have a younger future #2 c who is already a more valuable piece than Schenn, we have Lecavalier who can play W or C up and down the lineup, and we have Laughton who will likely be ready next season, who can IMO replace what Schenn brings.

Luke Schenn: while luke is still young, we have Grossmann and Coburn who can play Luke's role just as good if not better. We also have Samuel Morin, who literally could replace what Luke brings right now if it were an option, and if he's not ready to go next season, sign a guy like Douglas Murray for a year until he is.

I'm not saying trade them for a bonafide #1 guy, but maybe a younger guy who can become that, or maybe add our 1st and make a run for an oppurtunity to pick Ekblad.
How exactly does Laughton make Schenn expendable? You really think Laughton is gonna be more then a 3rd liner? Schenn is on pace for 49 pts this year and was on pace for 47 last year. That makes him a solid 2nd line contributor already. Schenn hasn't even played the equivalent of 2 full NHL seasons yet, is 22 so he is still growing physically and as a player (consistency is his biggest issue right now). Improvement from here would make him 1st liner, maybe the goal scoring winger we all know G is missing considering his shot is one of his best attributes.

Also Morin is nowhere near ready, he's got a lot of work to do. I assume you don't get to see him much in the Q but he gets owned night after night by all the skilled players, how well do you think he'd fair against NHL skilled players if he still has trouble with teenagers? Morin is a project and looking good in a couple exhibition games at the start of this season doesn't change that.

I wouldn't trade the Schenn's for anything short of a legit #1. Obviously Flyers would have to add but you don't trade a 2nd line C/winger with potential to be more and 4/5 d-man for a chance at getting a #1. That's just bad asset management. If the Flyers want to go the route of a trade for a possible #1 (aka a young d-man/prospect) you don't give up multiple roster players in the process.

From some of your previous posts it's evident you aren't a fan of the Schenn's and in fact it seems you dislike them quite a bit so I doubt I can convince you that this (trading them for a young d-man) isn't a good idea but whatever. Ultimately it doesn't matter what any of us on here think.


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Old
01-01-2014, 02:41 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by mja View Post
I hate bringing this name up, but there are a lot of Preds fans who seem absolutely disenchanted with Shea Weber right now. They need pretty much everything. A young top 6 forward with first line potential and a young physical dman with top 4 potential could be the start of a package that I'd be willing to add to that could entice the Preds. We'd more have to worry about what other teams would be willing to part with if Nashville made him available.
Nah...I dont feel like pulling another Pronger type deal although Weber is more in his prime. We sell the farm for him we'll be treading water with lack of depth for a few years and then the dude starts breaking down or suffers a big injury. Just dont trust our luck with blockbuster deals anymore. I would prefer a more measured approach. The last two seasons the Flyers turned a corner with addressing the D in the draft...willing to see how that pans out although it will be 2-3 years from now.

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01-01-2014, 02:54 PM
  #88
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Nah...I dont feel like pulling another Pronger type deal although Weber is more in his prime. We sell the farm for him we'll be treading water with lack of depth for a few years and then the dude starts breaking down or suffers a big injury. Just dont trust our luck with blockbuster deals anymore. I would prefer a more measured approach. The last two seasons the Flyers turned a corner with addressing the D in the draft...willing to see how that pans out although it will be 2-3 years from now.
We have plenty of depth. What we lack is a high end # 1 D and to a lesser extent a pure sniper to play with Giroux.

If we can swap out the Schenns & a top pick and a mid prospect, I do it easily. I'd do the Pronger deal all over again, too. It got us to OT in game 6 of the SCF with MFL in net.

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01-01-2014, 02:59 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
How exactly does Laughton make Schenn expendable? You really think Laughton is gonna be more then a 3rd liner? Schenn is on pace for 49 pts this year and was on pace for 47 last year. That makes him a solid 2nd line contributor already. Schenn hasn't even played the equivalent of 2 full NHL seasons yet, is 22 so he is still growing physically and as a player (consistency is his biggest issue right now). Improvement from here would make him 1st liner, maybe the goal scoring winger we all know G is missing considering his shot is one of his best attributes.

Also Morin is nowhere near ready, he's got a lot of work to do. I assume you don't get to see him much in the Q but he gets owned night after night by all the skilled players, how well do you think he'd fair against NHL skilled players if he still has trouble with teenagers? Morin is a project and looking good in a couple exhibition games at the start of this season doesn't change that.

I wouldn't trade the Schenn's for anything short of a legit #1. Obviously Flyers would have to add but you don't trade a 2nd line C/winger with potential to be more and 4/5 d-man for a chance at getting a #1. That's just bad asset management. If the Flyers want to go the route of a trade for a possible #1 (aka a young d-man/prospect) you don't give up multiple roster players in the process.

From some of your previous posts it's evident you aren't a fan of the Schenn's and in fact it seems you dislike them quite a bit so I doubt I can convince you that this (trading them for a young d-man) isn't a good idea but whatever. Ultimately it doesn't matter what any of us on here think.
I do think Laughton has the potential to be more than a 3rd line c, but if he isn't, that's fine because we don't need him to be any more than a 3rd line c. Giroux, Couturier, Laughton looks pretty decent to me going forward.

Also, I wasn't saying morin was ready now, I was simply taking a jab at Luke's effectiveness, because all he really brings is physicality and OK shot blocking, which morin can actually provide right now probably.

And I would most certainly trade both of them for a pick if that pick is Ekblad. Without a doubt, and I wouldn't even think about it.

But you're right, I'm not the biggest Schenn supporter haha.

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01-01-2014, 04:16 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by mja View Post
I hate bringing this name up, but there are a lot of Preds fans who seem absolutely disenchanted with Shea Weber right now. They need pretty much everything. A young top 6 forward with first line potential and a young physical dman with top 4 potential could be the start of a package that I'd be willing to add to that could entice the Preds. We'd more have to worry about what other teams would be willing to part with if Nashville made him available.
I could very easily see Holmgren making this kind of trade on draft day, much like Lou did for the Devils last year. Identify a need, and go all in. Not like we need to worry about Weber moping, after getting traded here (e.g. Carter in Columbus).

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01-02-2014, 06:34 AM
  #91
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The HF boards fans might be disenchanted with Weber right now. The more casual Preds fan or person attending their game likely still thinks of him as one of the top couple defenders in the league (and unless he's looked like absolute **** the entire time without Suter I think this is probably fair given how long he's been the man, versus half a season of por play). The Preds are a business and they just invested A LOT in the first year of his contract. He's still a draw. They're not going to be traading him for the Schenns plus a pick, I don't care what the flakey, impatient, hockey-obssessed HFBoards fans think.

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02-05-2014, 08:31 AM
  #92
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How coburn's game right now ?

No much point but seem to be a good Solid, mobile rearguard. Hes role changing ???

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02-05-2014, 08:36 AM
  #93
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How coburn's game right now ?

No much point but seem to be a good Solid, mobile rearguard. Hes role changing ???
Solid, eats minutes against teams top lines. He's prone to making bonehead plays but for the most part they've been down this year.

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02-05-2014, 08:51 AM
  #94
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like most of our blueline, Coburn is being asked to take on a bigger role than he's capable of

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02-05-2014, 09:06 AM
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like most of our blueline, Coburn is being asked to take on a bigger role than he's capable of
How so? He's being asked to be our top shut down guy & doing fine in that role.

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02-05-2014, 10:30 AM
  #96
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He'll be fine whenever the Flyers get the the top pairing defender they sorely need.

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02-05-2014, 10:38 PM
  #97
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Instead of Weber, they should go after Josi instead. We would have him at 4 mill for the next 6 years when he is aged 24-30. And he would cost less and not gut the team.

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02-09-2014, 04:04 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
My reasoning is this:

Brayden Schenn: We have a #1 c in Giroux, we have a younger future #2 c who is already a more valuable piece than Schenn, we have Lecavalier who can play W or C up and down the lineup, and we have Laughton who will likely be ready next season, who can IMO replace what Schenn brings.

Luke Schenn: while luke is still young, we have Grossmann and Coburn who can play Luke's role just as good if not better. We also have Samuel Morin, who literally could replace what Luke brings right now if it were an option, and if he's not ready to go next season, sign a guy like Douglas Murray for a year until he is.

I'm not saying trade them for a bonafide #1 guy, but maybe a younger guy who can become that, or maybe add our 1st and make a run for an oppurtunity to pick Ekblad.
This is the ticket to defensive rebuild that makes sense.
The Flyers have a glut of centermen and too many slower defensive defensemen.
They need to change their philosophy about defense, younger and faster should
be key attributes of the players acquired.
Without rebuilding this defense the Flyers will remain an average hockey team.
The age of the traffic cone defenseman is long gone.

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02-09-2014, 04:18 PM
  #99
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