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Old
02-07-2007, 12:34 AM
  #1
McThome
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You get what you pay for

So there is no question that the Oil have a bottom four defensive unit in the league right? Well, all I will say is that we're getting what we're paying for. We have the fourth cheapest blue line in the league ahead of only Washington, The Island, and San Jose. I think we're close to on par with those defenses. Now high expenditures on defense doesn't ensure success either (see: Toronto Maple Laughs). However, I think we have the potential to have a very good defense for the ball park mean defense payroll of 11-12 million dollars.

Right now we have the following defensive commitments:
Staios - $2.9 million
Bergeron - $1.045 million
Smid - $.721 million
Smith - $1.976
total - $6.642

Now I'm going to slot Matt Greene in for a million dollars (he may/should get less if its a one year deal).

So now we're at $7.642 with one opening. I think that if we can get anything of value for Jason Smith, we should take it and run (its clear he's on the down turn of his career). So let's say Lowe decides to spend about or just above typical in the league on his defense next year. If we're free of Smith, we should have roughly 6.5 million to spend. Who do we target? I don't think we'll accomplish much in free agency. So I am thinking we need to look at high quality restricted free agents that might be available.

So with that in mind, who should we target?

The oft discussed Paul Martin springs to mind. The thought of Pitkanen is to great to hope for (I'm a fan). Although Barret Jackman isn't the puck mover we want, he'd be a great pick up.

I honestly think that if we went after Jackman we could land him. St. Louis is thin up front with any kind of quality youth who've played in the NHL. Stempniak and McClement are it. If we could pick up Jackman then target a cheaper puck moving defenseman FA, then I think our blue line would be pretty damn solid:

Jackman-UFA d'man
Staios-Smid
Greene-Bergeron

That raises the whole what UFA puck moving d'man, but what does everybody think about Jackman?

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02-07-2007, 12:36 AM
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Narnia
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No UFA wants to play in Edmonton. We saw that in the off-season. The Oil wanted to sign Chara and were willing to pay $7M but he signed in Boston. Spacek signed for about the same in Buffalo. It's sad when the Oil can't even lure UFAs by offering about the same or more. Blame Pronger.

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Old
02-07-2007, 12:39 AM
  #3
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I actually had a bigger post a while back discussing the extent to which ol' gap tooth hurt this franchise. However, Chara did get more money from Boston and Spacek went to what was clearly going to be, and has been, a great team in Buffalo (plus the easier travel schedule).

But the notion that we'll never be able to get a UFA to sign here is rediculous. We might struggle to get a Niedermayer or Forsberg to sign here, but we definately will be able to attract some.

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02-07-2007, 12:41 AM
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Oh, and forgot to mention, in a perfect world we could sign Rafalski as the UFA d'man.

Jackman-Rafalski
Staios-Smid
Greene-Bergeron

That is a good blueline.

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02-07-2007, 12:46 AM
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No Jackman Thome. There's a reason we could get him...he's not that good.

We need puck-movers, as you said. He is NOT one.

I wish we were a more veteran team...Tom Gilbert's puck moving skill would be great to have in the lower slots in the order. Thing is, if we have Smid, Greene, and Bergeron taking up the bottom three...we need a really impressive and minute-eating top three...not an easy feat. I don't think Jackman-Rafalski-Staios comes close enough to what we need.

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02-07-2007, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smyth2Hemsky View Post
No UFA wants to play in Edmonton. We saw that in the off-season. The Oil wanted to sign Chara and were willing to pay $7M but he signed in Boston. Spacek signed for about the same in Buffalo. It's said when the Oil can't even lure UFAs by offering about the same or more. Blame Pronger.
By Lowe's own admission, they need to work on their recruiting skills. With time, I think we will see an improvement in this area. I think the biggest factor for UFA's not wanting to come to Edmonton is location. The Oilers need to get creative and try and sell the players on all of the positives there are to being an "Oiler". Pronger is not to blame, as this has been an issue long before he arrived.

FYI...I don't think your rhetoric is convincing anyone.

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02-07-2007, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 View Post
No Jackman Thome. There's a reason we could get him...he's not that good.

We need puck-movers, as you said. He is NOT one.

I wish we were a more veteran team...Tom Gilbert's puck moving skill would be great to have in the lower slots in the order. Thing is, if we have Smid, Greene, and Bergeron taking up the bottom three...we need a really impressive and minute-eating top three...not an easy feat. I don't think Jackman-Rafalski-Staios comes close enough to what we need.

wow who are you kidding, Jackman is not that good give your head a shake. He shut down Todd Bertuzzi in the playoffs in his rookie year, a calder trophy winner, this year he is second in plus minus of a bad St Louis team and last year (on an even worse team) he was a minus 6 which was best among d men as well as one of the best among regular players. But sorry I forgot that he is not that good.

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02-07-2007, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 View Post
No Jackman Thome. There's a reason we could get him...he's not that good.

We need puck-movers, as you said. He is NOT one.

I wish we were a more veteran team...Tom Gilbert's puck moving skill would be great to have in the lower slots in the order. Thing is, if we have Smid, Greene, and Bergeron taking up the bottom three...we need a really impressive and minute-eating top three...not an easy feat. I don't think Jackman-Rafalski-Staios comes close enough to what we need.
Have you seen our goals against average? Jackman would help. I know he's not the world beater people made him out to be in his rookie year, but he is a good top four defenseman and would be perfect to compliment a player like Rafalski or Timonen. The Blues make sense as partners and Jackman fiscally would make sense as he'd leave room to actually make a serious bid for a Rafalski or Schnieder, etc.

Greene is young and I'm confident he'll be better next year then he is this year. Bergeron is definately a great BOTTOM pairing defenseman as well.

As for Smid, I guess I have more faith in him turning into a top four D'man (i think he'll be a full fledged top four guy for us next year).

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02-07-2007, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8haluschak View Post
wow who are you kidding, Jackman is not that good give your head a shake. He shut down Todd Bertuzzi in the playoffs in his rookie year, a calder trophy winner, this year he is second in plus minus of a bad St Louis team and last year (on an even worse team) he was a minus 6 which was best among d men as well as one of the best among regular players. But sorry I forgot that he is not that good.
You'll have to excuse him. This board very much so has a mob mentality. It's been 'decided' that we need a 7 million dollar super star on our blue line because nobody else would make enough of a difference. If you ask me, Smid and Greene will both take steps forward next year. Bergeron simply needs to be used properly.

A top pairing of Jackman and any one of Rafalski, Timonen, Schneider, etc would be great. I truly think Smid becomes a legit top four d'man who pots 30+ points next year and goes with Staios to form an above average second pairing. And like I said, another year for Greene and proper use of Bergeron and I think we have a good blueline.

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02-07-2007, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26 View Post
You'll have to excuse him. This board very much so has a mob mentality. It's been 'decided' that we need a 7 million dollar super star on our blue line because nobody else would make enough of a difference. If you ask me, Smid and Greene will both take steps forward next year. Bergeron simply needs to be used properly.
I want 3 guys at around 3+ a little rather than 1 at 7. We could work with that. That is the balanced D that was mentioned before the season.

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Old
02-07-2007, 01:18 AM
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McThome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 View Post
I want 3 guys at around 3+ a little rather than 1 at 7. We could work with that. That is the balanced D that was mentioned before the season.
If you think you're getting a Dman much better then Jackman for 3 million (especially in free agency) you're delusional.

I mean, you saying that is like me saying, I want six forwards who make 2.5 million and score 30 goals each. Sure its a nice thought, but c'mon.

Just out of curiousity though, what three guys at around 3+ a little would you go after?

edit:

I also apologize for including you with much of the rabble on this board. You're an intelligent and free thinking poster worth reading. Sadly, i find this board isn't what it was even 3 years ago.

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02-07-2007, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26 View Post
If you think you're getting a Dman much better then Jackman for 3 million (especially in free agency) you're delusional.

I mean, you saying that is like me saying, I want six forwards who make 2.5 million and score 30 goals each. Sure its a nice thought, but c'mon.

Just out of curiousity though, what three guys at around 3+ a little would you go after?

edit:

I also apologize for including you with much of the rabble on this board. You're an intelligent and free thinking poster worth reading. Sadly, i find this board isn't what it was even 3 years ago.
Thanks for the acknowledgment of course Thome, you're missed here; though possibly needed moreso on the politics board constantly defending all us conservatives out there.

I'll have to go peruse the list of available guys...I just don't think Jackman fits this team at all with Greene already here, and he's not one of my favorites for sure when it comes to possibly available guys and how much they can really contribute here.

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02-07-2007, 01:35 AM
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Barrett Jackman can play on my team anytime. He's had some unfortunate injuries but this guy is a gamer. Tough, physical, and a very good team guy. Solid character as he was a junior captain at 17 (with the Regina Pats).

Personally, I wouldn't move Jason Smith. Placed back in the #1 slot he's been abit erratic but he's battled to get his +/- respectable. He's really a 2/3 d-man carrying the shutdown role with substandard partner.

I'd love to see the Oil target Pitkannen. Pay the price with one of Torres, Lupul; their pick of the farm boys (Schremp, Pouliot, anyone not named Cogliano); and high draft pick.

Drop Jackman into the 2 spot with Smith. Pair Pitkannen with Staios; work Hedja and Greene; and roll Smid into the lineup spelling Hedja.

Easy for me to type.

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02-07-2007, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines View Post
Barrett Jackman can play on my team anytime. He's had some unfortunate injuries but this guy is a gamer. Tough, physical, and a very good team guy. Solid character as he was a junior captain at 17 (with the Regina Pats).

Personally, I wouldn't move Jason Smith. Placed back in the #1 slot he's been abit erratic but he's battled to get his +/- respectable. He's really a 2/3 d-man carrying the shutdown role with substandard partner.

I'd love to see the Oil target Pitkannen. Pay the price with one of Torres, Lupul; their pick of the farm boys (Schremp, Pouliot, anyone not named Cogliano); and high draft pick.

Drop Jackman into the 2 spot with Smith. Pair Pitkannen with Staios; work Hedja and Greene; and roll Smid into the lineup spelling Hedja.

Easy for me to type.

Wow, no faith in Smid? and what about Staios??

Sadly if we attempted and succeeded in what you're saying, we'd have a problem upfront instead of on the back end; though forwards are admittedly easier to fix then bluelines.

Don't get me wrong, if we could get Pitkanen without paying through the ass, I'd definately go with a blueline of:

Pitkanen-Staios
Smith-Smid
Greene-Bergeron

However, I don't think Philly is stupid enough to move him without getting a return like Torres + Lupul + first round pick etc. I think we could get Jackman for Torres straight up (oh, all the talk of trading Torres is strictly dependant upon resigning Smyth). Also, a person could probably lock Jackman up for 3-4 years with a salary somewhere between Staios and Willie "I'm overpaid" Mitchell.

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02-07-2007, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 View Post
Thanks for the acknowledgment of course Thome, you're missed here; though possibly needed moreso on the politics board constantly defending all us conservatives out there.
I would say something nice back, but before you know it we'd be accused of a circle jerk...

Quote:
I'll have to go peruse the list of available guys...I just don't think Jackman fits this team at all with Greene already here, and he's not one of my favorites for sure when it comes to possibly available guys and how much they can really contribute here.
I'm sure you'll come up with some interesting ideas (so much for not starting a circle jerk) but I personally have looked and nothing popped out at me, so I think you've got a fair task a head of you.

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02-07-2007, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Lowball View Post
By Lowe's own admission, they need to work on their recruiting skills. With time, I think we will see an improvement in this area. I think the biggest factor for UFA's not wanting to come to Edmonton is location. The Oilers need to get creative and try and sell the players on all of the positives there are to being an "Oiler". Pronger is not to blame, as this has been an issue long before he arrived.

FYI...I don't think your rhetoric is convincing anyone.
I completely agree and Lowe's comments haven't been circulated enough on this board. Do you remember where you read/heard them? I was looking for them the other day.

Anyways Lowe and Howson seem to sit in their office and work on these deals, while our competitors are visiting the UFA's in person.

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02-07-2007, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by thome_26 View Post
Wow, no faith in Smid? and what about Staios??

Sadly if we attempted and succeeded in what you're saying, we'd have a problem upfront instead of on the back end; though forwards are admittedly easier to fix then bluelines.

Don't get me wrong, if we could get Pitkanen without paying through the ass, I'd definately go with a blueline of:

Pitkanen-Staios
Smith-Smid
Greene-Bergeron

However, I don't think Philly is stupid enough to move him without getting a return like Torres + Lupul + first round pick etc. I think we could get Jackman for Torres straight up (oh, all the talk of trading Torres is strictly dependant upon resigning Smyth). Also, a person could probably lock Jackman up for 3-4 years with a salary somewhere between Staios and Willie "I'm overpaid" Mitchell.
Actually I have alot of faith in Smid. He has done an exceptional job on the fly as a 20 year old. For a stretch drive playoff run though, I'd reduce his minutes and go with the veteran Hedja. But I wouldn't hesitate to drop in Smid if Hedja faltered.

Pitkanen is going nowhere unless Philly is tempted by an overpayment. He is a cornerstone player who you build around. I wouldn't put Torres or Lupul in play for really anyone but this type of player. All tool d-man, RFA, and at a real good age to blend in with this team's younger core players. Staios is on my second pairing.

Smith Jackman (shut down, pk, zero pp time)
Staios Pitkanen (P-man becomes pp distributor)
Greene Hedja/Smid

Bergie, Tjards spun off in trade... in theory.

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