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Look at past drafts, what pick do you question the most?

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Old
02-05-2014, 11:55 AM
  #26
dulzhok
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Well, then, it's a good thing that Nashville has successfully gotten impact NHLers outside of the first round, eh? That's more than some other teams can say - or could say for several years.
Here comes the we're better off than Columbus and Edmonton rational.

It's great we drafted Rinne and Weber outside the 1st rd-- if not, we'd be absolutely pathetic. But that doesn't excuse the inability to draft or trade for offense, which is the reason we've never turned into elite team.

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02-05-2014, 11:58 AM
  #27
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Visqi is right - our later round drafting 3rd round on is actually quite exceptional, as is the Weber choice. Our first round historically has not been up to par. It seems like we have had an awful lot of 2nd round busts as well, but I would have to review

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02-05-2014, 12:01 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
It should also be brought up again that Poile traded for Forsberg (who's not even two months older than Jones), and gave up this guy:
It's should be brought up that the only reason the trade happened is because Martin Erat made him do it.

I was first to come here and give Poile praise for finally make a trade to help the long-term interest of this franchise (before I knew Erat made him do it). But Erat deserves most of the credit for making this trade happen.

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02-05-2014, 12:03 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
It's should be brought up that the only reason the trade happened is because Martin Erat made him do it.

I was first to come here and give Poile praise for finally make a trade to help the long-term interest of this franchise. But Erat deserves most of the credit for making this trade happen.
lol

Erat did what many people do. Ask for a trade.

Poile did what very few do, and that is get a highly-rated 18 year old first round pick for an aging set-up man whose best years are behind him.

The only thing Erat did was ask for a trade. Poile did all the work and didn't settle for less than a steal.

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02-05-2014, 12:05 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
lol
The only thing Erat did was ask for a trade. Poile did all the work and didn't settle for less than a steal.
Trade would not have happened if Erat didn't insist Poile trade him. It worked out for us, but Poile would've never shopped Erat otherwise.

Erat made himeslf aviable to the highest bidder. Poile should've been doing that long before with other guys-- Suter and Hamhuis to name 2. We'd be in a much better position now.

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02-05-2014, 12:06 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
Visqi is right - our later round drafting 3rd round on is actually quite exceptional, as is the Weber choice. Our first round historically has not been up to par. It seems like we have had an awful lot of 2nd round busts as well, but I would have to review
There was a thread on the main boards recently about drafting depth. In terms of quantity, Nashville was among the top in the league. Not sure about quality though. They are likely mid range.

Very rarely is a team able to draft elite players at all 3 positions. We have 2 of 3. It's ok to be bad at drafting elite forwards, but you have to make up for it via trade and UFA - something Poile hasn't been able to do.

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02-05-2014, 12:09 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Trade would not have happened if Erat didn't insist Poile trade him. It worked out for us, but Poile would've never shopped Erat otherwise.

Erat made himeslf aviable to the highest bidder. Poile should've been doing that long before with other guys-- Suter and Hamhuis to name 2. We'd be in a much better position now.
You still have to give him credit though. Usually when a player demands a trade, the return is underwhelming.

Disagree on Suter/Hamhuis.

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02-05-2014, 12:13 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
You still have to give him credit though. Usually when a player demands a trade, the return is underwhelming.

Disagree on Suter/Hamhuis.
I give him some credit for landing Forseberg. But it's not rocket science. Erat is available to the highest bigger (thanks to Erat). The highest bidder was Washington. If he'd have the foresight to do that with other players who weren't going to with us long-term term (SUTER) we'd be a different franchise right now. He didn't have the foresight with Erat either-- he just did it because Erat made him do it.

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02-05-2014, 12:21 PM
  #34
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Radulov and Hartnell have both flourished elsewhere.
As a whole, Hartnell has been has had similar production as in Philly. And you're referring to the KHL? Radulov did fine here as a rookie--26g in a secondary capacity is very good.

As for the Radulov being a great pick. He was rated higher, he fell due to character questions. Looks like those guys were right.

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02-05-2014, 12:21 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I give him some credit for landing Forseberg. But it's not rocket science. Erat is available to the highest bigger (thanks to Erat). The highest bidder was Washington. If he'd have the foresight to do that with other players who weren't going to with us long-term term (SUTER) we'd be a different franchise right now. He didn't have the foresight with Erat either-- he just did it because Erat made him do it.
If I'm not mistaken, Poile's beef (and the fans frustration for that matter) with Suter is that Ryan told him in November of that season (the same month Rinne signed his extension) that he was going to re-sign here, he just didn't want to deal with anything in-season. From everything that came out regarding that, it seems that Poile had no reason to trade him because he wouldn't leave.

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02-05-2014, 12:24 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
If I'm not mistaken, Poile's beef (and the fans frustration for that matter) with Suter is that Ryan told him in November of that season (the same month Rinne signed his extension) that he was going to re-sign here, he just didn't want to deal with anything in-season. From everything that came out regarding that, it seems that Poile had no reason to trade him because he wouldn't leave.
Great GMs get the pulse of their players, the rest are David Poile.

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02-05-2014, 12:27 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Great GMs get the pulse of their players, the rest are David Poile.
Lou Lamoriello didn't trade Parise. Guy's a stiff.

edit: I get the feeling your reaction will be to slam me because you think I'm comparing Poile's accomplishments to Lamoriello's, so before that happens, I'm just pointing out some contradictions that you're making for the sake of slamming Poile at every opportunity.

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02-05-2014, 12:33 PM
  #38
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Lou Lamoriello didn't trade Parise. Guy's a stiff.
In recent years, yes, that's pretty accurate. He hasn't been making good moves.

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02-05-2014, 12:41 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
In recent years, yes, that's pretty accurate. He hasn't been making good moves.
Does the move for Schneider count? Everyone knew that was a bigtime trade.

But whatever, if you don't like Poile, great, but I know it could be a lot worse.

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02-05-2014, 01:18 PM
  #40
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Ryan Ellis ... it just goes against everything this organization preaches ... "We want two way complete hockey players" and we draft an undersized offensive defense man in the first round.

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02-05-2014, 01:24 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
There was a thread on the main boards recently about drafting depth. In terms of quantity, Nashville was among the top in the league. Not sure about quality though. They are likely mid range.

Very rarely is a team able to draft elite players at all 3 positions. We have 2 of 3. It's ok to be bad at drafting elite forwards, but you have to make up for it via trade and UFA - something Poile hasn't been able to do.
I would almost agree; I'd say he hasn't been able to do it consistently. Kariya comes to mind, and while Arnott and Dumont weren't exactly "elite" they were very effective during their time here.

Well, okay, and then there was the other Forsberg, but the less said about that the better.

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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Great GMs get the pulse of their players, the rest are David Poile.
I remember when Ken Holland supposedly knew all about what Suter was up to and was definitely going to get him as a Lidstrom replacement.

Too bad he's not a good GM, right?

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02-05-2014, 01:32 PM
  #42
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Does the move for Schneider count? Everyone knew that was a bigtime trade.

But whatever, if you don't like Poile, great, but I know it could be a lot worse.
The "we're better than bottom dwellers" again. Actually, we are close to bottom dwellers right now. Finisehd 27th last year. We are currently 24th .

As for the Lamoriello, time will tell on Scheider trade. It looks good, but the results are in the Ws. Right now, they are tied with us for 24th.

He's definitely had a few bad years as a GM recently. But he has as many Cups wins as Poile does 1st rd victories in the past 20 years. He's had success building elite teams. He's no Ken Holland who sustains elite teams, but he's certainly had a better career than Poile.

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02-05-2014, 01:37 PM
  #43
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I remember when Ken Holland supposedly knew all about what Suter was up to and was definitely going to get him as a Lidstrom replacement.
This where this board's folklore is generated. Please tell me where Ken Holland "knew all about what Suter was up to and was definitely going to get him".

Yes he wanted Suter, they took a big shot at it, but they could not even speak to him until July 1. He signed July 4. Holland had 3 days to make his pitch. Wheres Poile has known Suter since he 18, had exlsuvie negotiating rights to extend him for over a year and he still couldn't get a pulse of what Suter wanted.

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02-05-2014, 01:54 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
This where this board's folklore is generated. Please tell me where Ken Holland "knew all about what Suter was up to and was definitely going to get him".

Yes he wanted Suter, they took a big shot at it, but they could not even speak to him until July 1. He signed July 4. Holland had 3 days to make his pitch. Wheres Poile has known Suter since he 18, had exlsuvie negotiating rights to extend him for over a year and he still couldn't get a pulse of what Suter wanted.
What Suter wanted was to get the hell out of Nashville, out of Weber's shadow, and into a hockey market. Especially being from a well-known hockey family. There's a reason he never addressed the media about his future. I don't think there's any disputing that at this point. He said he wanted us to add pieces to "become a contender". We got Gaustad, Gill, and AK. Scoff at it all now if anyone wants but it was widely viewed at the time that we were the winners of the trade deadline. We got Radulov back, again, viewed as such a huge boost that people thought it was unfair. Obviously we came up short, things happened, and Mike Smith single-handedly led Phoenix through their first two rounds but the fact is we did all we could to cater to what he said he wanted. He didn't ever seriously consider coming back here, especially when Minnesota came calling because he's obsessed with his stupid farm in Wisconsin and the upper midwest. Along with the fact that his BFF Parise was going to Minny with him. Plus his wife is from Minnesota and blah blah, etc. Anyone that thinks Poile had more to do with Suter leaving than Ryan's own wants is extremely naive.

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02-05-2014, 01:55 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
This where this board's folklore is generated. Please tell me where Ken Holland "knew all about what Suter was up to and was definitely going to get him".

Yes he wanted Suter, they took a big shot at it, but they could not even speak to him until July 1. He signed July 4. Holland had 3 days to make his pitch. Wheres Poile has known Suter since he 18, had exlsuvie negotiating rights to extend him for over a year and he still couldn't get a pulse of what Suter wanted.
This is getting off-topic, but even if Poile did have an understanding of what Suter wanted to do, how many playoff teams go off and trade elite players before a playoff run?

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02-05-2014, 02:02 PM
  #46
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This is getting off-topic, but even if Poile did have an understanding of what Suter wanted to do, how many playoff teams go off and trade elite players before a playoff run?
Great GMs with a grasp on the player's mood, apparently.

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02-05-2014, 02:07 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
What Suter wanted was to get the hell out of Nashville, out of Weber's shadow, and into a hockey market. Especially being from a well-known hockey family. There's a reason he never addressed the media about his future. I don't think there's any disputing that at this point. He said he wanted us to add pieces to "become a contender". We got Gaustad, Gill, and AK. Scoff at it all now if anyone wants but it was widely viewed at the time that we were the winners of the trade deadline. We got Radulov back, again, viewed as such a huge boost that people thought it was unfair. Obviously we came up short, things happened, and Mike Smith single-handedly led Phoenix through their first two rounds but the fact is we did all we could to cater to what he said he wanted. He didn't ever seriously consider coming back here, especially when Minnesota came calling because he's obsessed with his stupid farm in Wisconsin and the upper midwest. Along with the fact that his BFF Parise was going to Minny with him. Plus his wife is from Minnesota and blah blah, etc. Anyone that thinks Poile had more to do with Suter leaving than Ryan's own wants is extremely naive.
It's not about Suter leaving because Poile. It's about getting a pulse of Suter. I said at the time(as well as others), that Suter should have been shipped the moment he would not sign an extension the summer before he was UFA.

The question about other playoff teams shipping high-value soon to be UFAs... Jordan Staal would be the most recent example. The moment Staal wouldn't sign an extension, Shero put him on the market to maintain the long-term viability of the Penguins.

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02-05-2014, 02:38 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
This is getting off-topic, but even if Poile did have an understanding of what Suter wanted to do, how many playoff teams go off and trade elite players before a playoff run?
I seem to recall that being a significant debate topic at the time...

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02-05-2014, 02:45 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
It's not about Suter leaving because Poile. It's about getting a pulse of Suter. I said at the time(as well as others), that Suter should have been shipped the moment he would not sign an extension the summer before he was UFA.

The question about other playoff teams shipping high-value soon to be UFAs... Jordan Staal would be the most recent example. The moment Staal wouldn't sign an extension, Shero put him on the market to maintain the long-term viability of the Penguins.
Poile simply gambled and lost. If we would have played in or won the Stanley Cup or re-signed Suter we wouldn't be talking about it. Poile took the man at his word and got boned along with all of the Predators fan base. This is why we boo Suter every time he touches the puck and people don't boo every time Poile is seen around the stadium.

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02-05-2014, 03:19 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
It's not about Suter leaving because Poile. It's about getting a pulse of Suter. I said at the time(as well as others), that Suter should have been shipped the moment he would not sign an extension the summer before he was UFA.

The question about other playoff teams shipping high-value soon to be UFAs... Jordan Staal would be the most recent example. The moment Staal wouldn't sign an extension, Shero put him on the market to maintain the long-term viability of the Penguins.
Staal was a 3rd liner in Pittsburgh. With dumping him, they didn't lose a beat. Suter was arguably our best dman and required a rebuild when he left. Apples and oranges. Trading Suter tells the team and fanbase that they are giving up on the year. Pittsburgh trading Staal is dumping redundant pieces.

Should San Jose have traded Thornton and Marleau last summer when they didn't sign an extension? What about Perry and Getzlaf? Phaneuf, Lundqvist, Kessel?

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