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Official GDT February 6: NY Rangers at New Jersey Devils, 7:30p MSG

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Old
02-07-2007, 10:12 AM
  #751
chosen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by towely View Post
its renneys fault blah blah blah its the refs blah blah blah its jagr blah blah blah its the zamboni driver blah blah blah.
how about this for a change the rangers played a decent game and came up a little short against one of the best teams in hockey as well as one of the best teams for the last dozen years its that simple.
Are you saying that this Devils team is one of the best teams of the last dozen years? I'm not sure that they are a top 5 team this year.

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02-07-2007, 10:22 AM
  #752
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Are you saying that this Devils team is one of the best teams of the last dozen years? I'm not sure that they are a top 5 team this year.
that is exactly what i am saying and as much as i do not like the team how can you argue that i mean they played in five cups and won three and also had numerous appearences in the conference finals.
and as far as top five this year, they currently are tied with the fourth best record in the league.
so unless you can enlighten me to anything that changes what i just said feel free to tell me and if not go get a paper to refresh your fading memory.

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02-07-2007, 10:34 AM
  #753
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
I'm not upset with Jags not going in the SO. Bottom line, he's just not that good in them. I was surprised to see Cullen because I figured Straka would take it, but even so I don't think it's outrageous to try him over Jaro.

Frankly, Straka/Prucha > Jagr in a shootout.
How can such a money player be not so money in the shootout. It is not logical. What league leader has ever not been his teams first choices in these instances? Too much pressure?

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02-07-2007, 10:34 AM
  #754
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Originally Posted by towely View Post
that is exactly what i am saying and as much as i do not like the team how can you argue that i mean they played in five cups and won three and also had numerous appearences in the conference finals.
and as far as top five this year, they currently are tied with the fourth best record in the league.
so unless you can enlighten me to anything that changes what i just said feel free to tell me and if not go get a paper to refresh your fading memory.

Although I often try and convince myself that we would have destroyed the canucks in '94...we've only actually played in four finals. Please get your facts straight and stop making a fool of yourself.

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02-07-2007, 10:36 AM
  #755
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
Wow, what an elbow by Lukowhich.

What the ****!? HOW is that not called?!
That was no elbow Jon, that was a clean hit as they come, he hit him with his shoulder, I know because I watched it about a dozen times in slo-mo and it was shoulder, not elbow.

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02-07-2007, 10:39 AM
  #756
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Originally Posted by Lou is God View Post
That was no elbow Jon, that was a clean hit as they come, he hit him with his shoulder, I know because I watched it about a dozen times in slo-mo and it was shoulder, not elbow.
You mean he didn't follow through with his elbow? First contact seemed to be shoulder, but he sure as hell finished him off with an uppercut of his elbow.

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02-07-2007, 10:46 AM
  #757
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Originally Posted by Il Ragazzone View Post
You mean he didn't follow through with his elbow? First contact seemed to be shoulder, but he sure as hell finished him off with an uppercut of his elbow.
He followed through, but it was his shoulder that did the damage, watch it again.

Point being is when Kasper delivered a hit to Marshall last year at the Garden Jon and a lot of folks defended the hit saying along the lines of the same thing, that he hit with his shoulder and only followed through with the elbow, I just don't understand why they would have a big problem with Lukowich's hit when they saw nothing wrong with Kasper's.

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02-07-2007, 10:52 AM
  #758
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Originally Posted by towely View Post
that is exactly what i am saying and as much as i do not like the team how can you argue that i mean they played in five cups and won three and also had numerous appearences in the conference finals.
and as far as top five this year, they currently are tied with the fourth best record in the league.
so unless you can enlighten me to anything that changes what i just said feel free to tell me and if not go get a paper to refresh your fading memory.
I didn't ask about history or any sort of retrospective. I am talking solely about this year's squad. Take note that Stevens, Niedermayer and a few others aren't here. Stop watching videotape and turn on the television for live action.

If you believe the current Devils team is one of the best in recent memory you have not the slightest idea of what you are talking about and know zero about hockey. Just to clarify due to your obvious lack of smarts, nothing I wrote was sarcastic.

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02-07-2007, 10:53 AM
  #759
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Originally Posted by Lou is God View Post
He followed through, but it was his shoulder that did the damage, watch it again.

Point being is when Kasper delivered a hit to Marshall last year at the Garden Jon and a lot of folks defended the hit saying along the lines of the same thing, that he hit with his shoulder and only followed through with the elbow, I just don't understand why they would have a big problem with Lukowich's hit when they saw nothing wrong with Kasper's.
So because of what they said last year, it automatically makes it a clean hit, shoulder to head, to you, a Devil's fan? And your only justification of it is saying you watched it 12 times, and for me to go "watch it again." I watched it enough to know he followed through with his elbow.

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02-07-2007, 10:53 AM
  #760
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Originally Posted by Il Ragazzone View Post
You mean he didn't follow through with his elbow? First contact seemed to be shoulder, but he sure as hell finished him off with an uppercut of his elbow.
Nah, when I saw it live I was screaming for an elbowing penalty, because that's what it looked like at regular speed. An elbowing penalty is when you hit someone with your elbow. Lukowich hit him with his shoulder,and it's a natural reaction to push out with your arm (which includes your elbow) after the hit. The elbow isn't what hurt Prucha, the shoulder was.

Part of Prucha's problem is that he's so short, and when he's bending over looking at the puck his head comes square in line with a lot of d-men's shoulders.

The hit reminded me of the James Patrick hit on Fat Lafontaine in game one of the 1990 playoffs (the one that precipated Vukota and Baumgartner starting that brawl after the game was over). Fatso had his head down and Patrick hit him square in the head with his shoulder...and then followed through with his arm. It was probably the only good hit James Patrick threw in his life, and he almost killed the guy. I can't remember any Ranger fan at the time thinking it was an elbow.

Truth be told Aaron Ward's hit of the Devil player was more worthy of a penalty than the Lukowich hit. Ward's arms came up high and hit the Devil player in the head. I though it was a great hit, though, even if a penalty would have been called.

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02-07-2007, 10:56 AM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Il Ragazzone View Post
So because of what they said last year, it automatically makes it a clean hit, shoulder to head, to you, a Devil's fan? And your only justification of it is saying you watched it 12 times, and for me to go "watch it again." I watched it enough to know he followed through with his elbow.
What dave said.

And I never said it makes it a clean hit because of what I saw last year - it's a clean hit on it's own merits - but that I find it funny that Kaspers hit, which was a lot more borderline than Lukowich's, was viewed as clean but yet last night hit is dirty.

In fairness to Jon just like dave he might have made that comment in the heat of the moment and could look at it differently today.

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02-07-2007, 10:58 AM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Lou is God View Post
What dave said.
does not make me change my mind. i'm not saying there should have been a penalty, as ward's hit was definately more worthy. but i am saying that Lukowich could have left it at the initial blow and didn't have to add what he did.

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02-07-2007, 11:04 AM
  #763
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Originally Posted by Il Ragazzone View Post
does not make me change my mind. i'm not saying there should have been a penalty, as ward's hit was definately more worthy. but i am saying that Lukowich could have left it at the initial blow and didn't have to add what he did.
There is where we disagree, he never connected with this elbow, he just followed through - which is legal - giving the illusion that he nailed him with the elbow.

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02-07-2007, 11:29 AM
  #764
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As much as I wanted to put down my beer, dive off the recliner and beat Lukowich with my remote, it was a clean hit.

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02-07-2007, 11:45 AM
  #765
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I know last nights game has been hammered into the ground, and I'm a little lazy to try and refer back to previous posts about the teams play... I was in and out briefly last night and here's what I gathered:

1. Lundqvist seemed solid, made some huge saves and I think one in overtime? I also gather that he was still handling the puck and giving people heart attacks... when is he going to learn?

2. Jagr played like his old self somewhat? I was happy to see he finally got on the board again. How good did he look overall?

3. I want to congratulate Sean Avery on his first point, I saw the highlight of the goal and it was a nice little set up all around. Rachunek BLASTED that shot by Brodeur, where the hell has that been from our D men?

4. Still not getting some calls from refs? I noticed that some people were real upset with a non call at regulation, what exactly happened? All I know it was a hit on Prucha... that kid is a beast and I love that he bounces back up like nothign happened.


In general, who played well and who didnt? How were some of the young guys doing? What common things did we do wrong, and what little things did we do right?

I have a feeling we blew this game... it's pretty much the story of our season, either blowing 3rd period leads or just losing games that we should have most likely won..

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02-07-2007, 11:50 AM
  #766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou is God View Post
There is where we disagree, he never connected with this elbow, he just followed through - which is legal - giving the illusion that he nailed him with the elbow.
Initially, it did look like an elbow, but it wasn't. I even watched the Rangers in 60, and both Joe and Al agreed that it was not an elbow. And I still believe if Ward's big hit doesn't occur on Brylin, Luc let's up on Prucha, but thatís hockey. And as for Pruc, heís a real gutsy kid but has to remember to keep his head up.

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02-07-2007, 12:05 PM
  #767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou is God View Post
He followed through, but it was his shoulder that did the damage, watch it again.

Point being is when Kasper delivered a hit to Marshall last year at the Garden Jon and a lot of folks defended the hit saying along the lines of the same thing, that he hit with his shoulder and only followed through with the elbow, I just don't understand why they would have a big problem with Lukowich's hit when they saw nothing wrong with Kasper's.
I see it the same way. When I first saw the Lukowich hit on Rangers in 60, I as like, "How did they not call that elbow?!" But then I saw the slow motion replays and I saw that the initial contact was with the shoulder and his elbow coming up was just the natural continuation of the checking movement. I thought the same exact thing about the Kaspar hit on Marshall last year.

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02-07-2007, 12:14 PM
  #768
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Originally Posted by Il Ragazzone View Post
How can such a money player be not so money in the shootout. It is not logical. What league leader has ever not been his teams first choices in these instances? Too much pressure?
Ask him. All I know is that Jagr is 2-11 in the shootout, including 0-3 this year. The stats don't lie.

It's probably because Jagr's biggest strength is as a puck-handler and playmaker. His shooting really is his secondary weapon. And he doesn't have the quickness of smaller guys like Gionta, Jokinen, Kozlov, etc. that make them so effective.

Shootouts are entirely different from regular play on the ice, which is why so many purists are against having them as a way to break ties. Look at Crosby: 2-13 in his career, including 0-7 this season.

It is what it is.

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02-07-2007, 12:22 PM
  #769
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While I didn't like the hit on Prucha, it was all shoulder and clean.

Regardless of that, no one responded in any way to that hit and that's where I find fault with this group (they are not a team. Teammates react to that and Lukowich should have been confronted) Not only didn't someone drop the gloves with Brad, but not one player on the ice said boo to the guy.

Wimps, this is a crew of wimps.

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02-07-2007, 12:23 PM
  #770
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
While I didn't like the hit on Prucha, it was all shoulder and clean.

Regardless of that, no one responded in any way to that hit and that's where I find fault with this group (they are not a team. Teammates react to that and Lukowich should have been confronted) Not only didn't someone drop the gloves with Brad, but not one player on the ice said boo to the guy.

Wimps, this is a crew of wimps.
It was crunch time, you can't go take a penalty trying to stick up for a teammate at that point in the game. Had it happened earlier, I'm sure someone (Avery???) would have taken it up with Lukowich.

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02-07-2007, 01:03 PM
  #771
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Originally Posted by Marty's Better View Post
Although I often try and convince myself that we would have destroyed the canucks in '94...we've only actually played in four finals. Please get your facts straight and stop making a fool of yourself.
excuse me for having a little foggy memory about a team i do not like but how am i making a fool of myself? because i am throwing a compliment at your team.
and excuse me for adding the extra cup appearence i certainly dont want your team to get anymore credit then they deserve but for some reason i got the famous contraversial brett hull in the crease goal mixed up with the devils.
but either way go back to your board and troll around there instead of coming here calling people that pay a compliment to your team a fool.

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02-07-2007, 01:42 PM
  #772
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
While I didn't like the hit on Prucha, it was all shoulder and clean.

Regardless of that, no one responded in any way to that hit and that's where I find fault with this group (they are not a team. Teammates react to that and Lukowich should have been confronted) Not only didn't someone drop the gloves with Brad, but not one player on the ice said boo to the guy.

Wimps, this is a crew of wimps.
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
It was crunch time, you can't go take a penalty trying to stick up for a teammate at that point in the game. Had it happened earlier, I'm sure someone (Avery???) would have taken it up with Lukowich.
Exactly, with the Rangers fighting for their playoff lives, the last thing they needed to do was take a penalty with less than a minute to go in regulation of a tie game.

Besides, I think that most Ranger players realized that the hit Luko put on Prucha was in retaliation for the hit that Ward gave Brylin. I'm reading through "The Code" right now, and this is one of the things mentioned in the book. When a smaller or skilled player on a team gets decked like Brylin did, you have to know that the Devils were going to try to get one of the Rangers back in the same fashion (no need to drop the gloves over it, since both were legal hits).

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02-07-2007, 01:43 PM
  #773
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I didn't ask about history or any sort of retrospective. I am talking solely about this year's squad. Take note that Stevens, Niedermayer and a few others aren't here. Stop watching videotape and turn on the television for live action.

If you believe the current Devils team is one of the best in recent memory you have not the slightest idea of what you are talking about and know zero about hockey. Just to clarify due to your obvious lack of smarts, nothing I wrote was sarcastic.
i never said this years devils team is the best devil team ever.
and i certainly did not expect anyone to be suprised about the devils team history that i mentioned because as a ranger fan its all too painfully clear.
and my mentioning of the teams past season was just to point out that they not only are a top 5 team now they have been for the last dozen or more years and their are not many teams that have been as consistent over that time period.
but i did answer your question about this years squad as far as how they rank here and now in the league this year which is tied for 4th in the league. so in case you have troubles with numbers 4 is less than 5 which i beleive answers your question of the devils being a top 5 team now this year.
so please explain to me how the answers i gave you to them being a top five team now based on their record and the current official standings of the nhl suggests that i am not up to speed and living in the past off video tape when the answer i gave you is not my creation its fact. so stop trying to make me look like the fool when you were the one asking a question that could have been simply answered by opening up the morning paper.
and just to clarify your own inability to read and lack of smarts i never implied you were being sarcastic.

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02-07-2007, 02:14 PM
  #774
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I think the word "shoulder" is often misunderstood and/or misused. People forget that it can mean many things and thus avoid defining precisely what they mean. Lou and co. could do themselves a favour be detailing what it is they mean by shoulder and thus end the controversy.

Shoulder, in this case, was the bicep/tricep area of Lukowich's arm just above the elbow and just below the actually shoulder muscle. The use of the word shoulder should not be confused with the top of the shoulder, the area covered by the shoulder pad, and most commonly thought of as "the shoulder."

It was a clean hit as his elbow was tucked, and the follow through (the elbowing motion that most are complaining about) came after contact as a mere extension of the act of moving your arm outward.

I can think of many similar cases, obviously Stevens on Lindros comes to mind as it had a very similar contact point (isolate that from the open ice context, and you'll follow what I mean).

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02-07-2007, 02:58 PM
  #775
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Lukowich led with his shoulder and aimed at his head.

Again, call it clean, cause it was, but it still doesn't mean it was right.
These kind of hits have no place in hockey, its headhunting and its ********.

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